Your thoughts on fried chicken

I probably enjoy fried chicken as much if not more than the next person. Hot or cold, sitting down or standing, with cream gravy or without.

My mother always fried it in crisco. I've been using peanut oil for the last few years, but have recently tried fresh manteca from the Mexican market. For me it's a little heavy tasting. I Think my next batch will be in peanut oil.

So, here are my questions:

1. To marinate or not? Some southern cooks use a sugarless brine. Lately, I've just seasoned the day before with kosher salt and freshly ground black pepper

2. Eggwash or buttermilk? I usually skip this step, but on occasion do a 3 step flour-wash-flour treatment.

3. A quick air drying or not before frying?

4. Type of fat you prefer using and why?

5. How to drain? Paper bag or wire rack?

6. Seasoning for your flour?

7. Cream gravy or brown?

8. Mashed potatoes or rice as a side dish?

9. The chicken itself. Any experience with freshly killed birds?

Evil Ronnie

I like to soak chicken in a buttermilk brine for a few hours before I dredge in flour. I air dry for 15 minutes or so over a rack to allow excess moisture and flour to fall off. My preference frying medium is freshly rendered lard. I just plain like to flavor better. Drain on a wire rack. I usually season flour with salt, black pepper, cayenne pepper, or maybe some some cajun seasoning. My wife likes Mrs. Dash and I use that when I have a fleeting moment of unselfishness. I like both brown and cream gravies. Fond has more to do with the gravy. I do like a medium thick gravy. Mashed pototes with lots of butter and gravy.

I don't have experience with fresh killed but I do prefer fresh chickens vs. the "enhanced".

The summer after my freshman year in college, my summer roommate Alden and I, living for reasons of general penury in Ottawa, KS, decided we wanted fried chicken one night. However, we had no idea how the crispy stuff got on the chicken, or indeed even what it was made of (I had an idea there was egg involved in adhering the sticky stuff to the chicken-- it's a wonder I didn't end up making a bone-in chicken monte cristo). So we wound up buying a box of Banquet frozen chicken, pre-crispy-stuffed. As we were cooking it in the oven, we decided we wanted gravy with it. Having no idea what gravy was actually made of, we raced back out to the grocery store and bought a jar of somebody or other's premade, reheatable gravy.

As we were eating this triumph of technology, and not really liking it much, I decided that I had had enough of eating utter crap because I didn't know any better. When next I had a little money, I bought a wok, which happily came with a basic (very) Chinese cookbook. I still had a long ways to go, since I tended to cook everything to mush in it, but at least now I was taking responsibility for my own culinary life.

That said, I never really have learned to make very good fried chicken, but to judge by so many of the restaurants I've tried it in (ie, L and G, mentioned recently in the thread about driving to Indianapolis), neither have very many other people, at least without going through a training program to learn The Colonel's System. Every year one of my wife's bosses has a potluck to-do at his house in (on?) the Michiana Shores, and his contribution is always enormous tubs of terrific fried chicken from some place over there, maybe just from some local woman who caters it, and we always come home afterward with the equivalent of about nine chickens which we eat for the next several days. So I pretty much get my entire fried chicken fix for the year taken care of in one week in August.

THAT said, looking forward to the tips I'll pick up here...

2. Eggwash or buttermilk?
Buttermilk here; also acts as a marinade.

3. A quick air drying or not before frying?
Air dry before. Allows the crust to set better.

4. Type of fat you prefer using and why?
Crisco. Because that's the way Mom did it and this, for me, is a comfort food dish as much about the food as it is the memories. And Crisco really does work well, too.

5. How to drain? Paper bag or wire rack?
Wire rack. Paper bag is a great low/no-budget technique but wire rack works better.

6. Seasoning for your flour?
Seasoning goes on the chicken before the flour; the flour "layer" prevents any of the seasonings underneath from burning. We use salt, paprika, cayenne and maybe some garlic powder (I know, I know, blasphemy!).

7. Cream gravy or brown?
Cream.

8. Mashed potatoes or rice as a side dish?
Either one works. Depends on if my Dad's around - only one in our family that doesn't really like potatoes. So of course if he's there I have to serve mashies! Actually I like the rice and ladeling some cream gravy over that as well.

Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 13
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Your thoughts on fried chicken
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Every Saturday my grandfather fried a chicken that he got that morning at the Farmers Market. Just for whoever stopped by, it was usually mostly gone by midafternoon but sometimes there'd be a few pieces left at for early supper for the kids.

I now fry chicken in the same pan he used, which was in its second generation of use then, a great old Wagner cast iron with a bottom as smooth as silk. The original non-stick pan.

Buttermilk marinade. Airdry. Peanut oil, it's light and doesn't break too easily. Used to use corn oil, but since most corn is now GMO, have switched. Wire racks. Salt and pepper in the flour. No cayenne, use hot sauce on the chicken. No gravy, so no mashed or rice. I generally make fried chicken like my grandfather did, as a food to have around, I'll make a big batch if we're having houseguests, or to take to a friend if there's an illness or death in the family. If anything, I will generally try to make my grandma's cole slaw when I do chicken, she was famous for it.

A few years ago, I adopted the method used by Leah Chase of DookieChase (hope I'm spelling it right) in New Orleans.

She marinates for about eight hours in seasoned condensed milk, cuts the chicken into very small pieces (breasts atre quartered and a breast strip is left attached to each wing. She uses just a little flour with seasoned salt (i prefer just salt and pepper) to coat it. It has to rest before coating and is drained on paper towels.

The crust is delicate and thin. very nice.

Speaking about Fried Chicken, I had the worst Southern Fried Chicken from Fox & Obel last weekend. It was soooo salty I couldnt have more than a few bites - and I love salt. At over $10/lb it was a major disappointment. Just a heads up!

My Texas Grandmother's fried chicken (oddly enough, she was Jewish):

Soak chicken overnight in milk with a few good shakes of tabasco.

Remove chicken a piece at a time and salt and pepper liberally. Roll in flour and place on a rack to dry (about 10-15 minutes). Roll, again, in the flour before placing into hot crisco with a little chicken fat or butter mixed in. Use a cast iron pan - I cannot stress this strongly enough. Turn frequently with tongs, never pierce the chicken. Do not overcrowd the pan. Drain on paper bag. After all the chicken is cooked, drain the oil, less a couple of tablespoons for gravy, and fill pan with chicken again. Add a single ice cube and cover. This steams the chicken and remarkably does not soften the crust. Keep chicken warm in oven while making the gravy. Add fat back to the pan and stir up all the little crunchy bits. Add same amount of flour as fat to the pan and stir, stir, stir until golden brown. Add cream. About 1 pint to 2 T. fat and flour.

Serve with mashed potates, never-ever-ever rice? Rice? Are we still in America?

Bryan,

Jewish Texans, plenty of them. Former Dallas Mayor Annette Strauss, TV mogul Aaron Spelling, Stanley Marcus of Neiman Marcus, longtime EDS exec Morton Meyerson, not to mention the famous turkey smoker Sam Greenberg, of Greenberg Smoked Turkeys in Tyler (near Greenberg, TX), the Zales, the Pearle family, the Sangers of Dallas...the Sakowitzes...

Rice and gravy with fried chicken? Sure, just ask the folks down near Beaumont or Baton Rouge.

Evil Ronnie

After 4 or 5 attempts, I produced the first batch of truly great fried chicken last night. I thought I'd add a couple tips to this thread.

1) Crisco - really works the best

2) I season the chicken and the flour

3) buttermilk/hot sauce/salt brine

3) Especially key in my experience- add a few tablespoons of buttermilk to the flour before dredging the chicken - it creates the flakey and substantial texture to the batter and adhere's nicely to the post-brined chicken. I do not "dry" the chicken, but I do let it sit for awhile before dredging it. It is still moist.

4) Drain on Paper bags

There were only a few things my grandmother in Georgia could cook and fried chicken was one of them. She used to simply shake the chicken pieces in a paper bag with seasoned flour and fry them in Crisco in a cast iron pan. I like draining it on paper bags.

