Ziggy, don't feel so bad, there were only a handful of 35 dollar per person tickets and those went extremely quickly. Most of the tables were priced similar to the Paris menu.

Late night ticket announce exclusively via Facebook is certainly one way to cut down on overloading the system. But at least now we know that the concept of making good food accessible to the masses is total BS. Personally, I feel guilt every time I open the paper for what I paid for Alinea - I had a great meal and understand its appeal - but something about this place rubs me even wronger. People who are working, people who don't spend most of their waking hours on Facebook, they're being largely cut out of this scheme. The fact that this menu marks the height of first world whimsy only adds insult to injury.

I know, I know - cue the "if you don't like it, don't go" chorus. That's fair enough. But this is all still sort of egregiously silly. "We are the 1%" indeed.

FWIW, it wasn't announced on Facebook. The ticketing system just quietly opened for business shortly before midnight.

And speaking only for myself, the reason I got in wasn't because I spend my life on Facebook, or because I don't work, or anything of that nature. It's because I participate in a community of people who love and write about food. I can't imagine a better reason than that.

Well, clearly I participate as well (and for the record, wasn't trying to get tickets). Just saying that by dealing exclusively via the internet in this hyped-up fashion, one automatically cuts out a huge chunk of society, from people working late, people without fast internet connections, people with no data plan on their phone, people without credit cards and yes, people not lurking on LTH (or an equivalent) after 10 on a Tuesday night. Or people without inside Next knowledge, for that matter. And that's all secondary to cost, which is not unique to Next.

I don't think there's anything wrong with people getting tickets, or being excited. I just find the whole process sort of distasteful. Like I said, egregious, something above and beyond being merely expensive or exclusive or whatever. Just one man's opinion.

Dmnkly wrote:FWIW, it wasn't announced on Facebook. The ticketing system just quietly opened for business shortly before midnight.

And speaking only for myself, the reason I got in wasn't because I spend my life on Facebook, or because I don't work, or anything of that nature. It's because I participate in a community of people who love and write about food. I can't imagine a better reason than that.

How is the facebook page saying, "Huge server stack, midnight release, captcha. Welcome to childhood. !!! Now for sale" not an announcement?

That FB thing came after the tix went on sale ... there was nothing on FB went I happened to find them available.

Vitesse - Instead of increasing the exclusivity of high end dining, I'd say Next decreases it by making access rather random (who happened to be looking at the right moment) and by offering multiple price options. As someone who can't afford Alinea, Tru, etc prices, the Next option makes it possible for me to treat my family to something quite special. Given that they could easily sell out with all tix at a much higher price point I appreciate that a lot ... and given the widespread access to at minimum web enabled phones, I sure don't see a digital divide here.

TCK wrote:

Dmnkly wrote:FWIW, it wasn't announced on Facebook. The ticketing system just quietly opened for business shortly before midnight.

And speaking only for myself, the reason I got in wasn't because I spend my life on Facebook, or because I don't work, or anything of that nature. It's because I participate in a community of people who love and write about food. I can't imagine a better reason than that.

How is the facebook page saying, "Huge server stack, midnight release, captcha. Welcome to childhood. !!! Now for sale" not an announcement?

Because it was posted about a half-hour after the fact?

I think one of the most ingenious aspects of this particular scheme is the illusion that it is somehow a bargain, let alone cheap. Sure ... compared to Alinea. And if you don't get pairings. And if you snag the cheap seats early. But a family treated to a night out at Next will not feel like they got a steal. Good meal, perhaps, but not a steal.

Also, I think this is a pretty self-slecting clientele here. The people with the money/time/wherewithal to go, sure, they (like I) all have internet access, luxury of stalking the website, etc.. But they/we represent a small minority in this country, albeit a minority more than big enough to fill Next several times over. Plus, did I read correctly of the number of out of town ticket purchases? Are all these people planning vacations to Chicago around this meal? I somehow doubt it. More power to the place for finding an astonishingly successful business model, but I'd suggest this model subverts democracy rather than enhancing it.

