gleam wrote:

bibi rose wrote: (Doesn't the word "salad" even come from the Latin for "salted thing"?)

yeah, salad comes, at the base, from sal and salare, salt and to salt respectively.
that's also where we get "salary" and "worth your salt", since it was used to pay roman troops way back in the day.
-ed

... Also salame. salume, salumeria and salsa, and from this last form also sauce and, for that matter, sausage (<salsicia).

From medieval table arrangements, 'above the salt' (where the family sat) and 'below the salt' (where the servants sat).

A

I am heartened that the waves of hysterical diatribes in support of eating oily leaves have finally heaved up a grain of truth.

Salad is, indeed, much more tolerable with a good shake of salt.

Me, I love salt: it's the condiment I use most frequently. My whole family eats a lot of salt; in fact, there are dinners where each person has their own salt shaker (I prefer the canister, about the size of a can of peas, with a few dozen holes in the top). I recently purchased a set of six tiny glass saltshakers (from which I intend to craft Xmas gifts for my family: tiny necklace saltshakers that can be worn around the neck for easy-access).

I understand that some with health conditions may not be able to eat as much salt as they'd like, but if your heart can take it, why not stock up on salt: it's no cal, and it makes some salad taste almost edible.

After listening to the lovely Ms. Wiv extol the virtues of Fleur de Sel, I bought a jar from Penzey's (they long resisted selling salt because, you know, it's a mineral, not a spice). I like to sprinkle it over sliced tomatoes (which I think of more as small vegetable steaks than salad), and it just melts over the slices, drawing out the sweet nectar of the love apples, mingling with the vegetal, floral juices, dissolving into a flavorful broth that glistens over the bright red, green, yellow, purple slabs, transporting me to heights of late summer euphoria.

Salt. The other white powder.

Mr. Salmon,

I am truly happy for you that your de-bait has drawn out the only justifiable use of salad: a medium for salt.

However, I wish to note for the board publicly, that I find your recipe for stir fried monkey over a bed of greens to be both hypocritical and in very poor taste (humorous pun not intended). I take particular offense to your substitution of medium Italian sausage for the ground pork in the lobster sauce. This is a new low even for you. Have you never lost a pet, a loved one, an accompanist/business partner. If you think the adder's tooth sharp, persist in this behavior and you shall feel the business end of my attack-trained weasel.

Four more weasles! You'll be lovin' it alrighty!

"Salad is Good" Just listen....

After 9/11, and in the face of fashionable patriotism and concomitant distrust/hatred of Islam, I decided to read The Koran (made it about half-way through; way too religious)

In much the same vein, I read with interest the New Yorker article entitled 'Salad Days,' by Burkhardt Bilger). Overall, and despite my feelings about eating raw leaves, I applaud the search for new foods, and I think it speaks very well for the American public that we keep trying new stuff. Incidentally, the Sept 6th New Yorker is fantastic; the article on catsup is fascinating, and it explains how and why catsup is so appealing: apparently, it hits all major flavor receptors on the tongue (including umami), making it a nearly perfectly balanced and uniformly delicious food.

Anyhow, about salad, etc., I read a statistic a few years ago that the average American tries a new kind of fruit or vegetable about 4-5 times every year. That's remarkable to me and undeniably good news. The demand for new sensations is there; makes me proud to be an American again.

Actually, I'd like to try that mache, which (astoundingly) is now being offered in salads served at Burger King. It's true.

DH:

How's my little Gennarino? You better be treating him right. I'll say no more.

I'll throw in a couple of bags of Gerardo di Nola pasta with the sausage if he comes back safe and sound.

And the family honour remains unbesmirched.

A

Antonius,

"Gigi" -- as his bunkmate calls him -- is doing tolerably well in captivity, and he looks quite "pretty" dressed up in dolly clothing.

Hammond

DH:

If what you say is so, keep him then. He is dead to me now. We will never speak of him again.

He should have perished fighting to preserve his honour...

