This is a really good thread I do hope some restaurant owners are reading it. Some of my biggest pet peeves aside from the service and food are unclean bathrooms and chairs that are either high with those little tables (they should be banned except for bars), or chairs that are so rickety and uncomfortable you either can not sit in them for more than five minutes or you feel that they will actually give way and collapse.

NeroW wrote:Last week I had a table sit for an hour and a half after we were officially "closed," but since we're not a bar, we can't really last call them and throw them out. We don't want to be rude and start scrubbing the floors while you're still there, but if you're abusing the relationship, don't be surprised if it starts to happen around you in a not-as-nice restaurant . . . we do have to go home too

I guess that I see the OPPOSITE problem all the time. I work well into the evening quite often and let me share you some of my pet peeves.

1) I arrive at the restaurant 20 MINUTES before the posted closing time (website and door). They will NOT seat me as they turned off the ovens/fryers or because business was slow.

2) I order off the menu. The first three specials that I try to order results in a "I am sorry bit we are out of that ..."

3) I finish my meal and wait for the check. And wait. And wait. I have finished the meal, all four sections of the WSJ is but still have to wait as the staff is catching a cigarette.

4) I am trying to enjoy my dinner but the waitress has to grab the salt to refill ... then the pepper ... then two minutes later the sugar packages. You can't wait until I am done. And don't bump my feet with the vacuum.

5) The restaurant refuses to restock the salad bar after 8 pm and it is past 10 pm.

6) As the restaurant is slow, the staff is eating dinner or playing around.


It is not like I am getting a discount when I show up late in the day. However, I am sure not getting the same treatment as the customers who show up earlier in the shift.

Independent George wrote:As an addendum to restaurants needing websites: no, a Facebook page does not count.

Agreed!

And several of us said this before, but it's worth saying again:

If you have a brick-and-mortar business you want people to visit, put your goddam address on the first page of your website! Don't make us go hunting for it under "Contact" or "Reservations" or even "Location." Put it on every page if you can. And your phone number, too!

And don't make it flash or a graphic or anything else that can't be copied and pasted. I might want to copy it to a Google map or an email to my dining companions or the blog post I'm writing about you.

Don't play games with your e-mail address, either. If you have a business and you use email to communicate with customers, you just have to suck it up when it comes to spam. Doing stuff like making your email address a picture or "restaurant at stupid dot com" so it can't be crawled is unprofessional-looking, inconvenient for customers and probably won't stop that much spam anyway. And if you put an email address on your website, read your email! And respond to it in a timely manner.

jlawrence01 wrote:It is not like I am getting a discount when I show up late in the day. However, I am sure not getting the same treatment as the customers who show up earlier in the shift.

Yes! If you aren't prepared to treat customers who show up at 9:30 the same service as those who show up at 7, close earlier.

I wish restaurants would announce "last seating" times instead of closing times. I also wish that restaurants that close the kitchen earlier than the bar would not announce only the bar hours. (If I understand it correctly, this common practice is technically illegal in Chicago. If, as most restaurants do, you have a Consumption on Premises-Incidental Activity liquor license, you are not supposed to serve liquor -- the "incidental activity" -- when not engaged in your primary activity -- serving food. The city rarely enforces this, but it may lie behind restaurateurs' reluctance to admit in writing that the kitchen closes four hours earlier than the bar.)

I don't care what time you lock the door and put the chairs up on the tables, I want to know the last time I can come in and order a full meal, from appetizer to dessert, and eat it at a reasonable pace without the staff giving me the fisheye. And I want them to adhere to those hours and not close up early because business is slow or the weather is bad or they want to clean the carpets.

Recently I tried to go to a restaurant that said on its website that it was open till 2 a.m. every day. It was 10:30 and they were closed. There was no sign to indicate they had closed because of an emergency or some other issue. I called and complained. The restaurateur said that it was slow and she didn't want to pay her staff to stand around. Also, they're really only open till 2 (on nights when it isn't slow) on the weekends; during the week, they close at 11 (if they have customers).

I said, "It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. You close early because your late-night business is off, and then late-night customers don't come because they think you're going to be closed." She just yakked more about the cost of the staff and the electricity.

It also became clear she had no idea what it said on her website and didn't care.

