Darren72 wrote:

NeroW wrote:If we have the luxury of having an extra room and a person to run a coat check, then you customers must promise to use it. You don't have to tip. Just hand over your damn coat before we spill on it/step on it/burn it/it takes over another guests space. We promise to give it back. You'd be surprised by the existential crises people have when faced with the prospect of a coat check.

Some restaurants don't make this promise. It's more like: we'll probably give it back. But there's a small chance that we'll accidentally give your coat to someone else. It will be a mistake and we'll feel bad. But, no, we're not buying you a new coat.

boudreaulicious wrote:

NeroW wrote:
I may start a thread titled Small Ways Guests Can Make Me Less Grumpy in 2013, but this would be the wrong forum for that

I would actually really enjoy that (and I think you'd be surprised by how many industry folk might contribute!!!)

Agreed.

I'd love to read that.

=R=

Hammond, I really can't decide who's nuttier, you (for ending up with Wayne at *your* initiation!) or Wayne (for being Wayne).

But the eats sounded awfully good.

You know, there's probably some typically-best n to use in resto roulette, like, say, 7. Twenty-five is too high. But then, it *did* bring Wayne into your life.

In Montréal essentially ALL restos have a coat rack. Montrealers dress fit for Winter up here, and that means lots of bulky garments. Not enough room in/on a chair for the garment and its bearer. Of course there's always a sign (en français) to the effect that the resto isn't responsible for your garment's continued presence. Gardez les yeux, y'awl.

And it's "sac de chien", it really really is.

Geo

D.G.Sullivan wrote:Website...check.
Attentive yet not overly familiar servers...check.
Coat room, yeah, not so much.
Proper attention to non-eaten meals...ok, usually is the best I can do there. We ask our servers, note we call them "servers" not "waiters" as I don't expect them to "wait" I expect them to be "serving", to try to box the left-overs and present them when the check is finalized. Reality is that occurs maybe 65% of the time because there are times we can be so thankfully busy that it is just this side of impractical to try to keep everyone's bag of goodies set aside to just that right moment. But I'm solidly with you on not leaving it to the guest to transfer the left overs into our containers at the table. It's just not "right". That said, I see about 50-50 on folks asking to do it themselves for whatever reason, and as we know, the customer isn't always right...they're just always the customer.

So, 3 out of 4. I think we might be able to keep you at least slightly above grumpy so where 'ya been?

DG, I would love to come to your place some time. I have 2 very close friends who grew up in Gibson City and have been thru there many many times but not in about 6 years. Are you handicap accessible?

boudreaulicious wrote:

NeroW wrote:
I may start a thread titled Small Ways Guests Can Make Me Less Grumpy in 2013, but this would be the wrong forum for that

I would actually really enjoy that (and I think you'd be surprised by how many industry folk might contribute!!!)

I, too, would highly appreciate a thread like that. The server-customer relationship is two-way, and I always find it enlightening to hear how the other side of the equation feels about customers (however, the few times I have heard how servers feel about customers, I've been apalled at how much they despise us, cf. Waiter Rant, a very disturbing index into how much spit probably goes into our soup).

boudreaulicious wrote:

NeroW wrote:
I may start a thread titled Small Ways Guests Can Make Me Less Grumpy in 2013, but this would be the wrong forum for that

I would actually really enjoy that (and I think you'd be surprised by how many industry folk might contribute!!!)

I would enjoy and contribute.

Geo wrote:Hammond, I really can't decide who's nuttier, you (for ending up with Wayne at *your* initiation!) or Wayne (for being Wayne).

I checked the link yesterday and see that Wayne's site has been shut down. Either it's a government plot or...they already walk among us by the thousands!

NeroW wrote:If we have the luxury of having an extra room and a person to run a coat check, then you customers must promise to use it. You don't have to tip. Just hand over your damn coat before we spill on it/step on it/burn it/it takes over another guests space. We promise to give it back. You'd be surprised by the existential crises people have when faced with the prospect of a coat check.

As a customer, I totally agree with you. In restaurants with no coat check, putting coats on the backs of chairs is excusable (and sometimes necessary). In restaurants with a coat check, customers who nevertheless insist on draping their coats over their chairs are the modern-day equivalents of Vandals and Visigoths.

riddlemay wrote: In restaurants with a coat check, customers who nevertheless insist on draping their coats over their chairs are the modern-day equivalents of Vandals and Visigoths.

