Wienie War: Vienna Beef sues Red Hot Chicago

Vienna has a beef with founder's grandson over hot dogs wrote:The maker of Vienna hot dogs has a beef with a rival hot dog company, which just happens to be run by a descendant of one of Vienna's founders.

Vienna Beef, maker of the popular hot dogs, is suing Scott D. Ladany, grandson of one of the Chicago-based company's founders. He is no longer affiliated with Vienna.

The suit, filed Monday in U.S. District Court in Chicago, claims Ladany's company, Red Hot Chicago, either ripped off Vienna's 118-year-old recipe or is lying by telling customers that its hot dogs are the real thing.

"I guess it's the great Chicago wienie wars," said Jim Bodman, chief executive of Vienna Beef, who with a partner bought Vienna Beef in the early 1980s....

Surprised it took this long. Especially because RHC's product is (personally) considerably better than the most widely available Vienna Beef product.

Hi,

I never thought about buying any Red Hot Chicago product. It will now be in the cart next shopping trip.

Regards,

gleam wrote:Surprised it took this long. Especially because RHC's product is (personally) considerably better than the most widely available Vienna Beef product.

I definitely prefer Vienna but I do find it fairly difficult to find Vienna natural-casing dogs on a retail basis. We usually end up going to the factory store because even though it's far from our house, it's a sure thing.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:I definitely prefer Vienna but I do find it fairly difficult to find Vienna natural-casing dogs on a retail basis. We usually end up going to the factory store because even though it's far from our house, it's a sure thing.

=R=

E & M has them.

Elegance in Meats
3135 Dundee Road
Northbrook, IL 60062
(847) 480-6328

I've been unsuccessful in finding the actual Red Hot Chicago trade ad that is the cause for Vienna's lawsuit. I'm curious to see it to make up my own mind as a "juror" on the merits of their case. Anyone have a link (no pun intended) to it?

ronnie_suburban wrote:I definitely prefer Vienna but I do find it fairly difficult to find Vienna natural-casing dogs on a retail basis. We usually end up going to the factory store because even though it's far from our house, it's a sure thing.
=R=

Vienna Beef does not offer natural casing hot dogs/Polish for retail sales. They're available in ten pound cases for food service distribution to vendors, restaurants, carts, stands, and to the public at the Vienna Beef Factory Store. The Factory Store also sells them by the piece or pound. Stop by the factory tent sale June 29th-July 2nd, where ten pound cases will be sale priced.

chicagostyledog wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:I definitely prefer Vienna but I do find it fairly difficult to find Vienna natural-casing dogs on a retail basis. We usually end up going to the factory store because even though it's far from our house, it's a sure thing.
=R=

Vienna Beef does not offer natural casing hot dogs/Polish for retail sales. They're available in ten pound cases for food service distribution to vendors, restaurants, carts, stands, and to the public at the Vienna Beef Factory Store. The Factory Store also sells them by the piece or pound. Stop by the factory tent sale June 29th-July 2nd, where ten pound cases will be sale priced.

So, are you saying that the retail places that do sell them are doing so without consent? I'm confused because I've definitely purchased them at some grocery stores and as Steve posted above, Elegance in Meats also carries them.

Also, do you know why Vienna doesn't sell them on a retail basis? That seems like a very odd business decision to me.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:So, are you saying that the retail places that do sell them are doing so without consent? I'm confused because I've definitely purchased them at some grocery stores and as Steve posted above, Elegance in Meats also carries them.

Also, do you know why Vienna doesn't sell them on a retail basis? That seems like a very odd business decision to me.

=R=

Grocery stores selling Vienna Beef food service products are "vendors' and E&M is a vendor. Some vendors sell Vienna Beef, food service natural casings by the piece or the pound from a deli case. All perfectly legal. The majority of the hot dogs produced by Vienna Beef are skinless and the majority of all retail hot dogs are skinless.

ronnie_suburban wrote:Also, do you know why Vienna doesn't sell them on a retail basis? That seems like a very odd business decision to me.

As noted, Vienna sells bulk natural-casing hot dogs to retailers as a deli-case item. What they don't do is package them by the pound for retail sales. In a recent interview for an upcoming hot-dog story, I was told this is because it's not possible to produce them in consistent, precise weights the way skinless hot dogs can be made, so they are what's called a "catch weight" item.

