I found myself in Las Vegas for a bachelor party recently and made it back for a second visit to Carnevino. I've come to the conclusion that I like CUT better for steaks, but prefer Carnevino for the appetizers and, of course, the pastas. The carne crudi / steak tartare was a game changer for me, and every pasta I've had there (orecchiette, black spaghetti, cannelloni, raviolo) has been flawless. I split the porterhouse for two, and had no complaints. Minerally, funky, like a dry aged hunk of meat should be.

There were a few service and timing issues that came up, but we had a group of 16 so it wasn't like it was a standard service. There were also two overcooked steaks, but were promptly replaced with properly cooked steaks. If you have some leftover change in your pocket from the craps table, both CUT and Carnevino are stellar options for dry aged meats.

Vital Information wrote:...I highly disagree that Vegas versions cannot work, or are, by nature, pale imitations, but this one did seem lacking a bit...

We have three Las Vegas days upcoming in June, as a renowned voice elsewhere herein often sez "the beautiful bride" and myself. She loves to dress up, and does it well. The problem is--I'm no nabob when it comes to fine dining. Heck, in a five day sojourn to NYC this past year we hit Del Posto, Le Bernadin, Sarges, South China Garden (2x), Barney Greengrass, Tulsi and numerous slice joints. And in 72 hours in Chicago six weeks ago we hit Manny's (2x), Avli, Greek Islands and Cafe Spiaggia. Aroy sadly got knocked off the list!

So I can't , in all good conscience, bring myself to pi$$ money down the Las Vegas so-called fine dining drain just because a chef has a good PR agency, a yen for a solid 401-K and a past or current TV presence.

So here's my dilemma: Where to satisfy the beautiful bride's penchant to dress up, and my chowishness--both of which we each do extremely well? We've got one obligatory night at Lotus of Siam, another at Charlie Palmer's for the Cut of the Week, but who's on third?

Arrgh. Help?

In one of the Vegas threads, I wrote about an outstanding meal I had at Sage (Shawn McClain's restaurant in Aria), and also included a pic or two. It won't fit the bill for incredibly fancy (or must dress fancy) as far as Vegas goes, but the quality of the food blew away most of the more expensive meals I've had in Vegas.

I had a terrific eating time in Las Vegas in December, and you can read/see most of where we went here: viewtopic.php?p=400749#p400749

I never did report on our fancier meals. Without giving much elaboration, I enjoyed, a lot Central, it's somewhere between dress-up and not, and may fit your needs.

The very best deal in Las Vegas, I believe, is Estoria Milos for lunch, which is like $20.12 for three outstanding courses of Greek food.

Last July I had a fantastic lunch at Jaleo, and would also offer that as a fit your needs kinda place.

Great steakhouses should make you both happy, and the greatest I've experienced is Carnevino.

I would also say that my one meal, a few years ago, at Bartolotta was well worth the $$$ and really worth all the hype.

Still, the one place I would say would be your place is the Japanese grill, Raku. Given that you can walk out with a 4 figure bill, it can justify dressing up, although it's not a fancy place per se, it's tres chic, and tres in the moment right now (make reservations for sure).

Good luck

BR wrote:In one of the Vegas threads, I wrote about an outstanding meal I had at Sage (Shawn McClain's restaurant in Aria), and also included a pic or two. It won't fit the bill for incredibly fancy (or must dress fancy) as far as Vegas goes, but the quality of the food blew away most of the more expensive meals I've had in Vegas.

My wife and I ate at Sage and RM Seafood about a week ago and loved both. RM has an upstairs with tasting menu and a larger downstairs space with an a la carte menu. We had the latter.

I have failed to precisely articulate my dilemma.

When I drop major bucks at home here in Atlanta, NYC or Chicago my adopted chow home I do it with judiciousness and forethought and confidence.

To do so with abandon in the ersatz chef environs of Las Vegas has me paralyzed with fear, self-loathing and distrust. I will gladly hold forth further over white liquor at De Ville upon my next visit.

