Cooking School Advice

I am interested in entering the Culinary Industry and my area of interest is Catering/Specialty Food Store owner. I was wondering if there is someone who can tell me their experience in this area. Pros/Cons.

Also if there is anyone who can give advice on cooking schools. I am thinking about enrolling in Cooking and Hospitality Institute of Chicago.

Thanks,

Amy

I can't really reply to the first part of your post on speciality food stores, but I would take a look at Kendall College over CHIC.

I work at a restaurant and when job applicants send in resumes our chefs pay much more attention to the Kendall graduates over the CHIC graduates. They seem to feel that Kendall has a better program and from what I've heard the teachers are well experienced.

Also, many chefs I know never go to culinary school. They learn by doing and working in the field which lets you know early on if it's for you or not.

Good luck to you where ever you decide to go and do!

Might I direct you to this article about culinary school debt and how worthless a degree from one can be.

I totally agree! The gap between the cost of culinary school and what you will probalby be earning working in a restaurant kitchen is immense. You have to pay your dues in the kitchen no matter what your background.

Many chefs I know feel that the best educational value comes from getting out there and actually working in the field. Culinary school is not always the way to go and there are many talented and successful chefs that never went to school that prove that.

Whatever the case, if food is your passion, you will find a way to make it work for you.

A culinary degree may not get you a high paying job right off the bat, but they aren't necessarily worthless. Not all schools are created equal, either. The really good ones can give you a top notch culinary education, and more refined skills than what you could hone at most restaurants.

I'd say both Culinary Institutes of America(in NY and California), and Kendall, are some of the best in the country(CIA being better than Kendall). They seem to offer more than most culinary schools, and take what they do very seriously. If you've ever seen graduates of the CIA cook, you can tell. Their skills are at another level compared to most other cooks, and they come out with sooo much food and cooking knowledge. Both schools also offer prestigious internships nationwide and abroad.

I plan to attend Kendall, for what they call the 2+2 program. You complete 2 years of culinary arts, for the associate of culinary arts degree, and 2 years of hospitality management, to end up with a bachelor's degree in Hospitality management. Your training and degree qualify you to work in a wide range of positions, and also prepare you to run your own small business, if that's what you want.

Culinary School is not something to take on lightly, because it is so expensive. But if you are sure that you want to do it, are passionate about the learning aspect and not just in it to possibly increase your wages, then don't let the cost be the deciding factor. Especially if you have access to a truely excellent school.

It really helps to have some restaurant cooking experience before-hand, so you know what industry you are getting yourself into.

Contessa18 wrote:I am interested in entering the Culinary Industry and my area of interest is Catering/Specialty Food Store owner. I was wondering if there is someone who can tell me their experience in this area. Pros/Cons.
Amy

First, while I generally don't send people to that "other" board, I will say that they have had several good threads on the pros and cons of cooking schools.

When I entered the industry, there were relatively few cooking schools. Most of the people I worked with had a LOT of kitchen experience in restaurants and or the military. For ten years, I ran the kitchens of a number of hospitals - patient food, cafeteria, catering, vending - the whole works. Then I moved on to another profession to better provide for my family.

My first piece of advice is to get a lot of experience BEFORE applying to any cooking school. You need to work in a busy commercial kitchen for at least a year to determine whether you can work in that environment. Most kitchens that I have worked in are a cool mix of artists, ex-cons, ex-sailors, with a sprinkling of malcontents and truly good people to make it interesting. You learn to deal with the people who come in high, who curse in 20-30 different languages and the like. In other words, you better be able to deal with a number of different people from diverse backgrounds. I spent three years of my career before I ever managed a caucasian employee. No kidding. And if you work in Chicago, you letter learn Spanish.

My experience before graduating from college and getting my first professional position was working four years as a carhop at a Frisch's Big Boy (here I come on the run with a burger on a bun). I replaced a Johnston and Wales graduate who was completely overwhelmed in a large kitchen. Here the guy spends four years studying to get into the industry and doesn't last six months. Last time I heard he went back to New England and was selling insurance.

I am a CPA by trade and I tend to think a little bit differently than when I was younger. Personally, I see too many people dumping $25-40k or more at a "1st rate" to get a $15 an hour job. And when I have helped my other CPA friends who manage country clubs locate young chefs, that seems to be about the going rate in Chicagoland. (In all fairness, I wouldn't spend $75-100k to get a law degree to make $40 in a public defender's office, either).

