Would you have said anything...?

This afternoon, I was in a well known bakery, waiting to pick up some cookies. The counter help was filling orders one by one, and I was trying to wait patiently. and as I waited, I began to notice that the lady at the counter wiped her nose with the back of her hand. Oh my...I didn't want her to go and fill my order and touch my cookies. I began to go over what I planned to say to her. "I'd like you to wash your hands before you fill my order"...or..."would you please put on a pair of gloves before you get my cookies?" I didn't want to create a scene. And out of nowhere, another worker came over and started filling my requested order. I was off the hook. Still bothered...but after 35 years in the kitchen, I'm never surprised. Relieved actually, as I wasn't in the mood for a confrontation. As I was getting my change, she handed me a menu and said "Try our sandwiches next time. The store next door doesn't use our bread anymore."

A few minutes later, I was in a well known high end food store, working my way back to the dairy department. I couldn't help but notice that the young employee giving out samples of a cheese spread and crackers, was wearing gloves. To me, gloves mean absolutely nothing. In fact, they create an illusion of cleanliness while providing little to no protection. The next thing I noticed was the fact that she was chewing food. This meant that she was transferring food with "protected" hands to her mouth and then transferring bacteria from her mouth with the same "protected" hands back to the cheese and then to the mouths of unsuspecting customers.

Would you have spoken to management in either situation? Or called the health department?

I'm sure this thread belongs in Other Culinary Chat, but in the meantime...

I had a situation analogous to your first one, and I'll tell you what I did. It also happened in a well-known bakery. There were two counterpeople, customers were being waited on in order, and it was luck of the draw which counterperson you would get. I was there to bring back some items for my wife, who was ill. One of the two young ladies behind the counter was sneezing and coughing and really shouldn't have come to work. (If I were her boss, I would have sent her home.) 50/50 chance had its way and she was my counterperson when it was my turn. Perhaps because this was for my wife, whom I am protective of, I had absolutely no compunction about saying, out loud and not in a confidential whisper, the following: "I'm sorry, but my wife is ill, and I can't have you filling my order. I'll wait for the other young lady."

Yes, I would have spoken to management on the theory that they want workers to do the right thing but can't ensure it happens unless they know when it doesn't.

I think it's easy for the workplace to become familiar space and then to forget home habits don't apply. I've spoken to management on a few occasions, once when the employee working a cheese counter started juggling! cheeses. I thought it was completely appropriate to remind him, and his manager, that the juggling toys were FOOD for pete's sake.

Then there was the time a check out clerk took my bunch of cilantro, stuck his nose in it, sniffed it and said to the girl bagging groceries that he thought it smelled good. So I told him I had planned to eat that. He looked completely shocked with himself and apologized. Again, the workplace had become too familiar.

I say, speak up or the behavior will continue. And maybe tell the manager that you won't be shopping there unless they "clean" up their act.

Evil Ronnie wrote:This afternoon, I was in a well known bakery, waiting to pick up some cookies. The counter help was filling orders one by one, and I was trying to wait patiently. and as I waited, I began to notice that the lady at the counter wiped her nose with the back of her hand. Oh my...I didn't want her to go and fill my order and touch my cookies. I began to go over what I planned to say to her. "I'd like you to wash your hands before you fill my order"...or..."would you please put on a pair of gloves before you get my cookies?" I didn't want to create a scene. And out of nowhere, another worker came over and started filling my requested order. I was off the hook. Still bothered...but after 35 years in the kitchen, I'm never surprised. Relieved actually, as I wasn't in the mood for a confrontation. As I was getting my change, she handed me a menu and said "Try our sandwiches next time. The store next door doesn't use our bread anymore."

A few minutes later, I was in a well known high end food store, working my way back to the dairy department. I couldn't help but notice that the young employee giving out samples of a cheese spread and crackers, was wearing gloves. To me, gloves mean absolutely nothing. In fact, they create an illusion of cleanliness while providing little to no protection. The next thing I noticed was the fact that she was chewing food. This meant that she was transferring food with "protected" hands to her mouth and then transferring bacteria from her mouth with the same "protected" hands back to the cheese and then to the mouths of unsuspecting customers.

