Santander wrote:For any community members on the dating scene, do you put favorite foods (or the fact that you're a "foodie," localvore, online food enthusiast, etc.) in your profiles or initial conversations?
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I would wager that with the increasing diversity and consciousness of food and food sources, there is more to talk about now at the dinner table (still a primary medium for dates) than twenty years ago, and I wonder how much that has changed dating, and for that matter, relationships.

I have in the past tried usually to say something like I'm "really into" food, but--from my experience--apparently all single men in my date-able range claim to be, too. Winning so easily at that game (and coming off as kind of extreme in my enthusiasm compared to whoever my foodie date) got old, so now my tendency is to wait and then only slowly disclose my food obsessions. This may not be the most honest (or successful) approach, but I've found it amusing to see the range of food enthusiasm (and to be reminded again and again that I am pretty far to one side of the spectrum).

If anything, I think I come across initially as someone who knows very little about food since I do not watch TV and am not versed at all on food shows and competitions. I recently listened to someone who claimed to be a big Stephanie Izard fan recount excitedly a moment from the Top Chef season she won. That conversation ended abruptly when I responded by first saying that my knowledge of Chef is limited (which it is compared to my knowledge of chefs I follow closely) and then by sharing my thoughts on the evolution and demise of Scylla and the strategy of the Wandering Goat dinners. He had no idea what I was talking about (but, to be fair, I've never seen a single episode of Top Chef).

On the dating scene, I take the same approach with disclosing my interest in art, which, Matt, I imagine you might understand given our shared training as art historians. There are lots of people interested in "art" and "museums" and "culture." That means very different things for different people even though it may initially be a point of connection.

In general I think I'm just an overzealous type (I am an overzealous type), which has likely more influenced my approaches to dating than specifically my food enthusiasm and food's place in popular culture at this moment in history. I actually don't give a hoot if my date is interested in food or art. Zeal is more important.

I know I couldn't stand being in a relationship with someone who would not eat fruits and/or vegetables. I've known a number of people like this. More men than women. I had a friends family at my house for the holidays and her grown sons would not eat any thing other than plain turkey and mashed potatoes, no gravy, no vegetables, no salad, nothing else. They did not like anything. So they would not have to be a foodie type but they would at least have to enjoy a wide variety of foods.

As I wonder how's it's going with the new boyfriend after a few weeks....

He keeps on suggesting we go to Red Lobster as if that were some kind of special treat. Then last night he wants to go out for steak, and knowing he's not loaded, I ask about how much money he wants to spend.

He says $12. I suggested we go to the grocery store. He said that's too much bother.

Well, we ended up at Chili's and they do have a $12 steak. I got a burger that actually was pretty good, he ended up with fajita's which he didn't finish.

I admit, I haven't been to Red Lobster since high school. Mom and I went to see "if it was any good" and thought it was pretty bad.

So - should I give Red Lobster another try? Are there places to go for $12 steaks? Should I stick with this guy hoping to give him a culinary education?

Sorry this is a bit of a rant. I hope it's at least somewhat funny to some of you. I didn't want to post under Eating Out because I didn't think the tone was quite appropriate for there...

Nancy

Nancy S wrote:As I wonder how's it's going with the new boyfriend after a few weeks....

He keeps on suggesting we go to Red Lobster as if that were some kind of special treat. Then last night he wants to go out for steak, and knowing he's not loaded, I ask about how much money he wants to spend.

He says $12. I suggested we go to the grocery store. He said that's too much bother.

Well, we ended up at Chili's and they do have a $12 steak. I got a burger that actually was pretty good, he ended up with fajita's which he didn't finish.

I admit, I haven't been to Red Lobster since high school. Mom and I went to see "if it was any good" and thought it was pretty bad.

So - should I give Red Lobster another try? Are there places to go for $12 steaks? Should I stick with this guy hoping to give him a culinary education?

Sorry this is a bit of a rant. I hope it's at least somewhat funny to some of you. I didn't want to post under Eating Out because I didn't think the tone was quite appropriate for there...

Nancy

I've been there. It's tough to know where to draw the line.

One example when I clearly drew the line (and he was on the other side):
1. On our first date, he told me he'd never eaten Chinese food...yet he'd lived in Chicago his entire life and was a firefighter. (Methinks stirfry probably makes frequent appearances on the firehouse menu.) How can you have never eaten Chinese food?
2. On our second date, we went to an Italian restaurant of my choosing. The waitress mentioned they were out of mussels. His response, "I think mussels are slugs." Um, no, but OK. He then proceeded to order a Caesar salad, hold the dressing, and picked off the slices of parmesan. In other words, he ate romaine lettuce and croutons.