It's better to say you close at 10 and stay open till 2 because there are customers than to say you're open till 2 and close at 10. If you're going to have a website, make sure it's accurate and keep it up to date! And communicate with your customers. If you are closing for a good reason -- a holiday, somebody booked the whole restaurant for a private party, critical staff members have bubonic plague -- or any reason at all, put a sign on your door, a message on your answering machine and a notice on the front page of your website about the closure.

Two bad things happened this week.

I show up at a small Mexican restaurant outside of Tucson that is open until 9 pm on their website. We show up at 7:30 pm. I am finishing up dinner at 8:15 pm. Every chair except those at our table is up on the tables. Ever feel like they are rushing you?


Last night, we stop at the Thirsty Whale in Algonquin Commons at 8:30 pm. As we are served out appetizer, a band starts up. This place is little larger than a Panera store and the band has amps that are designed for a larger venue. The noise was deafening to the extent that our ears started to hurt. After ten minutes, we decided to box up the food and take it home.

jlawrence01 wrote:Last night, we stop at the Thirsty Whale in Algonquin Commons at 8:30 pm. As we are served out appetizer, a band starts up. This place is little larger than a Panera store and the band has amps that are designed for a larger venue. The noise was deafening to the extent that our ears started to hurt.

That's what's great about the Thirsty Whale! An ages old institution for loud, heavy rock music.

That's what's great about the Thirsty Whale! An ages old institution for loud, heavy rock music.

The Thirsty Whale closed in 1996. This one is a sports bar way the hell out in Algonquin, 35 miles NW of River Grove, the location of the original.

sundevilpeg wrote:

That's what's great about the Thirsty Whale! An ages old institution for loud, heavy rock music.

The Thirsty Whale closed in 1996. This one is a sports bar way the hell out in Algonquin, 35 miles NW of River Grove, the location of the original.

It is one of several of the Niko's restaurants in and around McHenry County.

2) I order off the menu. The first three specials that I try to order results in a "I am sorry bit we are out of that ..."

4) I am trying to enjoy my dinner but the waitress has to grab the salt to refill ... then the pepper ... then two minutes later the sugar packages. You can't wait until I am done.

Both happened to me Sunday PM @ Prairie Grass, just after I pointed out to my dinner companion how excellent the service is. 3 items in a row that we ordered were unavailable, you'd think after the first one they'd mention the other 86'd items and towards the end of the meal, the salt/pepper sidework interupted our biz discussion.

Jazzfood wrote:Sunday PM @ Prairie Grass...3 items in a row that we ordered were unavailable, you'd think after the first one they'd mention the other 86'd items...

I agree this is highly irritating, and I have my own system for pre-empting the serial frustration. When the server tells me something I've ordered from the menu is unavailable, I reply: "Okay, before I order something else on the menu that's unavailable, why don't you just tell me right now what else on the menu isn't available?" I realize that's a little pissy of me, but it's a whole lot less pissy than I'm going to get if I meet with frustration three times in a row. (And really, advisories about unavailable items ought to occur when menus are delivered, not when orders are being taken.)

Same things with wine. I tend to get a bit pissy when the wine I order off the wine list isn't available. I remember one time I tried four in a row, striking out the first three times. Drives me crazy. One place I remember had little stickers that they placed over the wines that were binned out. I very much appreciated that. Wines, unlike menu items, are pretty definitively out when they're out, esp. if it's an earlier vintage.

Geo

Geo wrote:Same things with wine. I tend to get a bit pissy when the wine I order off the wine list isn't available. I remember one time I tried four in a row, striking out the first three times. Drives me crazy. One place I remember had little stickers that they placed over the wines that were binned out. I very much appreciated that. Wines, unlike menu items, are pretty definitively out when they're out, esp. if it's an earlier vintage.

Geo

Makes me think of this:

Geo wrote:Same things with wine. I tend to get a bit pissy when the wine I order off the wine list isn't available. I remember one time I tried four in a row, striking out the first three times. Drives me crazy. One place I remember had little stickers that they placed over the wines that were binned out. I very much appreciated that. Wines, unlike menu items, are pretty definitively out when they're out, esp. if it's an earlier vintage.

