Vital Information wrote:

John Danza wrote:

Vital Information wrote:He also has Trotter's to Go and packaged goods, a bunch of cookbooks and a few TV shows, so he's not just manning the line.

I've always loved "The Kitchen Sessions" TV shows and have all the VHS tapes (not sure if they're in DVD). The recipes work very well and I've found that in some cases, the way he does them on the TV show actually works better than the translation that is in the companion cookbook.

One of the key cooking lessons from this show is, "when in doubt, add butter."

I thought that was the key lesson from Julia Child's "The French Chef" shows.

I remember watching the first show of the first season of Kitchen Sessions and seeing Charlie stir a pot with a spoon, taste with the spoon and the continue to stir the pot with said spoon

Kind of grossed me out....

mhill95149 wrote:I remember watching the first show of the first season of Kitchen Sessions and seeing Charlie stir a pot with a spoon, taste with the spoon and the continue to stir the pot with said spoon

Kind of grossed me out....

Yeah, that made an impression on me too. I noticed that it happened for a few episodes, and then he stopped and instead had a bunch of spoons ready for tasting. Someone must have pointed it out to him.

Regarding the restaurant in Cabo, we went several times while it was still Trotter's. The first time we had a meal that was better than any we had at his restaurant here in Chicago. The menu was extremely local, and was a great take on Mexican fine dining. Over the course of several more visits the menu was relentlessly tinkered with to the point where it just became another upscale hotel restaurant. We also heard about quite a bit of turmoil in the kitchen.

I suspect Trotter got out for a number of reasons, but a drop off in tourism because of drug violence almost certainly was not one of them.

John Danza wrote:

mhill95149 wrote:I remember watching the first show of the first season of Kitchen Sessions and seeing Charlie stir a pot with a spoon, taste with the spoon and the continue to stir the pot with said spoon

Kind of grossed me out....

Yeah, that made an impression on me too. I noticed that it happened for a few episodes, and then he stopped and instead had a bunch of spoons ready for tasting. Someone must have pointed it out to him.

Well, I did call a mutual friend to complain about the double dipping! Maybe, he told Charlie?

mhill95149 wrote:I remember watching the first show of the first season of Kitchen Sessions and seeing Charlie stir a pot with a spoon, taste with the spoon and the continue to stir the pot with said spoon

Kind of grossed me out....

In 'Down and Out in Paris and London' George Orwell wrote:In the kitchen the dirt was worse. It is not a figure of speech, it is a mere statement of fact to say that a French cook will spit in the soup-- that is, if he is not going to drink it himself. He is an artist, but his art is not cleanliness. To a certain extent he is even dirty because he is
an artist, for food, to look smart, needs dirty treatment. When a steak, for instance, is brought up for the head cook's inspection, he does not handle it with a fork. He picks it up in his fingers and slaps it down, runs his thumb round the dish and licks it to taste the gravy, runs it round and licks again, then steps back and contemplates the piece of meat like an artist judging a picture, then presses it lovingly into place with his fat, pink fingers, every one of which he has licked a hundred times that morning. When he is satisfied, he takes a cloth and wipes his fingerprints from the dish, and hands it to the waiter. And the waiter, of course, dips HIS fingers into the gravy--his nasty, greasy fingers which he is for ever running through his brilliantined hair. Whenever one pays more than, say, ten francs for a dish of meat in Paris, one may be certain that it has been fingered in this manner. In very cheap restaurants it is different; there, the same trouble is not taken over the food, and it is just forked out of the pan and flung on to a plate, without handling. Roughly speaking, the more one pays for food, the more sweat and spittle one is obliged to eat with it.

Emphasis mine. Do we really expect anything has changed in 80 years?

Ditto. I thought of exactly the same quotation. Well put, George Orwell.

Before Charlie Trotter closes his restaurant and moves on, may I suggest that this story, told recently by Michael Ruhlman on his blog, is a fine tribute.

"When Charlie Trotter’s Kitchen Sessions won [the James Beard award] in the 'Cooking From a Professional Perspective' category, the wrongness of it was so clear that Trotter himself sought to correct the situation by telling the audience that while he and Michael Chiarello were deservedly proud of their books, the award so clearly deserved to go to The French Laundry Cookbook that he was going to give Thomas the medal after the ceremony. (He tried, but Thomas wouldn’t accept it, so Trotter sent it to him, and I later saw the award and the letter from Trotter framed in The French Laundry offices.)"

Has anyone had the (N/A) Beverage Tasting pairing before and can comment if it is worth the $65?