Personally I like mashed potatoes and turnip greens with pepper vinegar are a must.

YourPalWill,

Does DookieChase really used condensed milk? Or did you mean evaporated?

I just can't wrap my brain around how fried chicken started with condensed milk would taste....

Call me a philistine, but.....

GRAVY on fried chicken??

Heh. Actually, I'd try it....just to say I did.

But here in town, Austin Leslie (regaled as the 'Fried Chicken King' and the inspiration for that old show 'Frank's Place') easily has the BEST fried chicken I've ever tried. Here's the recipe:

http://www.theneworleanschannel.com/pou ... etail.html

There's that Dookie Chase connection with the use of the evaporated milk, too!

More Austin Leslie + NO chow discussion at this thread over heah.

-ed

I came up with a good seasoning idea for fried chicken last weekend. I am in the habit of making up a batch of the seasoning that the Weber Grill restaurants use for their Beer Can Chicken, since it keeps so well, and I use it so often on roast chicken. I had a yen for fried chicken and some bone-in breasts and buttermilk on hand simultaneously, so I poured a couple of cups of buttermilk in a zippy bag, and, on a whim, added a couple of big tablespoons of the Weber stuff to the bag, mixed it up, and added the chicken. I let it soak for a whole day.

Pulled it out and drained it on a rack the next day. While it was draining, I put two cups of self-rising flour and another couple of tablespoons of the Weber stuff in a plastic bag, and tossed to combine. I added the drained chicken, one piece at a time, shook vigorously, knocked off the excess flour, and put on the rack to dry for fifteen minutes. I then shook each piece in the flour again, shook off the excess, and let sit on the rack again while I slowly heated up some veg oil in a big cast-iron frying frying pan to about 365 or so. I added the chicken pieces, skin-side-down first, and fried for about half an hour, flipped and fried for another twenty, and finished with maybe another five on the skin side. The chicken was drained on a clean rack afterward.

Notes: The oil did not cover the chicken, but rather came a little more than half-way up the the pieces of chicken. The light double crust adhered beautifully, and the chicken was done quite nicely (I used an instant-read thermometer, and it registered 165 when I removed the chicken). YMMV, depending on the size of the chicken piece.

It turned out nice and moist, with a savory and crispy mahogany-brown crust, and was as good cold as it was hot. Having the Weber stuff all ready to go in the cupboard made the prep really fast. Good eats.

So here is the Beer Can Chicken Rub, straight from the source. I usually quadruple it:

http://www.weber.com/bbq/pub/recipe/view.aspx?c=poultry&r=213

There's a recipe for fried chicken in the inaugural issue of Cook's new magazine Cook's Country that looks good. Can't wait to try it. Magazine's worth picking up too.

sti3 wrote:There's a recipe for fried chicken in the inaugural issue of Cook's new magazine Cook's Country that looks good. Can't wait to try it. Magazine's worth picking up too.

That's where I read the tip about adding a little buttermilk to the flour mixture...

I frequently peruse the Chowhounds-South board and came across a post yesterday that linked an article in Macon Magazine about fried chicken.

Thought you all might enjoy!

http://www.maconmagazine.com/features.c ... t=Feature4

Kwe730 wrote:I frequently peruse the Chowhounds-South board and came across a post yesterday that linked an article in Macon Magazine about fried chicken.

Thought you all might enjoy!

http://www.maconmagazine.com/features.c ... t=Feature4

What a tease. The article only goes as far as getting ready to tell you where to get good chicken, then it ends and asks you to subscribe to the magazine.

Steve,

Even the poster on the Chowhound South board noted that. He did offer up some of his own choices however. I'm pretty sure I saw a mention of Macon in Roadfood's web site recently, so you could compare the two.

http://www.chowhound.com/south/boards/s ... 19780.html

One of the things that I found interesting about the Macon article was the mention of using egg. That's not terribly surprising since we're talking about a batter, but I've never thought of the coating on fried chicken as a batter per se. In all the recipes I've seen for fried chicken, I don't think I've ever come across the mention of using egg. Interesting.

So you've ordered up your first year of Macon Magazine?

