riddlemay wrote:An even more telling question might be, If all the Xoco signage from Xoco were removed, and replaced with Cemitas Puebla signage, would I like the place better than I like it when I believe it to be Xoco? Separately, believing this to be a Cemitas Puebla I had walked into, would I conclude from the food I ate in the River North location that Cemitas Puebla had stepped up its game from the North Ave. location, or would my taste buds tell me that the food in the River North location was a step down?

Trick question. The answer is neither. No one who has ever been to or eaten at Cemitas would ever confuse Xoco with Cemitas.

queequeg's_steak wrote:Wow ... so many GNR discussions seem to center on issues other than the food ... I hate to say it folks, but fetishizing the obscure, the ethnic, and--especially--the "authentic" smacks of elitism and worse. ... The mistake is that while these characteristics have value as hueristics--i.e. as a decision mechanism to sort among numerous restaurant choices--they don't have substantive value when evaluating a restaurant's product.

I agree.

I've enjoyed reading the discussion on this thread and I've been content to let the nomination speak for itself. But as the nominator of both Xoco and Cemitas Puebla, I do feel compelled to chime in here briefly. I love both of them; I'm glad I don't have to choose one or the other. The fact that there's room for both to thrive here in Chicago is a source of civic pride for me.

I respect the dissenters of Xoco's nomination, and I anticipated their arguments when I posted it. I think that what it boils down to, as queequeg's_steak articulated well, is that the quality of Xoco's food trumps whatever misgivings I may have about it as a typical GNR. To me, the food (caldos especially) is eyes-roll-back-in-my-head delicious. Conversely, while much of the dissent here has focused on the non-food details, the dissenters seem uniformly underwhelmed by the food they've had there, which is a perfectly legitimate reason for opposing Xoco as a GNR.

This is peasant fare, after all, and the perfect, meaty chunks of chicken breast seemed too fancy - I would have preferred some bone, some fat, some skin, some parts.

You really want them to leave the bones in the soup? For authenticity?

tapler wrote:But as the nominator of both Xoco and Cemitas Puebla . . .

To me personally, this statement says more than just about anything else in the GNR discussion of Xoco.

=R=

I will say that that's one thing that makes Bayless, Inc. GNR-y: the guy clearly loves Chicago as much as he loves Mexico, and as high-profile he may be, I can't think of him as any less of a local-centric guy. He's out and about exploring, praising and enjoying what the city has to offer as much as any of us - well, as much as some of us! - and if tourists or whomever throng to his restaurants, I feel at heart it's still us he wants to serve - the locals, the regulars. And I bet even an ego like Bayless would be humbly honored to be discussed in the same sentence as Cemitas Pueblas or any number of back-room taco joints or Maxwell Street stands. At least in public.

I really don't have anything to contribute to the ongoing GNR discussion. I just wanted to say that I went to Xoco for my first time on Friday evening, after seeing a show at the Goodman, and I loved it!

Since I had gastric bypass surgery in November, I've been trying to get good meals that have lots of protein that I can enjoy both then and there, as well as give me the option of taking home for reheating the next day. On Friday, I ordered the Pepito (sparerib meat sandwich with onions and habaneros) and split an Aztec hot chocolate with a few friends. When they brought it out, all I had to do was ask for a knife and fork, and then I opened up the sandwich and ate half of the meat. Just fabulous--tasty, and if I ate it by itself without the habanero, not spicy at all. The other half I took home and had cold for breakfast the next day, and it was still delicious! And the hot chocolate was so wonderfully chocolatey without being overly rich. We had moved tables midway through our meal, so they couldn't find us when they tried to deliver our chocolate, so when we flagged the waitress down, she brought out an extra pot of chocolate as an apology for the delay. However, the freebie was their Mexico City chocolate, and it was like drinking an ultra-rich truffle--great for a sip or two, but any more was way too much. The Aztec was much lighter and easier to drink (I had about a third of half a cup, and that was plenty for me.)

I'm definitely looking forward to going there again sometime soon, and trying another sandwich (soups and salads are no longer an option for me, unfortunately!).

I'm not sure how anyone can say Xoco is a chain restaurant. There isn't another Xoco, is there?

Lots of companies own a variety of restaurants (e.g. Blackbird/Publican etc, as many have mentioned). If you disqualify it on that, then you have to omit Girl & Goat (Boka Group), Gilt Bar/Maude's, and on and on and on.

Do you really want to go down that road?

DutchMuse wrote:I'm not sure how anyone can say Xoco is a chain restaurant. There isn't another Xoco, is there?

There isn't another restaurant flying the Xoco flag, but as I mentioned upthread, Tortas Frontera at O'Hare (with another location on the way), is basically a stripped-down Xoco with all but one of its sandwiches identical to those at Xoco.

As someone who spends a lot of time at O'Hare, I'm happy about this, but it's hard to see it as anything other than the beginnings of a chain (whether they share the Xoco name or not).

