up style pasties in 2 Rivers, WI

I was coming back from Door County yesterday and decided to take the more scenic 42 south along the lake. As I was coming into the town of Two Rivers, there on the very northern edge of town sat a tiny blue shack-ish tavern with a fading, hand-painted sign that said "Stone's Pasties." I have never had a pasty but have always wanted to. I pulled over and it wasn't until I pulled the door open that I realized I was going into a bar at 1 pm, a bar that happened to serve pasties. It's a small place, only 10 or so barstools and a couple of video games. There was a woman behind the bar and another woman at the bar having a beer. For about 9 seconds I was wondering if I'd made the right choice, I'm no prude, but eating in a small town bar alone during the day . . . but then the woman behind the bar greeted me warmly and I asked if there were, in fact, pasties to be had and she said yes, but today, just beef. So I perched upon a bar stool and ordered one pasty and a lemonade.

Here's the funny part, I actually had the New Yorker folded over in my hand as if I was going to sit at this bar all literary and solo and citified and read the damn magazine, the other two women be damned. There's a certain time for everything and I quickly realized the best way to feel comfortable with my hostess and my neighbor to my left wasn't to bury my nose in the stupid magazine but rather just relax and talk if talk was to be had. Like I said, I ordered a lemonade which again is so anti-bar to be hysterical or just stupid, but my host said, "I think I've got one back there," in a matter of fact way, coming back a few minutes later with a can of Countrytime, perhaps from the family stash. Typing this now, I am sort of shocked that she didn't guffaw in my face and the lady to my left didn't spray Schlitz out her nose, but anyhow, I am doing this to tell you about pasties so let me cut to the pasty I ate.

It was beautiful. It came with a rough twisted crust around the edge and I was thrilled that she put in an oven to bake off rather than nuke it, which is death to pastry in any form in any place. She asked me if I wanted gravy or ketchup with my pasty and this is where we started to really warm up to each other. I said honestly ( a good case for honesty in a small bar in a town you've never been in as an entry way for really lovely conversation) "You know, I've never had a pasty before, I'm trying one here for the first time, so what do you like?" And she actually winked at me and said without missing a beat, "Well then I'll bring you both." And the woman to my left leaned over and said, "I say go with the gravy."

The crust was flaky and crisp and not soggy in any way even though the filling was moist and really savory, for lack of a better word. I'm a huge fan of different cultures' hand-pies, but for example, when I eat an El Mercado beef empanada I'm sort of delighted and terrfied by the amount of oil seepage.

It had beef in rough chopped bits and onion and potato and something else . . . when I asked Sharon, the owner, who made them ("I do," very nonchalantly) what else I was tasting, she said "Rutabegas!" And that was the bonus zing. But why pasties here? I asked. She told me that her husband is from the UP (Upper Peninsula of Michigan) and after they were married they lived there for 22 years, raising their kids. But she missed her family so they moved back to Two Rivers. Pasties are Cornish in origin, the wives of miners needed to make something hearty that was easy to carry and easy to eat, so they made pasties, a hand pie, which Sharon told me they'd wrap in newspaper and the newspaper would keep them insulated. Apparently the UP is where a lot of Cornish settled because if you do a google search on pasties, you'll find all kinds of info on pasties in the UP, I even found an academic paper on the cultural significance of pasties in the Cornish community of UP.

The condiments offered were funny or just pallid. I get the kethcup thing, I lived in Australia and learned how to smother cheap meat pies with "tomato sauce" ketchup. But I leaned toward the gravy, given my own inkling and my friend to the left's suggestion. It was, as far as I can tell, the gravy you make from those 79 cent packets by McKormick. So here you have this amazing pie with a hand made crust and then it's paired with gravy from a packet. Oh well, I dipped it in a dabble of gravy, but I enjoyed it best just eating it solo.

I ordered 2 more to go, to share with my family. Sharon smiled and said, "I guess that means you enjoyed the first one." Indeed.

So if you're in the Two Rivers area, I encourage you to grab a barstool at the tiny Stone's Tavern and try a pasty.

