Kennyz wrote:Also learned that it's a hell of a lot easier to get through to someone who can talk to you in detail about how Miller chickens are raised and processed than it is to get through to someone who can talk in detail about how Gunthorp chickens are raised and processed.

I didn't bother trying to call the phone number on their website, but their (irritatingly cutesy) website does provide some of the basic info:

Gunthorp Farms Website wrote:...we raise Cornish Cross chickens (and a few Barred Rocks for those looking for a Heritage bird). Our chickens spend the first 3-4 weeks of their lives in the brooding barn under the care and management of our children. After that, they are moved out to pasture (the chickens, that is, not the kids.) While being allowed to “day range”, the chickens still receive a mixture of corn, soybeans, and Hubbard’s Homestead mineral mix.

Not quite the full disclosure of Polyface Farm (the source of most of my poultry when I lived in VA), who has had the benefit of many books and movies featuring them. Hell, you can watch them slaughtering their chickens on YouTube (start around 2:15)

It's been my experience that most small family farms are usually happy to talk about their practices and even show you around (I've visited Polyface, Double-H, Mount Air, Gryffon's Aerie, and others), but because they're often operated by a small staff (sometimes just the immediate family), they almost never pick up the phone because they're out working with their animals.

-Dan

dansch wrote:It's been my experience that most small family farms are usually happy to talk about their practices and even show you around (I've visited Polyface, Double-H, Mount Air, Gryffon's Aerie, and others), but because they're often operated by a small staff (sometimes just the immediate family), they almost never pick up the phone because they're out working with their animals.

That's my experience too, and I have no issue with it. I just found it rather bizarre that people were claiming to have such a hard time getting information about Miller chickens. It was easy as pie for me.

Kennyz wrote:

dansch wrote:It's been my experience that most small family farms are usually happy to talk about their practices and even show you around (I've visited Polyface, Double-H, Mount Air, Gryffon's Aerie, and others), but because they're often operated by a small staff (sometimes just the immediate family), they almost never pick up the phone because they're out working with their animals.

That's my experience too, and I have no issue with it. I just found it rather bizarre that people were claiming to have such a hard time getting information about Miller chickens. It's easy as pie.

Kenny, I think the complaint was regarding getting information from WF about Miller's chickens (which are not labeled as Miller's chickens at WF, by the way). It goes without saying that WF should be willing to readily provide their customers with information on-the-spot about the source of their chickens, and how they were raised.

I was aware that Miller's sources from several farms, but that is not an asset in my book. Even if Gunthorp provides Miller's with chickens to be sold under the Miller's or its WF private label brand, I'd still rather buy directly from Gunthorp, and have more direct information from them than try to track down information on each of Miller's source farms, or worse, attempt to gain information on Miller's quality control standards for each of their source farms, and on how they oversee and enforce those standards.

aschie30 wrote:I was aware that Miller's sources from several farms, but that is not an asset in my book.

I like buying directly from a farmer, but I recognize that companies like Miller or Niman are able to do more as a collective than as individual small farms. Building a brand, marketing, reaching mainstream consumers, ensuring a consistent and reliable supply for retailers and restaurants, etc., are all difficult to do as individual businesses. If banding together under a common brand allows like-minded famers to make a living doing the sustainable thing, I'm for it.

-Dan

dansch wrote:

aschie30 wrote:I was aware that Miller's sources from several farms, but that is not an asset in my book.

I like buying directly from a farmer, but I recognize that companies like Miller or Niman are able to do more as a collective than as individual small farms. Building a brand, marketing, reaching mainstream consumers, ensuring a consistent and reliable supply for retailers and restaurants, etc., are all difficult to do as individual businesses. If banding together under a common brand allows like-minded famers to make a living doing the sustainable thing, I'm for it.

-Dan

If that's what Miller's is doing, then I'd generally agree with some caveats, but their reach is really far (they supply many grocery stores in multiple Midwestern states), that I think calling it a "collective" might be a stretch.

aschie30 wrote:I was aware that Miller's sources from several farms, but that is not an asset in my book. Even if Gunthorp provides Miller's with chickens to be sold under the Miller's or its WF private label brand, I'd still rather buy directly from Gunthorp, and have more direct information from them than try to track down information on each of Miller's source farms, or worse, attempt to gain information on Miller's quality control standards for each of their source farms, and on how they oversee and enforce those standards.

