I am going to step out on a limb, here, and say that I think this thread has been one of the most insightful, perceptive - and productive - I have seen in the last 8 years on this forum, with respect to one particular point that is really central if tacit in our concern here, that being the concept of taste. We so frequently equivocate on our use of this word, because it really does not have a single underlying meaning, at least not one that can be expressed in a simple, declarative sentence or two, or agreed upon by more than a few smart people. This thread has been about taste as that thing which drives our desire, for something, that we cannot quite explain or excuse. Often, that is something we have had before as a kid, or in a past life; or think we had, or wish we had, or think we ought to have had. I am obviously angling here for a broad definition of taste, one that is more descriptive than proscriptive, but let's keep at it, folks. This is some really, really good cocktail conversation we have going on here.

JimInLoganSquare wrote:This is some really, really good cocktail conversation we have going on here.

[narrative] zoid puts lampshade on head, drops pants, and dances on coffee table in his Scooby Doo boxers [/narrative]

JimInLoganSquare wrote:I am going to step out on a limb, here, and say that I think this thread has been one of the most insightful, perceptive - and productive - I have seen in the last 8 years on this forum, with respect to one particular point that is really central if tacit in our concern here, that being the concept of taste. We so frequently equivocate on our use of this word, because it really does not have a single underlying meaning, at least not one that can be expressed in a simple, declarative sentence or two, or agreed upon by more than a few smart people. This thread has been about taste as that thing which drives our desire, for something, that we cannot quite explain or excuse. Often, that is something we have had before as a kid, or in a past life; or think we had, or wish we had, or think we ought to have had. I am obviously angling here for a broad definition of taste, one that is more descriptive than proscriptive, but let's keep at it, folks. This is some really, really good cocktail conversation we have going on here.

I'm on that limb with you, Jim.

JimInLoganSquare wrote:This thread has been about taste as that thing which drives our desire, for something, that we cannot quite explain or excuse.

Amen.

White Castle chili
Created of old Sliders
We friend on Facebook

Dorito taco
At loved Taco Bell sucks ass
I forgive TB

I knew this thread would touch off controversy when I saw it...there are a lot of WC lovers and haters. I don't think there is some kind of political capitalist reason why some people like sliders or any other fast food. I don't like them particularly but I would not balk if someone wanted to go there once in a blue moon. I could think of a lot of different burgers to like besides WC. Having said that my mother who is 85 and loves sliders. She does not know anything about food or political stuff but she knows what she likes. She simply likes the taste of them. For her its no guilty pleasure she is not even thinking of guilt. In the end there is no accounting for taste. Somethings taste good to various people, and not to others. What accounts for people on here to eat raccoon? I would not dream of eating it, but I don't really care that some do. I believe in food democracy. You should eat what you like. The one caveat I would have to that is that many foods we eat are not healthy as foods or in quantities that we eat them in and I am hopeful that is kept in mind. I struggle with this myself. Now I must go take a break and eat my Cheetos. Ta ta!!

Pie Lady wrote:I like Taco Bell, which someone above called crap. I remember ages ago, an LTH-er used to work at Taco Bell and said their meat was labeled Grade K...I wonder what grade White Castle uses?

Probably not grade K, since it doesn't exist. See http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Factsheets/Ins ... dex.asp#4a

Beef
Beef is graded as whole carcasses in two ways:
quality grades - for tenderness, juiciness, and flavor; and
yield grades - for the amount of usable lean meat on the carcass. There are eight quality grades for beef. Quality grades are based on the amount of marbling (flecks of fat within the lean), color, and maturity.


Quality Grades:
Prime grade is produced from young, well-fed beef cattle. It has abundant marbling and is generally sold in restaurants and hotels. Prime roasts and steaks are excellent for dry-heat cooking (broiling, roasting, or grilling).

Choice grade is high quality, but has less marbling than Prime. Choice roasts and steaks from the loin and rib will be very tender, juicy, and flavorful and are, like Prime, suited to dry-heat cooking. Many of the less tender cuts, such as those from the rump, round, and blade chuck, can also be cooked with dry heat if not overcooked. Such cuts will be most tender if "braised" — roasted, or simmered with a small amount of liquid in a tightly covered pan.

Select grade is very uniform in quality and normally leaner than the higher grades. It is fairly tender, but, because it has less marbling, it may lack some of the juiciness and flavor of the higher grades. Only the tender cuts (loin, rib, sirloin) should be cooked with dry heat. Other cuts should be marinated before cooking or braised to obtain maximum tenderness and flavor.

Standard and Commercial grades are frequently sold as ungraded or as "store brand" meat.

Utility, Cutter, and Canner grades are seldom, if ever, sold at retail but are used instead to make ground beef and processed products.

Note: Grades such as Prime, Choice and Select are not acceptable terms for raw cuts of pork or poultry.


