Pie Lady wrote:Completely off topic, but if schmaltz is chicken fat, how did we get the term schmaltzy to mean overly sentimental?

I've always understood it as a "lay it on thick" analog, so it's not about the oil or grease, just that when it's slathered on it looks excessive (and this is from someone whose father's favorite breakfast was rye toast with a thick layer of schmaltz).

Our Thanksgiving:

Herb-roasted turkey
Apple-sausage dressing
Carmelized onion/apple cider gravy
Mashed potatoes
Roasted brussel sprouts with pancetta and balsamic
Butternut squash puree with orange & ginger
Mashed rutabega, possibly with crispy shallots
Cranberry sauce(s) TBD
Desserts TBD

The challenge I have is that I have two gluten-free guests. One of those is developing lactose-intolerance. It's been helpful to get tips in this and other threads to help accommodate the dietary restrictions. My biggest problem is that I intended to use copius amounts of butter. I will still use butter, but will try to find other alternatives without sacrificing flavor. I've never worked with ghee -- would that be a good substitute for the herbed-butter rub on the turkey?

Here is my tentative menu:

First course: squash and lentil salad with goat cheese over arugula

Turkey with mustard sage gravy
Vegetarian mushroom thyme gravy (yes, several of our guests are vegetarian so i attempt to make everything but the turkey vegetarian friendly)
Fig, almond and chestnut stuffing with fennel
yukon gold and sweet potato gratin
herbed haricot verts
sauteed brussels sprouts with breadcrumbs
cranberry sauces (one raw and one cooked but have not decided on either)

Dessert: pumpkin ice cream and no clue what else

For the lactose-intolerant guest:

mash the potatoes with stock (if they are not also vegetarian )
or
you can buy soy milk or lactose-free milk and mash the potatoes with that and with clarified butter or olive oil
(when you clarify the butter you remove the milk solids)

Has anyone tried mashing sweet potatoes with nog? Silk makes a form of this too.

Wow, thanks to all, so many great ideas. I'm leaning towards the stock, roasted garlic, olive oil route for the no-dairy guest, especially since I'm going to make a good turkey stock this weekend for my gravy. Not too complicated this year--no vegetarians or gluten-free folks . Like many, my Thanksgiving menu doesn't alter too much year to year. Here's my current plan:

Turkey roasted with bacon, gravy
Wild rice/mushroom stuffing
Puréed rutabagas topped with crispy shallots
Maple-Roasted Brussels Sprouts with toasted hazelnuts
Mashed potatoes (some no-dairy)
Sweet potatoes (my sister-in-law is bringing)
Rolls (SIL bringing these too)
Homemade whole berry cranberry sauce
Homemade cranberry-orange relish
Desserts baked by my cousin: Door County cherry pie and pumpkin bars

The GP wrote: I will still use butter, but will try to find other alternatives without sacrificing flavor. I've never worked with ghee -- would that be a good substitute for the herbed-butter rub on the turkey?

Check with your guests to make sure clarified butter or ghee will work - lactose intolerance comes in all kinds of degrees, some people are hypersensitive, some not so much at all. (Sparky can't tolerate liquid milk, recently even if it's lactose-reduced, but has no trouble with any other dairy; his uncle can't even do ice cream or cheese.)

Otherwise, if you aren't feeding anyone kosher, I'd sub bacon grease in your turkey rub...I might even sub bacon grease for butter on a turkey anyway, it has better flavor...(I suppose schmaltz/duck/goosefat would be an excellent option as well)

I'm wondering if anyone saw the Cook's Illustrated from last weekend (I think) with their "new" version of Thanksgiving turkey parts. They take a non-enhanced (no brine) bird and cut it up into a breast, two legs and two thighs. They then roast it, skin side up on the dark meat and skin side down on the white, in a low oven - 285 (IIRC) for about an hour, then flip the breast over (skin side up) and roast for another hour. After that, it's basically done (this is purely the cliff notes version, not the recipe) and they let it rest for up to an hour and a half before setting the oven to 500 and baking for a last 15 minutes to darken and crisp the skin. The result is supposed to be a juicy, well cooked bird with minimal effort.

