Great work.

Did you guys happen to notice the elusive and delicious mi quang anywhere other than Dong Ky and 777?

After seeing your post about it, I noticed it in on a number of menus. It was definitely at Viet Nam, Pho 888, and Tien Gang, though I'm sure there were others.

Nice, thanks. In addition to the great pho info, I'm hoping to cross reference the kitchens you guys think are doing the best work right now against other dishes. If any single item reflects a kitchen's chops, it's pho broth. Even at a high volume, down-the-middle place like Tank, the steps involved and sheer volume of stuff in the big pot is pretty amazing to contemplate. It's like the Asian equivalent to mole, and they make it every day. I wonder if pho would qualify as "sophisticated" under you-know-who's standards because of the Gallic connotations, in pho especially.

I am so sorry that I missed out on your ventures. Thank you for the reports. This is perfect Pho weather.

There are so many variations of pho spices, but a combination that I llike includes:
star anise, cinnamon, black cardamom, coriander seeds, cloves-very sparingly
charred ginger root and charred yellow onion (unpeeled)
I have seen anise seeds in some, but not my thing, it tends to over powers.

laikom wrote:At Pho 888 our group grew a bit. We ordered the Pho, a Bun Mam, and a sort of appetizer combination. Not sure if the plate had a name, perhaps boudreaulicious can remember, as she picked it out. The pho was among the table’s favorite, with Turkob placing it on a tier with the tops.

If you are referring to the plate under the pho condiments (sprouts, chili, lime) than that's Banh Cuon Nhan Thit, or sometimes referred to Banh Cuon Tay Ho. Banh Cuon is the rice crepe, which is sometimes served plain without the ground pork filling (i.e. Nhan Thit). Tay Ho is usually comes with the pork filling, plus the Shrimp cake (Banh Cong) and cha lua (pork roll). The nem chua (i.e. pink pork sausage patty) is more recent variation. This is a common street food all over VN, eaten as a snack or light meal.

laikom wrote:For an appetizer we ordered a water fern cake, which I don’t think anyone knew what to expect. Served in individual bowls, they tasted like a rice or tapioca cake topped with something fishy and chewy in texture. My guess is the fern was in that topping? Not much to say about it but I enjoyed it.

These are also known as "Banh Beo", most famous from the Hue region. Another variation of these are "Banh Khot", which has coconut milk in the batter, poured into takoyaki-like griddle to form little crisped bottom cups of sweet savory goodness topped with green onions and shrimp flakes.

Thanks Laikom for the terrific write-up and pictures.

It really was quite an adventure. We had 13 bowls of pho in total, more than enough to really get a sense of what the different restaurants are doing.

In my estimation there was a clear top tier of restaurants: Le's Pho, Nha Hang, Pho 888, and Tank. We debated which was the best amongst them, but it was a difficult task, particularly with so many data points fresh in our minds. What made these stand out was the richness of the broth, the quality and variety of meat (so many bowls had almost no tripe or tendon in them), and the ratio of noodles (sometimes we were left with a bowl half-full of noodles and nothing else).

Le's Pho - This was the only restaurant we visited where the clientele was almost entirely Asian. The service was enthusiastic and the three soups we ordered were all well prepared, though the bun bo hue lagged behind the pho and the bun mam. One thing that stood out at Le's was the different herb plates for each soup. Most places brought out soup-specific plates, but Le's featured the widest range of different ingredients including banana blossoms that were astringent when eaten raw but softened up beautifully in the soup. I also brought home one of their house-made bao which was excellent. My favorite dish of the night was the bun mam (fish soup), which I thought outshined the pho.