Agree on all counts. Unfortunately, fresh Gunthorp chickens are not available at any of my numerous Saturday morning shopping stops, and Miller chickens are. And my wife might kill me if I start taking even more than the usual 4 hours to "pick up the groceries" every week. She gets hungry.

aschie30 wrote:If that's what Miller's is doing, then I'd generally agree with some caveats, but their reach is really far (they supply many grocery stores in multiple Midwestern states), that I think calling it a "collective" might be a stretch.

Agreed. I would hope that Miller's, Niman, etc would be more forthcoming with information on what standards they apply to their member farms. The Niman FAQ discusses some of their standards, but I can't find any place on their website where they clearly outline their standards.

Whole Foods actually does a better job than most in publishing their standards online. While some of their Miller chickens may have been allowed access to the outside, you'll note that Whole Foods' standards don't call for it (only "Appropriate litter provided for comfort and to satisfy natural foraging instincts"), so you don't know what you're getting with whitelabeled chickens (they may be raised differently than what Miller would do for chickens carrying their logo)

I've personally called Whole Foods to task over their sustainable seafood greenwash, so I certainly don't think they're perfect on the disclosure front. They now claim to color-code all non-MSC seafood, though I can't say I spend much time at the WF fish counter these days.

-Dan

dansch wrote:

aschie30 wrote:If that's what Miller's is doing, then I'd generally agree with some caveats, but their reach is really far (they supply many grocery stores in multiple Midwestern states), that I think calling it a "collective" might be a stretch.

Agreed. I would hope that Miller's, Niman, etc would be more forthcoming with information on what standards they apply to their member farms. The Niman FAQ discusses some of their standards, but I can't find any place on their website where they clearly outline their standards.

Whole Foods actually does a better job than most in publishing their standards online. While some of their Miller chickens may have been allowed access to the outside, you'll note that Whole Foods' standards don't call for it (only "Appropriate litter provided for comfort and to satisfy natural foraging instincts"), so you don't know what you're getting with whitelabeled chickens (they may be raised differently than what Miller would do for chickens carrying their logo)

I've personally called Whole Foods to task over their sustainable seafood greenwash, so I certainly don't think they're perfect on the disclosure front. They now claim to color-code all non-MSC seafood, though I can't say I spend much time at the WF fish counter these days.

-Dan

Whole Foods frustrates me immensely. Which is why I accept them as a necessarily evil for certain items, and try to shop elsewhere, especially for meat and produce.

FWIW, within the last month the Miller chicken from the butcher counter at WF has had "MLR" on the printed label. I don't think they're keeping it that secret..

aschie30 wrote:Whole Foods frustrates me immensely. Which is why I accept them as a necessarily evil for certain items, and try to shop elsewhere, especially for meat and produce.

It's interesting that we both regard Whole Foods in the same way, yet my "solution" is to shop elsewhere for everyting EXCEPT for meat.

I'll stick to Marketplace on Oakton, which routinely carries Bell & Evans whole chickens for a buck-forty-nine per lb. Bought a nice plump one Saturday, roasted it Sunday. Fabulous. Cost me less than eight bucks.

dansch wrote:

aschie30 wrote:If that's what Miller's is doing, then I'd generally agree with some caveats, but their reach is really far (they supply many grocery stores in multiple Midwestern states), that I think calling it a "collective" might be a stretch.

Agreed. I would hope that Miller's, Niman, etc would be more forthcoming with information on what standards they apply to their member farms. The Niman FAQ discusses some of their standards, but I can't find any place on their website where they clearly outline their standards.

Whole Foods actually does a better job than most in publishing their standards online. While some of their Miller chickens may have been allowed access to the outside, you'll note that Whole Foods' standards don't call for it (only "Appropriate litter provided for comfort and to satisfy natural foraging instincts"), so you don't know what you're getting with whitelabeled chickens (they may be raised differently than what Miller would do for chickens carrying their logo)

I've personally called Whole Foods to task over their sustainable seafood greenwash, so I certainly don't think they're perfect on the disclosure front. They now claim to color-code all non-MSC seafood, though I can't say I spend much time at the WF fish counter these days.

-Dan

I only eat chickens that have been allowed to satisfy their natural tic-tac-toe playing instincts.

Mikey wrote:I only eat chickens that have been allowed to satisfy their natural tic-tac-toe playing instincts.

Hmm. I only know about chicken checkers.

