Well, if you are truly torn then one of each seems like a great option.

theskinnyduck wrote:

Vitesse98 wrote:So anyone else notice if the price has crept up a bit for this menu? A friend got a two-top with drink pairing for a Friday night at 6:30 or so for Paris, and the same for Thailand, but the Thai bill was about $50 higher.

IIRC from Nick: The range of price is the same, the average price is cheaper, the beverage price is slightly higher (depending on the pairing),

Food: 70 to 115
Pairing: 0 for water, 38 for non-alcoholic, 58 for beverage pairing, I don't remember wine pairing
Sale Tax: roughly 11%
Service Charge: 18%

From what I saw yesterday, the overall price range may have been the same, but the distribution was different, resulting in fewer bargain timeslots:

Paris:

9 pm on Sunday was $70

Thailand:

9:15 pm on Sunday was $85
9:45 pm on Sunday was $75

Also adding to the cost was a change in the total price calculation:

Paris:

+ Food Price x Guests
+ Drink Pairing Price x Guests
+ Tax (11% on the Food & Drink total)
+ Service Charge (18% on the Food & Drink total)
= Grand Total

Thailand:

+ Food Price x Guests
+ Drink Pairing Price x Guests
+ Service Charge (18% on the Food & Drink total)
+ Tax (11% on the Food & Drink & Service Charge total)
= Grand Total

So they tax you on the gratuity?

turkob wrote:So they tax you on the gratuity?

Yes, this is how my bill was calculated.

I believe the law in Illinois states that service charges are not taxable if all of that money is turned over to employees, as are standard, optional tips. But service charges that are basically general revenue for the restaurant (which is used to pay salary, food costs, etc.) are subject to sales taxes.

Yep, that's how they are doing it this time. ((Food + drink) + 18% service charge) x 11% tax.

I believe that this is a change from how Next:Paris was billed.

--Rich

IF that is so, it may be kosher and I have absolutely no question that their intentions are the best, but I gotta say I don't like it. (No, you didn't see it stop me from booking a table and no, it wouldn't have even if I knew that going in. Still, don't like it.)


(edited to add a "no" in front of "question")

Gypsy Boy wrote:IF that is so, it may be kosher and I have absolutely question that their intentions are the best, but I gotta say I don't like it. (No, you didn't see it stop me from booking a table and no, it wouldn't have even if I knew that going in. Still, don't like it.)

It isn't about their intentions, it's about what the law requires.

Think of it as the old system but with a 20 percent sales tax instead of 18. The money is the same from the diners' point of view. And then remind yourself that if you buy a ticket at face value, you are getting a nice gift from Grant and Nick because they would have sold out at a much higher price point.

And then remind yourself that if you buy a ticket at face value, you are getting a nice gift from Grant and Nick because they would have sold out at a much higher price point.

I understand that America has transformed into a perverse oligarchy with a greater disparity of wealth and privilege than even some countries once famous for that, but anyone that considers dining at this price point generosity on the part of Next surely needs to adjust perspective.

Vitesse98 wrote:

And then remind yourself that if you buy a ticket at face value, you are getting a nice gift from Grant and Nick because they would have sold out at a much higher price point.

I understand that America has transformed into a perverse oligarchy with a greater disparity of wealth and privilege than even some countries once famous for that, but anyone that considers dining at this price point generosity on the part of Next surely needs to adjust perspective.

I have to concur that I'm missing the point of the gift comment, but I also think that despite the price point, there's a lot of value in dining at Alinea/Next. Of all the restaurants I've ever eaten at, I think back to that one meal at Alinea the most. I'm not sure I can put a price on it.

I value my meal at Alinea very highly, too, and think back on it often, maybe every day, for myriad challenging reasons, from a culinary standpoint but from a moral/ethical one as well. In terms of sheer economic terms, of dollars, it came dangerously close to doing for me what visiting a slaughterhouse does for future vegetarians. Next wasn't nearly that bad, if only because Alinea makes every other restaurant seem like a bargain, even when they're not.

How much are memories worth? Would you trade ten meals that you forget for one that you remember every day?

