David Hammond wrote:If we want to just shake hands and say De Gustibus, that's fine with me, but I'm trying to understand how someone who knows good Hispanic food can give this place the nod.



Hammond

Now, I can say that 'bout you and a certain Chinese place, no? Why do we all have to like the same places?

I would also offer that I look at Pollo Campero as fast food fried chicken mostly. It is a restaurant from Central America, but it is not like fried chicken is a uniquely Central American food.

Vital Information wrote:Now, I can say that 'bout you and a certain Chinese place, no? Why do we all have to like the same places?

I would also offer that I look at Pollo Campero as fast food fried chicken mostly. It is a restaurant from Central America, but it is not like fried chicken is a uniquely Central American food.

Of course we don't all have to like the same places. I'm just trying to understand why you like this place. There is a point where taste takes over, but in forums like this, we articulate our choices and don't just fall back on the me like/me no like, right?

PC is fast food. In that sense, it is not fair to compare it to food that is made by human beings. I think the PC salsa is just fine, but it is no where near as good as what you find on the tables of La Oaxaquena, Quebrada, Cimbombo, etc. To compare the PC to places like that is unfair. They spin in different universes.

PC is fast food. It's fuel, designed to go down easy with minimal disruption of the taste buds, soon forgotten and (the best one can hope) quickly digested and gone.

PC is fast food. To quote Hannibal Lector, "It's not even food, as I understand the definition."

Hammond

David Hammond wrote:PC is fast food. In that sense, it is not fair to compare it to food that is made by human beings. I think the PC salsa is just fine, but it is no where near as good as what you find on the tables of La Oaxaquena, Quebrada, Cimbombo, etc. To compare the PC to places like that is unfair. They spin in different universes.

I agree, but is anyone really comparing PC to those places? Most comparisons in this thead seem to be more towards Popeyes/KFC.

LionRock wrote:

David Hammond wrote:PC is fast food. In that sense, it is not fair to compare it to food that is made by human beings. I think the PC salsa is just fine, but it is no where near as good as what you find on the tables of La Oaxaquena, Quebrada, Cimbombo, etc. To compare the PC to places like that is unfair. They spin in different universes.

I agree, but is anyone really comparing PC to those places? Most comparisons in this thead seem to be more towards Popeyes/KFC.

Lionrock,

I'm trying to work out in my own mind what's fair to compare.

Over lunch with the illustrious stevez and imperious GWiv, I asked, "When evaluating ribs, do you compare the ribs to others in their region, across regions, or against some paradigm of perfection that only two or three places can ever hope to achieve?"

Both stevez and GWiv said almost simultaneously, "the paradigm of perfection."

Measurement against an abstract Platonic ideal is certainly one way to evaluate the quality of a place and its food, but I'm not sure it's fair, and if we're only comparing PC to KFC, etc., then we're talking about such fine levels of distinction between gross foods that VI may be right because I'm not sure it's even worth discussing (though I realize I've spent a lot of words this morning doing so).

What's better: Pizza Hut or Dominoes? Skittles Regular or Tropical Style? Burger King or McDonalds...wait, I think you can compare those two.

Hammond

"How is it possible to suspend topaz in one cup of the balance and weigh it against amethyst in the other; or who in a single language can compare the tranquillizing grace of a maiden with the invigorating pleasure of witnessing a well-contested rat-fight?"
--From Kai Lung's Golden Hours by Ernest Bramah

PC succeeds in US markets for the same reason that I scour Chicago for good soul food each weekend. It's the same reason that American expats in Moscow go to McDonalds, a place they'd never go out of their way back home.

Food is often the vehicle around which most of our fondest memories of social development took place. For those from central America, particularly Guatemala, it's simply a tatse of home and a reminder of those loved ones left behind there.

YourPalWill wrote:Food is often the vehicle around which most of our fondest memories of social development took place. For those from central America, particularly Guatemala, it's simply a tatse of home and a reminder of those loved ones left behind there.

