Cha Ca Hanoi: Grilled Fish with Tumeric and Dill

I've been wanting to try making this classic dish, also called Cha Ca La Vong after the restaurant where the dish originated, after having eaten it in Hanoi and most recently at Pho Xua. Unfortunately, I waited until it got cold and I had to broil it, rather than grill it (o.k, I'm too wimpy to stand outside grilling in this weather).
Typically, the dish uses catfish which is marinated with turmeric, then grilled. It's served over rice noodles, topped with lots of dill, scallions and peanuts with a sesame rice cracker and salad/herb plate on the side. I tried the recipe from Andrea Nguyen's Into the Vietnamese kitchen. Her recipe calls for marinated the fish (I used turbot) in sour cream, ground turmeric, galangal juice (made from shredded galangal) and fine shrimp sauce (mam tom), then broiling it. The accompanying sauce is a riff on nuoc cham with fine shrimp sauce added. This was my first time 'making' sesame rice crackers--basically thick rice paper sheets with sesame seeds (I found them at Tai Nam) toasted in the oven.

Fish topped with scallions and dill:


Accompaniments:


Finished dish:


I liked this dish but the shrimp sauce is pretty funky. If I make it again, I'll definitely decrease the shrimp sauce quantity--the funk was a little much for me in this batch.

So funny . . . because I just had that dish at Pho Xua on Wednesday and I was not aware that dill was even used in Vietnamese cooking. Your dish is beautiful and more photogenic than Pho Xua's version (which I thought was quite good). Other than the shrimp sauce issue, how do you compare the various versions you've had (Pho Xua, yours and the one in Hanoi)?

Looks beautiful. I will make it tonight using the recipe here.

thaiobsessed, you always have the most interesting posts and great photos! This sounds very delicious although way past my level of skill -- or ambition.

And turbot is such a nice fish for this kind of dish. Why don't we see more turbot in restaurants and stores? When I was a young waitress at a fish restaurant, we served it all the time (sweet and sour sauce ladled on a baked/broiled fillet). Now I have not seen it on a restaurant menu in decades and can't remember the last time I found it a a fish monger's. Can I ask where you purchased the turbot?

I may have said this before but I hope you are compiling a cookbook with photos. I would be the first in line to buy a copy. Thanks for another great post!

--Joy

BR wrote:So funny . . . because I just had that dish at Pho Xua on Wednesday

After reading Thaiobsessed's post doubt I'll last a week before either attempting it on my own or going to Pho Xau. Deliciously inspiring, as are so many of Thaiobsessed's posts.

This is the first time I have cooked with galangal. Very interesting flavor - sure is expensive.

lougord99 wrote:This is the first time I have cooked with galangal. Very interesting flavor - sure is expensive.

Expensive? Usually it's cheap at any of the grocery stores in the Argyle area. It's not always available fresh, but Tai Nam always has frozen, vacuum-sealed bags of galangal slices for a couple of bucks.

Tai Nam
4925 N Broadway
Chicago, IL 60640
773-275-5666

-Dan

lougord99 wrote:Very interesting flavor - sure is expensive

I usually buy it fresh (I think the last time I bought it, it was about a buck fifty), peel it with a vegetable peeler, wrap it in foil, throw it in a ziploc and freeze it (I cut half into slices, half I leave whole so I can grate it with my microplane--it grates beautifully frozen).

Thanks everyone, for the kind compliments.

BR wrote:Other than the shrimp sauce issue, how do you compare the various versions you've had (Pho Xua, yours and the one in Hanoi)

Except for the slight excess funkiness, I thought it turned out great. I like it better than Pho Xua's (although I think that may be because I prefer the turbot; also, their sesame cracker was a little charred for my taste) but not nearly as good as in Hanoi (alas, the commute is a little far). So, it's a work in progress. But it's not too hard to make.

Joy wrote:Can I ask where you purchased the turbot?

Whole foods--not my favorite store for general shopping but they do get good fish (and I needed a place I could get fish and dill). I agree that it's a nice fish and the flavor is fairly mild so you can appreciate the flavors in the marinade and the dill.