Nha Hang - The most charming of all the restaurants we visited. The family that owns the place were exceedingly pleasant and also, it appeared, a little suspicious of our picture-taking. Nha Hang got the details best of all the restaurants. Fragrant and fresh herb plate, tender and flavorful meats, beefy broth with a simple, but distinct spice profile, and some excellent house-made chilli oil that really brightened the soups. The bun mam had a richer, lemongrass-forward broth that was more satisfying but somehow less tasty (though still delicious) than the version at Le's which was spicier and fishier. The other three top-tier phos all came from restaurants that were doing pretty good business, so it made sense they could make fresh broth, whereas Nha Hang was empty when we were there, but they still took care to serve high quality soup. I really hope this place succeeds, based on my first visit, they appear committed to making great food.

Pho 888 - Tank and 888 are far and away the most popular restaurants in the neighborhood. 888 is a smaller dining room than Tank, and was completely full when we were there on a Wednesday night. The pho was probably the most complex with an assertive spice profile that complemented the silky beefiness. It had a nice ratio of meat and noodles that highlighted the skillfully prepared broth. I also really enjoyed the thin, almost translucent rice noodle we ordered on the side (as part of an appetizer plate). Pho 888 is in a category of ethnic restaurants that rises above hole-in-the-wall with its brusque but efficient service and warm but generic atmosphere. Regardless, the food was as good as we had anywhere on the street, clearly there is a commitment to making quality food in the kitchen, even if it's seemingly aimed at a non-Asian crowd.

Tank Noodle - While 888 is kind of an elevated hole-in-the-wall, Tank is more like a cafeteria. The space is large and there's an army of waiters making sure the food is traveling from the kitchen to the table quickly and efficiently. Still, we got pretty good service from our young server who enthusiastically directed us to doctor our pho with hoisin sauce and hot sauce (not knowing that we were totally pho experts by this point) and suggested that next time we order raw beef on the side to keep the beef from overcooking in the broth. The pho was thick and probably the most cinnamon and clove-forward of the top-tier phos. I was honestly a little surprised that Tank had one of the top phos considering how many tables they're serving at once, but what they lacked in details (some wilted herbs, we had to ask them for a ladle a couple times) they made up for with their generous portions of meat (lots of tendon) and the delicious broth. We also ordered the banh xeo, which has long been a favorite of mine. The version at Tank is consistently crispy with a hint of coconut flavor and lots of fresh herbs and lettuce on the side. Considering how busy they always are, Tank is still able to put out solid food and served us a pho that ranked among the best on Argyle.

Beyond the top 4, the only places that stood out were the ones that served particularly bad pho. I'd categorize 3 of the restaurants as having what I'd consider bottom-tier phos: Pho Lily, Dong-Ky, and New Saigon. This works out to a roughly gaussian distribution of 4 above average, 6 average, and 3 below-average bowls. Amongst the average bowls of pho, most suffered from lacking in beefy flavor and a thinner texture. Some were decent broths but the bowl was completely full of noodles with little beef, others had tender meat but an almost flavorless broth. I'd be most interested in revisiting Tien Gang because the broth, while thinner, featured an interesting spice profile that I felt compelled to describe as perfumy, though I'm not sure why. I suspect there might be some great dishes at that restaurant even if the pho was not completely to my liking.

As luck would have it, the three worst bowls of pho we had were the ones we had at the end of the night on the three nights. My first inclination was to attribute this to staff apathy late in the night or a broth that had been sitting out too long, but I don't think this is the case. New Saigon and Dong-Ky were both almost certainly made from a powder. Incidentally these were also the cheapest bowls of pho in the neighborhood, both being under 5 dollars. I'd say Pho Lily may have suffered from our late arrival, and I'd be willing to give it another go, since all the other items we ordered there seemed to suffer from apathetic cooking as well. That said, the broth at Pho Lily was really bad. It was thin and somewhat soapy with an overwhelming flavor of cinnamon.

Argyle is a neighborhood I've long wanted to investigate, and this was the perfect premise to really attack the neighborhood in one fell swoop. I learned a lot about Vietnamese cuisine, and particularly pho. Part of me is curious to try the favorites again, to see if I feel the same way about them with a second glance, but I probably need a little break from pho for a while.

turkob wrote:I was honestly a little surprised that Tank had one of the top phos considering how many tables they're serving at once

Of course, this is how Tank became Tank after its life a a dingy, smoke-filled little storefront before being thrust into the spotlight by Erik and other LTHers present and past. The same can be said about any number of places.