...I knew this wasn't a man who would wake up on a Saturday morning and suggest we head to dim sum in Chinatown for breakfast, so the second date was the last.

Another example (where the line was a lot less clear): He told me he enjoyed good food & mentioned some great Chicago restaurants that he adored. My type of guy! But when it came time to suggesting restaurants for our dates, they were decidedly mediocre. Not Red Lobster bad, but places that are boring examples of Americanized ethnic food with a lot of Sysco-heavy offerings, in neighborhoods where you could probably throw a rock & hit a far better example of the same cuisine.

It can be easy to get discouraged when you're first getting to know a potential romantic partner, but I think you have to avoid rushing to judgment (in most cases). I have a couple ex-boyfriends who are now foodies, and have told me that they saw my love of food & cooking, then got hooked. Still, it's tough to date someone who sees no qualitative reason to eat anything other than *&^%.

Athenian Room skirt steak dinner: $14
Tango sur vacio $13
Tango sur churrasco $12

Those prices might be a little out of date, but should be close.

Check out Thoughts On Value Steak for more ideas.

The problem you're going to have is not that Chili's is the only place for a cheap steak, it's that your boyfriend has... bad taste in food. Or very limited exposure to the many better alternatives, and no interest in exploring those alternatives. But probably the former.

LOL...maybe there should be an LTH dating thread!

I think it really depends what you are used to and how much open he is to change. My boyfriend didnt care much about food when we frist started dating and most things with meat in it were good. Now, he is a very picky foodie who loves finding new places to eat and talking about food. He woke me up at 6 am one saturday so we could go to the farmers market early (but thats mostly due to Ad Hoc). Some time ago he called me after having made a Uturn to check out a bizarre restaurant which appeared to be offering baked truffles, to be disappointed in finding out that they were offering repairs for breaks and mufflers instead...

I think it's more a question of are you both willing to try what the other one likes? If your core values are similar, and there are things you enjoy doing together, and you're both able to find something on the same menu, then the eating will work itself out. On the other hand, if you're far apart in other areas too...

theskinnyduck wrote:Some time ago he called me after having made a Uturn to check out a bizarre restaurant which appeared to be offering baked truffles, to be disappointed in finding out that they were offering repairs for breaks and mufflers instead...

been there done that often when in new areas--often with a 20' cooking trailer in tow---swmbo just suggests looking for an optician!!

I don't see anything wrong with Red Lobster. Its not the greatest seafood but I have enjoyed eating there which I probably do about once a year. Its a chain and the food is predictable, designed and priced for the masses. Problem is really good seafood restaurants are pricey. Perhaps you can bring him along to more adventurous eating in time.

toria wrote:Perhaps you can bring him along to more adventurous eating in time.

Or not. You just have to decide what's important to you. The Chow Poodle and I have been together for over 25 years, but no one could ever accuse her of being an adventurous eater. Fortunately, there is more to our relationship than just eating and, aside from having to eat a meal that doesn't quite meet my culinary standards once in a while, she let's me do my own thing when to comes to food. Sometimes she'll accompany me, but most of the time she doesn't. We don't let it get in the way of our relationship. Luckily for me, I have many LTH dining companions that can fill in for her.

Food compatibility is important to me -- I met someone who had lived in Chicago all his life but had never eaten in a Greek diner and whose idea of cooking was opening a box of scalloped potatoes. He had no interest in learning anything else. I would talk to him about dinners I made and he thought it was a waste of time and money.

There were other incompatibilities..like the fact that he never picked up a book. But the food stuff really turned me off. I mean...how can you live in this town for 40 plus years and never eat in a Greek diner? How? HOW?

He probably thought Red Lobster was a night out on the town!

stevez wrote:

toria wrote:Perhaps you can bring him along to more adventurous eating in time.

Or not. You just have to decide what's important to you. The Chow Poodle and I have been together for over 25 years, but no one could ever accuse her of being an adventurous eater. Fortunately, there is more to our relationship than just eating and, aside from having to eat a meal that doesn't quite meet my culinary standards once in a while, she let's me do my own thing when to comes to food. Sometimes she'll accompany me, but most of the time she doesn't. We don't let it get in the way of our relationship. Luckily for me, I have many LTH dining companions that can fill in for her.