A related wine gripe: When the restaurant tries to fool you into thinking they're not out of a vintage when they are. You order the 2008 Acme Cabernet. The waiter brings your wine, and without calling attention to the discrepancy, shows you a bottle that is the 2010 Acme Cabernet. You say, "This isn't the 2008 Acme Cabernet." He replies, "Oh, right, we don't have that anymore; this is what we have."

That's the conversation you have if you were alert enough to notice the difference in vintage. If your mind was more on what your friend was saying at the time, you might not notice.

If a restaurant doesn't have the 2008 Acme Cabernet anymore, it ought to be off the wine list. Or, if they don't want to print up new wine lists, they can put little stickers on it with corrected vintage years. Restaurants that don't do this--and hope to "squeak by" with wines that are the same varietal and vintner but different vintage from the ones you ordered and agreed to pay for--make me grumpy.

riddlemay wrote:If a restaurant doesn't have the 2008 Acme Cabernet anymore, it ought to be off the wine list. Or, if they don't want to print up new wine lists, they can put little stickers on it with corrected vintage years. Restaurants that don't do this--and hope to "squeak by" with wines that are the same varietal and vintner but different vintage from the ones you ordered and agreed to pay for--make me grumpy.

Makes me even more grumpy when they imply that the vintage doesn't matter. Hey, it's the same wine!

Darren72 wrote:

riddlemay wrote:If a restaurant doesn't have the 2008 Acme Cabernet anymore, it ought to be off the wine list. Or, if they don't want to print up new wine lists, they can put little stickers on it with corrected vintage years. Restaurants that don't do this--and hope to "squeak by" with wines that are the same varietal and vintner but different vintage from the ones you ordered and agreed to pay for--make me grumpy.

Makes me even more grumpy when they imply that the vintage doesn't matter. Hey, it's the same wine!

And when they try to charge you the same price for the younger vintage...which in many cases is not as valuable.

Daily Specials. These are the exceptions to the norm. Thus they are relayed at lightning pace by the server with too much detail or more typically too little detail. For example: "Our fish of the day is swordfish. It is herb encrusted and served with broccoli and pasta with cheese sauce." Huh? Is it a filet, steak or strips? Baked, broiled or fried? What is/are the herb? What kind of pasta and which cheese for the sauce. How are the sides prepared? These problems are compounded when there are several specials offered-I simply can not remember what side is served with which entree. Also, please let the customer know how much the special costs! A Daily Special menu, card or paper should be given or inserted in the menu for further contemplation with information to make an informed choice.

Joel F, thanks for the link to Monty Python's cheese shop sketch, brightened my drizzly day!

Another thing restaurants could do to make me less grumpy is to clean their menus. No one likes to receive a menu sticky with sauce or covered with bits of someone else's food, it's just gross. I find myself immediately thinking about the cleanliness of the kitchen and bathrooms and the meal is off to a bad start before the food arrives.

3 items in a row that we ordered were unavailable

Oh, I can top this. Just the other Saturday night at Fiorenza Ristorante in Forest Park....

I had checked out the menu on line beforehand and there were more than a few dishes that sounded good.
We got there on time for our 6:30 reservation and as my wife hadn't seen the menu like I had, we ordered drinks and an app
and and started looking at the menu (for her) and the wine list. The restaurant wasn't all that busy so I felt we could settle in and not rush to order.
About 45 minutes later we decided to order. Me: I'll have the chef's special risotto. Them: We're out. Me: I'll have the veal chop.
Them: We're out. Me: I'll have the veal saltimboca..Them We're out...of VEAL. Me: Okaaay, I'll have the salmon. Them: We're out.
Me: I'll have the other salmon dish. Them: We're out...of SALMON and we're out of calimari too. 0 for SIX!

How can an Italian restaurant, early on a Saturday night, be out of veal and calamari? And, my martini was watered down.
Never going back. So, my advice to restaurants. ? Don't run out of food. It's your JOB.

hoppy2468 wrote:

3 items in a row that we ordered were unavailable

Oh, I can top this. Just the other Saturday night at Fiorenza Ristorante in Forest Park....