I remember lots of things every day, good and bad. Meals are the least of them, and few are zero-sum interchangeable.

Even if they did raise prices, so what? Restaurants do it all the time, especially after being open for a few months (Quartino was an absolute steal when they first opened).

If you don't like it, just don't go.

If you don't like it, just don't go.

We have a winner!

Darren72 wrote:

turkob wrote:So they tax you on the gratuity?

Yes, this is how my bill was calculated.

I believe the law in Illinois states that service charges are not taxable if all of that money is turned over to employees, as are standard, optional tips. But service charges that are basically general revenue for the restaurant (which is used to pay salary, food costs, etc.) are subject to sales taxes.

RAB wrote:Yep, that's how they are doing it this time. ((Food + drink) + 18% service charge) x 11% tax.

I believe that this is a change from how Next:Paris was billed.

--Rich

Uhm, just some third graders math: It doesn't matter if they tax you first and add the service charge, or add the service charge then tax you.

Price x 1.18 (tip) x 1.11 (tax) = Price x 1.11 (tax) x 1.18 (tip)

What's the problem here?

The difference is they're applying the tax to the post-service charge amount rather than the pre-service charge total. The 11% tax is being applied to a higher number (rather than just the straight food/drink price).

theskinnyduck wrote:
Uhm, just some third graders math: It doesn't matter if they tax you first and add the service charge, or add the service charge then tax you.

Price x 1.18 (tip) x 1.11 (tax) = Price x 1.11 (tax) x 1.18 (tip)

What's the problem here?

Have the school board fire your third grade teacher if he or she is still alive. If you have kids, hire someone to help them with their homework.

theskinnyduck wrote:Uhm, just some third graders math: It doesn't matter if they tax you first and add the service charge, or add the service charge then tax you.

Price x 1.18 (tip) x 1.11 (tax) = Price x 1.11 (tax) x 1.18 (tip)

What's the problem here?

The point is simply that for the Paris run, tax and service charge were each calculated based on the price. That is:
Price + (Price x .18) + (Price x .11)

For this run, tax is being calculated on the post-service charge subtotal. That is:
Price x 1.18 x 1.11

See the difference?
--Rich

edit: Also, what Josh said.

RAB wrote:The point is simply that for the Paris run, tax and service charge were each calculated based on the price. That is:
Price + (Price x .18) + (Price x .11)

For this run, tax is being calculated on the post-service charge subtotal. That is:
Price x 1.18 x 1.11

Ah, this makes sense

Kennyz wrote:Have the school board fire your third grade teacher if he or she is still alive. If you have kids, hire someone to help them with their homework.

This is not helpful. Thanks but no thanks.

At this point I'm about ready to throw down $1,000 for two tickets on the secondary market to get Ronnie in the restaurant and some godamn pictures to liven up this thread.

theskinnyduck wrote:

Kennyz wrote:Have the school board fire your third grade teacher if he or she is still alive. If you have kids, hire someone to help them with their homework.

This is not helpful. Thanks but no thanks.

I'm available if you change your mind.

Habibi wrote:At this point I'm about ready to throw down $1,000 for two tickets on the secondary market to get Ronnie in the restaurant and some godamn pictures to liven up this thread.

First day of service (not counting the test run):

Habibi wrote:At this point I'm about ready to throw down $1,000 for two tickets on the secondary market to get Ronnie in the restaurant and some godamn pictures to liven up this thread.

Hopefully he can post them in the other dedicated Next thread, and this one can disappear into the void...

And hopefully he can get in on that Kitchen Table that REB posted about earlier. I'd chip in

LOL! I was unable to score my own table during the online sale. Fortunately, I've received invites from a few generous LTHers and will be going in mid-August with Gypsy Boy (thanks! ), if not earlier. I wish I could have joined REB and RAB at the KT this Friday but I have a family commitment...yeah, I still love my son more than Next.

Nice pics, tsd. Thanks, for posting them.

Fwiw, I saw chef Beran at another eatery late last night (he managed to escape before I could beg him for a table) and he appeared calm, cool and collected.