Or Ostrogoths (The Wife). Perhaps the Northern peoples prefer their coats close, in case they have to rush out to battle others.

Hi,

I was watching People's Court recently while eating lunch. A woman's coat disappeared from the coat rack. The restaurant claimed no responsibility for it. If I recall correctly, the judge supported the restaurant's position. Since this event, the restaurant has put up signage declaring no responsibility for any coat loss or damage.

I am inclined to keep my coat near, too.

Regards,

Hammond,

I appreciate the rant but the last place I want my leftovers -- or anything I'm going to put in my mouth or my refrigerator -- is on the floor. The table seems like an ideal place for food, even if it's packed up.

Personally, I favor packing up my own leftovers for reasons others have stated above. I can do it more to my liking than the restaurant staff. I guess the ideal solution would be for the staff to bring the empty container(s) to the table and ask the customer "would you like me to pack these up for you or do you prefer to do it yourself?"

If restaurants universally adhere to your mini manifesto, I guess I'll be the one bitching next year!

=R=

Cathy2 wrote:Hi,

I was watching People's Court recently while eating lunch. A woman's coat disappeared from the coat rack. The restaurant claimed no responsibility for it. If I recall correctly, the judge supported the restaurant's position. Since this event, the restaurant has put up signage declaring no responsibility for any coat loss or damage.

I am inclined to keep my coat near, too.

Regards,

Agreed. Don't complain that I won't use the coat room if you refuse to be responsible for the items I leave in your care.

Cathy2 wrote:Hi,I was watching People's Court recently while eating lunch. A woman's coat disappeared from the coat rack. The restaurant claimed no responsibility for it. If I recall correctly, the judge supported the restaurant's position. Since this event, the restaurant has put up signage declaring no responsibility for any coat loss or damage. I am inclined to keep my coat near, too.

Best situation is to have a coat room with an attendant who gives out numbers for outerwear checked. I've never had a problem with those operations.

ronnie_suburban wrote: I guess the ideal solution would be for the staff to bring the empty container(s) to the table and ask the customer "would you like me to pack these up for you or do you prefer to do it yourself?"

I almost agree with this, but would reverse the order. I think the ideal solution would be for the server to ask the customer "would you like me to pack these up for you or would you prefer to do it yourself?" and depending on the customer's answer, bring an empty container to the table or take the leftovers to the kitchen and pack them up there.

Katie wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote: I guess the ideal solution would be for the staff to bring the empty container(s) to the table and ask the customer "would you like me to pack these up for you or do you prefer to do it yourself?"

I almost agree with this, but would reverse the order. I think the ideal solution would be for the server to ask the customer "would you like me to pack these up for you or would you prefer to do it yourself?" and depending on the customer's answer, bring an empty container to the table or take the leftovers to the kitchen and pack them up there.

I honestly didn't anticipate that so many people would prefer to pack their own stuff. To the best of my recollection, I've never had problems when servers pack up leftovers, but there's always room for error, and I fully understand why some would rather do the packing themselves. Giving the customer options seems like a good way to answer the "who packs the leftovers?" question.

I like Katie's way of putting it.

Please give me a plain text menu on the webpage in addition to the pdf, avoid separate links for starters/apps, veggies, entrees, drinks, etc and you'd think it would go without saying but please don't make me hunt around for your address, phone and hours of operation.

Given floor, chair or table, I prefer my staff-packed leftovers on the table. And I still manage to walk off without them.

I've witnessed three coat check screwups that have basically sworn me off the practice if I can at all help it. One was a vanished coat (not mine), and another was some sort of wrong ticket:coat problem (not mine) at closing time at a busy nightclub: "Um, let's see, it was black, kinda long..ya, like the 500 others but mine had Chapstick in the breast pocket." Both times, it was suggested that the coat owner simply stay around till all the other coats were gone to let the process of elimination run its course. I've also been given the wrong coat and didn't notice until after I got outside, though this one was quickly resolved.
I also never valet my car. Get to know some valets, you'll see why.

Maybe this topic needs a thread along the lines of "The Worst Thing You've Eaten Lately." It could be cathartic for many of us.

I am with you, David, on the need for improved professionalism in most establishments. What makes me grumpy are staff attempts to proactively manage my expectations in ways that serve their screwed up processes.

My grumpiest half hour in recent memory was spent at the Frontera Tortas concession on the K Concourse at O'hare. At an hour when there was no other customer waiting for food, and at least six employees present, three on the line, I ordered a torta and was told the wait would be 10 minutes. The cashier attempted to steer me toward the premade items, which I refused, preferring to wait. I watched as the staff chatted, drank coffee, prepped, and did everything but prepare my torta for some time. I waited 20-25 minutes for the promised item.