Joy wrote:I may have said this before but I hope you are compiling a cookbook with photos. I would be the first in line to buy a copy.

Thanks so much. But unfortunately, if I compiled a cookbook, I'd be guilty of copyright infringement because I'm relying pretty heavily on the recipes of others, at least as a starting point. I love Andrea Nguyen's cookbooks--easy to follow, nice pictures, delicious recipes and many things are explained in more detail on her website (e.g. videos on how to form dumplings).

Here's a pic of the new-to-me ingredients I used in this recipe:


On the left are the bahn trang me--sesame rice sheets (basically thick rice paper studded with sesame seeds which magically turn into crackers when toasted in the oven). Per Andrea Nguyen's website, rice paper is bahn trang; the 'me' distinguishes it as as sesame rice paper.
On the right is the fine shrimp sauce (apparently there is a more coarse variety). The marinade and sauce each call for about a tablespoon of this stuff--I was pretty generous with it but for my next batch I'll be using left. It's pretty potent (**funky in this sense)-similar to shrimp paste but with a different consistency.

**

David Hammond wrote:Funky can be a negative or positive word.

"This cheese is funky" is, for me at least, a positive, meaning strong with the scent of fermentation.

dansch wrote:

lougord99 wrote:This is the first time I have cooked with galangal. Very interesting flavor - sure is expensive.

Expensive? Usually it's cheap at any of the grocery stores in the Argyle area. It's not always available fresh, but Tai Nam always has frozen, vacuum-sealed bags of galangal slices for a couple of bucks.

$5.99 at H-mart. Since it is so hard, you cannot break off the amount you need, like ginger. I didn't know about thaiobsessed trick of slicing it up and freezing. I threw quite a bit out.

lougord99 wrote:$5.99 at H-mart. Since it is so hard, you cannot break off the amount you need, like ginger. I didn't know about thaiobsessed trick of slicing it up and freezing. I threw quite a bit out.

Galangal should be as easy to break, slice, grate, chop as fresh ginger root, which it greatly resembles. If yours was so hard you could not break or slice it was either mismarked or old and dried out.

ThaiObsessed, in reading your recipe the use of sour cream seems an anomaly.

ThaiObsessed - That is so impressive!

Our family have never thought to use turbot. In the States, catfish is the norm. In France, we use lotte (i.e. monkfish). Even though turbot is readily available. Monkfish gives a meatier texture, and not as much liquid, so it grills/saute/broils up nicely. I will confer with my siblings about the use of turbot.

Mam nem ca, is definitely funkier than mam tom. I don't dare to have it in my house. I do eat it when it's done right, then I lap it up. As far as the funkiness dipping sauce of mam tom, we cut it with a drop or 2 of ca cuong into the sauce, lime, sugar, and hot thai chili. The ca cuong has a strong aromatics that relegates the funkiness of the shrimp paste to 2nd chair.

Info on ca cuong:
I was lucky enough to have tasted these salt roasted bugs before they were wiped out by Agent Orange. Seriously delicious. You break open the body (thorax?), and eat the creamy goo, kind of like crab mustard/tomalley. They are extremely scarce now, so most extracts sold are scientific compounds, but they serve their purpose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethocerus_indicus
http://blog.yume.vn/xem-buzz/day-mui-gi ... 53B53.html

G Wiv wrote:ThaiObsessed, in reading your recipe the use of sour cream seems an anomaly.

Sour cream is unheard of in traditional cha ca ha noi. With the marinade, you will end up with a nice creamy crust when you sautee to just the right temperature to retain moistness.

Dill is probably one of the French influence during colonial times. Dill is used in several northern vietnamese dishes, more so than southern. The norther version of canh chua (sour fish soup) is made with shallots/onions, tomatoes and dills. The southern version is with rau om, bac ha, tomatoes, onions, and sometimes celery as well.

ThaiObssessed - Let me know if you have any questions about some of these stuff, I can either provide info and insights or can ask my family. I am in awe of you for your interests and effort.