A few years ago I had the non-alcoholic beverage tasting, and I enjoyed it (it may have changed). Not as much as the wine tasting, but a lot more than water. Not all the offerings were equally delicious, but as a whole it worked. If someone is a non-drinker, I would recommend it.

My husband and I jumped on the NA beverage offering and we were pleased. It was better than soda & like GAF's experience, it worked way better than just having water. Some offering were better than others. This was also a few years ago, but we were both pleased that they had been thoughtful enough to consider those of us who liked good food but were sitting in the peanut gallery when it came to beverages.

I hope that it catches on with other restaurants.

Enjoy!

pairs4life wrote:I hope that it catches on with other restaurants.

Thanks for the responses. I know Next does N/A pairings and I thoroughly enjoyed it for the Childhood menu. I am a drinker but I just don't love wine so much that I'd want to pay the $175 for the pairing. Generally I find N/A pairings more diverse and interesting than just straight wine. However, if it's a mixed alcohol pairing like from Next:elBulli then I'm all over that (if it's not outrageously priced).

Had a fantastic meal at Charlie Trotter's Kitchen Table a few weeks ago. We thought everything was great and each dish was progressively better than the last.

We started with a bento box with 6 different dishes in them. (Almost) all seafood and very good. One of the coolest first course that I've seen.

(Clockwise from top left)
Lobster with Kohlrabi & Bonito
Kumamoto Oyster with Chanterelle Mushrooms
Geoduck Clam with English Peas & Miso
Big Eye Tuna with Sunchoke & Fennel
Caramelized Cauliflower with Celery Sorbet
Uni with Crispy Shallot


Hamachi with Cuttlefish Ink & Green Tomato Purée

This came with the first of many bread courses, all of which were quite tasty:



Poached White Asparagus with Manchego Cheese & Piquillo Peppers

A very tasty vegetable course that shows what Charlie Trotter can do with some fresh vegetables.


Skate Wing with Umeboshi & Cherry Blossom Emulsion

There was also a chicken skin sauce in this dish that was amazing.


Crispy Tofu with Red Curry & Peach

This tofu was made in house and extremely delicious.


Roasted Guinea Hen with Sweet Corn & Huitlacoche


Berkshire Pork with Orange Curd & Black Garlic Sponge


One-Hour Poached Hen's Egg with Morels & Australian Black Truffles

This was an amazing course. Probably my favorite of the night. The combination of the runny egg with the truffles and morels was just incredible.


Roasted Squab with Red Wine Braised Cabbage

Another great course. The real star was the miso tortellini.


Muscovy Duck with Coconut & Valrhona Chocolate

This course was good but I feel that the duck could have been cooked a little better.


Lamb Loin with Oats, Parsley Risotto & Maitake Mushrooms

Another delicious meat course.


Chaource Lincet with Peach Marmalade, Onions & Olive Oil

A truly amazing cheese course.


Meyer Limoncello Sorbet with Rosemary Puff Pastry & Szechuan Peppercorns

The first of 3 dessert courses and, not surprisingly at this point, delectable.




Zucchini Cake & Blossom with Basil & Saffron Reduction
Thyme-Glazed Brioche with Georgia Blueberry Compote




Triple Criollo Riviera Cake with Port Gastrique & Strawberry-Tonka Bean Sorbet
Mocha Ice Cream with Almond Dacquoise


As I stated above, the meal was essentially flawless. It was probably the best meal I've had in my life. I thought it was better than Next: elBulli. It deeply saddens me that I'll never be able to eat here again. I agree with Vettel that Trotter hasn't lost a step after 25 years.

Nice report Fropones, and glad you enjoyed. I really like the sound of your menu a lot more than the menu I was served a few months ago (documented on prior page). And not only is the plating far more attractive, but it also appears that you were not overly sweetened (as I'd say I was). Not sure what it all means, but I certainly agree with you that the loss of Charlie Trotter's is a loss for our city.

BR wrote:And not only is the plating far more attractive

Seriously? Every one of the plates pictured looks equally slapdash...I'm actually somewhat amazed at the consistency of the imprecision, because it couldn't have been intentional. They evoke nothing so much as Moto's Roadkill. If a Michelin inspector received one of those plates at a ** in France, they'd be wiping sauce off their monocle.

kl1191 wrote:

BR wrote:And not only is the plating far more attractive

Seriously? Every one of the plates pictured looks equally slapdash...I'm actually somewhat amazed at the consistency of the imprecision, because it couldn't have been intentional. They evoke nothing so much as Moto's Roadkill. If a Michelin inspector received one of those plates at a ** in France, they'd be wiping sauce off their monocle.