I had checked out the menu on line beforehand and there were more than a few dishes that sounded good.
We got there on time for our 6:30 reservation and as my wife hadn't seen the menu like I had, we ordered drinks and an app
and and started looking at the menu (for her) and the wine list. The restaurant wasn't all that busy so I felt we could settle in and not rush to order.
About 45 minutes later we decided to order. Me: I'll have the chef's special risotto. Them: We're out. Me: I'll have the veal chop.
Them: We're out. Me: I'll have the veal saltimboca..Them We're out...of VEAL. Me: Okaaay, I'll have the salmon. Them: We're out.
Me: I'll have the other salmon dish. Them: We're out...of SALMON and we're out of calimari too. 0 for SIX!

How can an Italian restaurant, early on a Saturday night, be out of veal and calamari? And, my martini was watered down.
Never going back. So, my advice to restaurants. ? Don't run out of food. It's your JOB.

Out of the Chef's Special?

Unbelievable: http://www.oakpark.com/Community/Blogs/ ... Fiorenza-/

Or maybe this contest caused a run on that item. As for the others...still unbelievable.

Elfin wrote:Daily Specials. These are the exceptions to the norm. Thus they are relayed at lightning pace by the server with too much detail or more typically too little detail. For example: "Our fish of the day is swordfish. It is herb encrusted and served with broccoli and pasta with cheese sauce." Huh? Is it a filet, steak or strips? Baked, broiled or fried? What is/are the herb? What kind of pasta and which cheese for the sauce. How are the sides prepared? These problems are compounded when there are several specials offered-I simply can not remember what side is served with which entree. Also, please let the customer know how much the special costs! A Daily Special menu, card or paper should be given or inserted in the menu for further contemplation with information to make an informed choice.

What bothers me is when you head into a restaurant and the most expensive entree is $15.95. The server goes through the specials. When you ask the prices of the specials, you get a sheepish grin ... and a price between $25-30.

Or maybe this contest caused a run on that item.

We were there the week before the contest.

Good to know, really.

Oooh, my kind of thread!

1 - I'll start with the controversial doggie bag thing. For me, while I would like the server to box up my food and bring it back to me (on the table is fine, I'll put it on the booth next to me - although if I'm at a table, then I might put it on the floor depending on how it looks down there ), I WANT to box my own food. Most of the servers do it wrong. I would like to be ASKED if I want them to do it or me. How about these idiots who lay pizza slices on top of one another so it all gets soggy?! Gee, thanks for boxing it up for me!

2 - Attention Fast Food restaurants - instead of making me have to cross my fingers every time I order on whether I'll get fresh, hot food - how about ASKING me if I would like to wait for guaranteed hot food. Yes I would! Let some other sheep get the lukewarm food that they don't care about.

3 - Coat room? Never use them unless I have a long coat and it's what everyone else is doing there. But hooks in the restaurant are nice. This is a tough subject. Giving away the wrong coat is 100% the restaurants fault. That's like saying at the valet parking - "sorry we gave away your car by mistake, but it's not our fault." Yes it is your fault, and you will be paying for it.

4 - Running out of food. The ol' "Prime Rib may not be available tonight." It happens. I tend to give them a break on it. Sometimes you get a run on one item and it runs out. But if it happens all the time? Make MORE!!!

5 - The cooks keeping an outside door open during winter. Absolutely no way. I have been in a bunch of places where it felt like someone turned on an A/C fan with cold air. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen and get another job.

6 - Website - Yeah, turn OFF the stupid music, kill the flash, kill the effects. I want lots of food porn photos, not a portfolio for some college kid who does graphic design.

7 - Timing the food courses. Some places can do it, others can't. I no longer put my life in their hands. I will not order my main course until the first one arrives and/or has been eaten. I also LOVE to hear that some restaurants don't like people who want to order in stages. Sorry, but others have made me paranoid to the extent that I have made up my mind on this one.

8 - Servers who don't write down my order. Oh man does this one take the cake for me. I simply can't stand it. Who are they trying to impress? All they are doing is giving me anxiety. Because if they screw up the order, the meal could be ruined. All they had to do was write it down. I basically will not order now unless they write it down. Or I challenge them. If they blow it, they get NO TIP. After all, if you get the order wrong because you didn't write it down, what am I tipping for? You ruined the whole evening. There are a few higher end places where I do trust them, but they are the pros.

