Add Trotter's to the list that includes Carlos.
If I could read tea leaves I might think that a projection for the future shows the restaurant base dying (literally), and this would be a good time to get out. I would assume the property has risen in value since first purchased and hopefully Charlie has put away a few $$'s. Maybe a franchise or food branding is in the works to keep a revenue stream?
I know for myself we rarely if ever go to a high cost 'foodie' restaurant any more.-Dick

Read the article in the link. He isn't closing for financial reasons. And he plans to open another restaurant after taking time off to hit some of the items on his life's bucket list.

nsxtasy wrote:Read the article in the link. He isn't closing for financial reasons.

I, for one, did read the article, and reading in it how he isn't closing for financial reasons didn't absolutely convince me that he isn't closing for financial reasons.

I think budrichard is on to something when he connects this to a trend. Besides Carlos closing to reopen later with a more casual concept (if I remember correctly), the same thing is happening with Seasons in the Four Seasons, and the Ritz Carlton Sunday brunch which was once held in a fine-dining room is now in the more casual setting of the lobby itself. (We were there this morning.) Although obviously there are exceptions, it seems people are no longer as into the fancy thing as they once were.

I, too, read between the lines that at least a significant part of the decision was financial. We all know Trotters has almost every night been available on OpenTable, and now they're open 4 instead of 5 days per week. You don't scale down from 5 to 4 nights per week when business is booming.

Worth mentioning in this context the closing of Avenues, too.

Clearly Trotter is waiting for the end of the Republican presidential campaign so that he can open up a place with Ron Paul. It will be called The Fountainhead.

I, too, read between the lines that at least a significant part of the decision was financial. We all know Trotters has almost every night been available on OpenTable, and now they're open 4 instead of 5 days per week. You don't scale down from 5 to 4 nights per week when business is booming.

Completely agree, for both Mr. Muse's reasons for those I noted in the Openings/Closings thread below. I wonder why Janet Rausa Fuller understated the number of his businesses that have gone under since 2008? Odd.

Given Trotter's current age - 52 - I will be very, very surprised if he makes good on his promise of opening another place after he gets that master's degree. This is not only a young man's game, it's an increasingly competitive and expensive one.

I would agree *except* I read recently that fine dining is the only segment of the restaurant industry that experienced a growth in sales in 2011. This would be consistent with other reports that luxury goods are doing just fine. Folks are hurting, but not so much the ones who drop big bucks at fine dining restaurants.

That said, this falls into the "I read somewhere" category with the accompanying level of reliability. I'll see if I can find the source. It was a published report probably within the last month, perhaps two months.

He got married, about 2 years ago, perhaps he wants to spend more time with family & legitimately do something else. He's been at this for a long time.

Will miss this place.

If Trotters is losing money, it doesn't exactly make sense to choose to lose money for another eight months. On the other hand, universities generally start classes in September.

Dmnkly wrote:I would agree *except* I read recently that fine dining is the only segment of the restaurant industry that experienced a growth in sales in 2011. This would be consistent with other reports that luxury goods are doing just fine. Folks are hurting, but not so much the ones who drop big bucks at fine dining restaurants.

That said, this falls into the "I read somewhere" category with the accompanying level of reliability. I'll see if I can find the source. It was a published report probably within the last month, perhaps two months.

Often, the reason something like this(the up-tick in fine dining) happens it that, if you can't afford a vacation, you go out for a nice dinner instead. That's why, during the Great Depression, movies, candy, and restaurants did incredibly well -- can't buy a car, can't go on a vacation, and can't do much of anything else, so I'll do something that feels a bit luxurious but is a lot less expensive than the big ticket items. Best time in the history of the U.S. for sales of chocolate.

Dmnkly wrote:I would agree *except* I read recently that fine dining is the only segment of the restaurant industry that experienced a growth in sales in 2011. This would be consistent with other reports that luxury goods are doing just fine. Folks are hurting, but not so much the ones who drop big bucks at fine dining restaurants.

Just keep in mind, those of us on "LTH" may consider "fine dining" to consist of only the handful of places where you drop $200+ per person (inclusive), whereas media reports on the industry may use that category to include places in the $100ish/pp range (e.g. Blackbird, North Pond, Oceanique) and may even include places in the $50/pp range (Sable, Inovasi, Avec) - IOW everything that's a step up from chains and neighborhood ethnic joints and burger/pizza places. While those handful of super-expensive places have been falling like dominos in Chicago, they don't even exist in some other large cities, whereas locally we've seen a tremendous boom in those in the other two price categories. If you're including those mid- and moderately-priced places, I have no doubt that "fine dining" is growing in sales.