Would you have spoken to management in either situation? Or called the health department?

I probably wouldn't have said anything but I almost certainly would have left without making a purchase at stop #1 and I definitely wouldn't have tried a sample at stop #2. But maybe that'd just be naive on my part. I'm guessing that instances like these happen a lot more frequently than they're actually witnessed or noticed. I mean these were out in the open. One can only imagine (or try not to) what happens behind closed kitchen doors at some places.

I used to consider myself fairly impervious to stuff like this but lately, I have to admit that it disturbs me a lot more than it used to. Reading health department reports on some places I have loved over the years has me thinking twice about continuing to visit them.

=R=

In all honesty, I doubt I'd have said anything.

Gross anecdote alert:
In my youth, I hung out at an all night diner that put up with me and my friends and were ok with the bottomless cups of coffee and whatever went on out back. Cherry Master machines in the coat room and all. The owner/cook had some sort of eye infection that would weep and he kept a rag on hand to dab at the pus. At the time, we laughed it off and commented on how gross it was while tucking into grilled cheese, pizza puffs and freezer fries. Now, I shudder at the thought.

As an owner, I would have liked to know if it was my place. It can be scary what "no big deal" is in some folks minds, I'd hate to think what else was going on behind the curtain!

I'd suggest a short and polite note to the stores in question.

I think letting management know is preferable to calling the health department -- at least the first time. If management apologizes and you see an improvement, you've helped the store and store manager. If management tells you to go jump off a cliff, then consider calling the health department. But no point getting some possibly very nice and responsible owner into massive trouble with a government agency just because an employee is a ditz.

I do think that it's reasonable, however, to not accept food from someone who appears to be disease ridden.

*cliche alert* I've worked in the "industry" for x amount of years. There are no "sick days." You either find someone to cover your shift, or you suck it up & come in or risk getting "written up," or screwed on the next few week's schedule because whoever makes it is pissed at you, or fired. Or you can go to a doctor & get a note attesting to the fact that you were sick, but without health insurance we don't really want to spend our HARD EARNED money on that unless it's a truly dire situation versus the common cold. I was sick recently...fever, cough, burning throat, etc. I couldn't find anyone to cover my shift. I talked to my GM. He told me if I didn't come in or find someone to cover I'd be suspended for a week. I can't afford that so I worked. Guess what? My restaurant has a multi page thread here on LTH, full of glowing reviews. So you see, restaurants aren't a "common" workplace, & I find it really ironic that the guy who started this thread oughta know that.

Did she touch your cookies with the BACK of her hand? Did the gloved employee stick her fingers IN her mouth when she ate the cheese? Evil Ronnie, do you wash YOUR hands every 15 minutes when you're on the line? When you're working, you never taste the food, scratch your neck, cough, etc. without washing your hands? Was this REALLY worth starting a topic belittling food service employees on an internet food chat site???

& how many of you have kids that snot & drool all over the place? Does that mean no one should ever come to your house for dinner?

Calm down, it's not a big deal. If it was, everyone who ever went out to eat would've been deathly ill & died by now. Trust me, the people who are making & serving your food every time you eat out aren't always in the best of health, don't sterilize their hands every 2 minutes, but holy shit, you're still alive. The same goes for ANY workplace...banks, shoestores, the dmv...but they don't have websites devoted to dissecting every single factor of their existence in the same way restaurants do.

Listen, if you're that concerned about this then maybe lobby congress or something for better healthcare for restaurant workers rather than rant about it on the internet & blame the employees. Do you really think they wanted to go to work sick? No, they'd rather be home in bed sipping tea & taking a "sick day" but like I said, we don't have that luxury. WE HAVE NO SICK DAYS.
*rant over*

ronnie_suburban wrote:I used to consider myself fairly impervious to stuff like this but lately, I have to admit that it disturbs me a lot more than it used to.

I would say this also, and I know the reason. I wonder if the same thinking applies to you.