PS. For all those worshipping Raku, I invite you to Sushi House Hayakawa here in Atlanta. I've sojourned in barcelona. But forewent El Bulli. I have to work through lunch so Milos is out. If we do LOS twice the beautiful bride will never let me live it down.

I need somewhere with high WAF-wife acceptance!

Well, I cannot speak to any personally, but the big three French Chefs with Vegas outposts, Robuchon, Savoy and Gagnaire's, have all been very well received by various food press. So, if you really wanted to go all out...

I still don't understand how I've misunderstood your dilemma, Steve.

VI, my wife and I had the $20.12 lunch at Estoria Milos and were a little bit disappointed, but perhaps our expectations were too high. It's a three course meal, with a few options per course. So we tried six dishes. Both deserts were disappointing. One was simply greek yogurt with a little sugar. The other was a cake of some sort, but was so incredibly dry we couldn't eat it. One of the appetizers was diver scallops over couscous. The scallops were among the best bites I had in Vegas, but the couscous was undercooked (i.e. crunchy; inedible). The other dishes were good. Perhaps we just had bad luck with those three, though. The space is excellent, though. We sat outside.

Vital Information wrote:Well, I cannot speak to any personally, but the big three French Chefs with Vegas outposts, Robuchon, Savoy and Gagnaire's, have all been very well received by various food press. So, if you really wanted to go all out...

Perhaps the source of my discomfort is that having owned several restaurants, it's an absolute subjective fact that a chef cannot phone it in. Rather, they have to be there. The idea that like McDonalds, or P.F. Chang's, that chef-ness is extensible--that you can set it up, hire folks to run it just doesn't work once you reach a certain level (see Darren72's Milos' report immediately above re underdone cous cous. Typical). At least it doesn't work for me.

Based on unsubstantiated research, currently in the running are Marche Bacchus and Chef Marc's Parma/Pastevino, both in Summerlin. A bit of a haul from Spring Mt where our hotel is, however.

Steve Drucker wrote:
Perhaps the source of my discomfort is that having owned several restaurants, it's an absolute subjective fact that a chef cannot phone it in. Rather, they have to be there.

So . . . on any given night either Alinea or Next sucks because Achatz isn't there (and maybe even some nights both suck)?

Also - how can something be both subjective and "absolute" fact at the same time (and what elevates a fact to "absolute" status)?

Kman wrote:

Steve Drucker wrote:
how can something be both subjective and "absolute" fact at the same time (and what elevates a fact to "absolute" status)?

I believe it absolutely...without requiring anyone else to share my belief.

Having owned restaurants is like trying to explain sex. Perhaps why 'Kitchen Confidential' has been so successful, even though the author was never an owner.

An epic, great chef can get his staff to put out the food 88% as well as he. If they put it out 80% as well it's a very well trained staff indeed. That's while being there. Not being there, well, I can't believe it and leave it to others to exercise their faith.

Steve, I understand what you are saying. This is why my wife and I picked Sage and RM Seafood for our meals. While I have no idea what Shawn McClain and Rick Moonen's day to day activities are, I liked that these were their main restaurants, rather than a Vegas reproduction of one of their other restaurants or one of many restaurants in a larger group.

Darren72 wrote:Steve, I understand what you are saying. This is why my wife and I picked Sage and RM Seafood for our meals. While I have no idea what Shawn McClain and Rick Moonen's day to day activities are, I liked that these were their main restaurants, rather than a Vegas reproduction of one of their other restaurants or one of many restaurants in a larger group.

Exactly the 411 I needed. Thanks. The Sage menu is perhaps way fusionistic for me but I'll give RM a close look.

FWIW, Steve, our server at Sage lent the impression that McClain's heart lies in Vegas and that he'd rather be out of Chicago. If true (and I have no idea if it is), it could be that Sage is actually getting more of his attention. We certainly had an excellent meal there.

Steve Drucker wrote:If we do LOS twice the beautiful bride will never let me live it down.

I wouldn't do LoS once, much less twice in an LV trip, beautiful bride's murderous tendencies or otherwise. If there's tasty oden in Atlanta, I'd assume there's also regional Thai cuisine.