I have a theory that these closings/reconceptings are not so much because of people's resistance to price, but rather people's increasing resistance to treating restaurant experiences as big-deal events. They just want to have fun.

For instance, the brunch today at the Ritz-Carlton--which was doing a very good business--was no less expensive than it ever was. But it was more casual. The lobby setting lent a casual air, and people came dressed basically however they wanted. We all felt the food and entire experience justified the price, but there was no question that it had a whole different feel than the hushed room with the white linen tablecloths and the harpist. In many ways we enjoyed the new, not-as-big-a-deal (but as I say, no less expensive) experience more than before. It seems that many restaurants are adjusting to the changing preferences of the market. (Preferences that may be changing for no more profound reason than that the old people who liked things the old way are dying. The well-heeled members of the generation that's coming up have just as much money as the well-heeled members of the generation that preceded them. But the experience they seek for the same money is a different one.)

nsxtasy wrote:Read the article in the link. He isn't closing for financial reasons. And he plans to open another restaurant after taking time off to hit some of the items on his life's bucket list.

Why do you think I didn't read the article in the link?
The one thing i have learned is to take anything reported in the media with a 'grain of salt'.
Even Charlie may not have a definitive reason for closing or a reason that makes sense to any of us.
The one thing I know is that I will not miss Trotter's, now Carlos is another story, for purely personal reasons.-Dick

Having neither read the link, nor having any knowledge whatsoever of the financials of Charlie Trotter's, I agree with the baseless, wild specualtion that the restaurant is closing for finacial reasons and that Mr. Trotter has decided he'd like to continue to lose money for another 8 months. <end sarcasm>

JLenart wrote:Having neither read the link, nor having any knowledge whatsoever of the financials of Charlie Trotter's, I agree with the baselesss, wild specualtion that the restaurant is closing for finacial reasons and that Mr. Trotter has decided he'd like to continue to lose money for another 8 months. <end sarcasm>

Or it will be like Berghoff's who announced their closing in advance to allow all those people to get in there before it went poof! Unlike so many places where the last hint is when the phone is disconnected and the windows are papered over.

I have been to Trotter's twice with my first time at the kitchen table. He only came in the kitchen for less than five minutes, which were the most tense moments of the evening. The waiter was frozen as he inspected a dish very carefully with everyone who contributed holding their breath. When he approved, the tension in the room dropped instantly.

He has his staff so much on pins and needles, he could keep the restaurant running and interrupt his studies very little. Clearly he has other plans.

Clearly, Cathy, you had better luck then we did at the Kitchen Table.
Charlie was in Los Vegas preparing to open another restaurant that subsequently closed, failed (the reader can supply his own reason if that suits everyone!).
Besides spending a pile of money for four, only subsequently eclipsed at Katsu, it was disappointing not to meet or see Charlie. About a month later, Chicago Magazine published a review of Trotter's and the conversation that Chicago Magazine reported with the Staff, was verbatim to what we had witnessed, making the whole package seem like it was canned, even down to the patter.
That dining experience made me change fundamentally the way I perceived fine dining and the way I made reservations. If the Chef cannot be confirmed in the kitchen or premises we don't go. We also drastically reduced those experiences.-Dick

Cathy2, I had a very similar experience at Trotter's kitchen table - very tense when Trotter was in the room. For my money, I was happy he didn't linger in the kitchen too much during our meal. That said, my few meals there were always top-notch, and my inaugural visit there was my very first experience with dining in that weight class. So, questions of whether time has been kind to the Trotter vision aside, I'll always have a soft spot for the place and I'm sorry to see it go.

I've eaten at Trotter's five times over the past 12 years, every time in the kitchen with the last one being this past August. The first three times he was there orchestrating the evening. There was no tension, just precision. One time he very quietly but noticeably reamed our waiter because he had failed to my sister (a vegan they knew in advance would be there) olive oil for her bread until she asked for it. The comment I overheard was "this is your one table for the evening. You need to get it right". Frankly, he was right. One other time Trotter spent 10 minutes examining a little cake with one of the pastry chefs, touching it and looking it over. It was a collaborative discussion and there didn't seem to be any tension. However, the last two times he was not there. The place was still running fine, but it was not the same.