Antonius

Hey Antonious

Sounds like Gigi's got a new organ to play



http://hem.passagen.se/daveo/Hammond_english.htm

JSM wrote:Hey Antonious

Sounds like Gigi's got a new organ to play

A

(Le parole non servono.)

A,

Gigi: Getting in touch with his feminine side.

I believe I have discovered a way to eat salad comfortably and with some enjoyment.

Sitting down to dinner tonight, I first put the salad on my plate, then some pasta on top of the salad, then some Bolognese sauce and cheese on top of that, and the heat of the pasta and sauce nicely wilted the leaves, making them more a part of the meal, and helping render their consumption almost unnoticeable (rather than just an odious chore one must perform before getting to the good stuff).

So, for now, I’d say that that best way to eat salad is to mix it into the real food, where the bitter leaves somewhat weaken, dissolve, and pass into the system, more or less painlessly.

Hammond

David,

My niece Elizabeth belongs in your salad hating club.

When she and her sister were small, they loved the tacos at Taco Bell. Ordering their meal often conjured up the thought of 'When Harry met Sally' and my girls were their children. "I want two soft shell tacos. One meat and lettuce only, no cheese. The other is cheese only, no meat, no lettuce." Cheese only was for Elizabeth. She would open her taco and carefully inspect for contaminents. If she saw one spec of lettuce, then it was no longer good enough for her.

When she orders Chinese noodle soup, she specifies no chopped onions on top because it is too close to salad. Just last week I got her to try Vietnamese spring rolls forgetting about the mint and greens inside. Sure enough she began fishing out the green stuff, though I kept encouraging her to try the whole composition before refining it.

The only time she has even eaten salad was in nursery school. Only because she wasn't going to be served any more pasta until she ate the salad. What grosses her out more than the lettuce? The salad dressing! Her salad at nursery school did not have dressing otherwise she might have starved!

I will be sure to link to Elizabeth your post.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:When she and her sister were small, they loved the tacos at Taco Bell. Ordering their meal often conjured up the thought of 'When Harry met Sally' and my girls were their children. "I want two soft shell tacos. One meat and lettuce only, no cheese. The other is cheese only, no meat, no lettuce." Cheese only was for Elizabeth. She would open her taco and carefully inspect for contaminents. If she saw one spec of lettuce, then it was no longer good enough for her.

When she orders Chinese noodle soup, she specifies no chopped onions on top because it is too close to salad. Just last week I got her to try Vietnamese spring rolls forgetting about the mint and greens inside. Sure enough she began fishing out the green stuff, though I kept encouraging her to try the whole composition before refining it.

Another thing I like about kids: they take food very seriously and they're so extraordinarily sensitive. It amazes me that a kid who hates, say, celery, will pick up the slightest hint of celery in a dish you make (it's uncanny...almost like if you use the same knife to cut celery that you used to cut their P&B sandwich, they know it and they let you know about it).

I caught an interview with the owner of Taste of Heaven on Chicago Tonight last night. He struck as being a pain-in-the-butt, but maybe (more than likely) it's just me -- and as many have pointed out elsewhere, it's his damn restaurant and he can do whatever he pleases. I'll never go there; I like kids -- the wilder, the better.

Hammond

After a long evening of eating and drinking last night, a light meal (which required no excursion in to the cold) seemed appropriate. My fridge produced a random assortment of veggies, which came together in a massive salad of bibb, endive, shaved fennel, grapefruit supremes, toasted almonds, and shaved Kite's country ham, dressed with an aged sherry vinegar and whole grain mustard vinaigrette. While I respect David's hatred for soup, at least tonight, he was wrong about salad.

-Dan

dansch wrote:After a long evening of eating and drinking last night, a light meal (which required no excursion in to the cold) seemed appropriate. My fridge produced a random assortment of veggies, which came together in a massive salad of bibb, endive, shaved fennel, grapefruit supremes, toasted almonds, and shaved Kite's country ham, dressed with an aged sherry vinegar and whole grain mustard vinaigrette. While I respect David's hatred for soup, at least tonight, he was wrong about salad.

-Dan

It's not really a question of right and wrong (though we all tend to take extreme positions at times ).