The reason: I am getting older. (I am now in my low-sixties.) I am in excellent health, and very robust; however, I am not the same invulnerable guy that I was before. I don't (I can't) take my health for granted anymore. I do catch colds more than I used to, and serious health issues arise for me and my wife more than they used to. (Nothing out of the ordinary for people our age, but still, not the same as when we were in our thirties.) Where once the idea of catching someone else's sickness rolled off my back, I can no longer allow it to. My priorities are less foolish than they used to be, and if I must do something to reduce the foolish risk of catching a cold or respiratory infection or transmitting someone else's cold or respiratory infection to my wife, I will do it. Even at the risk of causing offense when I insist that a different counterperson or waitperson handle my transaction.

sin wrote:*cliche alert* I've worked in the "industry" for x amount of years. There are no "sick days." You either find someone to cover your shift, or you suck it up & come in or risk getting "written up," or screwed on the next few week's schedule because whoever makes it is pissed at you, or fired. Or you can go to a doctor & get a note attesting to the fact that you were sick, but without health insurance we don't really want to spend our HARD EARNED money on that unless it's a truly dire situation versus the common cold. I was sick recently...fever, cough, burning throat, etc. I couldn't find anyone to cover my shift. I talked to my GM. He told me if I didn't come in or find someone to cover I'd be suspended for a week. I can't afford that so I worked. Guess what? My restaurant has a multi page thread here on LTH, full of glowing reviews. So you see, restaurants aren't a "common" workplace, & I find it really ironic that the guy who started this thread oughta know that.

Did she touch your cookies with the BACK of her hand? Did the gloved employee stick her fingers IN her mouth when she ate the cheese? Evil Ronnie, do you wash YOUR hands every 15 minutes when you're on the line? When you're working, you never taste the food, scratch your neck, cough, etc. without washing your hands? Was this REALLY worth starting a topic belittling food service employees on an internet food chat site???

& how many of you have kids that snot & drool all over the place? Does that mean no one should ever come to your house for dinner?

Calm down, it's not a big deal. If it was, everyone who ever went out to eat would've been deathly ill & died by now. Trust me, the people who are making & serving your food every time you eat out aren't always in the best of health, don't sterilize their hands every 2 minutes, but holy shit, you're still alive. The same goes for ANY workplace...banks, shoestores, the dmv...but they don't have websites devoted to dissecting every single factor of their existence in the same way restaurants do.

Listen, if you're that concerned about this then maybe lobby congress or something for better healthcare for restaurant workers rather than rant about it on the internet & blame the employees. Do you really think they wanted to go to work sick? No, they'd rather be home in bed sipping tea & taking a "sick day" but like I said, we don't have that luxury. WE HAVE NO SICK DAYS.
*rant over*

Sin,

I'm not ranting...but you are! I recently worked through a cold during the final push of our holiday season...and yes, I washed my hands every 5-10 minutes...for several consecutive twelve hour days. Every time I had to reach for the kleenex box I went and washed my hands. We taste with plastic spoons which are then discarded. When we scratch our necks, faces, etc...we wash our hands. Period. And I 'm lucky to work in a segment of hospitality which provides healthcare benefits.

I merely started a dialogue...you're the one who needs to calm down!

Contacting management after the fact seems like a useful, non-confrontational response.

I had a related issue recently: I was in a butcher shop. The counter-person handled the raw meat, packaged it, and then handled my credit card.

Darren72 wrote:Contacting management after the fact seems like a useful, non-confrontational response.

I agree that it is good policy in general to avoid confrontation (and certainly, when confrontation is necessary, it should be done as pleasantly as possible), but contacting management after the fact will do nothing to prevent a virus or infection being transmitted to you by a person behind the counter who should not be behind the counter. The only thing that will accomplish that is doing something to avert it in the moment.

Darren72 wrote:Contacting management after the fact seems like a useful, non-confrontational response.

I had a related issue recently: I was in a butcher shop. The counter-person handled the raw meat, packaged it, and then handled my credit card.