Anyway, I'm hoping someone will let me in on the joke ... you know, the gag behind the 73 comments about the relative benefits of raising your chickens Amish in a thread supposedly about City Provisions. Is it like when dailykos members used to serenade suspected trolls with recipes for pie? "When a restaurant or grocery owner complains about his web reviews, his thread shall dwindle into irrelevance!"

Myself, I prefer a Unitarian chicken, but I've had little luck finding a consistent source. Anyone know what religion the Gunthorpes practice?

(All this is just my sense of humor, so I hope it doesn't seem aggressive or critical. I actually find the chicken discussion quite good and interesting. I just wonder if it should be in its own thread somewhere.)

ryanwc wrote:

Mikey wrote:I only eat chickens that have been allowed to satisfy their natural tic-tac-toe playing instincts.

Hmm. I only know about chicken checkers.

Anyway, I'm hoping someone will let me in on the joke

ryanwc wrote:(All this is just my sense of humor, so I hope it doesn't seem aggressive or critical. I actually find the chicken discussion quite good and interesting. I just wonder if it should be in its own thread somewhere.)

Of course it should. Which is why it will remain here.

ryanwc wrote:

Mikey wrote:I only eat chickens that have been allowed to satisfy their natural tic-tac-toe playing instincts.

Hmm. I only know about chicken checkers.

Anyway, I'm hoping someone will let me in on the joke ...

ABOUT NEW YORK; Cross Out a Landmark On the Chinatown Tour

THE chicken in Chinatown that played tick-tack-toe with customers is dead.

It died two and a half weeks ago during the hot spell. According to the people at Chinatown Fair, the games arcade at 8 Mott Street, where the chicken worked, it showed a great deal of heart almost to the end. Just two days before it died it was still pecking its way through games with whoever dropped 50 cents into the slot in front of its coop.

Calvin Trillin also wrote about it once or twice.

Similarly:

Chicken checkers actually predates casinos:

http://www.thedizzylounge.com/thedizzy_ ... php?t=9326



And for the locavores here, there's no need to travel all the way to Foxwoods! Chicken checkers is an Illinois game. I first heard about it from our esteemed Senator Durbin, when as a young man he traveled his congressional district meeting folks.

They're Everywhere, They're Everywhere

I heard about this new place on the North side called City Provisions deli. Anybody know anything about it? Is there a chicken farm 800 number I can call to learn more about it?

There have been some comments about excessively high prices at City Provisions, which I may find to be the case after exploring the place more fully. As a counterpoint though, I tasted Laughing Bird Shrimp Salad from 2 places: $9.99 at City Provisions, and $12.99 at Dirk's Fish Market. Beyond price, unlike Dirk's The CP version had house made mayo which made it taste significantly better, imo.

Update: I should have checked my receipt in the store, because when I got home I realized that the shrimp salad I mentioned above rang up at $12.50 despite the $9.99 sign in the display case. Still delicious and well worth it. Also really liked the potato-cheese knish, which was richly flavored but lightly textured after a 12-minute reheat at 375 degrees. Housemade country pate had potential, but although the flavor was great I think it had been undercooked and not given enough time to set. The texture was too crumbly and towards the center it was too pink for comfort.

David Hammond wrote:They [customers] might say, “Can you get some tilapia,” and our answer would be “No, because it doesn’t fit into our model.”

Mike G wrote:Tilapia can be pretty sustainable, depending on how you do it. For instance, Aquaranch in downstate Illinois ...

I also noticed that City Provisions sells Aquaranch tilapia in the freezer case.

In my post on the first page, I expressed concern about the pricing at City Provisions and I noted that the cost of my turkey pastrami sandwich was high. But I want to be careful about how I express these thoughts because it's not my opinion that City Provisions' offerings are overpriced. My concern is that there are not enough people willing to venture to City Provisions to spend the money on their high end items. UES Manhattan, where the vast majority of residences are at least mid-rises? Yes! But let's face it - there are a heck of a lot of people within waking distance of City Provisions willing to spend their hard-earned money on pre-packaged lunch meats at Dewel and Jominick's. I sincerely hope they make it. In my opinion, they're doing pretty much everything the right way.

On a side note, while picking up a prescription at Dominick's yesterday, I mistakenly accepted a sample of their crab salad on a cracker. It tasted of sea dredge. I then moved quickly through the store searching for the sample that could erase this awful fish taste from my mouth . . . thankfully, I found them sampling egg nog. It was sufficient to get rid of the sea dredge taste in my mouth. And for that, I was thankful.

