Baking soda and Baking powder

Hi,

My question today is related to baking soda, though the door is open to baking powder ....

In this heirloom recipe ingredient list, I believe there is a mistake:

4 eggs
2 c. sour or sweet cream
2 c. granulated sugar
1 tsp. vanilla extract
7 T. cocoa powder
2 1/2 c. sifted cake flour
2 tsp. baking soda
1/4 tsp. salt

Baking soda is alkaline, which needs enough acid to thoroughly activate (if that is the right term) it. If there is not enough acid, the final product will have a chemical taste to it.

The recipe author gives one the option for sour or sweet cream. Cocoa powder has a pH of 5.4 to 5.5. If sweet cream is used, is there enough acid in the cocoa powder to thoroughly activate/use the baking soda?

My gut feeling, you need the sour cream to fully use the baking soda. While the sweet cream will leave this cake a little flatter with that unpleasant chemical taste.

Sour cream has a pH of 4.2 to 4.4 according to page 179 of this book and buttermilk is 4.1 to 4.83.

What is the right cream for this situation? Absent of an answer, I am inclined to use buttermilk.

Regards,

I had a very similar recipe, that stated:

"Use x amount milk or cream, sweet or sour (if using sour, use baking soda.)"

I would also use sour cream.. hope that helps.

I think it may be enough cocoa. I would make it with sour cream since it is listed first. Or buttermilk if you don't have it.
But I'd be interested to see what happens with sweet cream...do you have time to do a side-by-side test?

Pie Lady wrote:I think it may be enough cocoa. I would make it with sour cream since it is listed first. Or buttermilk if you don't have it.
But I'd be interested to see what happens with sweet cream...do you have time to do a side-by-side test?

Hi,

I don't want to waste ingredients just to check, when I know what may happen. I am an eat-your-mistakes type person.

Regards,

While I'm inclined to think that they wouldn't even suggest the sweet cream if they didn't know whether it worked, I'd use the sour cream for a simple reason: my guess is that it would taste better. I think it would add a tang that the sweet cream won't and even the buttermilk isn't likely to.

Just my 2 cents.

cathy, i wouldn't use buttermilk in this recipe. can't prove to you that it won't work, but i think the consistency is too thin. i'd definitely go with sour cream. 2 t. baking soda is a generous amount for a recipe with 4 eggs. i think it'll work just fine. is there no fat except the cream in this?

I think I've substituted buttermilk for sour cream before and it worked fine, but I used a little less than what the recipe called for.

justjoan wrote:cathy, i wouldn't use buttermilk in this recipe. can't prove to you that it won't work, but i think the consistency is too thin.

If sweet cream is supposed to work, I can't imagine buttermilk not working, given they're of similar viscosity. Also, this being an heirloom recipe, I suspect the sour cream of yore is probably thinner than the commercial stuff we get today. I certainly know the sour cream we got on my mom's farm was positively soupy compared to, say, Dean's.

Let me throw out one more approach. I'd use the sweet cream since, otherwise, there's almost no fat in the recipe so how good could the cake really be otherwise. Then, use 1 tsp of baking soda and 1 tsp of baking powder instead of 2t of baking soda only.

I'm a big fan of the chocolate cake recipe on the back of every Hershey's cocoa container - it calls for both also and uses a combinatin of milk, water, and vegetable oil for the ingredients. I figure at the end of the day 1 cup of milk, 1/2 cup vegetable oil, and 1 cup of water has about the same amount of fat as 2 cups of cream. The rest of the recipe matches up pretty well although the Hershey's recipe calls for a total of three tsp of leavening but then again, two eggs instead of four so it all makes sense.

Or I guess you could just use the Hershey's recipe and not worry about it.

angrychefmike wrote:Let me throw out one more approach. I'd use the sweet cream since, otherwise, there's almost no fat in the recipe so how good could the cake really be otherwise.

Depends on the sour cream you use. Plain sour cream, by law, is at least 18% butterfat, the same minimum as table cream. I don't know when this recipe was written, but I'd guess that the sour cream and sweet cream being referred to are of similar butterfat levels, given that sour cream was just sweet cream that was left to naturally sour. (At least that's how it was done on my mom's farm. Note: if you want to sour your own cream, you have to use unpasteruized cream, or add a starter culture to pasteurized cream [can be from cultured buttermilk]. Pasteurized cream left on its own spoils, not sours, as the bacteria responsible for souring have been killed off in the process.)

Or, if you're really afraid the butterfat isn't high enough, try creme fraiche, which is around 28%, and has a pH of 4.5.

Hi,

This cake recipe is an entry submitted to the Iowa State Fair for the Heirloom Recipe Contest. According to the history submitted, they estimate this recipe is from the 1940's or earlier.

We usually take pictures of each entry before they are cut into. Between three of us taking pictures, nobody has one of this cake. I will be baking it soon to obtain a picture for the website as well as testing it.

I am still skeptical of using cream or sour cream when there is baking soda involved. I may do as Pie Lady suggested, do a side by side. Maybe bring it to the picnic? That's not a bad idea, I could bake it both ways and everyone who is curious could check it for themselves.

Brownstone Fruit Cake
Angie Richard, Perry, Iowa

4 eggs
2 c. sour or sweet cream
2 c. granulated sugar
1 tsp. vanilla extract
7 T. cocoa powder
2 1/2 c. sifted cake flour
2 tsp. baking soda
1/4 tsp. salt

Directions: Preheat oven to 375 degrees F. In a large mixing bowl, combine eggs, cream, sugar, and vanilla extract. Beat with egg beater until thoroughly mixed. Add cocoa powder, cake flour, baking soda and salt. Beat mixture again until thoroughly combined. Pour batter equally into two 9 inch round baking pans. Bake for 30 to 35 minutes or until a toothpick inserted in the center of each cake comes out clean. Remove cakes from oven and let them cool. Glaze each cake layer with chocolate glaze (recipe follows below) and serve.


Chocolate Glaze
3 T. heavy cream
1 tsp. vanilla extract
1 1/2 c. powdered sugar
1 T. cocoa powder

Directions: Mix ingredients listed above in a small mixing bowl with spoon until smooth.

Regards,

Looks like it might end up being trail-and-error, then. I would just make sure not to use Dutch process cocoa powder for this recipe. Dutch process cocoa has a neutral to slightly alkaline pH. Natural cocoa is acidic.

Let me know if you bring both to the picnic and I will do a blind taste test.

Why is this called a "fruit cake"? Please advise.

sundevilpeg wrote:Why is this called a "fruit cake"? Please advise.

I inherited the recipe for Brownstone Fruit Cake from my maternal Great-Grandmother Flora (McDonald) Gasche. Flora was born in Kansas in the late 1890s & passed away in 1978. She worked as a teacher in a one-room school house as a young adult. When she got married, she became a homemaker. She and my Great Grandfather Grover Gasche owned a large cattle farm in Kansas. They had many farm hands to help on the farm. Flora did all of the cooking for the crew as well as her family which consisted of several children.

I found this recipe in my grandmother's cookbook when she passed away a few years ago. It's from the 1940s. I'm not sure where Great-Grandmother Gasche got it. However, I'm sure the name of the recipe for a fruit cake made without fruit sparked her dry Scottish humor!