Be careful not to eat anything off of that (possibly) contaminated credit card. But, in all seriousness, I have to wonder how the health inspectors deal with this side of foodservice (retail), with constant multitasking between food prep and direct interaction with customers. The inspections must be very interesting.

riddlemay wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:I used to consider myself fairly impervious to stuff like this but lately, I have to admit that it disturbs me a lot more than it used to.

I would say this also, and I know the reason. I wonder if the same thinking applies to you.

The reason: I am getting older. (I am now in my low-sixties.) I am in excellent health, and very robust; however, I am not the same invulnerable guy that I was before. I don't (I can't) take my health for granted anymore. I do catch colds more than I used to, and serious health issues arise for me and my wife more than they used to. (Nothing out of the ordinary for people our age, but still, not the same as when we were in our thirties.) Where once the idea of catching someone else's sickness rolled off my back, I can no longer allow it to. My priorities are less foolish than they used to be, and if I must do something to reduce the foolish risk of catching a cold or respiratory infection or transmitting someone else's cold or respiratory infection to my wife, I will do it. Even at the risk of causing offense when I insist that a different counterperson or waitperson handle my transaction.

I contracted cholera a couple of years ago at an extremely reputable sushi place here in town. I know this because I was so sick, I had to go to the hospital. The lab work came back positive for cholera, which triggers an automatic investigation by the county. During the interview they conducted with me, it was made clear to me that the strain of bacteria they discovered could only be contracted by eating raw shellfish. The interviewer was fascinated by this because he hadn't seen a case of cholera in over 2 decades. Since I'd only eaten raw shellfish once in the month leading up to when I got sick, it was 100% clear where I'd gotten it. I realize that this was a very freak thing because I was the only one in our 4-top who got sick (we each ate one kumamoto oyster and mine was the jackpot) but I've been a lot less gung ho ever since it happened. Otoh, because I know it wasn't really the fault of the place, I've been back there several times since the cholera incident (all without incident). But ever since it happened, I'm a slightly different kind of eater.

=R=

I have been in the industry for a long time. Right now where I work (also multiple glowing posts about it here on LTH) everyone who is sick is sent home or allowed to call in. In fact, I'm writing this after being sent home by my GM who is now working my floor shift because she thinks I'm too sick to work. Yes, it's common for restaurants to allow (hell, even force) contagious workers to come in. We have all been there, done that. But it should not be a recognized "norm" to have sick employees on shift--especially with GI issues. That's just nasty.

Call the management before the health department. They should be allowed the chance to rectify the issue. If nothing happens, then by all means, send for the Wolf

Evil Ronnie wrote:

Darren72 wrote:Contacting management after the fact seems like a useful, non-confrontational response.

I had a related issue recently: I was in a butcher shop. The counter-person handled the raw meat, packaged it, and then handled my credit card.

Be careful not to eat anything off of that (possibly) contaminated credit card. But, in all seriousness, I have to wonder how the health inspectors deal with this side of foodservice (retail), with constant multitasking between food prep and direct interaction with customers. The inspections must be very interesting.

They are supposed to wash hands between food and register (ha). That or have two persons, use gloves, or deli paper.

I was at a new sandwich shop in the Loop on X-mas eve. Thankful it was open (I had to work too) I ordered a sandwich. I was the only customer there at the time. Even though there were a few employees standing around the counter next to the food, another employee was called to fill my order. He came out from the back and was wearing gloves. However he proceeded to wash his hands still wearing the gloves-thus washing the gloves. He made the sandwich and returned to the back room wearing the gloves. Weird.

Elfin wrote:I was at a new sandwich shop in the Loop on X-mas eve. Thankful it was open (I had to work too) I ordered a sandwich.

Where is it? What's the name of it?

Had a similar experience in the bakery section of a very-rapidly-expanding-grocery chain in the Chicagoland area. The worker was wearing gloves (which, I agree with above comments, to me also means nothing) but proceeded to touch his face repeatedly. As he was the only person working in the bakery at the time, we said "still looking" when our turn came and then walked away.