I may try it only because the turkey can rest for about an hour or so before being finished. With a normal sized oven, finding room to bake the side items, timing, etc is always an issue. If I take the bird out for an hour, I can bake everything else I need while the bird rests.

Any thoughts/comments on this approach? Thanks much.

tyrus wrote:I'm wondering if anyone saw the Cook's Illustrated from last weekend (I think) with their "new" version of Thanksgiving turkey parts. They take a non-enhanced (no brine) bird and cut it up into a breast, two legs and two thighs.

I have not tried this particular method as to temp and timing, but I can vouch that cutting up the turkey and cooking it in parts works great, and gives you the advantage that you can take the breast out if it gets done before the legs.

The method I liked is to cook the parts on a rack over a pan of stuffing. (Doesn't matter for the turkey itself, but it's great for the stuffing. I think I just did it at 325 degrees straight through. Everything browns much more evenly than when cooking a whole bird. I did split the breast in half.

The main drawback to this method is that dismembering a turkey takes a heavy cleaver and some muscle to get the backbone out. (Also, you don't really get drippings for gravy this way.)

LAZ wrote:

tyrus wrote:The method I liked is to cook the parts on a rack over a pan of stuffing. (Doesn't matter for the turkey itself, but it's great for the stuffing. I think I just did it at 325 degrees straight through. Everything browns much more evenly than when cooking a whole bird. I did split the breast in half.

That reminds me of a Paula Deen (I know, I know, I was sick in bed and too lazy to click the remote) segment on Paris. She passed a food vendor who had whole chickens roasting on a stacked rotisserie, the bottom of which contained a large mound of roasted potatoes, just soaking up the juices that dripped down.

LAZ wrote:

tyrus wrote:I'm wondering if anyone saw the Cook's Illustrated from last weekend (I think) with their "new" version of Thanksgiving turkey parts. They take a non-enhanced (no brine) bird and cut it up into a breast, two legs and two thighs.

The main drawback to this method is that dismembering a turkey takes a heavy cleaver and some muscle to get the backbone out. (Also, you don't really get drippings for gravy this way.)

Thanks for the reply. On the show they use a rack and a baking sheet and line the baking sheet with aromatics (onion, celery, carrot). They also add a cup of water to prevent burning. The resulting turkey "juices" and roasted/soggy veggies get strained into a measuring cup which yields a little over 1 cup of "stock." They amend the turkey drippings with chicken stock to get 3 cups and make their gravy out of that (using a butter/flour roux).

I just may give it a shot and will post my findings...

LAZ wrote:

tyrus wrote:The main drawback to this method is that dismembering a turkey takes a heavy cleaver and some muscle to get the backbone out.

It pays to have a good meat purveyor who'll do the heavy lifting (and cutting) for you. (And it pays to be cute, I'm always amazed by what my wife can get people to do for her, butcher included).

tyrus wrote:I'm wondering if anyone saw the Cook's Illustrated from last weekend (I think) with their "new" version of Thanksgiving turkey parts. They take a non-enhanced (no brine) bird and cut it up into a breast, two legs and two thighs. They then roast it, skin side up on the dark meat and skin side down on the white, in a low oven - 285 (IIRC) for about an hour, then flip the breast over (skin side up) and roast for another hour. After that, it's basically done (this is purely the cliff notes version, not the recipe) and they let it rest for up to an hour and a half before setting the oven to 500 and baking for a last 15 minutes to darken and crisp the skin. The result is supposed to be a juicy, well cooked bird with minimal effort.

I may try it only because the turkey can rest for about an hour or so before being finished. With a normal sized oven, finding room to bake the side items, timing, etc is always an issue. If I take the bird out for an hour, I can bake everything else I need while the bird rests.

Any thoughts/comments on this approach? Thanks much.

Geez, why didn't I think of that...