Hi,

I was reading elsewhere on the internet about someone lamenting they could not replicate their Mother's fried chicken. In the comment section, someone inquired if they had tried pressure cooked fried chicken. I had always assumed broasted chicken was confined to restaurants who had specialized equipment.

To see a technique I had never tried or considered before, I went over to youtube to find there are a number of pressured cooked fried chicken videos out there.



Now here are some warnings you may want to consider: http://missvickie.com/howto/fry/frying.html, while this website looks dated, I think the content is pretty relevant. Miss Vickie even identified a Cook's Illustrated recommended pressure cooker that works as a fryer, too. It is quite apparent she has thought a lot about pressure cooking.

The Magefesa was the recommended pressure cooker/fryer, I learned the gasket is made of silicone rather than rubber. This use of silicone is probably what makes it usable for pressure frying.

Regards,

1. To marinate or not? Brine, with thyme, lemons peel, black peppercorns and bay leaves

2. Eggwash or buttermilk? Flour - buttermilk - flour

3. A quick air drying or not before frying? No

4. Type of fat you prefer using and why? Haven't used anything other than corn oil.

5. How to drain? Paper bag or wire rack? Wire rack in a 200 degree oven

6. Seasoning for your flour?Cayenne, garlic and onion powder, black pepper, salt

7. Cream gravy or brown? Brown, and only on the potatoes

8. Mashed potatoes or rice as a side dish? Mashed potatoes

9. The chicken itself. Any experience with freshly killed birds? When I lived in Beijing there were freshly killed birds in the street markets. They did not fry or roast very well, being very stringy and tough. However, I think most whole chickens sold in China are meant for the soup pot, so you may have better luck with a fresh killed American breed.

It sounds like you are asking after southern fried chicken techniques, so I've answered your questions with that in mind. However, the very best fried chicken I've ever made was a Thai recipe: marinate overnight in a batter of rice flour, chicken stock, fish sauce, red chile, garlic, coriander root and cilantro. Then it goes straight into the oil without extra breading. The rice flour produces a super crackly crust that adheres to every cranny of the meat.

eating while walking wrote:19. The chicken itself. Any experience with freshly killed birds? When I lived in Beijing there were freshly killed birds in the street markets. They did not fry or roast very well, being very stringy and tough. However, I think most whole chickens sold in China are meant for the soup pot, so you may have better luck with a fresh killed American breed.

We learned in this thread a fresh killed bird is tough, though waiting a day before cooking makes for a more pleasant experience.

Regards,

I'm frying A LOT of chicken these days as a member of the top-selling fried chicken program in the company. I used to manage and train teams, now, veritably, I just fry chicken. I mean, I like fried chicken, I fry chicken at home, who knew people were so crazy stupid for it? Anyway, if you like fried chicken you'll LOVE the ultimate sequence in Friedkin's film, Killer Joe.

Christopher Gordon wrote:I'm frying A LOT of chicken these days as a member of the top-selling fried chicken program in the company. I used to manage and train teams, now, veritably, I just fry chicken. I mean, I like fried chicken, I fry chicken at home, who knew people were so crazy stupid for it? Anyway, if you like fried chicken you'll LOVE the ultimate sequence in Friedkin's film, Killer Joe.

Hi,

Just curious, are you pan frying, deep fat frying or using a pressure fryer?

Regards,

Supposedly "mass-production" we are limited to 24 pc per deepfry(3 chickens). We currently lobby corporate for a large capacity fryer. I can easily burn thru 30 buckets(1 chicken per) on a shift. It takes 13 min. to fry the birds. Our proprietary breading/batter process adds time. All of the fried chicken is prepared a la minute, adding further complication. This is, of course, in addition to cooking our ribs, chickens, pork loins, salmon, wings, bone-in chicken breasts, turkey breasts, hams. This is retail, not the restaurant industry, so, of course, I also instruct and manage shifts. Yippee ki yay!

Christopher Gordon wrote:It takes 13 min. to fry the birds.