Over the last several months, City Provisions has become a go-to joint for me and Ronna. We've been regularly buying Gunthorp chickens and CP's housemade (Dietzler) roast beef, and we've enjoyed their bacon, pates and terrines. They also have a nice selection of area craft brews and booze. The staff is extraordinarily friendly and give off the vibe that they just love working there.

Most recently, I tried my first City Provisions sandwich. They ran a special of hot roast beef & tongue, CP sauce, slaw, and swiss, on pumpernickel. It was a truly excellent sandwich.


I'm very glad to have City Provisions in the neighborhood.
--Rich

I picked up some roast beef from the CP deli yesterday and it is absolutely delicious. Nice rosemary flavor and perfectly roasted. The staff is really friendly. I just wonder how they can pay the rent given the low density of product in the store and the location. But maybe I just always stop by at slow times during the afternoon.

RAB wrote:Most recently, I tried my first City Provisions sandwich. They ran a special of hot roast beef & tongue, CP sauce, slaw, and swiss, on pumpernickel. It was a truly excellent sandwich.

After a shaky start I'm starting to see the joy in CP, today's turkey ruben with house made chips and pickle nudging me toward fan territory.

I'm up and down on this place. First off, it's nice to have this place less than a block from my office.

However, the price fluctuations can be frustrating. The corned beef sandwich was $8.50 when they opened, and then went up to $12.50 during the winter. I understand that everything is locally sourced, so when something is in low supply they have to raise prices, but it's still annoying not to know what you're about to shell out every time you walk in. For the record, I think they're back down to a more reasonable $9.50.

As far as the product, I have very little complaints. I’ve only had one subpar thing there, and that was the chicken parmesan special they offered last week. The chicken was dry and the baguette was over toasted. Stick with the cured and fresh meats and the pates, in my opinion. And if you ever see the kohlrabi reuben on the specials board, get it. Get five! Best sandwich I’ve ever had in this city.

Looking through my posts I am surprised to find I never mentioned City Provisions.

I was first introduced to this place through my Fork and the Road Deli-cious tour, curated by happy_stomach and hellodali. At the time I commented how CP's Chicken Salad was the best I've ever had



Since then I have made several visits to City Provisions a week (yes, that's right, a week). Whether it be their cured meats or their sides (fridge is currently holding their Jalapeno Sweet Potatoes, Sriracha Egg Salad, and their Butternut Squash Polenta), City Provisions has become a quick fix for my dinner needs.






I was finally able to clear some time and take part in City Provision's Brunch this last Sunday.

Upon arriving, I ordered a
Cleetus Heatus Aquavit Bloody Mary with a charcuterie kabob


Cleetus (also serving as our waiter) brought out some liver which, as he explained, was his grandmother's favorite.



Nothing wrong with that.

I ordered the
Butcher’s Breakfast two fried eggs, bacon, sausage, ham & duck fat home fries. Served with toast




Dana ordered the
Duck Fat & Bacon Pancakes with dunk confit & apple butter




Everything was spot on. I'm not a pancake person, but after finishing my plate (licked it clean) I happily devoured the rest of Dana's flapjacks. Space is extremely limited, but we didn't have to wait at all (though we shared a table with another couple).

Just another reason why City Provisions is a daily destination.

*edit*

I forgot to mention how incredible their coffee is. Dana and I try to cycle through their offerings, but I tend to order their Vanilla Malt latte while Dana gravitates towards their raw honey latte. I've also ejoyed their goat's milk latte on occasion.

I've still never been to CPD but your beautiful shots have convinced me that I need to get over there asap.

Thanks,

=R=

My love for City Provisions continues. In addition to their great local beer/spirit collection, cured meats, and sides (sriracha egg salad!), they also make a mean sandwich.

Chicken Salad organic dried cranberries / jicama / mayo / wheat wrap


The CP Italian Fra' Mani soppressata and nostrano / creminelli mortadella / house-smoked ham / sarvecchio parmesan / housemade giardiniera / oregano balsamic vinegar




Pastrami spicy grain mustard / rye


Smoked Turkey smoked gouda / romaine / rosemary mayo / tomato focaccia


All sandwiches served with chips


To be honest, I have unwrapped a few sandwiches and felt a bit cheated (The pastami is 11.95!?!), but on first bite, those thoughts go out the window.

I had a great corned beef sandwich at CP today. This is a truly great shop. If you've been meaning to check it out, figure out an excuse to go.