Fair enough, my facebook just says posted 9 hours ago so that could have been anytime between 12 and 1.

Although I still think the fact that they said tickets are on sale is an announcement, even if it wasn't before the fact, but I don't want to argue semantics

Either way, that meant the only way one knew was either by lurking on the Next site last night, lurking on Facebook last night, or getting a call/message from someone doing one of the above last night. To me, that's all more or less the same thing.

I'm just glad it's been verified that the 35 dollar tickets were priced correctly. Now that IS a bargain!

TCK wrote:Fair enough, my facebook just says posted 9 hours ago so that could have been anytime between 12 and 1.

Although I still think the fact that they said tickets are on sale is an announcement, even if it wasn't before the fact, but I don't want to argue semantics

Hover your cursor over the '9 hours ago' text and it will show it was at 12:26 AM.

Semantics aside, it can't be said that this surreptitious release wasn't quite a departure from the earlier events where they gave copious head's ups and frequently pushed back the release from a pre-arranged time, giving everyone plenty of time to prepare to flood the system. Opening up the system at an 'unannounced' time certainly raises different questions, but I think it's as fair a choice as any other.

Vitesse98 wrote:Also, I think this is a pretty self-slecting clientele here. The people with the money/time/wherewithal to go, sure, they (like I) all have internet access, luxury of stalking the website, etc.. But they/we represent a small minority in this country, albeit a minority more than big enough to fill Next several times over.

Isn't this true of all fine dining, though? I can see the argument that it's just as exclusive (albeit in a very different fashion), but I don't understand why it's more worthy of criticism than any fine dining restaurant in that regard. At least here, if you're really dedicated to stalking, you have a chance of snagging a table at $35 a seat. That's more than you can say for any other fine dining options in the city.

DrkDragon wrote:I'm just glad it's been verified that the 35 dollar tickets were priced correctly. Now that IS a bargain!

Where was that confirmed?

There's only so many seats the restaurant has, and as I understand it they hold back and release seats throughout the run. If they are selling out why do they have an obligation to try and make it more available beyond what they are already doing? Posting it on Facebook does make it pretty much world wide available.

Why should they make it cheaper? Do we know their pricing isn't totally in line with their costs plus the usual industry markup? There are plenty of restaurants you can go to that are good, and cheaper, that are fun, and easier to get into. Why should it be Next's responsibility to make fine dining available to the world?

It's like anything else, if you care that much about going, you do what it takes to make your best shot at getting in. Some people like fancy cars. They live cheaply in other areas and drive a spiffy car. Other people like clothes, or jewelry or having a highly decorated home. Some people like food and spend money on meals at Alinea and have 40-year old handed down sofas. We all make choices. Why do we have such a vested interest in denigrating the choices of other people?

I've never denigrated the choices of others. I do denigrate the alleged democracy of Next, which its proprietors have admitted was devised largely to ensure a more reliable revenue stream than Alinea provided.

At least here, if you're really dedicated to stalking, you have a chance of snagging a table at $35 a seat.

We're almost getting into the abstract realm of philosophy here, but I think the above is part of the illusion. I'd wager that the only people with the luxury of stalking for those cheap seats are those that can afford the expensive seats. And the difference between Next and other fine dining establishments is its unique model, which requires a lot of effort (relatively speaking) and which also requires several criteria many of us more fortunate maybe take for granted.

It reminds me of one of our local public schools, in the slightly nicer part of town, which I wanted to say started asking for money for field trips and the like by credit card, submitted online. Seems simple, right? Easier? But it totally overlooked those who didn't have/use credit cards, didn't have regular internet access, went hand to mouth each month and preferred checks to track spending, that sort of thing. It's not an apples to apples comparison, I know, but even something as simple as internet access is still related overwhelmingly in America to education/class/income.

clogoodie wrote:

DrkDragon wrote:I'm just glad it's been verified that the 35 dollar tickets were priced correctly. Now IS a bargain!

Where was that confirmed?

Right here

http://chicago.m.metromix.com/mobile/restaurants/article/preview-nexts-childhood-menu/2872315/content

I should say, like the shark in "Jaws," I do perversely admire this place. It's a machine!