I suppose my judgment and taste is less skilled.

I'm not concerned about the plating, which seems very much within the canons of modernist cuisine. A few weeks ago, I had a very fine and final meal at Trotter's. They were at the top of their game, but it struck me that the game was very much a 1987 game. In other words, there was not so much a concern with sourcing ingredients (Trotter's is not a farm-to-table or foraging restaurant like Vie or North Pond or Noma) nor was there much concern with modernist technique (Trotters is not Alinea or Avenues under Bowles or Duffy). The dinner was both delicious and nostalgic for a post-Fusion moment in which a chef, like CT, could thoughtfully and wisely select ingredients that worked together, without forcing the combinations in the fusion tradition (Cajun Stir Fry with BBQ Sauce) or amazing the diner with the "idea" of food.

I will miss Trotter's for what it has done so well over the decades.

BR wrote:

kl1191 wrote:

BR wrote:And not only is the plating far more attractive

Seriously? Every one of the plates pictured looks equally slapdash...I'm actually somewhat amazed at the consistency of the imprecision, because it couldn't have been intentional. They evoke nothing so much as Moto's Roadkill. If a Michelin inspector received one of those plates at a ** in France, they'd be wiping sauce off their monocle.

I suppose my judgment and taste is less skilled.

Sorry, I didn't mean that to come off so ad hominem, but look at those plates...sauces just flung all over, pools of various melting/congealing components running everywhere. Yeesh. The upper left bowl of the bento is a train wreck. The edges on various others obviously weren't wiped down. I'm not at all saying that food need look pristine to be delicious, but I'd expect better at Trotter's price point. There's a fine line between artistic plating and sheer sloppiness.

kl1191 wrote:Sorry, I didn't mean that to come off so ad hominem, but look at those plates...sauces just flung all over, pools of various melting/congealing components running everywhere. Yeesh. The upper left bowl of the bento is a train wreck. The edges on various others obviously weren't wiped down. I'm not at all saying that food need look pristine to be delicious, but I'd expect better at Trotter's price point. There's a fine line between artistic plating and sheer sloppiness.

A group of us dined here recently, and at the time, I thought the plating was atrocious as well. Unfortunately, that wasn't the only thing off. The biggest problem, as said above, is that the food and the restaurant were carefully pickled and preserved in time (ca. 1990), and seemed tired and unaware that the diner's sensibilities had moved on since 1990. (Does anyone still think that eating in near darkness in a restaurant with damask wallcoverings and stodgy carpeting is the height of chic?) I pondered whether Charlie himself ever dined out over the years (or just hibernated in his wine cellars), because if he had, wouldn't he have been inspired to "modernize" the food and the restaurant at all?

As for how the food tasted, there were maybe two great dishes, a lot of mediocre ones that might have impressed if it was my first time dining at this level (or it was 1987), and some dishes where the execution and flavors were far off the mark. The one-hour poached egg on my friend's dish was so slippery that it seemed like, well, I won't say, and evoked more of a giggle than gustatory pleasure. And as always with Trotter's there's one dessert course too many. I realize that Trotter's doesn't aim to be a farm-to-table restaurant (another point of obliviousness for the restaurant), but I found a blueberry-focused dessert with mediocre, thick-skinned fresh blueberries that was served one month before really great local blueberries could be had here to be either a mark of stubbornness or cluelessness or perhaps even a show of fatigue or limitation on the kitchen. At this price point, with that level of expertise, they couldn't come up with something more creative, timely, and delicious?

Having said that, I felt like the meal was, overall, grounded in nostalgia, and that's not totally unpleasant. My dining companions had all been there before (but, like me, not for many years) so there was a sense of saying goodbye to something (our youth? our thirties? I don't know). I think diners have a way of sensing when a restaurant is resting on its laurels, so in that regard, I feel that the closing -- though reported to be induced by Trotter's desire to pursue a philosophy degree --could have been avoided had the kitchen attempted to evolve even just minimally with the times.

Aschie raises a very interesting issue (separate from her middle paragraph with which I take no issue, as there were bad dishes in 1987). The question is whether food styles progress or merely change. I tend toward the second view; Aschie the first. CT's vision was formed in the 1980s (It has changed, but not so much.) But it was important then and should it matter if CT continues with his vision? Has CT been "pickled" or have we? I love going to La Grenouille in New York (no Chicago equivalent) to get some of those 1960s classics, artfully served in a "slightly" snooty (never snotty) environment. It is not Alinea, but it is magic. People say that nostalgia is possible after a generation of 30 years. We may pine for Charlie in 2017, when perhaps he will be Professor T.