9 - I hate places that say "we close at X:00" and actually think they are closing the entire restaurant BY then. Conversely it warms my heart to go into any restaurant a few minutes before the closing time and they accommodate me as if it were during the middle of the day with no hesitation. Restaurants should have a "Kitchen Closes at" time to avoid confusion.

A couple of cents from me-

Tell me what the ingredients are. "Pasta with fresh peas and prosciutto" is not the same as "Pasta with fresh peas, prosciutto, SWIMMING IN ALFREDO SAUCE OR CREAM BASED GOO.

If an order is placed for take-out, please read the list of items that were in the order, and then place those items in the carry out bag. That way, when the order is complete, you can give it to the customer. This is generally how take out works, yet, so many have absolutely no idea (or just simply do not give a shit.) Also, it would be nice to have the same food in your takeout orders as is offered to your dine -in customers. If you are offering pancakes to go, I would love some butter and syrup to go with them. I do take out breakfast often, you'd be so frickin surprised at how many breakfast places have a carryout menu with their full breakfast offerings listed, yet when you order one of their listed breakfast offerings, you get an omelet in a clamshell with dry toast and nothing else. It's like people simply lose common sense when an order is placed for takeout off of the takeout menu. It amazes me. I've learned to ask for "butter and syrup" or "butter and jam" at the places where the servers are totally clueless when it comes to takeout orders for b-fast.

Just because I speak english, does NOT mean I don't like serious heat from chilies. I get it- you probably get complaints from the ppl who don't like it, yet order it anyway. Please, though, don't tell me it's "too spicy" for me. It's not. Trust me, it's not. I never ask "how spicy is it?" and I cringe when ppl do. If you have to ask, it's not for you. Nobody knows how spicy things are on your palate but you. I don't ever have to ask, because I LIKE the pain. I WANT the bead of sweat on my brow when I'm diggin in.

Server, if you are busy, I get it, TRUST me - been there plenty of times myself. If I ask you twice for the side of hot sauce or achar, or chili oil, or the extra dish of whatever for the table to share, and I don't get it, I might not mind too much, but that's up to me. I will make a note of that with the gratuity. Your gratuity generally starts at 20% when I walk in the door, and then I adjust up or down accordingly. I'm black, too, so, if you've "heard certain things about my brethren," your prejudice will once again, bite you in the butt.

If I see something on my bill that I ordered, but did not get, expect an atomic reaction if my wife is NOT with me. I'll make an effort to remind you of the order once, maybe twice if I REALLY want it. If my wife IS with me, and the bill shows an item we ordered, but didn't get, expect a nuclear holocaust - I'll be slinking out to get the car while it happens.

If you don't know how to use an apostrophe, please, just ask anyone that works with you to proofread your menus or your signage. The person that says "I'll do it" is generally the person who should do it. I cringe every mother^#(*ing time I see your list of Burger's, or Sandwich's, or Special's, or Combination's, or Grill Item's, or Degustation's, or Prixe Fixe's, or Desert Creation's GAAAAAAH!

This happened to us just the other day - steaks ordered to a specific doneness, arrived on a hot plate covered with a lid, and lo-and-behold the steaks are much more done than we asked for. My guess is that they came off the grill at the right temp, but baked/steamed themselves on the way from the kitchen. Grr!

seebee wrote:If you don't know how to use an apostrophe, please, just ask anyone that works with you to proofread your menus or your signage. The person that says "I'll do it" is generally the person who should do it. I cringe every mother^#(*ing time I see your list of Burger's, or Sandwich's, or Special's, or Combination's, or Grill Item's, or Degustation's, or Prixe Fixe's, or Desert Creation's GAAAAAAH!

Love it.

Ram4 wrote:4 - Running out of food. The ol' "Prime Rib may not be available tonight." It happens. I tend to give them a break on it. Sometimes you get a run on one item and it runs out. But if it happens all the time? Make MORE!!!

