Not everything needs to live in the refrigerator

Hi,

I have a large refrigerator, which acts like a little refrigerator from all the condiments accumulated inside. I'm probably not alone in putting somethings in cold storage which don't belong.

Just in a very brief survey I found: vanilla, soy sauce(s), Worcestershire sauce and my personal favorite: an unopened bottle of clam juice. I keep my full flavored olive and walnut oils to slow rancidity. When I want them, I park them near the stove for a few minutes to warm enough to pour.

I have a can of crab from Costco in the refrigerator as well as a can of caviar. I have this feeling I am supposed to though if you questioned me I don't have a solid reason except both were picked up in the refrigerator cases at the store. Isn't their being canned mean it is shelf stable?

From Hammond's thread on pre-warming ketchup, we know he prefers to keep his ketchup at ambient temperatures. My ketchup, mustard, relish and sport peppers are in the refrigerator.

What do you keep in the refrigerator which could survive just as well on the shelf?

Regards,

There's varying degrees of shelf stable: Just because it won't spoil doesn't mean it will have the best texture and flavor.

Keep that caviar and crab in the fridge.

My nemesis in the fridge seems to be olives: Deli containers with three olives festering in the back of the bottom shelf, tipping over and spilling sticky brine, flavored olives in jars that nobody seems to like much but nobody has the heart to throw away.

Like most important issues in my life, the answer to your question is governed by science and miscellaneous factoids and gossip I find on the Internets. In all things potentially linked to salmonella, I defer to the Periodic Table of Condiments for disposal purposes.

Having once spent a delirious evening with food poisoning in a Danang hotel with the electricity off, I now keep everything that might spoil (except anchovies) below 38 degrees.

My Polish maid always puts things in the fridge that no native-born American would-- honey, peanut butter, olive oil. I expect to find the Comet and the Duz in there someday.

I've often wondered if she grew up with some Soviet brand of, say, honey which actually could spoil at room temperature because it was, well, not exactly honey from bees.

(Which by the way raises an interesting question-- why doesn't honey go bad? It's a sugar, it should serve as a terrific host to all kinds of organisms. Yet it doesn't-- it may crystallize, but it doesn't go bad.)

Honey is amazing stuff when it comes to being a stable food.
http://www.littletree.com.au/manuka.htm

Honey is formed when bees gather nectar from flowers, regurgitate it into their honeycomb structures and fan it with their wings until most of the water in the nectar has evaporated. Their enzyme rich saliva turns the sucrose into glucose and fructose, which bind to the remaining water, leaving a cocktail in which bacteria cannot survive. Honey is also hostile to bacteria because it contains hydrogen peroxide created from glucose with the aid of bees' enzyme glucose oxidase. This is deadly to microbes including e.coli, salmonella, heliobacter pylori (the bacteria implicated in stomach ulcers) and antibiotic resistant bacteria including hospital super bug Methicillin-resistant staphylococcus (MRSA).

It's so hostile to bacteria and enzime developement that I've heard it said that infants shouldn't be fed honey until a certain age because the honey inhibits the growth of digestive organizms in the baby's still developing digestive system.

I've been told that honey is the only animal (insect) by-product that will not spoil.

I now keep peanut butter in the fridge because I've been buying natural PB. It separates at room temp, and it's a pain to stir. It sets up nicely in the fridge and if I leave it out at room temp for 20 minutes, it's a perfect consistency.

One thing that you should NEVER refrigerate is tomatoes. They hate the cold and lose their taste and texture.

Honey's primary way of killing of bacteria or yeast is by osmotically sucking the water out of the little bugs that land on its surface. So, keep your honey covered and it will stay dry and inhospitable to micro-fauna. But, significantly, if you add enough water and some yeast, you get mead. From there, it's just a short hop to the sodality of the mead-hall. And then Grendel comes in and stomps a few Danes, but what the heck: mmm, mead.

Just for clarification, honey should not be fed to infants because it could harbor botulism toxin, and baby's typically don't need botox at that age. (it can actually be quite dangerous.)

And now back to your regularly scheduled foruming.

My maid's been known to stick the tomatoes in, too. Now I know better than to let her find them.

Cathy2 wrote:What do you keep in the refrigerator which could survive just as well on the shelf?

As I will soon be in possession of some quantity of duck confit, could it not be kept out of the refrigerator (though I will probably refrigerate it)?