I only say this because I think the tension Cathy saw was due to his infrequency in the place and his reputation as a task master. I'll bet that kitchen team hardly ever sees the guy. That's not the way to run a very expensive dining experience, where people expect to see the guy whose name is on the door.

My experience was quite similar to John's. I ate at the Kitchen Table, a good number of years ago (perhaps ten?), and had a very different and much more positive experience than Cathy or Budrichard. Chef Trotter was in the kitchen much of the night and came over to our table several times, as did other members of the staff. (I think that this was before Charlie had other restaurants). We didn't feel that the kitchen seemed particularly tense, but focused and precise. Yes, of course, when the chef is there and is demanding, the staff will be highly focused and even nervous, but there was no yelling or insults. The kitchen seemed to be functioning just fine, and we were treated well. Knowing the kitchens at other restaurants, we were surprised that Chef Trotter felt confident enough that he would let customers see the back space. We realized when we made the reservation that there was no certainty that the chef would be present - that is the risk that you take with a celebrity chef particularly now when chefs have multiple projects, but I must say that the meal at Trotter's Kitchen Table was one of the finest meals that we have had in Chicago in the past fifteen years and one of the most memorable experiences. Any top restaurant is a team performance, but with constantly changing participants. We may have been fortunate to be there when the team was working together smoothly.

The contribution that Charlie made to cuisine was a real sense of what foods could be combined. It was a moment of post-fusion. In fusion cuisine ingredients were combined together to make a statement about how ethnic cuisines could be combined more for shock value. But Trotter and other leading chefs of the mid-1980s wanted to use the range of available foods and spices to create dishes that would stand on their own without saying that this is half-Burmese, half-Peruvian. It was - and is - the style of NY places such as Grammercy Tavern, for instance. In the past quarter-century chefs have built on this tradition with increased precision, a greater focus on the sourcing of ingredients (farm-to-table, foraging), and a focus on new techniques of presentation (first, molecular, and now Modernist cuisine).

While I can certainly respect Charlie Trotter's legacy and what he's done for fine dining in Chicago and beyond, I'm not shedding any tears over this closing. His food never really did anything for me, other than provide a reminder of what mid-90's fancy food looked like, and his role in the great Chicago foie gras debacle didn't help either. I'm not sure if it was his doing or the hotel's, but he massively screwed up C in Cabo. When we went the first time, soon after it opened, we had a wonderful meal, one that was truly representative of Mexican fine dining. When we returned the following year we found a generic hotel restaurant, still with Trotter's name over the door (we were also told about some pretty heavy turnover in the kitchen).

I hope Mr. Trotter enjoys his retirement (I don't believe for a second he's going to open another restaurant, at least not one that he'll be running day to day).

Mid-90s "fancy food" was pretty great in the mid-90s. It didn't seem pedestrian back then; it seemed amazing. (Actually, Trotters was more cutting-edge mid-1980s fancy food: some of us are old enough to remember!).

Twenty years from now we will be saying something similar about Grant Achatz. I hope that LTH remains so that someone can dig up this remark!

Right, in the mid-90's it was great. In the mid 2000's when I first ate at Trotter's it seemed dated and not at all exciting. He had a great run, but it's definitely time for Charlie to hang 'em up.

jesteinf wrote:Right, in the mid-90's it was great. In the mid 2000's when I first ate at Trotter's it seemed dated and not at all exciting. He had a great run, but it's definitely time for Charlie to hang 'em up.

Also time for the Art Institute to put all of those Impressionists into storage.

jesteinf wrote:Right, in the mid-90's it was great. In the mid 2000's when I first ate at Trotter's it seemed dated and not at all exciting. He had a great run, but it's definitely time for Charlie to hang 'em up.

I really don't understand this thought in the least. What's exciting by today's standards - hitting everything with liquid nitrogen or foaming it? If that's the case, that's not exciting in my book. It's just theatrics.

One of the reasons I went to Trotter's in August was to see if what people were saying was true, that the place was tired and the cuisine outdated. In my opinion, the cuisine was still spot on and as innovative as ever. The dishes still combined unusual and outstanding ingredients at the top of their quality. How can that be called dated? I call that the benchmark others should aspire to.

I'm sure if there was a museum for restaurants, Charlie Trotter's would be in it. Even if a restaurant is or once was great, it can't stay open forever.