Yield grades
range from "1" to "5" and indicate the amount of usable meat from a carcass. Yield grade 1 is the highest grade and denotes the greatest ratio of lean to fat; yield grade 5 is the lowest yield ratio. Though yield grades are not something consumers normally see, they are most useful when purchasing a side or carcass of beef for the freezer.

toria wrote:I knew this thread would touch off controversy when I saw it...there are a lot of WC lovers and haters. I don't think there is some kind of political capitalist reason why some people like sliders or any other fast food.

I was just using Marx's theory of "false needs" as an analogy to the alleged phenom of "craving," which I believe to be a sick impulse. Sorry.

"Hate" or "love" are, to me, odd terms to use for food (with people, sure). I wouldn't say I "hate" WC, but I do find them abhorrent.

David Hammond wrote:

toria wrote:I knew this thread would touch off controversy when I saw it...there are a lot of WC lovers and haters. I don't think there is some kind of political capitalist reason why some people like sliders or any other fast food.

I was just using Marx's theory of "false needs" as an analogy to the alleged phenom of "craving," which I believe to be a sick impulse. Sorry.

Well now I never knew I needed a pet rock until I saw one on TV, but you know what? I like it, it makes me giggle. Besides it's my $5 and if I want to spend it on something that makes me giggle I'm free to do so.

Marx can blow it out his ear

zoid wrote:Marx can blow it out his ear

Hard to argue with that.

Here is some facts regarding wc meat from their website.

http://www.whitecastle.com/faqs

They say their meat is a mixture of prime, choice and select meats and comes from a variety of states as well as australia and new zealand. there is no organ meat or bone meal in sliders. They also confirm the onions are dehydrated and have been since WW II.

toria wrote:They also confirm the onions are dehydrated and have been since WW II.

This sentence can be interpreted a couple ways

toria wrote:Here is some facts regarding wc meat from their website.

http://www.whitecastle.com/faqs

They say their meat is a mixture of prime, choice and select meats and comes from a variety of states as well as australia and new zealand. there is no organ meat or bone meal in sliders. They also confirm the onions are dehydrated and have been since WW II.

Just checked out the site. What the heck is this question: 5) Is it Onions or Cabbage on a White Castle Slider?

Cabbage? Do people actually mistake the onions for cabbage (or turnips, apparently) on a WC burger so often that it's the fifth point in the FAQ?

Ha Ha that is a good one . Regarding the cabbage, I thought that was odd too. I think they have a very oniony taste and would not mistake it.

toria wrote: They also confirm the onions are dehydrated and have been since WW II.

Like Genmaicha, also a product of WWII shortages, that is now so beloved among the Japanese.

I do appreciate it when virtue is made of necessity.

Oh come on, now, we're being silly. The only reason I don't eat this stuff is the onions. Mushy things can be delicious. Oniony things can be delicious (if you like onions). Greasy, low-rent, poor-quality things are often delicious - see also, gyros. So let's break down your experience.

1. You had poor expectations, based on unreliable memory so distant that it is unquantifiable, and expectations are psychologically powerful.

2. You had to wait longer than you deemed acceptable. This put you in a bad mood and if you had, indeed, had an open mind - the acceptance of a 'challenge' wouldn't help - this event would have closed it.

3. Your state of mind was further degraded by receiving the wrong order.

4. You don't give any hard information about the taste of the slider, and you say the onion rings are tasteless. Bland and mushy isn't great, but it's not abhorrent, either.

I respect disliking White Castle burgers. I, myself, loathe and despise them - because of the onion flavor, that is - but I get that other people crave them. I don't see how they are qualitatively worse than other fast food, and none of this discussion has proven to me that you had anything except an unsatisfying fast food dining experience - an experience that is utterly common to eating fast food. If you can tell me that, based on one visit and no definitive tasting notes, that this is the lowest of the low, the worst of the worst, then I think you fail to see that your data are compromised. It's ok for you to say, "I don't like these, and I'm baffled that anyone else does," but you can't go on referring people to psychiatrists or telling them they only like these things because of positive association when you only dislike them based on negative association.

David Hammond wrote:I was just using Marx's theory of "false needs" as an analogy to the alleged phenom of "craving," which I believe to be a sick impulse. Sorry.

Groucho or Karl?

David Hammond wrote:Like Genmaicha, also a product of WWII shortages, that is now so beloved among the Japanese.

I do appreciate it when virtue is made of necessity.

No. I've seen all kinds of stories about the origins of genmaicha, but never this one. Understandable, in its way, but no. Genmaicha has been around for at least a century, probably longer. It was invented/discovered/created/whatever to help more expensive tea (a relative term, obviously) last longer. But it was already a well-established item long before WWII.

As to your second sentence, I agree absolutely. Like chicory in coffee, for example. Or many other items.

Gypsy Boy wrote:

David Hammond wrote:Like Genmaicha, also a product of WWII shortages, that is now so beloved among the Japanese.

I do appreciate it when virtue is made of necessity.