I have a delightful variation on this one. I was at Kaufman's yesterday to buy bagels. It was 2 in the afternoon, so naturally they would not have the selection they would at 6am. I knew that and was fine with it. But I got this bullshit transaction:
Me: What bagels do you have left?
Guy: Oh, pretty much everything! Except whole wheat. ["Whole wheat" is not on the menu, so I proceed...]
Me: Well, I'll take three oat bran, three multigrain...
Guy: That's whole wheat.
Me: Okay, how about Pumpkin?
Guy: I've never seen any of the seasonal ones. [Which, according to the menu, also includes cherry, cranberry, and veggie.]
Me: What do you have left?
Guy: Plain, Onion, Blueberry.
Me: What are those dark ones in the back?
Guy: ONION!
Me: On the left.
Guy: Oh. Onion-Pumpernickel!

Please, please, don't say you have everything, which equals 20+, when you have a total of three. Don't get snippy because you're confusing and blatantly incorrect! I came for bagels, not attitude.

Pie Lady wrote:Please, please, don't say you have everything, which equals 20+, when you have a total of three. Don't get snippy because you're confusing and blatantly incorrect! I came for bagels, not attitude.

This is analogous to the answer to my question of servers: "What's good tonight?"

When they say "Everything" – which is exactly what they say better than 85% of the time – what they get in return is a glance that says, unequivocally, "F*ck you. No, really, I mean it."

Then I warm up for a nanosecond, smile, and try "Well, if you were having dinner here tonight, what would you have?" which gets the relationship back on track and goes some way toward ensuring my entree won't come with an unannounced side of sputum.

My wife and I have a fun, running conversation about how to best ask servers for information that both gets us some useful information and also doesn't put us in a potentially awkward situation of ignoring a recommendation. I like open-ended questions, like "Tell me about the....". This is especially important when asking about wine because you can pretty easily figure out whether the person doesn't have a clue, or really knows the wines well.

I just had an experience that I wish was more common.

With a clogged head, I went to a Thai place for some spicy food to help clear it.
The young waitress (daughter of the owner) asked what level of service I would like. I obviously looked confused and she went "I hover over you constantly bothering you, I show up every 8 minutes or so to see if you are needing anything, or I deliver the food and only acknowledge you when you raise your cup for a refill which will allow me to study for my exam tomorrow". I asked her to bring a pitcher of water so I wouldn't bother her studying. (She goes to the same HS as my son, and is in all AP classes).
I loved it. There are too many "hovering" service people when it is not required. A "pay per service level" of tipping would be great. BTW I did leave a really nice tip. I know how much the AP classes take out of my kid and I do not understand how she keeps up her grades. But I digress.

On the other hand, a "professional" server, something I haven't found in years, is awesome. There was a very "old school" place in Milwaukee, long since gone, that had waiters that had worked there for their lifetime. I was once there when an "apprentice" teenager lost it with his 60+ year old mentor. Yes, there was an apprenticeship to become a salaried server. The mentor was highly embarrassed, resolved the situation quickly (strong armed the kid into the serving area) and apologized to his tables with a round of drinks. I always enjoyed going there due to the service. Unobtrusive, always there watching tables to see if anything was needed, etc. The gentleman in question this night lowered his guard enough to tell me that he apprenticed at one of the better Hungarian establishments before coming to the U.S. as a teen. He had worked there for 40+ years.

A few more things:

When I order something that is deep fat fried (French fries, fried chicken, etc.), salt the food out of the fryer. In the Chicago area, I get unsalted french fries more often than not.

When I get carry-out - especially through the drive-thru, make sure that I get flatware or anything that I need to eat the food. Also, if I am dropping $8-12 for dinner, DON'T give me ONE napkin.

Music in a restaurant can complement the dining experience. However, many people would like to converse over dinner and you cannot do so when the music is blaring. Also, some thought ought to be given to the type of music played.

seebee wrote:If you don't know how to use an apostrophe, please, just ask anyone that works with you to proofread your menus or your signage. The person that says "I'll do it" is generally the person who should do it. I cringe every mother^#(*ing time I see your list of Burger's, or Sandwich's, or Special's, or Combination's, or Grill Item's, or Degustation's, or Prixe Fixe's, or Desert Creation's GAAAAAAH!

While you're at it, an apostrophe curls with the opening to the left. Do not let your stupid "smart quotes" software substitute an opening single quote instead. If you have "mac 'n' cheese" on your menu, both apostrophes should curl to the left. If you can't figure out how to do that, turn off smart quotes and use straight up and down marks, spell out "and" or use an ampersand.