Remember when people used to wring hands that success and expansion to serve a broader cross section of patrons would "ruin" such places? A decade into this stuff, I'm happy to see that great places largely remain great, albeit bigger and more prosperous. In this narrative, Baucis and Philemon much more often follow their Ovidian mythical path than their arc in Goethe's Faust.

This was an awesome excursion you guys. My only regret was not being able to attend the first 2 nights and having to leave early on the last night for family reasons. I really enjoyed it and was inspired to make another attempt at Pho. (Recipe can be found here with pictures) Once again, great job and excellent pictures and critique!

Did you guys go to the smalll restaurant in the strip mall just south of Lawrence with the large Vietnamese grocery store? The restaurant is right next to the grocery store (they may share an entrance). I've been there a few times over the last few years and recall that they had great Pho. Always packed with Vietnamese folks. Anyone know it?

I'm having a hard time picturing what's south of Lawrence. If you meant north, perhaps you're talking about Dong Ky, which was one of the duds, as far as the pho went.

Distinktif wrote:This was an awesome excursion you guys. My only regret was not being able to attend the first 2 nights and having to leave early on the last night for family reasons. I really enjoyed it and was inspired to make another attempt at Pho. (Recipe can be found here with pictures) Once again, great job and excellent pictures and critique!

Awesome! Thanks for sharing with us, and it was great having you on the adventure. We'll keep you informed about our next one.

laikom wrote:I'm having a hard time picturing what's south of Lawrence. If you meant north, perhaps you're talking about Dong Ky, which was one of the duds, as far as the pho went.

Also, no Vietnamese patrons in sight at Dong Ky.

Thank you LTH for again providing folks like Laikom, Turkob and Co. the venue to document such noble endeavors.

A friend and I went to Nha Hang yesterday on their recommendation. We were blown away. It was the best Vietnamese either of us have ever had...and though I haven't been to Vietnam, I lived in the heart of Boston's Vietnamese neighborhood for 3 years.

We supplemented our pho with, fried chicken w/fish sauce and a steamed rice plate with choice of three meat toppings (shrimp, pork rib, beltfish). The wings were like nothing we've had before, and would definitely order again. The rice plate came with a side of chicken broth that was paradoxically clean and rich. The shell-on shrimp in house made fish sauce was one of the best things I've eaten this year.

Laikom's description of the pho was spot-on, and I am now in the "richer" pho camp. Also, as previously mentioned, the friendliest service that can be found. I will be back again and again and again.

Note: I'll copy this in the Nha Hang thread, because this place deserves the attention of LTH.

Anyone part of this current Louis and Clark Pho Expedition ever been to Ben Tre Cafe on Touhy and Kedzie and can possibly compare Ben Tre to any of the places you masticated at on your journey?

kenji wrote:Anyone part of this current Louis and Clark Pho Expedition ever been to Ben Tre Cafe on Touhy and Kedzie and can possibly compare Ben Tre to any of the places you masticated at on your journey?

I personally have not been to ben tre cafe, but i'll be sure to add this to my list (assuming you're recommending it?).

laikom wrote:

kenji wrote:Anyone part of this current Louis and Clark Pho Expedition ever been to Ben Tre Cafe on Touhy and Kedzie and can possibly compare Ben Tre to any of the places you masticated at on your journey?

I personally have not been to ben tre cafe, but i'll be sure to add this to my list (assuming you're recommending it?).

I've been a couple of times. Never had the pho but I didn't think what I did have was anything special.

=R=

Sweetbread wrote:The shell-on shrimp in house made fish sauce was one of the best things I've eaten this year.

Tell us more...do you know anything about where/how they are making this?