Also, fyi, the town's welcome sign said that Two Rivers is home to the ice cream sundae, but I was too full to explore that bit of culinary history.

bjt

Ah, a pasty virgin. My mom grew up in the UP, and we go back there with some regularity, so I grew up eating pasties on the shores of lake superior. It was quite something.

That being said, I'm completely and utterly sick of them now. Even the best made pasties are really bland to me.

I was always a ketchup guy.. I don't even remember a gravy option.

What were the varieties normally available besides beef? The only option I've ever seen has been rutabaga or no rutabaga.

Well technically I am no longer a pasty virgin (smile) although I did want to pronounce it pay-stee not paa-stee, until someone corrected me and said pay-stees are what strippers use.

They listed beef, vegetable and a third, maybe it was chicken. I am not certain. She said sometimes they use turnips and sometimes they use rutabegas. I told her that it reminded me of the Russian bierochs (sp?) my father used to bring home from a neighborhood bakery in Fresno, CA. But the pastry on the pasty was so much nicer than the pastry on the bierochs. (I always thought they were called Beer Rocks.)

Sorry to hear your tired of them. I don't think I'll get tired of pastry stuffed with savory things . . . not matter what you call them. Actually I have a whole fanatasy food article floating around my head of all the different sorts of hand pies one can encounter in the Chicago area.

cheers!

bjt

Great tale!

Two Rivers seemed like a cool town (we do not know any other way but to take 42 from Door County ), but the construction scared us away from anything. Now, I have more reason to try. The whole strip, from Manitiowoc thru to Algoma seems worth further exploration.

Rob

BJT,

My one experience, a few weeks ago, with a pastie was not quite as delicious as yours. I sampled rutabaga pastie from Mackinaw Pastie and thought it doughy, tasteless and not worth taking a second taste.

You experience, from the nice conversation to the delicious pastie, makes me want to give them another try, especially if I am ever within range of Stone's Pasties.

Enjoy,
Gary

Jean Kay's, my family's long time favorite pasty purveyor, will also ship frozen half-baked pasties to your door.

They take about 45 minutes to finish in the oven, but they're about 95% of the real thing, without the 6 hour car trip.

Jean Kay's

I drive through Two Rivers every year, past Stone's and another pastie place whose name escapes me, that also touts its homemade soup, and wonder. My Algoma friend and host has always provided reviews more like gleam's and gwiv's but I really should try for myself, shouldn't I?

thanks bjt

All right. Time for me to chime in. Pasties vary enormously. The world is full of lousy pasties. Although Antonius will no doubt produce definitive and convincing proof that the pasty is really a classic Ligurian dish, my version of the history is that it originated in Cornwall and traveled to mining communities all over the world with the experienced Cornish miners. We yoopers always believed that we, and in particular the Finns among us, perfected the form.

I grew up (from age two) in a non-native household and my mother did not make, and still does not like, pasties. But we had good friends--Finnish miners in fact-- who had them often, and pasty sales were a traditional church fundraiser. After I married and moved to Detroit, we sampled most of the pasty shops between the Mackinac Bridge and Marquette. Most of them produced terrible pasties--hamburger with frozen potatoes and commercial gravy. But some were legendary. I remember in particular, Lehto's, about eight miles west of the bridge, as worth scheduling our travel times around. They usually ran out by 1 or 2, so we had to be sure to leave Detroit early enough to make it there by then.

What is alleged to be the Lehto's recipe is here. Although I don't recognize the bouillion, the rest of it seems authentic enough, in particular the specially coarse ground steak (which UP grocery stores sell in their meat counters), the suet, and the rutabaga. I happen to believe that a pasty made without rutabaga is not worth eating, but others, inexplicably, disagree.

Jean Kay, as Ed noted, makes a very good half-baked pasty that survives shipping well.

Always ketchup. Never gravy.

One of the best UP websites, pasty cam is sponsored by a retirement home that makes and sells pasties on-line as a major source of financial support. I hear they're good. I've not tried them myself. The website is wonderful, at least if you're intrigued by the thought of looking at photos of bears visiting hummingbird feeders.