-Dan

Sharpie66 wrote:I really don't have anything to contribute to the ongoing GNR discussion. I just wanted to say that I went to Xoco for my first time on Friday evening, after seeing a show at the Goodman, and I loved it!

Your post was the perfect GNR contribution, you expressed your view in no uncertain terms, talked specifically about the food, Pepito, hot chocolate and the Aztec, and even gave us a bit of personal history. A terrific post, thanks.

Myself, I'm a fan of Xoco really enjoy torta ahogada and pibil love the fact they don't wimp out on the habanero heat in the pibil salsa. Churros are best I've had, including fresh from the fryer on Maxwell Street, and I like the quick paced high energy big city feel. The fact Bayless is successful with national acclaim has no bearing either way on my GNR support.

Xoco, count me a fan!

Enjoy,
Gary

stevez wrote:

jesteinf wrote:La Pasadita is a chain.

It wasn't at the time the GNR was awarded.

Two brief clarifications:

1. If you count the 3 La Pasaditas at Ashland and Division, it was a chain. Not sure if that is relevant or not, other than that I am fine with a chain being a GNR, such as La Quebrada or Lao Sze Chuan.

2. I support Xoco as a GNR. The food is very good, buzz enjoyable, service warm and welcoming.

I do not think there actually is very much difference of opinion about what Xoco is, but rather if we want a place like that in our (Great) neighborhood. Since I never had much patience for the NIMBY set, count me as a supporter. Chains are not evil, per se, and if Rick can succeed in his apparent mission to lift up fast food in America just a little bit, and I think the evidence is that has achieved that, it is a wonderful bonus. In any case, I will be quite pleased the next time I stop at Xoco.

dicksond wrote:I do not think there actually is very much difference of opinion about what Xoco is, but rather if we want a place like that in our (Great) neighborhood. Since ....

While it's admittedly difficult to sort through the 10 pages of discussion here, I would not at all characterize it as you have above. I see lots of comments from people who use words like "great," "fantastic," "best I've ever had," and lots of others from people who use words like "fine," "pretty good," and "not the best". Putting aside opinions about what types of places should be GNR's, the opinions expressed here about the food are quite mixed.

This pretty interesting thread seems to skip back and forth among several worthy and related questions, without ever quite stopping to ackowledge and sort them out. These seem to me to be:
1. Defining a GNR: since we confer that status on restaurants, we ought to be able to get a bit closer than the porn analogy.
1a. Can a chain restaurant also be a GNR?
1b. What (how many?) makes a chain restaurant?
2. How good is the food at Xoco?

My personal, visceral feeling, is that the phrase "neighborhood restaurant" suggests something unique to the neighborhood and something which is not available in virtually identical form in many other places.
At the same time, it seems perfectly plausible that say, a franchise place of some type, run by a great franchisee with all sorts of dedication and personality, could become a real neighborhood hub and go-to spot for various reasons and, thereby, achieve GNR-ness, even with thousands of similar joints dotting the landscape. 'Tis a taxonomic puzzlement.

As to what defines a chain, I haven't the foggiest idea of how to reasonably set that bar.
As to how good is the food at Xoco, I have already committed myself upthread.

I was doing some work at the Fire District Station on Illinois and Clark, and decided to catch breakfast at XOCO. I love champurrado, had it from street vendors all over the city, as well as making it myself, and wanted to try Ricks' version. I have to say that this is the best in the city! Since he is importing, roasting, and grinding his own cocoa beans, he really nails the intense cocoa flavor on every one of his chocolate drinks. Even the chocolate shot I ordered with the churro was incredibly decadent.

I ordered the Wood Oven Baked Chilaquilles. It was very flavorful and satisfying, but way, way too small to be served as a breakfast for a hungryman! The cazuela you see below only measures 4 X 7". ("Hey! This ain't an appetizer!") It is a far cry from what I am used to as a Mexican breakfast, which are usually large, and accompanied by arroz y frijoles! $7.50. Total tab $13.95.

Churro with a chocolate shot, and a cup of Champurrado


Wood oven baked Chilaquilles

I'm not at all a breakfast-sandwich guy, but having confined myself to Xoco's excellent churros and chocolate for breakfast for some time after having been somewhat underwhelmed by a couple of other items on the menu, a deep hunger impelled me to give the chorizo/egg/avocado torta a try. Well, I'm not going to go thru 10 pages of discussion to see if anyone else has ever mentioned this, but this torta may in fact be one of Chicago's better sandwiches and has single-handedly convinced me that a breakfast-sandwich may indeed have a raison d'etre.

Went there again today and felt (again) it was just mediocre. Not great and not terrible, but sort of just ok. Its near me and I was tired of my usual places so thought it would be a nice change of pace. I left thinking to myself "I don't have to go back there anytime soon." Again, not bad, just....

DutchMuse wrote:Went there again today and felt (again) it was just mediocre. Not great and not terrible, but sort of just ok. Its near me and I was tired of my usual places so thought it would be a nice change of pace. I left thinking to myself "I don't have to go back there anytime soon." Again, not bad, just....