I thought about exactly this when I read today's posts in this thread. I remember an LTH holiday dinner at Sun Wah where we ate all sorts of Hong Kong-style delights, while The Chow Poodle ate plain noodles. However, I also remember her being a fantastic dinner companion for our table, and that she was a major contributor to the hours of fun & lively conversation we all enjoyed about (GASP!) predominantly non-food-related topics.

When all is said and done, if I enjoy someone's company, and that person refrains from making stupid comments about what I'm eating ("Eww! What IS that?!" and the like), then what they eat or don't eat doesn't affect me.

Khaopaat wrote:I thought about exactly this when I read today's posts in this thread. I remember an LTH holiday dinner at Sun Wah where we ate all sorts of Hong Kong-style delights, while The Chow Poodle ate plain noodles. However, I also remember her being a fantastic dinner companion for our table, and that she was a major contributor to the hours of fun & lively conversation we all enjoyed about (GASP!) predominantly non-food-related topics.

When all is said and done, if I enjoy someone's company, and that person refrains from making stupid comments about what I'm eating ("Eww! What IS that?!" and the like), then what they eat or don't eat doesn't affect me.

"She was a major contributor to the hours of fun & lively conversation..."

I think that's the key. I'm on Match, and in my profile I make it clear that I have a number of interests, including food, travel and volunteer work. But I also say while I'm not necessarily looking for a partner who shares all of my interests, I am looking for someone who accepts and supports them. Travel is a great example: I am on the road up to 5 months a year, all for fun. Most people can't get away that much, so I don't expect a boyfriend to take every trip with me. But if a man refused to go out of town for any vacation--and complained when I did--then that's not very supportive.

I haven't met The Chow Poodle, but it sounds as if she's the perfectly supportive partner, eve if food isn't a passion. And I'm sure stevez supports her interests that he might not share. It's a crucial ingredient to a happy, healthy relationship.

Nancy S wrote:As I wonder how's it's going with the new boyfriend after a few weeks....

He keeps on suggesting we go to Red Lobster as if that were some kind of special treat. Then last night he wants to go out for steak, and knowing he's not loaded, I ask about how much money he wants to spend.

He says $12. I suggested we go to the grocery store. He said that's too much bother.

Well, we ended up at Chili's and they do have a $12 steak. I got a burger that actually was pretty good, he ended up with fajita's which he didn't finish.

I admit, I haven't been to Red Lobster since high school. Mom and I went to see "if it was any good" and thought it was pretty bad.

So - should I give Red Lobster another try? Are there places to go for $12 steaks? Should I stick with this guy hoping to give him a culinary education?

Sorry this is a bit of a rant. I hope it's at least somewhat funny to some of you. I didn't want to post under Eating Out because I didn't think the tone was quite appropriate for there...

Nancy

To me it's less about the restaurant and more about a willingness to try new things. You can find a number of cuisine options in Chicago where $12 will feed you very well (Indian, Middle Eastern, Mexican, Polish, to name a few). To me, needing the familiarity of a chain doesn't bode well for having an adventurous spirit. It's true (and sad) that there are Subways and KFCs in most European capitals (and even outlying areas), but should you find an occasion to travel together it's nice to have a companion who's willing to take a chance every now and then.

stevez wrote:

toria wrote:Perhaps you can bring him along to more adventurous eating in time.

Or not. You just have to decide what's important to you. The Chow Poodle and I have been together for over 25 years, but no one could ever accuse her of being an adventurous eater. Fortunately, there is more to our relationship than just eating and, aside from having to eat a meal that doesn't quite meet my culinary standards once in a while, she let's me do my own thing when to comes to food. Sometimes she'll accompany me, but most of the time she doesn't. We don't let it get in the way of our relationship. Luckily for me, I have many LTH dining companions that can fill in for her.

What he said (sub "her" for "him"). I'd guess there are more than a few people who joined the LTH community for that very reason!

What is a chowist? Is it one who is interested in food like a foodie or is it one who reads and posts on Chowhound and is interested in food?

stevez wrote:

toria wrote:Perhaps you can bring him along to more adventurous eating in time.

Or not. You just have to decide what's important to you. The Chow Poodle and I have been together for over 25 years, but no one could ever accuse her of being an adventurous eater. Fortunately, there is more to our relationship than just eating and, aside from having to eat a meal that doesn't quite meet my culinary standards once in a while, she let's me do my own thing when to comes to food. Sometimes she'll accompany me, but most of the time she doesn't. We don't let it get in the way of our relationship. Luckily for me, I have many LTH dining companions that can fill in for her.