Ann Fisher wrote:... Although Antonius will not doubt produce definitive and convincing proof that the pasty is really a classic Ligurian dish, my version of the history is that it originated in Cornwall and traveled to mining communities all over the world with the experienced Cornish miners.

As you probably know, Ann, being well versed in this dish's history, the Cornish miners also brought pasties to the state of Hidalgo in Mexico, where they are called pastes. Here is a link. Photo of pasties about half way down; recipe at the bottom.

By the way, those Cornish miners in Hidalgo are also said to have introduced soccer to Mexico.

Amata

Thanks Amata for that link and photo. Being the linguistic klutz I am, I had to resort to the google translation to see if they included rutabaga (no, but meat from the head of the cow sounds promising). Best quote

The Popes wash themselves and they sour in small pictures

That Google Translator! I'm afraid it gets a "D" for this one.

I had to see this for myself, so I googlized that stretch of text. Yes, indeed, it gives this as the "recipe":

Ingredients for the filling

1 kilo of fresh Pope
½ kilo of meat ground of head of cattle
perforated Onion
Parsley or perforated pore
Salt and black pepper to the taste

wash the Popes and they sour in small pictures. It is mixed with the meat and the other ingredients and fill up tortillas immediately.

How can we tell the Google translator that el papa is the Pope but la papa is the potato?

The recipe in Spanish doesn't call specifically for meat from the head -- it just says "ground beef". (I wonder if Google somehow stuck in "head" as in counting so many head of cattle?)

Chop the onion, don't perforate it.

"pore" should be 'leek'.

The first line of the instructions should be "The potatoes are washed and chopped into small pieces."

Ann -- thanks for a great laugh this morning!

Amata

Ann Fisher wrote:All right. Time for me to chime in. Pasties vary enormously. The world is full of lousy pasties. Although Antonius will not doubt produce definitive and convincing proof that the pasty is really a classic Ligurian dish, my version of the history is that it originated in Cornwall and traveled to mining communities all over the world with the experienced Cornish miners.

Ann:

Well, in fact there is good evidence that the ancient Ligurians...



No, no... I have no doubt that the Cornish can reasonably and legitimately claim their pasties as a product of their own culinary culture. Of course, generally similar items -- pastry-like dough with savoury fillings -- are also made all around the world (including Finnland, as your link indicates in connexion with the interesting U.P. developments). Sometimes, there are real and direct or indirect connexions between the appearance of such things in different cultures but there is too great an urge for people to assume that there must be such connexions. Independent, parallel development of similar cultural items and institutions is actually a pretty common thing and I think it reasonable to assume that there is no reason to assume [redundancy intentionally on purpose], for example, that Cornish pasties are in any meaningful way derived from or the source of roughly similar savoury little turnovers that are made in Georgia (by the Black Sea). On the other hand, there are good reasons to assume that the Cornish had a hand in their appearance in, for example, Argentina, since the Cornish (and Welsh, who also eat pasties) settled there in some numbers and, so far as I know, evidence for a tradition of pasty making among the Guaraní or native peoples of Patagonia is wanting.

But how neat a line can be drawn between Hispano-Argentine empanadas and Cornish-Argentine pasties? Anyone out there know?

*

I would guess that the folks around Scranton and the mining area of northeastern Pennsylvania eat pasties too.

*

By the way, have you tried the Georgian little savoury pasty-like thingies (I can't remember the name) that they make at Argo Georgian Bakery (2812 Devon)? They're swell. But no ketchup.



Antonius

P.S. The article by the Lockwoods that you link to is great. Many thanks.

______

lauar th'ymmo er the fyth
pandra yv ol guyryoneth
pan geusyth mur annotho

Tell me on thy faith,
What all is the truth?
Since thou speakest much of it.
-- from the medieval Cornish mystery play Passion of Our Lord.

One pasty mystery is why no one is making them (as far as I know) in Chicago. I suppose there may have been more U.P. migration to Detroit than to Chicago, but there are plenty of yoopers here. We have a another family across the alley from us in Oak Park, and another three doors down. Two other families on the block regularly vacation there--one of them owns a cottage there. I doubt that every block contains such a cluster, but the lack of jobs in the UP has forced lots of migration to the big cities, and Chicago not only has a better job market, it's also closer to most of the U.P. than Detroit is. Not far away, DeKalb has a lot of Finns many of them with U.P. connections. I doubt if there's enough market to set up a pasty-only business, but you'd think that some enterprising baker would pick it up as a niche.