=R=

Just returned home from a booze filled evening at the Aviary and Next. Don't have too many pictures to upload at the moment, but I would like report on the extra condiments that one can equest off menu.

Aside from the three condiments presented originally, after asking we were presented with a green chile condiment which had some heat to it. It wasn't overpowering heat as it gave enough heat to feel it, but you could taste the chile in it. It was accompanied by a fish sauce condiment. Where as one of the three original condiments was like. Shrimp paste on the sweeter side, the fish sauce was deliciously on the more salty side. Like a salty version of Filipino bagoong. My girlfriend and I enjoyed the condiments so much, they had givenus multiple refills of the jasmine rice.

The server was impresssed by our love of the funk, they brought two more condiments to try. One was a thick tamarind paste, and another which had anchovy in it to give jit a funky salty taste, and while I can't remember what else was in it, both of us agreed it took us back to eating in the Philippines, where we have some similar condiments. My girlfriend was moved almost to tears as a few curses brought her back to her youth in the Philippines, where they also served soda in plastic bags.

We came away overstuffed from this menu, and it was definitely different than Paris. We both tried to hold this dinner in a different light than Paris 1906 as we were accustomed to the food and flavors.

In my opinion, it is a hit. If I wasn't a bit buzzed, i'd elaborate more on each dish. Perhaps later if I add pictures... But for me, while one can get similar dishes at many of the fine thai places in the city, few do it on the level of execution as Next. The question one has to ask is 'is it worh it to experience thai food that can be had elsewhere?' For me, the answer after tonight is a definite yes!


To note.. What I observed on the first night. After the street food, we were supposed to get some towels to wipe our hands, but nonw came to our table. Not a big deal as I attributed it to first (real) night execution jitters, and think that with all kinks in a new service, they will be dealt with in time.

Also, the dragon fruit was not overpowered by the rose as someone mentioned, and the beef curry was not overly salty as previously mentioned. For me the texture of the raw shrim was a bit much for my liking, but others may not be bothered. Again, it's a personal texture preference thing... Nothing wrong with the dish.

Also, for me, the gin was too strong to be paired with the dragonfruit. But it may have been that I reached my limit food and booze wise. I really didn't want more to drink, and the desserts were just light enough to tip the scales into full blown stuffed status.

I had tried to secure a ticket for later on the season to see how they work out some of the kinks, but eventually had to get what I could take, and it turned out great,

So great in fact, that we nixed our attempt to get into the Office. We had asked at the Aviary,prior to dinner and again at the start of service at Next, but by the end, I was so sauced and full, Just couldn't do it... Oh well... The last venue still eludes me. But hitting alinea, Aviary, and Next in a week isn't too shabby.

Time to end this boozy post with a kudos to the chefs and team at both Next and Aviary, for making it an enjoyable experience. We could't have had a better evening. Best of luck to them and i'm sure the menu and execution will be refined as the 'season' progresses.

Vitesse98 wrote:

And then remind yourself that if you buy a ticket at face value, you are getting a nice gift from Grant and Nick because they would have sold out at a much higher price point.

I understand that America has transformed into a perverse oligarchy with a greater disparity of wealth and privilege than even some countries once famous for that, but anyone that considers dining at this price point generosity on the part of Next surely needs to adjust perspective.

By "anyone" I presume you are referring to me.

Let me rephrase: I bought a cup of coffee yesterday for $2. I would have paid $3 for it, but that wasn't the posted price. The extra dollar that I would have paid, but didn't have to, represents part of my surplus from the transaction. You can think of it as my profit.

Now, despite the fact that I would have paid $3 for that cup of coffee, it is fairly obvious why the coffee shop doesn't charge $3 for coffee: while they wouldn't lose me as a customer (I am loyal and they are located close to my house), they would lose many other customers. The extra dollars they get from me and others who continue to patronize the shop will be more than offset by lost revenue from customers who go to a different coffee shop.