I eat salad daily (though usually I just shove it down my gullet, like vitamins, not enjoying but knowing I need it). Upon reflection, I think the main problem I have with eating leaves is that there's too much negative space.

What about wilted salads or salads like goma-ae, then?

Mhays wrote:What about wilted salads or salads like goma-ae, then?

Or egg salad, or potato salad, or fruit salad, or tabouli.

What I'm inveighing against, specifically, is the green salad, which I must eat daily, but it gives me no joy.

David Hammond wrote:What I'm inveighing against, specifically, is the green salad, which I must eat daily, but it gives me no joy.

You're not putting enough bacon in it.

David Hammond wrote:Upon reflection, I think the main problem I have with eating leaves is that there's too much negative space.

I avoid salad for the same reason, which is why I was elated to see the topic of negative space and vegetables get significant attention at last year's Milan Design Week. (No, I'm not kidding.) For a prime example, see Viennese designers Mischer’Traxler's series Reversed Volumes, bowls molded with unfired ceramic powder. Salad I like not so much--"raw" salad fossils more interesting to me...






All photos from Dezeen

Actually, food and negative space got play beyond vegetables even before last year. See Italian designers Formafantasma's Baked series of vegetable- and bread-based vessels unveiled in Eindhoven in 2009.


Image via Dezeen

This is all to say that, David, I think you and I need to get over the negative space thing...it's sooo 2010.

Mhays wrote:What about wilted salads or salads like goma-ae, then?

Two days ago, I inadvertently ate two large bunches of steamed kale in one sitting. It's definitely about the negative space for me.

I sincerely appreciate happy_stomach’s efforts to direct this discussion more toward something I like (art) and away from something I dislike (salad).

However, I am learning that there are ways to defeat the bothersome negative space of a leafy salad.

The Wife and I were invited by daveandrews3 to have dinner at Fifty/50 last night. Our first course was a salad, which usually makes my heart sink*, but The Wife had a few bites and said it was really good, and as her palate is much better than mine, I took a deep breath and tried some. I like the combination of feta and olives with almost anything (pizza, omelets, sandwiches, etc.), so that was helpful, but what also helped this salad a lot was the chopped leaf.



Chopped leaf salads remedy the sloppiness factor (it’s easier to get mouth-sized forkfuls when everything is in little pieces). Chopped leaves are also easier to pick up; a maddening aspect of many leaf salads is that it’s too challenging (at least for me) to pierce the leaf with a fork, resulting in much futile stabbing and leaves dropped off mid-way to the mouth leaving me gaping awkwardly.

So, though I am far from being a salad lover, if I must eat it, I would prefer it – like liver for toast or eggs for caviar – chopped as finely as possible.

*Not only because it’s, you know, salad, but because it’s coming first. Salad for me and for purely physiological reasons should come at the end of a meal. I thought I recalled that this was the way I used to have it in France, but on our recent trip to that part of the world, the salad came at the beginning of the meal, too.

See now, that salad looks perfectly edible. The perfect segue between martinis and steak time!

David Hammond wrote:...
Chopped leaf salads remedy the sloppiness factor (it’s easier to get mouth-sized forkfuls when everything is in little pieces). Chopped leaves are also easier to pick up; a maddening aspect of many leaf salads is that it’s too challenging (at least for me) to pierce the leaf with a fork, resulting in much futile stabbing and leaves dropped off mid-way to the mouth leaving me gaping awkwardly.

Interesting thought. If you follow the function of "leaf size" versus "happiness" you'll get a couple of peaks, at least in my mind.

There's something very enjoyable about the "Iceberg Wedge" (especially with a Roquefort dressing, but hey, I could say that about well-used shoe leather). There, it's expected to be a fork-and-knife event, making the whole thing like a big steak or cake. Simple, clean... but in my mind just not much finesse on the kitchen's part.

A small-chopped salad, such as Maggiano's Chopped, with small pieces of red onion, leaves, and toasted prosciutto, is another ideal. (I don't know if that's still their formula, but it's one I've liked in the past).