We just spent several days on an island known for making the world's best fish sauce, and I would not want to eat in or down-wind of any building where fish sauce was being produced.

I tried the pho at Ben Tre a few times and it is not something you would like to write home about.
Not too far away though at 6144 North Lincoln Avenue, near Mc Cormick , The pho served at Hoanh Long, one of my favorite Vietnamese restaurants in Chicago, is quite aromatic and well served.The restaurant itself moved a couple of doors North of its former location and is now larger, more comfortable, and nicely decorated.
Its menu expanded a bit too. The staff is very helpful.

alain40 wrote:I tried the pho at Ben Tre a few times and it is not somethingh you would like to write home about.
Not too far away though on Lincoln Avenue and Mc Cormick , The pho served at Hoanh Long, one of my favorite Vietnamese restaurants in Chicago, is quite aromatic and well served.

I've got to agree with Alain40. Although the folks at Ben Tre couldn't be any nicer if they tried, the pho broth is a bit thin in both consistency and flavor for my tastes. Hoanh Long is a much better bet for pho in the neighborhood, although I'm not sure I'd rank Hoanh Log's pho among the best in town.

thanks for the feedback. I'll give Hoanh Long another shot. I went a few times, and generally eat Vietnamese for lunch. Downside of Hoanh Long seemed to be they only sold dinner portions (pho was about 8 though) at lunch time. Which means a 15 dollar out of pocket expense for a meal for lunch time which is more than I usually budget.

Kenji,
I had lunch there a couple weeks ago and I spent $ 8.95 for a very decent and generously served chicken with spicy lemongrass with white rice and some freshly brewed green tea.
By the way the new address is 6148 N. Lincoln in Chicago, not 6144 as i mentioned up thread which was their former address.

I've had the pho at Hoanh Long twice, most recently in March when it was nominated for a GNR. I thought it was a good version but a little sweet for my taste. I'd definitely be willing to try it again now that I have a clearer picture of what makes good pho.

alain40 wrote: I spent $ 8.95 .

I'll go again and report back. Maybe later today.

Erik M tutored me on the nuances of eating pho, which I thought may be useful for this revised interest and efforts to locate the best pho. While Erik M is best known for his knowledge of Thai cuisine, he has just as deep knowledge of Vietnamese. He had ordered every item on Tank's menu more than once. He could advise what to pick depending on mood, health and season.

Subject: Tank Noodle Moving

Cathy2 wrote:HI,

Erik M and I did visit Tank Noodle at their new location today. We arrived around 12:15, the place was filled with large groups at the 13 or so tables which accomodate 8 or more.

We expected service to be slow, so we were not very excited when it was, we just kept ourselves amused conversing. It did take some time to get water, menus and tea. Once we placed our order for two Pho's, rare filet on the side, rendered beef fat with scallions in it and a Coke for me, the pace of service improved.

While waiting for the food to come, Erik had the waiter bring two shallow mixing bowls. In one bowl, he put half Sracha for him and half hoisin sauce for me. Once the soup came, Erik dipped the cooked meat lightly into the Sracha to season it. Into the next bowl, Erik put maybe 2-3 teaspoons of black pepper and a teaspoon of salt. Once the fresh vegetable plate arrived, the lime was squeezed into the salt and pepper, just enough to form a paste. This lime-salt-pepper was used to season the raw filet after it was warmed in the soup. All this was prepared in advance of the soup's arriving so it could be eaten while it was still hot.

Erik then described how Pho was really all about the broth. He commented the Vietnamese who always dumped Sracha into their broth without tasting were almost always men. He felt they had no appreciation for the care, effort and skill put into the broth like the women did.

Once the soup arrives, Erik only puts some herbs and bean sprouts into his soup. He prefers to pace it to allow the soup to stay as hot as possible as long as possible. He emphasized if you dump all the cold vegetables you desire all at once, then you also cool the soup faster than is desireable. He mixed in 1-2 soup spoons of the rendered beef fat to enrich the flavor. He also prefers to eat the noodles fast before they cook further in the broth, expand and get mushier.