No. I've seen all kinds of stories about the origins of genmaicha, but never this one. Genmaicha has been around for at least a century, probably longer. It was invented/discovered/created/whatever to help more expensive tea (a relative term, obviously) last longer. But it was already a well-established item long before WWII.

As to your second sentence, I agree absolutely. Like chicory in coffee, for example. Or many other items.

"The history of the blend marks it around the World War II era in Japan, when people unable to afford large amounts of green tea found that they could cut it with slightly roasted rice. It takes only a handful of rice, a cup or two, to mix with three or four ounces of green tea." http://www.wyrmis.com/tea/genmaicha.html

Which is why we don't rely on the internet for all of our information. Thanks, but I'll take the word of my mother-in-law, born and raised in Japan before World War II. (Or, if you prefer, take a look a any of the dozens of websites tracing it back, variously, to the beginning of the 20th century or even back to the 15th century....)

We've actually discussed the tea because my wife happens to like it (I don't care for it) and so does her mother. I found that interesting because her mother is from a distinctly well-to-do family in Kobe and certainly would never have "needed" to buy genmaicha to save money.

Dave, I'm not saying this site is the foremost authority on genmaicha (that would be your mother-in-law, all due respect, ), but you'd said you'd never heard of the idea that the tea's popularity was due to WWII shortages, though clearly the idea is out there. Even if WWII shortages didn't motivate the creation of this tea, which they may have, they certainly would have made rice-as-tea-helper more of a likely option for the Japanese.

The likelihood that you cited the website to inform me of the origin of your claim didn't hit me until a second or two after I hit the Submit button.

And, much as I am fond of my mother-in-law, she is hardly an authority on genmai or any other cha. It just happens that she likes it, always has, and was apparently exposed at an early age. Just my luck that she happens to be the right age for this portion of the thread.

It points up, though, the larger issue of when something any food item is "created." There's all kinds of nutty (oops, I mean "intriguing") stuff about there on the origins of genmaicha. I'd never thought to look it up on the net before but the creation myths (if I can misappropriate a technical term) are really quite something. A topic of its own, no doubt.

And of course, we have the Korean War with Spam kimbap and buddae jjigae (although the version of Spam sold in Korea is different than the US one.) I also believe Hawaii's Spam musubi has origins in WWII. While Spam may be seen mostly as the butt end of a joke here when it comes to food, it isn't everywhere. Funny how that works.

When the tsunami hit Japan we sent relatives cases of spam along with canned fruit and veg., they were happy to have it.
It ain’t great or anything but I’ve eaten it on camping trips and it does satisfy your fatty, salty needs after a day of hiking. Personally I prefer full belly to a delicate palate.

When you fry it, Spam is actually pretty tasty.( Or try these Spam donuts.) I don't have the same affinity for Armour's comparable product, Treet, for some reason. However, processed ham loaves have always been something I enjoyed, so it's no wonder I like Spam.

How do you feel about Underwood's Devilled Ham? Not a loaf, but delicious cat food nonetheless.

Pie Lady wrote:How do you feel about Underwood's Devilled Ham? Not a loaf, but delicious cat food nonetheless.

Ya know, I don't think I've ever had that. It appears to be spreadable ham, right? I've had Eastern European versions of that type of stuff, but never Underwood's.

It's a ham-like product.

Those white castle sliders are lookin better with every post. Spam aside, do you think that someone who enjoys to eat at places like Alinea or other "top" restaurants could also like wc sliders? Are there people whose palates include each end of the spectrum? From the sublime to the pedestrian???

Oddly enough, I'm writing this post from a booth in a White Castle in Bolingbrook...after following this thread since Mr. Hammond's original post, it occurred to me that it had been a couple of years since my last slider experience, so refreshing my memory on this subject might not be a bad idea. You know, for science.

Having just polished off two jalapeño cheeseburgers (both singles) and a 6-piece order of chicken rings, I have determined that I'm pretty neutral on the sliders...I don't think they're awful, but I don't think they're all that great either. For me, they fell firmly in the "meh" category.

The chicken rings, on the other hand, were pretty damn good...hot out of the fryer, perfectly fried crispy coating, juicy white meat chicken, not ground meat, no odd chewy bits. People who consider these things to be "abominations" are guilty of either judging a book by its cover, or of blindly jumping on the anti-chicken ring bandwagon.

Of the off chance that I find myself party to a drunken White Castle outing, I know I'll be able to order a 9-piece chicken ring and a soda, and will be A-OK.

One interesting tidbit I learned: the 30-slider Crave Case isn't the biggest thing on the menu; that honor goes to the $66 100-slider Crave Crate ($84 for all cheeseburgers, $85 for all jalapeño cheeseburgers, mixing & matching is allowed). 2012 LTH Picnic idea?

toria wrote:Those white castle sliders are lookin better with every post. Spam aside, do you think that someone who enjoys to eat at places like Alinea or other "top" restaurants could also like wc sliders? Are there people whose palates include each end of the spectrum? From the sublime to the pedestrian???

Of course. Just read the posting histories of many LTH'ers.