Vitesse98 wrote:We're almost getting into the abstract realm of philosophy here, but I think the above is part of the illusion. I'd wager that the only people with the luxury of stalking for those cheap seats are those that can afford the expensive seats. And the difference between Next and other fine dining establishments is its unique model, which requires a lot of effort (relatively speaking) and which also requires several criteria many of us more fortunate maybe take for granted.

Setting aside the fact that I know this not to be the case on a personal basis (I have friends who snagged $35 seats last night who otherwise would never have been able to squeeze something like Next into their budget), and acknowledging that some take internet access as a given in many scenarios when they probably shouldn't, practically speaking, on the Venn diagram of "people in the U.S. without internet access at home" and "people in the U.S. who want to go to Next," how large do you believe the intersection really is?

I agree that any grand proclamations about how this is an amazing movement in the democratization of dining reservations are overblown. But I just don't understand the scorn, is all.

DrkDragon wrote:

clogoodie wrote:

DrkDragon wrote:I'm just glad it's been verified that the 35 dollar tickets were priced correctly. Now IS a bargain!

Where was that confirmed?

Right here

http://chicago.m.metromix.com/mobile/restaurants/article/preview-nexts-childhood-menu/2872315/content

The one time something that's too good to be true is actually true. I had $35 tables reserved multiple times, but never pulled the trigger as I was convinced it was erroneous pricing that would likely not be honored. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.

on the Venn diagram of "people in the U.S. without internet access at home" and "people in the U.S. who want to go to Next," how large do you believe the intersection really is?

Tiny, if at all. Which is sort of my point. Any scorn I reserve is tempered by taste, is all. It's not the fine dining model, it's this particular model, in its entirety, with all its facets and moving parts, each of which individually epitomizes a degree of exclusivity that, like I said, kind of rubs me the wrong way, for sometimes admittedly personal or hard to place reasons, but which taken en toto I find especially egregious. As the saying goes, your mileage may vary.

Vitesse98 wrote:

on the Venn diagram of "people in the U.S. without internet access at home" and "people in the U.S. who want to go to Next," how large do you believe the intersection really is?

Tiny, if at all. Which is sort of my point. Any scorn I reserve is tempered by taste, is all. It's not the fine dining model, it's this particular model, in its entirety, with all its facets and moving parts, each of which individually epitomizes a degree of exclusivity that, like I said, kind of rubs me the wrong way, for sometimes admittedly personal or hard to place reasons, but which taken en toto I find especially egregious. As the saying goes, your mileage may vary.

What exactly would you like the restaurant to do? There are only so many seats and every season only lasts for so long. Are they supposed to run each season until the place is empty, that way they know everyone who wants to eat there has already done so? Of course there's an element of exclusivity...how could there not be? It's inherent in the concept of the place.

But isn't the exclusivity unavoidable? Next can only control the manner in which people are disappointed. In some places, the people with more money get the limited supply. In some, the people with more connections do. Here, it's the people who are obsessed enough to watch the Internet like a hawk (or those who get lucky). If demand outstrips supply, something over which Next has no control, then isn't it going to be exclusive no matter what reservation system they have in place?

Next can only control the manner in which people are disappointed.

This is totally on the money. But as for hypothetical solutions, I suppose there are a few ideas I can think of (though they may affect the place's revenue a tad). One, throw in more cheap seats (but that's not going to happen). Two, stagger the release of the tickets, with the cheap seats snuck out first to reward lurkers and the more expensive seats announced a few days later, more formally. Three, yes, extend each menu, and this last I'd say not just to be more equitable but because in the case of both the Paris and Thailand menus, evidence points to a improvement in the food over the course of the menu, which makes the first couple of weeks of tables sort of guinea pigs. And then the whole process starts over again. Which can lead to another suggestion, which is to charge slightly less for the first couple of weeks but slightly more for the last few, and then throw in a couple of premium dishes for those that paid more at the end.