To put it simply, you better know what you are getting into before you make a huge investment of time or effort. Personally, I would prefer to see a person work a few jobs with a decent chef to make sure they have a constitution that will allow them to thive in the industry.

There is a whole lot of difference between preparing a chicken at the culinary program at the Art Institute of Chicago (and spending an HOUR on a single bird) and doing the preparing a chicken breast dish for 700 people in a banquet.

I don't want to appear negative about the industry. It financed seven years of college education with no student loans. Every time I post on this subject, I get a couple of nasty e-mails. However, I want you to have a realistic view of what you are getting into.

Thank you all for sharing your experience. I have been considering this career change for many years and I love the article that was posted above. This is the only place that I have been able to get honest advice. I tried to get information from CHIC but I seem to be hounded about how I am not getting any younger and I should join the school today.

That really turned me off from even having a conversation with the school.

Maybe cooking should be a hobby and I'll just stick to being a production artist.

Side note...I was watching Hell's Kitchen last night and I was reminded of the article that Fujisan posted. This idea that becoming a chef is a glamorous job and can make you famous instantly by going on a Top Chef or Hell's Kitchen type of show. Let's just say I would never put myself on one of those shows. Hell's Kitchen is just plain ridiculous.

I'd also suggest working in the same category - if not very establishment - to which you aspire. If you want your own catering/specialty food store, then get an entry level job at one first. Everything you'll do at the very bottom as an employee are what you'll also need to do at some point as an owner - and then some. Some career changers do very well - but like anything, it's always hard work.

i'm a graduate of CHIC ('95), but that was before it was purchased, and then purchased again, i believe, so i can't speak to what the experience is like now.

but i do currently work in the industry here in chicago and i can attest to the fact that the graduates that i'm seeing coming out of CHIC are *weak*. they are not prepared for what this industry requires of them.

CHIC has the reputation currently as being a financial aid mill. they sell people dreams, get them to take out loans, take their money, and then simply do not prepare them by giving them the tools they will need to realize those dreams.

granted, the experience didn't really do that when i attended either, but back then it cost about 20% of what it currently costs.

i agree with what's been posted here. before spending big money on a culinary school, go work in the industry in the kind of establishment that you're interested in someday running and get a feel for what it's like.

Contessa18 wrote: I tried to get information from CHIC but I seem to be hounded about how I am not getting any younger and I should join the school today.

Colonel Sanders founded Kentucky Fried Chicken at age 63. I doubt if your THAT old. And when I retire in a few years at 53, I plan to return to the kitchen in some role.

Whenever ANYONE gives you the hard sell that "you MUST do it now", run in the opposite direction ... quickly.

I just have to say that if you take it seriously and work hard you get what you pay for. At Kendall you can learn EVERYTHING you want to learn if you go after it. The Chefs at Kendall are simply amazing and I enjoy every minute of it. Yes, I am spending an astounding amount on my education...but to me education is priceless. I'll have my loans payed off eventually and have an education that most would envy. Please check into Kendall if you're serious about it.

PS: Please message me if you have any questions/comments about Kendall.

PS: Please message me if you have any questions/comments about Kendall.

We'd prefer the dialogue was on board so everyone can learn.

Regards,

FWIW, I just toured Kendall and am working on setting up a link with the non-profit I fundraise for in connection with Kendall. Their staff and facilities are excellent. I was offered the opportunity to attend, though I politely declined as their hospitality management program was focused in a different direction than my career is going.

My best advice after having been to CHIC, looking in on the Kendall program and attending the French Pastry School is not to go to school but to work in the industry for a few months to get a really good feel. About 80% of culinary graduates leave the field after working in it for a year or less. That is a lot of money that went into the garbage. This is a tough field, the work exhausting, the pay low and crappy hours. I have been in this field long enough to tell you that. Get some experience under your belt before going to culinary school. Most of the teachers in these schools off the record will recommend that, the students who have experience do better in school and understand the speeds that will be required of them, which most culinary students are clueless about.email me if you have any further questions.