During the course of the meal, the lime-pepper-salt mixture got a little soupy. Probably because I may not have drained my filet enough before dipping. Erik corrected the situation by introducing more pepper until it was a paste again.

I've been coming to Argyle for Pho for perhaps 10 years, I learned about the art of eating Pho only today. Interestingly, I didn't really realize I had anything to learn. IN this thread Erik explains his method of eating Pho himself in case I forgot something.

According to Erik M the Pho broth, presentation and service (once our order was placed) at Tank today was the same as he has enjoyed at their smaller location east of the El station, which was very, very welcome news.

Another day well spent: I learned something new! Thanks again Erik!

JeffB wrote:Great work.

Did you guys happen to notice the elusive and delicious mi quang anywhere other than Dong Ky and 777?

I recently had an AMAZING Mi Quang at Nha Hang. Sorry, no pics. If you need some company, I'll gladly meet you there!

I am a huge fan of Pho and will go far to get it. It got me thinking, who do you think has the best Pho in Chicago?

I have eaten at a lot of places here especially around Broadway/Argyle, but I have to say the best Pho I've had in town is at Le Colonial on Rush. I do love the huge bowls at Tank Noodle, Pho 777, etc but compared to Le Colonial they are not on the same level. The one at Le Colonial is not the big bowl you get at the places above and there's only one kind, but the flavor is really good (actually you can order a double, it's not on the menu, but not as cheap as places on Argyle). The beef they use is really tender (though they're using a cheaper cut compared to say a year ago but it's still a better cut of meat).

What do you guys think?

marothisu wrote:I am a huge fan of Pho and will go far to get it. It got me thinking, who do you think has the best Pho in Chicago?

I have eaten at a lot of places here especially around Broadway/Argyle, but I have to say the best Pho I've had in town is at Le Colonial on Rush. I do love the huge bowls at Tank Noodle, Pho 777, etc but compared to Le Colonial they are not on the same level. The one at Le Colonial is not the big bowl you get at the places above and there's only one kind, but the flavor is really good (actually you can order a double, it's not on the menu, but not as cheap as places on Argyle). The beef they use is really tender (though they're using a cheaper cut compared to say a year ago but it's still a better cut of meat).

What do you guys think?

Your query was merged into a topic where there are a lot of thoughts on this topic of best pho.

Regards,

Steve Dolinsky just finished a "Pho Crawl" which was aimed at finding what he considers to be the best pho around. He and his assistant/advisor settled on Pho 5 Lua which is on McCormick just north of Lincoln.

This was quite a surprise to me since I drive by there everyday and have wondered if it was worth stopping in. So, yesterday I did. I don't know if it is the best pho in town or if such a distinction can actually be accurately made, but it was very good pho. I had the oxtail pho and although the oxtail first appeared to be overdone, it was very tender and flavorful. I was also surprised by the menu which goes well beyond pho and includes some interesting sounding seafood dishes among other things.

If, like me, you have been driving by this place, I think it's worth stopping in.

Pho 5 Lua
6261 N. McCormick
Chicago, Il
(773) 509-0909

Stopped in again at Pho 5 Lua, this time for dinner and the place was packed. On a humid night the windows were steamed up from the broth being simmered.

This time I had the Bun Bo Hue, which I have not had before. I think I may prefer this to Pho. This had a nice spiciness to it and sort of scratched the same itch that a nice Soon Dubu would on a winter evening.

I'm a regular at both Pho 5 Lua and Nha Hang, about evenly split though Pho 5 Lua is closer to my house.

What prompted this post, Pho 5 Lua's bone-in chicken pho with heart, liver, ungestated chicken eggs and my typical choice of egg noodle sub for rice noodle. A really fine bowl of soup.



Pho 5 Lua
6261 N. McCormick
Chicago, Il

Nha Hang Viet Nam
1032 W Argyle St
Chicago, IL 60640