FYI - to be clear, when I said that the plating was "far more attractive" than when I dined there a few months ago, I was referring to the colors on the plate, which I found to be far more vibrant than when I dined there a few months earlier, and not splatters and the like (although that might bother me a little less than others anyway).

As for the dining room, yes, really tired. I'm not even sure my parents would disagree. And sitting next to the wallpaper, I noticed stains - how long they have been there I have no idea.

As for the food, aside from the fact that the dining scene has exploded in Chicago in the last 15 years or so, I wonder how easy it is for Trotter's to function at the highest level at this point in time? Other than Charlie Trotter, do they have access to the very best kitchen talent? If you were a talented chef in the kitchen of a restaurant that you know is closing in a month, would you stick around or would you be pounding the pavement looking for a new position? Maybe there's some arrangement/motivation in place to ensure that the kitchen talent sticks around through the end of August, but I just don't know. And whereas those wanting to push the boundaries of food had few places to look in the 80's and early 90's (just look at all of the top chefs who have worked at Trotter's), there are far more outstanding restaurants in Chicago these days, and even more where creativity seems to be pushed well beyond where Trotter's is today.

I agree about the decor. CT was never the most stunning dining room in town, more functional than magical. I noticed the decor as well. I think that it will be a "tear-down."

The last few Post's are a little late to the party.
Charlie certainly deserves credit for the small plates degustation in Chicago and will be long remembered. Charlie did a fine job and no one really cares about how the kitchen is doing these days with the End in sight.
We are now at the era where the dining and Posting with excessive pictures and commentary appears to be more important than the actual act of eating good food and drinking good wine with friends.
Me, I long ago withdrew from eating at the restaurants of the 'Chef De Jour', actually a few years after eating at Charlie's Kitchen Table. Now I search out family restaurants serving quality food. One has to to look very carefully because the chains go to great lengths to disguise there 'chain' affiliation but these type of restaurants are there for the dining and to me offer a far better eating experience.
Certainly Charlie will join Banchet and afew others that put Chicago fine dining on the map and to commiserate on plating and other aspects of Trotter's at this point in time serves no purpose except to read your own Post on LTH.-Dick

GAF wrote:Aschie raises a very interesting issue (separate from her middle paragraph with which I take no issue, as there were bad dishes in 1987). The question is whether food styles progress or merely change. I tend toward the second view; Aschie the first. CT's vision was formed in the 1980s (It has changed, but not so much.) But it was important then and should it matter if CT continues with his vision? Has CT been "pickled" or have we? I love going to La Grenouille in New York (no Chicago equivalent) to get some of those 1960s classics, artfully served in a "slightly" snooty (never snotty) environment. It is not Alinea, but it is magic. People say that nostalgia is possible after a generation of 30 years. We may pine for Charlie in 2017, when perhaps he will be Professor T.

Very well said. The comments about time capsule or stuck in the 90s are so silly. The fact is that the French have set the world standard for cuisine for a very long time, and you don't see them changing with the trend-of-the-day. The "farm to table" trend is interesting, but doesn't translate into better dishes. Sure it's great to use local sources, but Trotter's been doing that for so long he doesn't have to advertise it to pretend he's hip. Frankly, I don't give a damn if an ingredient is local or not. I only care that it's the best and that it's prepared properly. The rest of the comments are just folks wanting to try to impress others that they're going to the latest hot restaurant. Whatever.

Oh come on. There's always been a debate between the value of classic and progressive cuisine. It's nonsense to dismiss either one.

And to say that people shouldn't post about or discuss some of the final meals at a legendary restaurant is completely bizarre to me. I mean, let's just shut down the forum if we're going to question people's motives for (shock!) posting about a meal they ate in a restaurant.

John Danza wrote:The comments about time capsule or stuck in the 90s are so silly.

I suppose my comments (as that's what you're referring to) are no more silly than:

John Danza wrote:The fact is that the French have set the world standard for cuisine for a very long time, and you don't see them changing with the trend-of-the-day.

Whatever.