JLenart wrote:Having neither read the link, nor having any knowledge whatsoever of the financials of Charlie Trotter's, I agree with the baseless, wild specualtion that the restaurant is closing for finacial reasons and that Mr. Trotter has decided he'd like to continue to lose money for another 8 months. <end sarcasm>

As one who read the link, and combined this with whatever common sense he may possess (meager though that might be), I don't know what alternative you're suggesting--that we not allow ourselves to draw inferences and make reasonable and plausible (even if incorrect) conclusions?

I recognize that conclusions/theories/inferences can be wrong, but am personally unable to proceed in the world without making them.

John Danza wrote:

jesteinf wrote:Right, in the mid-90's it was great. In the mid 2000's when I first ate at Trotter's it seemed dated and not at all exciting. He had a great run, but it's definitely time for Charlie to hang 'em up.

I really don't understand this thought in the least. What's exciting by today's standards - hitting everything with liquid nitrogen or foaming it? If that's the case, that's not exciting in my book. It's just theatrics.

One of the reasons I went to Trotter's in August was to see if what people were saying was true, that the place was tired and the cuisine outdated. In my opinion, the cuisine was still spot on and as innovative as ever. The dishes still combined unusual and outstanding ingredients at the top of their quality. How can that be called dated? I call that the benchmark others should aspire to.

It's hard to articulate, but nothing I ever ate there really excited me (i felt the same way about Ria) And no, it doesn't have to be molecular or whatever to get my attention. I have clear memories of dishes that I've eaten at Les Francais, Le Nomades, and other traditional places. I can't say the same about anything I've eaten at Trotters.

jesteinf wrote:

John Danza wrote:

jesteinf wrote:Right, in the mid-90's it was great. In the mid 2000's when I first ate at Trotter's it seemed dated and not at all exciting. He had a great run, but it's definitely time for Charlie to hang 'em up.

I really don't understand this thought in the least. What's exciting by today's standards - hitting everything with liquid nitrogen or foaming it? If that's the case, that's not exciting in my book. It's just theatrics.

One of the reasons I went to Trotter's in August was to see if what people were saying was true, that the place was tired and the cuisine outdated. In my opinion, the cuisine was still spot on and as innovative as ever. The dishes still combined unusual and outstanding ingredients at the top of their quality. How can that be called dated? I call that the benchmark others should aspire to.

It's hard to articulate, but nothing I ever ate there really excited me (i felt the same way about Ria) And no, it doesn't have to be molecular or whatever to get my attention. I have clear memories of dishes that I've eaten at Les Francais, Le Nomades, and other traditional places. I can't say the same about anything I've eaten at Trotters.

Fair enough. I understand completely. I've had the same feeling at places others have raved about. Sometimes, places just don't fit us.

I couldn't care less about Trotter's closing. Based on my last experience there a couple of years ago, which was brutal, it's beyond time. The food was not remarkable in any way and the service was glaringly sloppy to the point of irritation.

Trotter's reminds me of Brennan's in New Orleans -- a once great restaurant that's riding on its reputation and resting on its laurels. I'm with Josh. Save a prominent place for it in the Chicago Restaurant Museum but close the doors as soon as possible to to end the continued decay of its reputation. As for staying open until August, I'm guessing there will be plenty of "cash grab"-type special events held there between now and then to indulge all the sentimentalists and folks who've always wanted to go but never have.

=R=

riddlemay wrote:

JLenart wrote:Having neither read the link, nor having any knowledge whatsoever of the financials of Charlie Trotter's, I agree with the baseless, wild specualtion that the restaurant is closing for finacial reasons and that Mr. Trotter has decided he'd like to continue to lose money for another 8 months. <end sarcasm>

As one who read the link, and combined this with whatever common sense he may possess (meager though that might be), I don't know what alternative you're suggesting--that we not allow ourselves to draw inferences and make reasonable and plausible (even if incorrect) conclusions?

I recognize that conclusions/theories/inferences can be wrong, but am personally unable to proceed in the world without making them.

You are absolutely correct, you must draw a conclusion upon reading the article.

Your choices are:

A) The man is speaking truthfully and is closing after an historic 25 year run

or

B) HE'S A LIAR I TELL YA!

It seems like you choose B, while that has zero effect on my life, I feel sorry for people who go through life as a pesimist.