What do you think of this idea? Roast the turkey the day before...slightly undercook. Let it cool. Carve it and place it in a pan with the turkey juices. On Thanksgiving day gently re-heat until completely cooked. I'm just trying to make my life easier on THE day.

I'm pretty sure it's a bad idea to par-cook meats, but I'd like to hear more opinions. Why not just cook it all the way, carve it, and reheat the plate of pieces?

MHays - Sorry - there seems to be a lot of Thanksgiving type threads and I just missed that one in the search. Your approach is also a great idea but it's a little different than what I saw on the CI show. Same concept though!

razbry - I really don't think par-cooking a turkey is the best idea from a food safety perspective. On another thread Cathy2 discusses food safety and turkey prep but I'm not an expert myself. I know that my grandmother ALWAYS slow roasted her bird and sometimes partially cooked it the night before only to finish it the next day. The white meat wasn't as dried out as you'd think it would be but the dark meat was something that approached turkey leg confit. Simply awesome. I wouldn't try it on my family but nobody ever got sick in her kitchen.

tyrus wrote:MHays - Sorry - there seems to be a lot of Thanksgiving type threads and I just missed that one in the search. Your approach is also a great idea but it's a little different than what I saw on the CI show. Same concept though!

razbry - I really don't think par-cooking a turkey is the best idea from a food safety perspective. On another thread Cathy2 discusses food safety and turkey prep but I'm not an expert myself. I know that my grandmother ALWAYS slow roasted her bird and sometimes partially cooked it the night before only to finish it the next day. The white meat wasn't as dried out as you'd think it would be but the dark meat was something that approached turkey leg confit. Simply awesome. I wouldn't try it on my family but nobody ever got sick in her kitchen.

Food safety aside, far and away the best way to roast a large bird is to start it the night before at 225 degrees and let it go until 40 minutes before dinner, then crank it up to 450 for 15-20 minutes to crisp the skin.

Don't they par roast meat in resturants? Oh chefs...where art thou?

Mhays wrote:

The GP wrote:
Otherwise, if you aren't feeding anyone kosher, I'd sub bacon grease in your turkey rub...I might even sub bacon grease for butter on a turkey anyway, it has better flavor...(I suppose schmaltz/duck/goosefat would be an excellent option as well)

I can definitely recommend using duck fat for the rub, I've done it many times and will likely be using on my turkey this year. I've never tried duck fat in mashed potatoes, but potatoes and duck fat were made for each other. I may try it this weekend.

razbry wrote:What do you think of this idea? Roast the turkey the day before...slightly undercook. Let it cool. Carve it and place it in a pan with the turkey juices. On Thanksgiving day gently re-heat until completely cooked. I'm just trying to make my life easier on THE day.

You should fully cook the bird, just until it tests done. But the rest of the procedure works fine. If you don't have enough pan juices, add a little chicken or turkey broth when you reheat (you can even do it the microwave). You won't get crisp skin, but the meat will be moist and flavorful.

What this (and also the dismember-before-cooking procedure) miss is that Norman Rockwell moment of bringing out the whole turkey. If you don't carve at the table anyway, though, you won't miss it. It's lots easier to carve a turkey once it's completely cool and away from an audience. And you can get much prettier slices by removing the whole breast, deboning and then slicing vs. trying to carve off the carcass.

I think we've finalized the menu (Mexican-themed since I got shot down on my Southeast Asian theme--I think it was the sticky rice/chinese sausage stuffing that did it)...

Queso fundido with chorizo appetizer (from last weeks NY times)
Dry brined turkey (Hoka hen from Treasure Island) with Chile rub
Gravy (standard but presumably the chile from the rub will spice it up a bit)
Mashed sweet potatoes with maple syrup and chipotle (a Bobby Flay recipe I got from the NY times about 7 years ago and have been using since)
Corn bread stuffing with andouille, poblanos and pecans
Cranberry sauce with port and tangerine (Epicurious)
Spinach Gratin
Parker House rolls from the latest Saveur
Guests are bringing:
Cornbread casserole
Pies

thaiobsessed wrote:Parker House rolls from the latest Saveur

Menu sounds terrific, but I was wondering about the Saveur Parker House rolls. Have you made the recipe yet? I've made it twice, first time my yeast may have been old as I got poor rise, but second time was fresh cake yeast and still not where I wanted the rolls. Ratios seem right, I almost wonder if the three rises are not leaving oomph for oven spring.