Actually I think the stat is that 90% of culinary school grads leave restaurant kitchens/professional kitchens within 5 years of graduating. One of the admissions directors at my old school told me that when we were talking about what people did after school.

The 80% stat seems a little high and most people I went to culinary school with (NECI, Vermont) cooked for at least 2 years before they started dropping out.

I second Louisa and the others who suggested that you work before you take the plunge. It is very expensive...and very hard to pay off at most just-graduated-from-culinary-school salaries.

I am considering pursuing a certificate program at a Chicago culinary school (Kendall or CHIC). Does anyone have any opinions/tips/advice they could give me? I'm looking into a future career as a personal chef or doing in home catering.

Thanks so much!

Emyduck,

Hi, my name is Jeff Tobin and I work in admissions at Kendall. Based on your screen name, I may already have met you, but if not, I would be happy to answer any questions about your career goals, your background, and our program.

emyduck wrote:I am considering pursuing a certificate program at a Chicago culinary school (Kendall or CHIC). Does anyone have any opinions/tips/advice they could give me? I'm looking into a future career as a personal chef or doing in home catering.

You mean, other than reading the above?

Seriously, the good part of the restaurant/food service industry is that the barriers of entry are not there. For example, in many professions like pharmacy or engineering, you need to be close to a degree to get any quality experience. By that time, you have invested 2-3 years of college, which is not cheap.

In this business, you can get hired at a number of fine restaurants with little experience. Go out and work at a half dozen restaurants or catering operations before heading off to school.

Personally, I would also recommend a short stint at a McDonald's. You can learn one subject there that is invaluable - food service sanitation - because they are one of the best.

jlawrence01 wrote:

emyduck wrote:I am considering pursuing a certificate program at a Chicago culinary school (Kendall or CHIC). Does anyone have any opinions/tips/advice they could give me? I'm looking into a future career as a personal chef or doing in home catering.

You mean, other than reading the above?

I think emyduck originally posted a new thread and the moderators moved it to the end of this one.

chicagogrrl wrote:I totally agree! The gap between the cost of culinary school and what you will probalby be earning working in a restaurant kitchen is immense. You have to pay your dues in the kitchen no matter what your background.

Many chefs I know feel that the best educational value comes from getting out there and actually working in the field. Culinary school is not always the way to go and there are many talented and successful chefs that never went to school that prove that.

Whatever the case, if food is your passion, you will find a way to make it work for you.

I will have to agree to that as well. I don't agree that it's "worthless", since any degree looks good on a resume and education is a wonderful thing, but experience trumps a degree when it comes to landing a job. Also, don't do what I did and just jump in. Make sure you live and breathe this life, because when you go on interviews and they offer you $8 per hour when you have $50G in debt hanging over your head, you'll wish you researched how little you get paid, how much you'll work your ass off, and how much more you'll learn in the field than in the classroom. Sorry, I don't mean to get preachy. For the best of both worlds, maybe work at places that pique your interest the most and are in the field you desire to work in most, and take classes here and there on the side.

I went to CHIC and it was alright. Kendall is considerably more expensive, but seemed very nice when I toured there. I believe the Institute of Art costs about the same and was my second choice. I picked CHIC because it was smaller and condensed into one self-contained building instead of spread out among different floors in an office high-rise.

Good luck to you!

I went to NECI in the mid 90's. I thought for my money it was the best school. It totally immersed you in the life that you would have - cooking for a living. Small class size and hands on experience were my biggest sticking points. 7 students to 1 chef that operated working kitchens for paying customers. It was a total sink or swim situation (they have changed this the past few years for the better or that's what I have been told). This is much different than say CIA where there is about 2 to 3 times the students to chef ratio. If you've even seen the "Cooking at the CIA" show, you get the idea.

I worked for a year in a bakery/catering operation before I applied to school for experience and to see if I liked cooking. This was a big help but there were other students that had much more on the line experience than me, but there were also people that had never picked up a knife.

There are very few people that I went to school with that are still cooking to this day. Hell I own a wine shop (I like to think that this is a natural extension of my cooking days) but you can't beat the info that you learn at school. Cooking is a field that the more you put into it the better you and your food will be.