That may be Vienna's rationale, but it doesn't seem to be an issue for some other manufacturers, such as Bobak, whose packaged natural-casing sausages are all over the place.

It may be that given the added cost of natural-casing hot dogs, there isn't sufficient market demand from retailers for them. Most people perceive hot dogs as a cheap meal. In the deli case, natural-casing hot dogs sell as a premium gourmet item. In the lunch-meat aisle, next to the Ball Park Franks, they'd look mighty expensive.

FWIW, Red Hot Chicago's retail products (two sizes of franks and a Polish) are all skinless, too.

The first round (also known as the Chicago Tribune death spiral):

Chicago wienie wars: Red Hot Chicago loses first round to Vienna

Yet the first two paragraphs seem to indicate the opposite:

Hot dog maker Red Hot Chicago scored a victory in "the great Chicago wienie wars," in which Vienna Beef sued Red Hot alleging it either stole the Vienna hotd og recipe or was falsely claiming its dogs were the same thing.

A judge this week denied a request for a temporary restraining order against Red Hot Chicago, saying Vienna didn't show how it would be irreparably harmed by waiting for the case to play out in court. The judge also said Vienna's chances were not good for succeeding on its claims of false advertising, trademark infringement and violation of trade secrets.

Looks like they've fixed the headline to: Chicago wienie wars: Vienna loses first round to Red Hot

Truce is called. Sounds like all they did was burn some legal fees and court time. No money changed hands and nobody is changing their marketing strategy - then what was the point?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... 7255.story

Kman wrote:Truce is called. Sounds like all they did was burn some legal fees and court time. No money changed hands and nobody is changing their marketing strategy - then what was the point?

To pay for the tuition bills of the attorneys' children?

Kman wrote:Truce is called. Sounds like all they did was burn some legal fees and court time. No money changed hands and nobody is changing their marketing strategy - then what was the point?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... 7255.story

Isn't this article about a completely separate hot dog war? My understanding is the Vienna/Red Hot Chicago spat is still sputtering.

mailsf wrote:

Kman wrote:Truce is called. Sounds like all they did was burn some legal fees and court time. No money changed hands and nobody is changing their marketing strategy - then what was the point?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... 7255.story

Isn't this article about a completely separate hot dog war? My understanding is the Vienna/Red Hot Chicago spat is still sputtering.

Yes. The linked article is about the issue between Kraft and Sara Lee, not Vienna Beef and Red Hot Chicago.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:

mailsf wrote:

Kman wrote:Truce is called. Sounds like all they did was burn some legal fees and court time. No money changed hands and nobody is changing their marketing strategy - then what was the point?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... 7255.story

Isn't this article about a completely separate hot dog war? My understanding is the Vienna/Red Hot Chicago spat is still sputtering.

Yes. The linked article is about the issue between Kraft and Sara Lee, not Vienna Beef and Red Hot Chicago.

=R=

I didn't think we really needed two separate threads about warring weenie makers and that the content of the link was fairly obvious as to who was calling truce. If the mods feel this would be better in its own thread I'm fine with that as well.

mailsf wrote:

Kman wrote:Truce is called. Sounds like all they did was burn some legal fees and court time. No money changed hands and nobody is changing their marketing strategy - then what was the point?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... 7255.story

Isn't this article about a completely separate hot dog war? My understanding is the Vienna/Red Hot Chicago spat is still sputtering.

Thanks for the correction. I had assumed that this was talking about the Vienna Vs. Redhot case since it didn't specify otherwise and didn't see any need to chase the link.

I was just perusing the Red Hot Chicago website and noticed their current address is the same as Vienna, 2501 N Damen, and not the Armitage address. Are they now owned by Vienna?

metro man wrote:I was just perusing the Red Hot Chicago website and noticed their current address is the same as Vienna, 2501 N Damen, and not the Armitage address. Are they now owned by Vienna?

Apparently yes, according to this article.

http://appetiteforlife.msn.com/articles ... /254327757

I'm pretty sure Red Hot Chicago has their products now made at 2501 N Damen as Vienna Beef now makes theirs in the west loop.But Aren't they still 2 separate companies?I would think if there both the same company that a person selling hot dogs could in theory sell both brands although that might confuse the paying customer.