Let's think about Next: They reported that they sold 2000 tables but have something like 18,000 people registered and trying to buy tickets (you can quibble with the numbers, but that isn't the point). Suppose they raised the price of the each table by $10. Some people might decide not to buy tickets anymore. But Next would surely still sell out. I think that is fairly obvious. Next gave us a reason why they didn't charge as much as they could have, but their reason is besides the point. The point is that they made a decision not to charge as much as the market will bear. So I was able to buy a table for $80 per seat instead of $90. That extra $10 per seat is my gain; my profit, if you will. If you don't like the term "gift," fine. But you should be able to understand the point I was trying to make.

I hope my meal at Next is memorable. My memories of the meal are mainly going to be based on the food, atmosphere, etc, and are not influenced by whether the table $80 or $90 per person. But the price certainly figures into how I view the value that I got from the meal.

My wife and I ate at a two-star Michelin restaurant in the Champagne region a few years ago. It was among the most formal and expensive meals I've ever had. Some of the courses were excellent. Others were simply terrible. My guess is that this place does not do many "covers" a night because, while the room is very large, there weren't that many tables. Each table had a lot of space around it. Plus, you had the table for the whole night. I suspect that this restaurant is full most nights and they are charging as much money as the market will bear. I would have been much better off (and might even consider returning) if they charged less than what the market would bear.

I went to the effort of getting a table mostly because I have out of town guests who are interested. I'm happy to go and have no doubt I will enjoy it, but the whole process of having to check on the facebook feed etc. was a lot more trouble than I would otherwise have been willing to go through. I will also say that they could do a significantly better job of communicating information. E.g., apparently there is an option to change/upgrade your drink pairing when you arrive at the restaurant, subject to availability. But I don't think that's explained anywhere on the FAQ type information on the restaurant web site or the facebook page. You have to read through endless posts on their facebook wall to glean that and other tidbits. I realize I could probably find out by calling, but given the setup, I'd really think they'd take the effort to post answers to any questions that are in fact frequently asked, which is subject to easy empirical verification. (Their facebook wall is currently mobbed by people trying to trade reservations that booked for the wrong or inconvenient nights because everyone was so frantic is trying to book any reservation at all.)

Darren72 wrote:The point is that they made a decision not to charge as much as the market will bear. So I was able to buy a table for $80 per seat instead of $90. That extra $10 per seat is my gain; my profit, if you will. If you don't like the term "gift," fine. But you should be able to understand the point I was trying to make.

"Gift" really is an odd choice of wording. Also, the price that would have cleared the current market is almost certainly much higher than the profit-maximizing price for the long run. The discussion would move toward whether the prices people pay are absurd, and the scrutiny on whether the experience is "worth" $200 or $250 per person would be tough and, I think, harmful to their long-run prospects. Much better to have buzz over everyone going to tremendous lengths to get tickets.

The choice of the word "gift" was meant figuratively. I didn't realize my word choice had to be as dry and literal as legal contract.

In any case, having picked up the phone over a thousand times in my life to call a restaurant, I think it is strange -- odd, if you will -- that you dismiss calling them and expect things from Next's website that you wouldn't expect from any other site. I realize Next's model is different. But every restaurant receives questions, yet few have FAQ's on their site. Next does. They don't happen to answer your question, which I suppose means it hasn't been asked frequently enough...or they just haven't gotten to it.

FWIW, I've emailed them questions and they've been pretty good about getting back to me with answers.

My point really was that Next is trying a new business model, which I like in many ways (or would it if wasn't quite so mobbed). It would seem much more efficient to post answers to questions that are clearly frequently asked. On their facebook info page they say "We have been receiving hundreds of emails everyday asking many of the questions below. Rather than replying to everyone personally we will try to aggregate the answers in this email." I just think it's not that hard to have someone make their info page and FAQ more complete. I didn't mean to suggest that the information was not obtainable through calling or emailing (although they probably could not have responded quickly to lots of people emailing or calling the day of the ticket sale), just that it would have been more efficient (and I think in keeping with their business model) to have published it. Mostly, I'm probably annoyed at having to read the inane facebook chatter.

On the drink pairings, I do think they should consider some system of allowing people to change pairings up until some period (e.g. a week or two) before the reservation. Perhaps that would give them enough time for them to plan, while giving customers a little more flexibility. Maybe it's too difficult logistically, but just a thought/suggestion.