Don't you lingo people track filled dumplings and domesticated horses through history and around the globe (and back to the Caucasus) to support etymological connections?

To me, so far, the pasty is a evolutionary dead-end, the least of the filled dumplings (due to blandness, mostly). But I'm sure that better pasties than those I've eaten in the UP must exist. I know it must be true, because there are people here whose taste I trust and they say so. But it is also true that one can get some really bad pasties in the UP without trying too hard.

JeffB wrote:Don't you lingo people track filled dumplings and domesticated horses through history and around the globe (and back to the Caucasus) to support etymological connections?

Only when it suits our ulterior motives. !

***

One theory... Or as they say on those shows hosted by Leonard Nimoy...
Some scientists believe that the pasty was brought to Cornwall from Italy by soldiers of the VI-th 'Fulgata' Legion* (also known as the 'pasta replena' Legion). Evidence for this can be found in the fact that pasties are made and sold in the gateway to the north, Kenosha, at...

[url=http://lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=19318#19318]Ruffolo's International Foods
Home-Made Style Italian Specialities (link)[/url]

Some scientists disagree about what the side-by-side presence of raviolo and pasty indicates and attribute Cornish culinary traditions to contacts with alien life-forms. Please note the frequency with which crop-circles appear in southern Britain and the proximity of Cornwall to Stonehenge.

Sorry for the interruption.
Over and out.

Antonius

One pasty mystery is why no one is making them (as far as I know) in Chicago. I suppose there may have been more U.P. migration to Detroit than to Chicago, but there are plenty of yoopers here.

Yes-- they came here to FLEE pasties!

Mike G wrote:they came here to FLEE pasties!

Very sad. Another person who's never had a good pasty. Such ignorance!

Ann Fisher wrote:

Mike G wrote:they came here to FLEE pasties!

Very sad. Another person who's never had a good pasty. Such ignorance!

I've had good pasties, and I was going to suggest the same reason as Mike

Vital Information wrote:Great tale!

Two Rivers seemed like a cool town (we do not know any other way but to take 42 from Door County ), but the construction scared us away from anything. Now, I have more reason to try. The whole strip, from Manitiowoc thru to Algoma seems worth further exploration.

Rob

Yes, 13 years ago I traveled through this area on a mini-vacation with the Ex-Mrs. JiLS. Went to Two Rivers specifically to try a sundae at the alleged originator of the treat, but they were CLOSED when we got there. Wandering the back roads between Manitowoc and Two Rivers, we stumbled upon the most amazing little village that consisted entirely of tiny homes I can only describe as Gnome Huts or perhaps the village of Hobbiton -- conical, whimsical, and ornately painted little homes. I wish GPS had existed at the time, because I'm sure I'd never find this little sanctuary of architectural folly again. Anybody know what I'm talking about, here? I think I recall the gnomes pounding out pasties on anvils while glaring viciously and sweating profusely.

I had pasties in London and they were fat-besotted and not tasty.

Ditto Pittsburgh.

Whitewater WI's were just bland.

Three weeks ago in bushy Queensland I had a beef pasty and it was rich, crusty, and delicious.

So you never know. Just keep trying.

Geo

bjt wrote:Actually I have a whole fanatasy food article floating around my head of all the different sorts of hand pies one can encounter in the Chicago area.

Actually, the Tribune did something like this as a weekly feature in the Friday magazine during the summer of... oh, probably 1997 or 1998, if I recall when I was living where I was living when I was reading it...

It was called the "dumpling zone", I think -- I guess one might argue whether "hand pies" and "dumplings" belong in the same category, but i'm pretty sure they included empanadas, for example.

Ah yes, googling for "dumpling zone" turns up a couple of chowhound hits and a brief bio of Monica Eng, who wrote the column.

If you don't write the article (or even if you do), it might make a good LTHForum project, perhaps as a followup to the taqueria project?