L'atelier, with or without Robuchon actually present, runs like clockwork, and is sexy as hell. That'll get you laid (that's what we're talking about right? with the "beautiful bride" and all?). "Beef" khai soi paired with a sangiovese does not. At least not in my hotel room.

Ha! TonyC said it a helluva lot better than me but I would second the rec for Atelier--it was a few years ago but we ate at the "bar" and it was everything Mr. C described (tho can't speak for the aphrodisiacal effects)--beautiful room, great meal. Never expected to see Robuchon there nor would it have made an iota of a difference I'm sure.

I was at L'Atelier a few years ago and didn't love the food (viewtopic.php?p=239102#p239102), although I loved the decor. I'd probably give it another shot though . . . I'd be shocked if the kitchen hasn't largely turned over in that time. After all, it's Vegas.

Just a data point...I loved both L'Atelier and Sage. Another option, Mozen Bistro, has a great Asian menu (sushi, thai and Indian (I know - sounds weird)) in a beautiful atmosphere. It is the more casual restaurant at Mandarin Oriental but I enjoyed it more than Twist.


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TonyC wrote:

Steve Drucker wrote:If we do LOS twice the beautiful bride will never let me live it down.

I wouldn't do LoS once, much less twice in an LV trip, beautiful bride's murderous tendencies or otherwise. If there's tasty oden in Atlanta, I'd assume there's also regional Thai cuisine.

Atlanta Thai is like what's often whispered about Chicago Greektown--all the food comes out of a single commissary. The prejudiced blend of the five elemental flavors tilted toward ubiquitously sweet offers acute insight into why P.F. Chang's is so successful.

Atlanta does, however, have multiple excellent Sichuan options.

TonyC wrote:L'atelier, with or without Robuchon actually present, runs like clockwork, and is sexy as hell. That'll get you laid (that's what we're talking about right? with the "beautiful bride" and all?). "Beef" khai soi paired with a sangiovese does not. At least not in my hotel room.

It's complicated...LOL. Besides, there's only one old school wine to pair successfully with Thai food--a dry 11.5% alcohol Austrian reisling. Anything else would be fowl.

Seriously. Flame on. After much study, I can finally articulate my discomfort at the prospect of parsing Las Vegas celebrity restaurants. There is little to no repeat clientele. Rather, customers are all transient. There is the food press, the blog space and yelp space. FWIW. It's the embodiment of the Disney-ification of restaurants, fueled by PR.

Further, at least half of the local residents hail from the heartland and have preferences, experiences and frames of reference to match. When VI and others propose that you need to pounce as close to an establishment's opening date as possible--IMHO that's going to be as good as it gets.

Flame off. Back in the age before the Euro, when all of France stubbornly clung to the Minitel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel), our Paris splurge was a 2* Michelin lunch several gray and grimy blocks below the theater that housed the Folies Bergere; at a place that earned it's stars for the food, rather than ambience or decor. With a split of champagne and several quarts de vin the bill was about $140. I learned about it thanks to high school French sharpened in restaurant kitchens that enabled me to read the local newspapers online. It was totally worth it. So was two bills for lunch this past year at Le Bernardin. But for Las Vegas--it's LOS and Chef Marc's Pastavino (about which I will report back) and for the BB to don some finery Charlie Palmer's at the Four Seasons for Cut of The Week. To prompt a successful evening, she can have a crab cake too.

Vital Information wrote:You know, the other day when I mentioned going to Mon Ami for PJs and gift certificates, a friend mentioned that he likes Mon Ami Vegas. Still, I cannot see going to a place there when I can go to it here (and in jammies to boot!).

I agree, I prefer not to go to places I can go to at home. However, Mon Ami Gabi in Vegas is special in that you are not only eating outside, but you have the Bellagio fountains right in front of you. I was there for dinner last night and it was a fantastic experience, and priced just right. I will definitely be eating there each time I come back to Vegas. But be prepared for a Kuma's-like wait for a patio table. Which is not a bad thing, you can still gamble in Paris while you wait.