I'm really getting a lot out of this thread. Frying chicken seems to me to be something of an art form. I've found that most of my siblings are intimidated by the prospect; one of my brothers and I are the only ones among us sibs who are willing to try it. Half of the others never want to attempt it, and the other half want one of us to teach them how to do it. Needless to say, that one intrepid brother and I swap technique tips on this and on many other things having to do with cooking.

I am tempted to post my own fried chicken techniques (based mostly on my dad's method, and nothing fancy--it involves shaking chicken parts and flour and seasonings around in a heavy brown paper grocery bag--plus some tips from Joy of Cooking and Cooks Illustrated), but I think I'll hold off and experiment with some of the intriguing suggestions given here first.

The quoted text raises a question in my mind. Frying time has not been discussed much at all in this thread. I know of course that it will vary with the starting temperature of the chicken and the size of the pieces (and other factors as well?). I suspect that a lot of the variability that I see in crust quality and doneness and moistness is associated with timing and temperature issues.

I'd be curious to see some discussion of timing and temperature. Let's say we consider chicken thighs, brined or marinated or whatever in a refrigerator, then removed from the fridge and from the liquid they're in, if any (which raises the question in my mind of whether pieces that are not brined/marinated in liquid but are rather just seasoned would come up to cooking temperature faster), at some point prior to frying, then fried at, what's the right oil temperature, 375 deg F? Correct me if I'm wrong about that. What I'm wondering: first, do you take the pieces out of the fridge and brining liquid and let them warm up at all before frying, and if so, for how long, and second, assuming deep-frying at 375 or whatever the appropriate temperature is, how do you judge doneness--with a meat thermometer, or just by looks?

The way things work here, I usually end up holding fried chicken pieces for, say, 20 min, ish, in a glass casserole dish in a warm oven until everything's cooked and everyone who's interested shows up to eat--if that influences your answers re timing.

And a p.s. concerning brining: a while ago a copy of Harold McGee's On Food and Cooking (?) fell into my hands. I read it through and passed it on to someone else. I vaguely recall a discussion in that book about brining--specifically, whether or not it was worthwhile to add sugar and other items to a salt-water brine, given the sizes of the particles of those other items, i.e., whether they'd be able to penetrate the chicken flesh or not. If anyone's got that book handy and could comment on HmG's advice on what's worth adding to a brine and what's not, I'd appreciate it.

Katie,

I have a feeling people work with chicken cold from the refrigerator. I know I do.

The few times I have fried chicken, the outside is finished long before the inside. I have finished them off in the oven.

The pressure fried chicken took less than 15 minutes to cook: fried 2-3 minutes initially, lid put on top, once steam is coming out of the lid, then it is timed for 10 minutes. All this time the chicken is cooking in 375 degree oil (I did see where someone used 400).

On the rare occasions I do fry chicken, I use an electric frying pan placed inside a stainless steel sink. I have baking soda open and ready to apply to any fire. Plus it is easier to clean later.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:Katie,

I have a feeling people work with chicken cold from the refrigerator. I know I do.

The few times I have fried chicken, the outside is finished long before the inside. I have finished them off in the oven.

The pressure fried chicken took less than 15 minutes to cook: fried 2-3 minutes initially, lid put on top, once steam is coming out of the lid, then it is timed for 10 minutes. All this time the chicken is cooking in 375 degree oil (I did see where someone used 400).

Thanks, Cathy. I tend to take chicken pieces out of the fridge and let them come up a bit in temperature (though I don't know if that's a good idea, or whether or not it helps) before dredging and frying. I am also a big fan of finishing in the oven (in line with some recipes in The Joy of Cooking).

I admit I have a bit of a fear of pressure cookers that is at about the same level as my fear of pressure canners and slightly above my fear of water-bath canning (although taking your class did help to reduce my fears of both), and space is a problem, so I'd like to avoid buying a pressure cooker if I can figure out how to perfect my chicken frying method with the tools I already have at hand: cast iron pans, Fry Daddy, and oven.

Hi,

I already checked out the price of a pressure cooker/fryer, it is more than I want to spend just to see what it is like. My pressure canner takes up plenty of storage space as-is.

I understand where relying on conventional methods makes sense.

Regards,