A couple of data points to either side of the second one, both from Steak 'n' Shake (why am I ordering a salad? only to cut down on french fry consumption. If I liked their shoestring fries more, I probably wouldn't be able to provide this analysis). In past year, SnS would have a salad with whole slices of cuke, tomato and green pepper. Absolutely impossible to navigate, annoying unless you took a knife to it, and then you're still likely to spill things. They've since switched to having diced garnishes -- matchstick dice of cuke, cabbage, tomato, etc. While it hides the pale pink pastiness of winter tomatoes, it is small enough that keeping such things on the fork is equally annoying to the old-style salad.

You probably need a factor similar to the Italian condimenti for pasta: The shape and the dressing should match. A fine-diced salad with a creamy dressing will end up looking like a cheese ball, a large-cut salad with a thin vinagrette ends up with a puddle.

I'm about to go fix up a (leftover roast) chicken salad with napa, soy-pickled shiitakes, diced cuke, pickled ginger and maybe some cherry tomatoes.

Yes. Chopped leaves, textural contrast (roasted lima beans or nuts, or some sort of crunchiness that does not stem from a vegetable), SALT, pickled red onion if appropriate, enough dressing to coat but not pool in the bottom of the vessel, hopefully cheese . . . I have to eat them all the time too, and it's hard not to hate.

One of Jeffrey Steingarten's books has a chapter on his distate for salads. I found it quite a liberating read. I still eat a salad once in a while, but I don't feel guilty about often not wanting one.

Why ARE you eating salad daily, if they give you no joy? They're not that good for you. Lettuce isn't known for its nutritional punch. There are a lot of other, more appetizing ways to eat vegetables.

David Hammond wrote:Chopped leaf salads remedy the sloppiness factor (it’s easier to get mouth-sized forkfuls when everything is in little pieces).

I agree but also one of my favorite restaurant salads is Graham Elliot's Caesar for the opposite reason. The GE salad lets me cut the lettuce to the bite size I want. Toward the top, most leafy part of the stem, I cut smaller pieces to more eat more daintily. Toward the bottom, more solid end, I can cut larger pieces since they are easier to fork and consume.

happy_stomach wrote:

David Hammond wrote:Chopped leaf salads remedy the sloppiness factor (it’s easier to get mouth-sized forkfuls when everything is in little pieces).

I agree but also one of my favorite restaurant salads is Graham Elliot's Caesar for the opposite reason. The GE salad lets me cut the lettuce to the bite size I want. Toward the top, most leafy part of the stem, I cut smaller pieces to more eat more daintily. Toward the bottom, more solid end, I can cut larger pieces since they are easier to fork and consume.

That is one hilarious salad.

Early this morning, I was reading in a pre-release copy of "Life, on the Line" that Achatz was excited by the "culinary joke" of using small sheets of potato-starch paper (purchased by Curtis Duffy in Chinatown) to make very, very small pizzas. He's tickled by "the visual pun of a tiny, tiny stamp of food." He later puts the micro-pizza on the head of a pin in a large bowl...because it's funny. When did food get funny? I like it, but it seems that although witty combinations are probably very old, the attempt to inject humor into food is a post-modern phenom.

Side note: Achatz's kids' names follow the Rule of K: Kadon and Keller

Lunch by joelfinkle, on Flickr
Chicken salad with napa, grape tomatoes, David Chang's pickled shiitakes and pickled mustard seeds, cucumber, grape tomatoes, pickled ginger and walnuts. Dressing is just pickling liquid from the shiitakes and a drizzle of sesame oil.

Not so stupid: pretty low in fat (although not salt with three pickled ingredients), very tasty way of adding several servings of veg to my daily diet without any loss of joy.

David Hammond wrote:That is one hilarious salad.

Apparently, other hilarious salads:
Women Laughing Alone With Salad
Men Laughing Alone With Fruit Salad

happy_stomach wrote:Apparently, other hilarious salads:
Women Laughing Alone With Salad

Who knew salad was this orgasmically hilarious???
If I was that transported, I'm sure I would be eating it at least every day....