I called the store manager after we got home to let him know what had occurred. He was fairly blase and said only that their workers are trained to know better. No further comment or even a sincere apology offered.

sin wrote:*cliche alert* I've worked in the "industry" for x amount of years. There are no "sick days." You either find someone to cover your shift, or you suck it up & come in or risk getting "written up," or screwed on the next few week's schedule because whoever makes it is pissed at you, or fired. Or you can go to a doctor & get a note attesting to the fact that you were sick, but without health insurance we don't really want to spend our HARD EARNED money on that unless it's a truly dire situation versus the common cold. I was sick recently...fever, cough, burning throat, etc. I couldn't find anyone to cover my shift. I talked to my GM. He told me if I didn't come in or find someone to cover I'd be suspended for a week. I can't afford that so I worked. Guess what? My restaurant has a multi page thread here on LTH, full of glowing reviews. So you see, restaurants aren't a "common" workplace, & I find it really ironic that the guy who started this thread oughta know that.

You make a good point.

I have had a persistent chest cold since December 21st or pushing nine days and I am still not over it. If I was still in the industry, would I be able to stay out of the kitchen for NINE days around the holidays? No way.

Fortunately, I can sit in my office, close the door, and cough to my heart's content.

And what's a doctor going to do for a cold or the flu? As my old country doctor used to say, "If you ride it out, you will be out for a week. Otherwise, I can give you something and you'll feel better in seven days."

I used to work for one of the "Top 20 Best Employers" and one of the better ones in the industry ... and received two sick days a year ... and that was it.

I probably would contact the management.

I was once at a well known Chicago restaurant (a top restaurant) with an open kitchen. One of the cooks dropped a food ingredient on the floor, and looked around to see if anyone noticed. She didn't notice I was watching her. When she thought no one had seen it, she picked it up off the floor and put it in the sautée pan.

People who handle other people's food need paid sick days!! I'm not especially squeamish (despite being up there in years), but I really do not want anyone with flu or a hacking cough anywhere near me or my food, whether or not they wash their hands. That said, I tend to assume that 12 bad things have happened for every one that I see, and I really try not to think about it too much. I've survived thus far!

Evil Ronnie wrote:This afternoon, I was in a well known bakery, waiting to pick up some cookies. The counter help was filling orders one by one, and I was trying to wait patiently. and as I waited, I began to notice that the lady at the counter wiped her nose with the back of her hand. Oh my...I didn't want her to go and fill my order and touch my cookies. I began to go over what I planned to say to her. I've been looking to find the best Malvern Dentist where I can get my root canal filled safely and hygenically. "I'd like you to wash your hands before you fill my order"...or..."would you please put on a pair of gloves before you get my cookies?" I didn't want to create a scene. And out of nowhere, another worker came over and started filling my requested order. I was off the hook. Still bothered...but after 35 years in the kitchen, I'm never surprised. Relieved actually, as I wasn't in the mood for a confrontation. As I was getting my change, she handed me a menu and said "Try our sandwiches next time. The store next door doesn't use our bread anymore."

A few minutes later, I was in a well known high end food store, working my way back to the dairy department. I couldn't help but notice that the young employee giving out samples of a cheese spread and crackers, was wearing gloves. To me, gloves mean absolutely nothing. In fact, they create an illusion of cleanliness while providing little to no protection. The next thing I noticed was the fact that she was chewing food. You should also be able to find the best class for Team Fortress easily from the TF2 aimbot site. This meant that she was transferring food with "protected" hands to her mouth and then transferring bacteria from her mouth with the same "protected" hands back to the cheese and then to the mouths of unsuspecting customers.

Would you have spoken to management in either situation? Or called the health department?

I've been in a similar situation, I actually spoke to the management about it at a later point as it was happening on a repeated basis - solved the issue completely

A couple of weeks ago I was in a brand-new artisanal boulangerie+patisserie in Provence. They had a neat hands-off checkout system: every item had a little tag, which was read by the machine. The product came through a gate, bagged. You then put your card or cash in the front of the machine, and it checked you out, gave you change, etc. The counter people never handled anything (e.g., money) from the customer side, or bags etc. Only product. It was *very* impressive.

Geo