Kendall is actually cheaper than CHIC. Overall, the instructors are more experienced and accomplished. The curriculum is current and is constantly being improved and is more focused. The class sizes are considerably smaller. Oh, and they offer electives so you can explore what you're interested in. It's a no brainer. Visit the schools, though so you can make an educated choice. And ask what their placement rates are and average pay following graduation. Legally, they have to supply that information.

I would echo the other comments suggesting you work before entering school and while in school if you can. Plus, you will get from your education what you're willing to put into it.

I agree with the general consensus of 'try working in a job as similar as possible to the one you want before going to school.' I went to Kendall a few years ago (graduated in 02.) I didn't really work much in the industry before school, so I didn't have a solid idea what to expect afterward. Once I had a real job, I didn't last long though. I loved the cooking part of it and still miss working in a professional kitchen. But between (long and late) hours that didn't let me see any of my friends (or my finace) and pretty low pay, for me that outweighed loving the work . All in all, I still love cooking and I learned a lot at school, but it was a pretty hefty investment to give me a hobby I'm quite good at.

I do definitely recommend Kendall though. It's a great school and all the chefs there are passionate about both cooking and sharing their knowledge.

What are some of the best culinary schools in Chicago? Especially for those not wanting a four year degree program. Thanks for your help. I see posts about Kendall and CHIC but what about some of the other ones.

As an update, another avenue is the junior college route. I attended the pastry arts program at the College of DuPage in the 90's. The campus has a new state of the art facility. You can get some basic training at junior college prices before entering the food business. If you still enjoy it after working, either continue at the junior college or go to one of the other schools mentioned. As I recall, Elgin CC had a decent program as well.

Ms. Ingie wrote:As an update, another avenue is the junior college route. I attended the pastry arts program at the College of DuPage in the 90's. The campus has a new state of the art facility. You can get some basic training at junior college prices before entering the food business. If you still enjoy it after working, either continue at the junior college or go to one of the other schools mentioned. As I recall, Elgin CC had a decent program as well.

For that matter, so does McHenry County College:
http://www.mchenry.edu/culinary/index.asp

And the College of Lake County:
http://www.clcillinois.edu/programs/hcm/

And the Milwaukee Area Technical College:
http://www.matc.edu/student/offerings/2 ... gement.cfm

I do hear that College of Dupage has a good program and is less expensive. My son's friend went there but did not complete it and has a job at a restaurant now. Another person I know graduated from CIA and dropped out of cooking after a few years...you have to be tempermentally inclined to the business, and you do not get to make what you want unless you own the place. That upsets a lot of people from serious cooking schools. My son's roomate now works at the Purple Pig in the kitchen and he did not even go to culinary school. He went to Columbia for something else. I do not know how he got the job. Maybe a good way would be to take a few course and also work at a restaurant where you will get good training. If you are a student at a school you will have more credibility to get your foot in the door to get a job. You can keep taking classes if you want but if you find you are doing okay without them, you can stop and then you will not have a lot of debt. Get on the job training.

Hi,

Joliet's Community College is supposed to have the best program in the region. I have heard this from several sources who if they had to begin again today would high tail it to Joliet.

I know some of the people who run the College of DuPage's cooking school, it is also very well thought of.

I attend Washburne's annual scholarship dinner every May. Their teaching kitchens are very well equipped, because recently retired Dean Bill Reynolds, who came directly from the CIA, designed them. This is the oldest continuously operating cooking school in Chicago with alumni everywhere.

Regards,

I haven't been out to Joliet to visit their campus but I know Tim Bucci is over there and well-respected in his field. He's a great teacher and worked at CHIC when we worked there years ago. They're supposed to be opening a new downtown campus due to the demand.

I visited Elgin CC and Washburne and the facilities in both were amazing and at a fraction of the cost of some of the schools I used to work for throughout the 2000's. As easy as it is to say to enroll in the community colleges, you still need to be a resident within that area.

jtobin625 wrote:As easy as it is to say to enroll in the community colleges, you still need to be a resident within that area.

Many have out-of-area tuitions. If the community college does not offer what another does, there are (were) some tuition assistance or reciprocity.

Some friends are in the wind farm business in Lee County. I heard the local community college had planned* specialized instruction on operating and maintaining wind generators. I learned community colleges love this specialization because it brings students from outside their region and state. This is great for their reputation and bottom line.

*I've never checked if these plans were ever realized.

Regards,