GAF wrote:Aschie raises a very interesting issue (separate from her middle paragraph with which I take no issue, as there were bad dishes in 1987). The question is whether food styles progress or merely change. I tend toward the second view; Aschie the first. CT's vision was formed in the 1980s (It has changed, but not so much.) But it was important then and should it matter if CT continues with his vision? Has CT been "pickled" or have we? I love going to La Grenouille in New York (no Chicago equivalent) to get some of those 1960s classics, artfully served in a "slightly" snooty (never snotty) environment. It is not Alinea, but it is magic. People say that nostalgia is possible after a generation of 30 years. We may pine for Charlie in 2017, when perhaps he will be Professor T.

In the interest of moving past the discussion-killing snark and continuing this discussion, IMO, a restaurant shouldn't doggedly adhere to a Chef's vision if doing so makes it less economically viable or pushes it to the point of becoming kitsch or nostalgia. IIRC, didn't Achatz decide to move past foams? There are small ways to continuing honing your product (or "vision") without completely obliterating it. I think Keller has done that well so far. My sense is that Achatz would rather shut down Alinea entirely rather than having it become populated with nostalgia diners. I would respect that if it were true.

BR wrote:As for the food, aside from the fact that the dining scene has exploded in Chicago in the last 15 years or so, I wonder how easy it is for Trotter's to function at the highest level at this point in time? [. . . ] And whereas those wanting to push the boundaries of food had few places to look in the 80's and early 90's (just look at all of the top chefs who have worked at Trotter's), there are far more outstanding restaurants in Chicago these days, and even more where creativity seems to be pushed well beyond where Trotter's is today.

I think this is true. Back when Arun's was downgraded, I called it "The Blackbird Effect." Certainly not all will agree, but I see the opening of Blackbird as representing a distinct shift in Chicago dining, towards the more distinctly (non-French referential) American, toward the more experimental, casual, artisanal, heritage, creative, and more consciousness-less flashiness in sourcing its ingredients. Even considering how fast all of these changes to our dining scene happened, I still believe that Trotter could have made some effort to keep up -- if only to redecorate his dining room and tweak his service. Paul Kahan, Curtis Duffy, and certainly Grant Achatz he is not, but nor would we want him to be.

The problem with this assessment, as I see it, is that Aschie assumes that she knows what Charlie's vision should be. If his vision has remained constant (not that the dishes are identical with 1987, he HAS changed some), he should remain true to what he believes. Obviously he might suffer in terms of customer response (although my sense is that the restaurant remained viable financially). There can be a distinction between kitsch and tradition. I am happy that there (still) is CT and Alinea, and only wish that Le Francais was still around, and even The Bakery. Let us encourage restaurants that are Farm-to-Table, Molecular, Modernist, Paleo, and all the rest. And with Iliana Regan's Elizabeth Restaurant (scheduled to open in the early fall) perhaps we will have our first Noma-style restaurant that emphasizes foraged plants.

GAF wrote:The problem with this assessment, as I see it, is that Aschie assumes that she knows what Charlie's vision should be.

I do? In fairness, I don't think I said that.

Sorry to be "late to the game" but my meal last month was truly the worst $850 I have ever spent. There was no 1 reason I came to this conclusion but rather a series of faults.

Ok so the menu is kind of stuck in amber, who cares if the food taste good right? Sitting here today 1 month later the most exciting bite I can remember was an Eel terrine and what excited me was that it made me think of the flawless version I has day's earlier at Yusho. The one I was offered at Trotters was a poor comp to such a well made dish and at a much higher margin and I couldn’t help but keep going back to that. Plating overall was extremely sloppy with thin sauces making a mess over many plates as shown above.

I was 5 minutes early for the table and was left first to sit alone in the waiting area with no offer of water, champagne, etc and then finally seated and again left alone. We had courses where plates were left to sit empty for longer than 10 minutes without clearing, all the while Charlie was walking the room, smiling and laughing with other customers. While I wouldn’t consider myself a lush (despite my screen name) the guest I had with me and myself finished the paired wine pour before receiving a few courses both because of the extremely small pours as well as timing errors that left us with food for periods of time. When I joked about paying more so we could enjoy with the meal we were meet with stone faces.

And last as someone who has and does spend extreme amounts of time in a professional kitchen the tour of the kitchen at the end of the night was the worst part. While the intern showing us around was very chipper looking at the state of the kitchen after our service I wasn't surprised one bit at the meal we received. I will say I never worked for Trotter but almost everyone I have worked with in Chicago at some time has and there is no way this was the kitchen they spent their time.

Really didn't want to write this but seems like giving him an out just because he's closing is the wrong thing to do. Also standing behind what you do is one thing, but there is no way Charlie Trotter, international chef of renown got that way with the food he is currently serving.

Regards,

Bourbon