And it goes without saying that the "mad rush" model behooves no one. There are other models that work OK, many utilized by the concert industry for years, from randomized claim codes to member pre-sales. These are just spitballed ideas, obviously. It's not my restaurant, and I'm not in the biz. But they have a surprising degree of potential and flexibility as to what they can do or offer, assuming that money is not the only reason they're in this game.

EDIT: And while we're talking about it, I find the months-long wait for a table at Girl and the Goat much more onerous, and a lot less fun, but at least you can plan well in advance for that. Next also demands a certain flexibility, which adds to its demands.

If you think Next's reservations system is unfair, have you tried eating at any of the nation's most popular restaurants? How do you find it to be different? I don't. For example, most NY restaurants take reservations only 28 days in advance. What do you think the Open Table/phone rush is like every day for reservations 28 days out for restaurants like Eleven Madison, Brooklyn Fare, etc.? It's pretty competitive and sells out quickly.

Right now, Next's supply is outnumbered by demand. It wouldn't matter if Next opened up its reservations system at midnight and announced it on the news or via Amber Alert if they had enough seats to meet the demand. Then, in that perfect world, whenever you desired a table, you would have one. Besides, I find a certain egalitarianess in randomly selecting times to release their reservations -- if you work during the day, you were better positioned to land a table at Next this go-round.

If you think Next is frustrating, try navigating the black hole for ELideas. I filled out a form a long time ago seeking reservations in November. Instead of telling me whether or not they had a reservation in November, or December, or January, or whenever, I received no response, and instead, receive random emails for last minute tables that are snatched up immediately. I'd rather deal with Next -- or for that matter -- Schwa, any day over that system.

Edit: My only issue with Next is the operation of the site. When I made reservations for Thailand, I was stuck in calendar hell for 25 minutes, as the screen churned and churned. When I tried to make reservations for Childhood, the calendar made it appear that there were tables, but each "available" date I clicked on gave me the time spread for 10/22 -- which was clearly sold out.

Also, let's not pretend that Next is completely impossible (a la El Bulli) to get into. Yes, tickets that go on sale get snatched up pretty quickly. But, between people looking to sell on Facebook, the occasional table sale here, and same day tickets (also on FB) there are plenty of opportunities to go if you really want to.

That's true. Though I suppose, trying to focus in on what it is that bugs me, it's that illusion of equality (whether or not it affects me or not). There are any number of restaurants so hard to get into I don't even bother. There are nearly as many so expensive I don't even consider. Next, in theory, can be both affordable and attainable, but it makes it very difficult to align those two desirable traits. Which is sort of a tease to those without the means to circumvent the various obstacles. Which is to say, Alinea's accessibility is rarified. Next's is almost ... sadistic. Though I'm sure a less strong word would be preferable.

(I need to stress, regularly, I'm sure, that I have already been to Next and don't need to go back - this is all academic to me).

Vitesse98 wrote:
(I need to stress, regularly, I'm sure, that I have already been to Next and don't need to go back...).

Really? Couldn't have guessed that.

Well, we can just ask Chef Berran and Chef Achatz to just make crappier food. Demand drops and people who don't get tickets are no longer disappointed. Sure, they might piss off a few people who eat that crappy food initially, but the problem solves itself when those people no longer buy tickets and no longer come back. Everyone wins.

Really? Couldn't have guessed that.

Sarcasm noted. But I only brought it up because my vantage is from someone who has gone already and not tried to get future tickets, not one of sour grapes because I didn't get to go or can't go or was otherwise locked out. I found the service exemplary, but the food only OK. Needless to say, the hype cycle is so perfectly calibrated that a) tickets will be snapped up before people have judged - or anyone tasted! - the food and b) even if the food is judged poorly (relatively speaking; Next will always do better than most), the tickets have already been purchased, and the aforementioned hype ensures someone else will snatch them up (not that Next necessarily cares if a table goes empty). And the whole thing starts over again with each menu, from anticipation, through the hustle, even through a fresh round of reviews for each menu from all the critics. It's really quite brilliant. It's like a perpetual motion machine.

"What we are dealing with here is a perfect engine, an eating machine. It's really a miracle of evolution."