I had pretty much the same opinion of the place for at least the first year it existed, but on my last visit I tried the carnitas caldo...that soup blew me away.

I tried the Cochinita Pibil Torta a month ago at Rick's, and mheahhh, just OK. I am spoiled by Xni Pec, in Brookfield. Antonio's family has it as perfect and authentic as it should be, (and I've had it in the Yucatan!). Also had it at Chuck's in Burbank...not likin' his version because he uses his smoked pork , which doesn't make sense when you need to taste the achiote seasoning, and not smoke.

There was a woman in line in front of us, who was from San Francisco, and told us that her son in Brooklyn had urged her to go to Xoco today. She was making conversation with us as we waited in the line and we chatted about the food, etc. She was clearly excited to be there, and although we didn't want to rain on her parade, as we talked about many of the nice food items at Xoco, she became a bit bothered by the waiting in line, etc. I found myself whispering to her, with somewhat of a smile in my voice, that she'd probably have a better meal in Pilson (she is a Chicago native but has lived in SF 35 years, so she knew what Pilson is).

I'm going to a book reading at 7:00 tonight at Madison and Dearborn, taking the train down. If we get to Xoco around 5, would we be able to get in and out in an hour - hour and 1/2? If not, what would be close to either Willis Tower or Madison and Dearborn that would be a comparable price tag? If the choice is between cost and great food, we'll take the great food.

I think you should be OK at Xoco, but I've never been exactly at 5:00. There is nothing of significant interest near the other two locations you mentioned. Maybe Gage on Michigan Avenue, but that's not real close....Beard Papa for cream puffs

I've never been at 5pm. But my guess is that you'll be fine. I met a friend for breakfast there at 9:30am one morning. I expected it to be packed and planned my schedule around a long wait. There were three other people eating when we arrive; no one in line. So my guess is that off hours are not that bad.

My folks recently went to Xoco on a Friday at 5 PM and there was no wait. Enjoy!

Love,
John

I've frequently been between 5-5:45 on a weeknight; maybe not a Friday, but even so, I've never had to wait more than 5 minutes at that time. I would guess that you could be in and out in 30 minutes pretty easily.

great, thank you!!

I suspect that between 5pm and 6pm, most people are trying to get into Frontera for dinner and XOCO (temporarily) flies under the radar. I could be completely wrong.

Also, XOCO has set up their outdoor seating so that may reduce some of the wait times, even if it's only another dozen seats or so.

I noticed they replaced the Barcelona hot chocolate with the Mexico City (champurrado). I was wondering if anyone who has had both can tell me are similar/different they are? THANKS

I had a terrific carnitas caldo the other week. It was flavorful and very satisfying. I am not normally a dumpling in soup person, but the potato masa dumplings were terrific!

I don't know if this is a new thing, but Xoco's already complicated seating/food-delivery process has taken another turn.

Here was the process today:

1. Come at 5 PM and asked if I am eating in or taking out.
2. Responded I am eating in and handed a menu and told to go to the cash register. I am also told a table number that I am supposed to remember.
3. Order my food and am asked by the cashier for the table number.
4. Approach a hostess to get seated (no discussion of table number).
5. Because I am given no physical number to put beside me, I am then approached by bus boys two separate times trying to deliver me someone else's food.
6. Finally, my food is delivered correctly.

There were enough quirks for a carnival already in this process. I'm not sure why they did away with the physical cards with numbers on them. Whether this is new or not, they still seem to be working the kinks out.

As for the food, the choriqueso was fine if you like a messy sandwich with a cheese to chorizo ratio of about 5:1. I don't and I didn't. Chorizo flavor did not come across. What flavor there was came from roasted poblanos and a too-small side of green (tomatillo?) salsa. This was a one-timer.

gastro gnome wrote:I don't know if this is a new thing, but Xoco's already complicated seating/food-delivery process has taken another turn.

Here was the process today:

1. Come at 5 PM and asked if I am eating in or taking out.
2. Responded I am eating in and handed a menu and told to go to the cash register. I am also told a table number that I am supposed to remember.
3. Order my food and am asked by the cashier for the table number.
4. Approach a hostess to get seated (no discussion of table number).
5. Because I am given no physical number to put beside me, I am then approached by bus boys two separate times trying to deliver me someone else's food.
6. Finally, my food is delivered correctly.

There were enough quirks for a carnival already in this process. I'm not sure why they did away with the physical cards with numbers on them. Whether this is new or not, they still seem to be working the kinks out.

As for the food, the choriqueso was fine if you like a messy sandwich with a cheese to chorizo ratio of about 5:1. I don't and I didn't. Chorizo flavor did not come across. What flavor there was came from roasted poblanos and a too-small side of green (tomatillo?) salsa. This was a one-timer.

I was under the assumtion that the seat or table itself was numbered given the fact there was no card and I was taken what seemed a very specific seat.