Hammond

As I will soon be in possession of some quantity of duck confit, could it not be kept out of the refrigerator (though I will probably refrigerate it)?

In European cookbooks, they always seem to having these things percolating on the kitchen counter. However, they also have colder homes than we maintain though not nearly as cold as refrigerators.

For intestinal fortitude purposes alone, I would refrigerate.

Regards,

David Hammond wrote:

Cathy2 wrote:What do you keep in the refrigerator which could survive just as well on the shelf?

As I will soon be in possession of some quantity of duck confit, could it not be kept out of the refrigerator (though I will probably refrigerate it)?

Hammond

You could get away with it unrefrigerated (with all that fat protecting it), but I'd just keep it in the fridge to be on the safe side. As to the original question, I don't think I keep anything in the fridge that could do without the cold. When I lived in Europe, I used to even keep eggs at room temperature, but now I've gotten back into the American habit of refigerating them. I also have butter in the fridge, for some reason, where it really shouldn't be.

Binko wrote:I also have butter in the fridge, for some reason, where it really shouldn't be.

My husband and I argue about this. If the weather's not hot, I like to keep a stick at room temp, soft for spreading. He complains that it tastes of butyric acid in a very short time. So we keep it in the fridge and I microwave it briefly for spreadability.

There are good associations too. When I think of this rancid butter I see mvself standing in a little, old-world courtyard, a very smelly, very dreary courtyard. Through the cracks in the shutters strange figures peer out at me … old women with shawls, dwarfs, rat-faced pimps, bent Jews, midinettes, bearded idiots.

-- Henry Miller

So tonight, I'm throwing together a quick cucumber vinagarette, and I can't find the vinegar. Where is it? C'mon guess. That's right.

David "Goodnight Nurse" Hammond

David Hammond wrote:So tonight, I'm throwing together a quick cucumber vinagarette, and I can't find the vinegar. Where is it? C'mon guess. That's right.

I never used to store vinegar in the refrigerator until I bought some red-wine vinegar that said "refrigerate after opening" on it. Now I'm careful to check the labels. (For what it's worth, the red-wine vinegar doesn't go bad if left at room temp -- it just builds up "mother" -- however, ultimately, the mother dies in the anerobic closed bottle and the vinegar develops off flavors.)

LAZ wrote:I bought some red-wine vinegar that said "refrigerate after opening" on it.

I understand how over the long run you will retard aging by refrigerating. However, does this caution to "refrigerate after opening" similar to clothing care recommendations to "dry clean only" driven more by defensive (legal) posture than practicality?

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:However, does this caution to "refrigerate after opening" similar to clothing care recommendations to "dry clean only" driven more by defensive (legal) posture than practicality?

Maybe more of a desire not to have to field calls about "What's this slimy stuff growing in my vinegar?"

Maybe more of a desire not to have to field calls about "What's this slimy stuff growing in my vinegar?"

I had thought of that as well but couldn't think of a good example. Being on the receiving end of hysterical consumers certainly is not a pleasant experience.

Regards,

HI,

Recently at a trade show, my Dad received a packet of 72 slices of precooked bacon in a room temperature stabilized pouch made by Hormel. When will the occasion come to crack it open for 72 slices of bacon? I am not quite sure. Yet it is room temperature stabilized and can sit on a shelf for sometime to come.

Where did I find these 72 slices of bacon this morning? In the refrigerator, unopened. they are now back in the pantry.

The refrigerator seems to be the default home when one isn't quite sure what to do.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:When will the occasion come to crack it open for 72 slices of bacon?

In the opinion of my elder son, that's a single serving size, like a Ben & Jerry's pint or a half-gallon of Tropicana orange juice.

Two quick comments, and then back to trying to find something in the 'fridge that I need for dinner...

Honey: you can't imagine how hard it is to make mead. All those anti-spoilage mechanisms in honey are very hostile to yeast, even those specially selected for the task. Needless to say, it also is very hard to conduct a *clean* fermentation, once you get it started. Most meads that one finds at local wineries have off-tastes. I considered making it commercially for a short--very short--while, but gave up after considering the many ways I could screw up the fermentation. [Caveat: this is old news; it may well be that contemporary winemaking has cracked the problem via special enzymes, etc. YMMV]

Fridge: I find that safety is not the reason my fridge is an impenetrable hodge-podge. Rather, it's trying to keep all the condiments around for Asian cooking. And every time I go into a new store it's all about 'oooohhhh, fermented red bean rice soy garlic lichees, ewwhhh, gotta have 'em!'