Curious, I watched as this happened to every subsequent customer that came along in the next hour, and believe me, the traffic was light. At long last, a middle aged woman who appeared to be a line cook of some energy appeared and got the lackadaisical crew into gear. I have a hilarious set of photos of first puzzled, then annoyed, then pissed off customers waiting, exactly as I did. It makes me wonder if this is some intentional strategy to signal to the flying public that these Frontera Tortas are a sensation worth waiting for. At the very least, Chef Bayless should send some mystery shopper-type official observers to report back on what is happening there. It makes me wonder if the concession is his in name only. If so, his brand is not helped by the state of affairs there. Perhaps he is locked in to a contract serviced by some City patronage food service roster. I don't know how it works, but for me, next time, I hit McDonalds.

Josephine wrote:I have a hilarious set of photos of first puzzled, then annoyed, then pissed off customers waiting, exactly as I did.

Yo, Jo, would love to see those photos.

Josephine wrote: I don't know how it works, but for me, next time, I hit McDonalds.

Oh well, more for me.

I eat at the terminal K location nearly everytime I fly from Chicago to New York. I've never had these issues and the 10 minute wait is standard and generally adhered to, even in heavy traffic.

Not saying I don't believe you, but you had a one-off experience. And those sandwiches are great, worth waiting for. McDonald's is a step (barely) above eating animal feces.

I see the point people are making about unmanned and unwomanned coat check rooms. When a restaurant provides a staffed coat check room, however, with claim checks--and I would also count the situation where the host/ess checks your coat and gives you a claim check--my feeling is that the restaurant is doing that for a reason. It is saying, "We are trying to maintain an orderly and aesthetically-pleasing environment to complement our food, one which will be spoiled by coats randomly hanging off chairs every which way." In that situation, I consider it part of my social contract with the restaurant to heed what they're saying (albeit nonverbally) to me.

Josephine wrote:My grumpiest half hour in recent memory was spent at the Frontera Tortas concession on the K Concourse at O'hare.

I had a bad experience at the O'Hare Frontera Tortas last year and send an email to customer service. They were very attentive and refunded the cost of my meal.

Websites have been mentioned here and elsewhere, and I think I could lay out some simple rules, that fall into two categories:
1) Don't be a dick
2) Make it easier on mobile users

In the first category, if I can't see information about the restaurant on the first page I land on, your web designer is a dick. If music starts playing, your web designer is a dick.

The second category is what frustrates me so much. These days I'm much more likely to be browsing for restos on a phone or tablet than I am on my laptop.
a) The first page you land on should have the address and hours, as text and not embedded in a graphic
b) Don't use PDFs for the menu. Sure you paid somebody for design, but it makes it harder to give someone a quick idea of what they're serving. If I have to download, then click to open an app just to see whether you have anything that my vegetarian friend can eat, we're approaching dick level again

JoelF wrote:The first page you land on should have the address and hours...

This is the single-loudest complaint I have about business websites! (Not just restaurants.) Why pay a penny for web hosting/design if you don't give out instantly and clearly the ONLY information that 99% of your site visitors are looking for? Thank goodness for Yelp!

David Hammond wrote:

Josephine wrote:I have a hilarious set of photos of first puzzled, then annoyed, then pissed off customers waiting, exactly as I did.

Yo, Jo, would love to see those photos.

Me too!

And in addition to your address and hours, for god's sake list the prices of items on the menu!

mamagotcha wrote:

JoelF wrote:The first page you land on should have the address and hours...

This is the single-loudest complaint I have about business websites! (Not just restaurants.) Why pay a penny for web hosting/design if you don't give out instantly and clearly the ONLY information that 99% of your site visitors are looking for? Thank goodness for Yelp!

Yes, Yelp! does this very well, and given their uppermost placement in web searches, I can frequently find web address if I just go to Yelp! rather than searching out the restaurant website, which could be at bottom of page one or even on page two of a search. Plus Yelp! has location, hours of operation, etc., listed in a very consistent foremat...and I've found the information reliable.

JoelF wrote:Websites have been mentioned here and elsewhere, and I think I could lay out some simple rules, that fall into two categories:
1) Don't be a dick
2) Make it easier on mobile users

In the first category, if I can't see information about the restaurant on the first page I land on, your web designer is a dick. If music starts playing, your web designer is a dick.