Amazing post, petite_gourmande.

petite_gourmande wrote:most extracts sold are scientific compounds

Any ideas about where to find the ca cuong compounds in Chicago? Now I'm really curious to try it.

petite_gourmande wrote:G Wiv wrote:
ThaiObsessed, in reading your recipe the use of sour cream seems an anomaly.

Sour cream is unheard of in traditional cha ca ha noi. With the marinade, you will end up with a nice creamy crust when you sautee to just the right temperature to retain moistness.

I figured sour cream wasn't authentic--more of a means to getting the marinade ingredients to stick.

Petite_gourmande, is Cha ca typically pan-fried? I thought when I had it, it was grilled? I've seen a bunch of pan-fried version on the web. I may try making it on the stove next...

thaiobsessed wrote:Any ideas about where to find the ca cuong compounds in Chicago? Now I'm really curious to try it.

You can find them in any southeast asian market, vietnamese or thai. I also have some that a scientist made for us from Paris, which I can share. Literally, you only want one drop or 2 drops of the stuff. More than that and it is bitter and ruins the entire dish.

As far as the sour cream for the purpose of sticking, we never had the problem of sticking. We also use minced shallots, turmeric, galanga, plus a touch of shrimp paste, sugar, pepper, and salt. With the moisture from the fish and the seasoning and marinading overnight, everything melds together to form a paste. So the sour cream would only dilutes it.

I grew up with it grilled over charcoal (real charred wood, didn't have Kingsford). However, nowadays for convenience sake, sauteed or broiling is the preferred and has become standard. We use a rack to grill cha ca or bun cha over the charcoal. I bought one at H Mart, that is still in the package, unused. Sauteed over high heat is the preferred method over broiling when grilling is not available, because saute seals in the moisture instead of letting it leak out and forms a nice crisp crust from the marinade.

By the way, you can use the Banh Trang Me, or Banh Da is another name, but I have found it to be kind of hard at times. Another common substitute is shrimp chips which provides the texture constrast.

Thai cuisine does a wonderful dipping sauce with the shrimp paste, talk about funkiness, but so addictive. They balance the funkiness with dried shrimp and palm sugar, then bracing squirt of lime and hot chilis, topped off with a drop of the ca coung. I think Spoon, TAC Quick, and Sticky Rice offer it on their menu. You dip all kinds of fresh veggies in it, wonderful on a hot summer day with bottles and bottles of beer.

We use the ca cuong for Bun Thang, one of the few native dishes that I know how to cook and can do well.

Let me know if you would like to try the cha ca again, and I can provide the ca cuoung. Would like to try the turbot, monkfish (lotte), and catfish side by side for comparisons. By the way, how you cut the fish into nuggets makes a difference. As does the size of the nuggets, who says size doesn't matter?

Too cool that you made this. Just like Dansh who made cha gio for the picnic. Can't get over it.

G Wiv wrote:

lougord99 wrote:$5.99 at H-mart. Since it is so hard, you cannot break off the amount you need, like ginger. I didn't know about thaiobsessed trick of slicing it up and freezing. I threw quite a bit out.

Galangal should be as easy to break, slice, grate, chop as fresh ginger root, which it greatly resembles. If yours was so hard you could not break or slice it was either mismarked or old and dried out.

ThaiObsessed, in reading your recipe the use of sour cream seems an anomaly.

Definitely wasn't mismarked - I've seen it often enough. However, it was the last piece in the bin, so it was probably old.

Joy wrote:And turbot is such a nice fish for this kind of dish. Why don't we see more turbot in restaurants and stores? When I was a young waitress at a fish restaurant, we served it all the time (sweet and sour sauce ladled on a baked/broiled fillet). Now I have not seen it on a restaurant menu in decades and can't remember the last time I found it a a fish monger's. Can I ask where you purchased the turbot?

When cod was overfished, many in the food service industry switched to turbot which was cheap and plentiful 15-20 years ago. The few times I have seen it in recent years, it has been as expensive as cod.