So TODG makes me keep all my stuff on two shelves only, in pull-out-able containers, e.g., sheet-cake pans. Sheesh, what a constraint!
How's a guy gonna have what he needs, when he needs it, that way?


Geo
PS. Tnx sooo much for that 'Periodic Table of Condiments'--what a hoot!

Geo wrote:Honey: you can't imagine how hard it is to make mead. All those anti-spoilage mechanisms in honey are very hostile to yeast, even those specially selected for the task. Needless to say, it also is very hard to conduct a *clean* fermentation, once you get it started. Most meads that one finds at local wineries have off-tastes. I considered making it commercially for a short--very short--while, but gave up after considering the many ways I could screw up the fermentation. [Caveat: this is old news; it may well be that contemporary winemaking has cracked the problem via special enzymes, etc. YMMV]

Admittedly off-topic, but I've found mead pretty easy to make ... certainly easier than all-grain beer (YHMV - your honey may vary). Only problems are long fermentation, and then needs long aging to really come into its own.

Cathy2 wrote:When will the occasion come to crack it open for 72 slices of bacon?

Bacon buns!

Hi,

If vanilla is stored on a shelf undisturbed, then after 5 years some components will loose suspension and fall to the bottom of the bottle. This same phenomena is speeded up when vanilla is stored in the refrigerator. This can be remedied with a quick shake and is not any sign of the vanilla's decline.

Bottom line: vanilla is best stored at room temperature.

Regards,

Reminds me of a quote I heard on Frontline by market researcher Clotaire Rapaille:

If you need cheese for today, you want to buy a mature cheese. If you want cheese for next week, you buy a young cheese. And when you buy young cheese for next week, you go home, [but] you never put the cheese in the refrigerator, because you don't put your cat in the refrigerator. It's the same; it's alive. We are very afraid of getting sick with cheese. By the way, more French people die eating cheese than Americans die. But the priority is different; the logic of emotion is different. The French like the taste before safety. Americans want safety before the taste.

Mhays wrote:Reminds me of a quote I heard on Frontline by market researcher Clotaire Rapaille:

If you need cheese for today, you want to buy a mature cheese. If you want cheese for next week, you buy a young cheese. And when you buy young cheese for next week, you go home, [but] you never put the cheese in the refrigerator, because you don't put your cat in the refrigerator. It's the same; it's alive. We are very afraid of getting sick with cheese. By the way, more French people die eating cheese than Americans die. But the priority is different; the logic of emotion is different. The French like the taste before safety. Americans want safety before the taste.

looks like in the future Chicagoans could use some safety before The Taste.

My Polish maid always puts things in the fridge that no native-born American would-- honey, peanut butter, olive oil

I've actually known quite a few native-born Americans who refrigerate peanut butter, and not just the natural stuff, either. Ironically, I've been known to mockingly call them Commies.

I don't really get the appeal, cold peanut butter is tasteless and impossible to spread. And, much like Sally Brown, I HATE CHUNKY BUTTER!!

Peanut butter can go rancid if you don't eat it enough. I am also convinced, though I have no evidence, that the toxic stuff it can sometimes get in it grows more slowly in the fridge.

Actually, I've been wondering about the egg-refrigeration issue myself a lot recently.
Why is it that you can keep eggs at room temp in Europe, but not in America?
Is it that they are fresher (but eventually you'd have to refrigerate)?
Or is it because they are somehow treated (irradiation?).
If I don't need to keep American eggs in the fridge, I would start keeping them in the pantry. In my opinion, the only way to keep fried eggs from sticking to the pan is to have them at room temp, and not having to warm the eggs up to room temp before cooking would allow me to eat my breakfast that much sooner!

Hi LLTT,

I have seen plenty of eggs in European home and grocery store refrigerators. European homes are kept cooler in winter than our homes. However not cold enough to safely keep eggs at ambient temperature for a long time. Some Europeans shop daily with the ability to buy small amounts of eggs, at least smaller quantities than we can buy, to be consumed promptly.

To avoid eggs sticking: preheat the pan, add a generous quantity of the fat of your choice and once up to temperature add your eggs. At least this works for me! You can further improve your chances of an egg not sticking by using a teflon or well seasoned castiron pan.

Regards,