This this this OH GOD THIS. I ripped BellyQ's website a few weeks ago - I hated the website so damned much I cancelled my reservations and refuse to even consider going there until it changes.

The second category is what frustrates me so much. These days I'm much more likely to be browsing for restos on a phone or tablet than I am on my laptop.
a) The first page you land on should have the address and hours, as text and not embedded in a graphic
b) Don't use PDFs for the menu. Sure you paid somebody for design, but it makes it harder to give someone a quick idea of what they're serving. If I have to download, then click to open an app just to see whether you have anything that my vegetarian friend can eat, we're approaching dick level again

I'm actually inclined to accept pdf menus - the printed menus are likely to be saved as pdf's every day, so it makes a certain amount of sense to just upload those exact same files to the website. Of course, this depends on the website actually upating those menus regularly.

I actually don't mind so much if the online menu is a little outdated - when I browse, I'm not actually planning my order, I just want to get an idea of what you serve. I'm perfectly ok with either a regularly updated pdf menu, or a seldom updated text menu; a pdf from 2008 is just pointless from both perspectives.

JoelF wrote:Websites have been mentioned here and elsewhere, and I think I could lay out some simple rules, that fall into two categories:
1) Don't be a dick
2) Make it easier on mobile users

In the first category, if I can't see information about the restaurant on the first page I land on, your web designer is a dick. If music starts playing, your web designer is a dick.

The second category is what frustrates me so much. These days I'm much more likely to be browsing for restos on a phone or tablet than I am on my laptop.
a) The first page you land on should have the address and hours, as text and not embedded in a graphic
b) Don't use PDFs for the menu. Sure you paid somebody for design, but it makes it harder to give someone a quick idea of what they're serving. If I have to download, then click to open an app just to see whether you have anything that my vegetarian friend can eat, we're approaching dick level again

I'd bet that the majority of the complaints you have about websites would go away if said restaurants stopped allowing PR/Marketing folks to dictate their website design. A large number of these rogue sites seem to be using the same set of canned/crappy Wordpress themes (WP is a terrible platform for most business websites, but I digress), which is why the issue is so prevalent and consistent.

As for mobile phones, most good site designers these days are using responsive designs which present information tailored to the device being served. The canned/crappy WP themes mentioned above are hardcoded to a specific width, usually 990 pixels, which makes them virtually unusable on mobile phones. Tablets were designed to have desktop-compatible screen dimensions if rotated 90 degrees, so they are not an issue.

PDF menus are sheer laziness (or penny-pinching) on the part of restaurants. Hey, restaurants! Stop using Microsoft Word for menus! It's almost 2013! You can create web-based menus that when printed out look every bit as good as those you create in Word! And they solve your problem with putting menu prices on your website -- as you're printing out the menus for the restaurant, one additional click will automatically upload the menu to your website!

I have a request for this thread: Stop it with the high-top tables already. Please.

I'm 5' tall on a good day. I do not enjoy climbing into and out of my chair. I also don't like trying to jump off it. I'm too clumsy for that. Especially if I'm wearing heels. These tall tables used to just be in bar areas, and I could overlook that. But, now they seem to be everywhere, and I hate them. They make me look like an undignified child climbing up to the adult table. At 35, that's not an image I want to project.

merkay wrote:I have a request for this thread: Stop it with the high-top tables already. Please.

I'm 5' tall on a good day. I do not enjoy climbing into and out of my chair. I also don't like trying to jump off it. I'm too clumsy for that. Especially if I'm wearing heels. These tall tables used to just be in bar areas, and I could overlook that. But, now they seem to be everywhere, and I hate them. They make me look like an undignified child climbing up to the adult table. At 35, that's not an image I want to project.

Yes, yes, damn those high-tops!!

OK I have one;
When I sit down and ask for a coctail while I look through the menu I appreciate it if the coctail get's there before I've already gone through the entire process of scanning the menu, ordering, and having the meal presented.
On a related note, if I specifically ask for a glass of wine with my dinner when ordering that means I want to drink it with my dinner. Please coordinate the delivery of the two to be at least close in timing. When you bring my dinner and then disappear I can wait for a bit and hope you'll return with the wine, but if you don't I'm not faced with 2 bad options, eat dinner without the wine I wanted to accompany it or let my dinner get cold while I wait for my wine. If you must, then bring the wine a few minutes early please and let me know the meal will be out shortly.