Hits the nail on the head. I'd drafted a lengthy response yesterday but, by the time I hit "submit," the thread had disappeared, to be merged into this one. And there was no way to retrieve what I wrote. However, in a nutshell, I said much of what stevez did here and think his comments are exactly on point.

Khaopaat wrote:When all is said and done, if I enjoy someone's company, and that person refrains from making stupid comments about what I'm eating ("Eww! What IS that?!" and the like), then what they eat or don't eat doesn't affect me.

This is the key, though. I am blessed with a partner who is Practically Perfect in Every Way, and fortunately don't have to worry on that front. However, when dining with either of our families, the looks of disgust at perfectly ordinary food - food you could order the microwaved analogue of at Chili's or Red Lobster - drive me up a tree. I cannot understand the lectures I get from parents on both sides about the good value of TGIFriday's "excellent" steaks in comparison to the looks of palpable discomfort when eating at any of the places Gleam mentioned.

That would be a dealbreaker to me in a partner. So, it's not so much being invited to Chili's...it's whether that person looks forward to his or her first visit to Chinatown (or wherever) as an adventure or with trepidation and disgust.

I do think that investing time into educating your partner pays dividends. My counterpart the Kitty has come a LONG way in the past few years. Foie gras, raw eggs, and more exotic Asian ingredients are now items that are craved instead of being scary... (I suppose growing up in South Dakota will do that to you)

Hi,

If my darling niece Elizabeth saw anything suggesting salad or related greens, she would object. A scattering of onions in her wonton noodle soup would cause her to reject it. I carefully skimmed them away, then she tentatively ate it expecting something green under every noodle. Taco Bell tacos has to be hardshell, cheese only and nothing else. The cook who melted her cheese caused her to cry, which was embarassing because I know he was well meaning.

Elizabeth is all grown up with a boyfriend who is a foodie. On his first visit to Chicago, he was at Al's Italian Beef, Jim's Original for a Polish and Mario's for Italian without my offering any ideas.

He not only cooks, he even has a smoker. What impresses our family is how he has had Elizabeth try a very wide range of food. There are regular reports on new foods tried. Her Mother and sister were shocked to learn she has now eaten salad with salad dressing!

I recollected recently a friend had suggested Elizabeth would change her food aversions once she had a boyfriend. Whatever it took to move her off the finnicky list is fine with me.

Regards,

I didn't peruse this thread before since I'm no longer dating, but I see now input is coming in from married and long-time-partnered folks as well, so I thought I'd chime in.

I'm married to a very picky eater (dang, I wish I'd thought of assigning that name to my DH before someone else did). You may know him from comments I've made on the subject of "things my dog will eat with me that my husband won't."

It is no surprise to me that my stepchildren are all similarly picky eaters, but that's a different topic, and possibly due to cultural, generational, and/or socioeconomic differences, in addition to habits acquired from their parents. I grew up in a large family with little money, of Depression-era parents, where "what do you have a taste for?" was a question about dinner that a child was asked one time a year, on his or her birthday. (On such auspicious occasions, the allowable answers were Burger King whoppers, pizza, spaghetti, or Swiss steak. Think how many Burger King whoppers you have to buy to satisfy seven teenagers. The less demanding, more guilt-ridden among us would ask for the spaghetti or Swiss steak, and look forward to the birthday of one of the more demanding ones when we could get Burger King or pizza.) Suffice it to say my stepchildren get asked the "what do you have a taste for?" question, and control the family's dinner choices, far more often. Having a child refuse to eat what you put in front of him or her, and (watching your spouse) obligingly trotting off to make something else, and then something else, and then something else, until finally the child gets what he or she wanted to eat (most often, chicken nuggets and barbecue sauce), while $30 or more in food has been wasted, is for me, well, behavior from a strange and faraway world with which I cannot identify at all. But anyone who has stepchildren knows there is a lot of biting one's tongue involved.

Back to the adults in the room, though. This is occasionally, and currently, a source of frustration and mystification for me. Others tell me that outside my presence my DH brags about me, that I am a good cook (his ex apparently was not; he survived off the cooking skills of his MIL), as well as an adventurous one, willing to try just about any recipe, and capable of creating all sorts of good things to eat. But when he's tired and grouchy at the end of a long, hard, physical work day, his enthusiasm for my adventurousness in cooking is low to nil, and he can be painfully unappreciative of my efforts. Just today I spent more than 5 hours making a deep dish pizza that, despite my painstaking adherence to the recipe's time and temperature instructions, nonetheless turned out somewhat overcooked. I view that as part of the process of mastering a dish; he views that as ruining one dinner and who knows how many more to come. Times like this, I decide to fall back on Manwich and Hamburger Helper and pork chops and spaghetti sauce and fried chicken for a while, with which at least I know I will get no grousing.