LOL...that hive mind thing; I was going to try that recipe and decided that since we've got too much on our plate I would buy breads and freeze them. Glad to know there are issues with it, thanks for taking one for the team, G.

G Wiv wrote:

thaiobsessed wrote:Parker House rolls from the latest Saveur

Menu sounds terrific, but I was wondering about the Saveur Parker House rolls. Have you made the recipe yet? I've made it twice, first time my yeast may have been old as I got poor rise, but second time was fresh cake yeast and still not where I wanted the rolls. Ratios seem right, I almost wonder if the three rises are not leaving oomph for oven spring.

Thanks for the heads-up Gary. I may give those a whirl today and see how they turn out (or follow Michelle's lead and buy rolls)

thaiobsessed wrote:Parker House rolls from the latest Saveur

Just checked out the reviews on the Saveur website after Gary's warning. The recipe got panned. Sounds like there are some serious technical issues with the recipe. Plan B is a trial of Lenora's Yeast Rolls from the Bernard Clayton cookbook. I'm hoping to try these today--I'll report back.

thaiobsessed wrote:I think we've finalized the menu (Mexican-themed since I got shot down on my Southeast Asian theme--I think it was the sticky rice/chinese sausage stuffing that did it)...

Corn bread stuffing with andouille, poblanos and pecans

Are you using a recipe, and if so, from where? The whole menu sounds great, but this really sounds right up my alley . . . hoping for pictures, comments and maybe a recipe.

BR wrote:

thaiobsessed wrote:I think we've finalized the menu (Mexican-themed since I got shot down on my Southeast Asian theme--I think it was the sticky rice/chinese sausage stuffing that did it)...

Corn bread stuffing with andouille, poblanos and pecans

Are you using a recipe, and if so, from where? The whole menu sounds great, but this really sounds right up my alley . . . hoping for pictures, comments and maybe a recipe.

Sort of...I'm using a recipe from Bobby Flay Cooks America: Skillet Cornbread Stuffing with Mushrooms, Herbs, and Andouille Sausage and adding a few things (roasted poblanos and pecans, still undecided about whether to keep the mushrooms). I'll post the bones of the recipe tomorrow. I've never tried it.

Will be cooking for a friends family at their house over Thanksgiving. Sharing the duties with my wife and the host Kevin. Cooking for 16 people and this is what we have so far......

Traditional Roast Ho-Ka brined 16 lb. bird
Ho-Ka 5lb breast stuffed with homemade, boudin gonna smoke it over apple wood. recipe from Donald Link's Real Cajun
Oyster dressing
3 sausage dressing with cornbread, Andouille, Chorizo and Mild Italian
Roast Sweet Potato, Banana and honey casserole with streusel topping. Tyler florence recipe, (Made this the last 4 years!)
Broccoli, Rice, Cheddar and Mushroom casserole
Whipped Garlic Potato's
Bacon, Giblet Gravy
Natural Jus gravy
Fresh peas and leeks in butter
Haricots vert with walnut cider vinaigrette

Desserts are undecided
Snacks pre meal we will have, Mini crabcakes with jalapeno remoulade, traditional deviled eggs, and truffled ones as well,

Looking forward to a fun time. Happy Thanksgiving to you all.
Danny

really impressive & tasty menu Danny,

I got my 18# Ho-Ka Saturday, but I am taking it easy this year, decided against brining and smoking a breast and just went with a bigger bird.

that Norman Rockwell moment of bringing out the whole turkey

Just curious, how many of you go for that carving the whole bird at tableside Norman Rockwell moment? It has never been the standard in my family.

On an unrelated note. I always enjoyed watching (every year) one of my aunts sleuth out and stealthily snag the "oyster" of the turkey!