Back in college, I knew and often went out to eat with a married couple who talked about food, commented on their own dishes, traded tastes, and commented on each other's menu choices, to a degree that at the time I found annoying, because I wasn't into food at all at the time. Looking back now, though, I see it was an element of compatibility between them that nourished their bond. It may well have helped hold them together despite incompatibilities and tensions in areas of which I was aware, and others of which I was not. They're still married more than 20 years later.

As most couples learn eventually, and as stevez put it earlier, you don't have to be compatible in everything to be happy together. You just have to learn how to handle the incompatibilities in ways that don't cause stress and discord. I've only been married a few years and I'm still on that learning curve. Sometimes I just have to make the coq au vin or cassoulet or chicken biryani or spring rolls or satay for myself, and save the leftovers for my solo lunch, so I don't mind yet another Manwich night.

After just reading the whole thread, I forwarded the link to my husband who is by now so used to getting random lth.forum links through the day. I am not sure what percent of it he reads, at least I never heard a complaint.

I always loved food, anything about it. I started cooking family dinners probably at age 10. But over time, especially after moving to this country, I had a lot more chance to explore and learn and experience different food. My husband is coming from a very meat and potato (“frozen hash brown soaking in orange fake cheese gu” ) kind of family. Basically a farmer family where they needed to eat fast and get back to work. So for him, eating is not a pleasurable event that you take your time and savor the bites. Well, I want to believe it used to be.. And after 8+ years together, we both stepped up our interest in food; relative to what we used to be. So I am still far ahead of him but he accompanied me to all sorts of places, tried everything I tried. Nowadays, being the geek he is, learning every single detail available on woks on internet since I asked for a good one for my birthday

So, as many others mentioned above, it is all about how much you are willing to support each other in their interests. It doesn’t mean becoming your partner, just being there for them. So I root for Packers when they are playing

aka "afaust's husband."

afaust is right...I am a Neanderthal. I grew up on a farm in Wisconsin so dinner was normally one of the 10 things that my mom cooked regularly and it was normally made from things that we grew or raised so there wasn't a lot of room for experimenting. As kids we scarfed down food so quickly we barley talked at the dinner table. Afaust grew up in a country where the average person spends more time cooking than any other country (http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/offbeat/report-americans-are-worlds-least-enthusiastic-chefs-25-ncx-2011412); so sometimes we have a tough time relating with each other as to the importance of food.

After the better part of a decade I have learned good food and new restaurants have a heavy correlation with our household happiness. Trying new restaurants is a small price for me to pay when it comes to marital bliss. And on the plus side I get to indulge my inner geek...so with that said...here is what I have learned about woks:

1. Carbon Steel is the Best
2. 2 ply is better than 1
3. Hand Hammered or Ring Formed beats the other processes
4. Season the thing yourself...it isn't supposed to be that hard...and the worst thing that can happen is your house will go up in smoke.

If anyone can poke a hole in my wok buying guide...please let me know. Otherwise afaust is going to get the wrong wok for her birthday next month.

Hi,

To accompany your wok gift, Grace Young has two excellent books: Breath of a Wok and Stir Frying to the Sky's Edge. She even has a website.

When she visited Culinary Historians last year, she commented on her wok in a podcast here: http://www.wbez.org/story/stir-frying-s ... edge-87405 (She sounds emotional occasionally in this talk, because she was worried for her ill Mother.)

I know she favors a 14-inch wok with two handles and a flat bottom for American kitchens. I have seen carbon steel woks of her preferred type for around $35 in Chinatown.

Grace has adapted her wok technique to work in the American kitchen. I suggest obtaining her books first to understand her position on woks, then buy it. All her recipes are gauged to work on a 14 inch wok. I was impressed, because she experimented on how much Chinese vegetables (I think it was pea shoots) could cook correctly in this wok. She cooked at 24-, 16-, 12- and 8-ounces, before settling on 12-ounces. If you are an engineer, as I suspect you are, you will appreciate that type of fine tuning.

I am glad LTH contributes to your marital bliss.

Regards,

Megan McArdle at Bloomberg View recently wrote about the transformation of her husband from a picky eater to one who can be more adventurous than she is.

"…it was the culmination of a long process, one that I wasn’t ever sure was going to work out. And since I know that there are probably other people out there trapped in the tragedy of a foodie-picky relationship, it seems worth sharing how it happened."

--
edc