Hey Will,

See, that's what I find hard to believe. On the interior wall of PC is a mural of Tikal with parrots and stuff and the words "Nuestra tierra. Nuestra gente. Nuestro orgullo." I saw that and thought "Whaaa?" I find it extremely difficult to believe that this food reflects the land, people and taste of Guatemala...but it's also very possible that I don't know what the hell Guatemalan folks really like.

All I can say is this: I admire Hispanic food in all its diversity, and if you put this PC food on the table without any indication of its place of origin, I'd have a tough time placing it on the globe. Mashed potatoes and gravy? French fries and fried chicken? A salad with broiled chicken on top and Ranch dressing? Is that really what they eat in MesoAmerica? Maybe so, but if they do, that's a sad damn reality and a statement about the homogeniety that globalization brings.

Hammond

Hammond

My undersatnding (I think I read it in the Sun Times article) is that the local franchisee opted for a Americanized menu of sides.

YourPalWill wrote:My undersatnding (I think I read it in the Sun Times article) is that the local franchisee opted for a Americanized menu of sides.

Will, I had checked their site, and one of their strengths is that they change the menu by location, but my sense that it was more to "tropicalize" (their term) menu items to fit a more Hispanic taste.

Still, if it's "Americanized," then it's not really like home, is it?

Hammond

But what really would be a restaurant the reflected the local tastes of Guatemala? Let's turn it around and look at the U.S. and this board. Restaurants that serve what I would classify as purely American foods barely ever get mentioned here. We talk about Italian, we talk about Mexican, we talk about German and Persian and Indian and everything else. But talk about purely American restaurants is seldom found here.

And very few of the ethnic places that do get talked about serve food that is is true to their country of origin. Someone from China would barely recognize what we call Chinese food. The same with most Italian restaurants.

And let's not forget that you can go to almost any foreign country and find McDonalds and KFC all over the place. Heck I saw a Pizza Hut in Beijing. But all of them have some changes that reflect the local region.

And finally let me add that not all Hispanic food resembles Mexican. My step-mother is from Columbia. The first time she came to dinner at my house I made tacos. She wouldn't eat them because it was too spicy for her tastes. I've never even seen her serve anything with tortillas, beans or anything spicy at all.

Sorry if this post is too off-topic.

Erik M. wrote:

mby385 wrote:Now bring on Pollo Loco!

Good News.

While running an errand this afternoon, I noticed that an El Pollo Loco is opening on the corner of Sawyer and Milwaukee, in Logan Square.

Now, I wait for Jollibee to come to town.

E.M.

If a Jollibee's comes here I would be in shock. There are 10 or so in California, but they have the demographic to support it. In Chicago (and the metro area as well), the Filipino population is growing but I don't think it would ever be enough to open a Jolibee. I haven't been to a Jollibee yet as the people we end up visiting gravitate towards In-and-Out
and dim sum joints. Who knows anything can happen, there's a Mitsuwa here.

Sorry, Hammond, I actually got it completely backwards. This is from the July 29 Sun Times article:

"While Campero diners in Latin America typically eat their chicken with more American side dishes like french fries and mashed potatoes, Campero outlets in the United States will take on more of a Latino flair, with sides such as pinto beans cooked with bacon and fried plantain chips, Florsheim said. Drinks will include horchata and maranon, a drink made from the fruit of the cashew tree."

YourPalWill wrote:Sorry, Hammond, I actually got it completely backwards. This is from the July 29 Sun Times article:

"While Campero diners in Latin America typically eat their chicken with more American side dishes like french fries and mashed potatoes, Campero outlets in the United States will take on more of a Latino flair, with sides such as pinto beans cooked with bacon and fried plantain chips, Florsheim said. Drinks will include horchata and maranon, a drink made from the fruit of the cashew tree."

That's kind of funny, isn't it? Latin Americans are looking more for sabor Americano, and we Americans tend to look more for the "tropicalized" versions. My feeling, though, is that both versions are, to state it somewhat more strongly than may be deserved, bastardizations. But, hell, if people like it, god bless 'em, it just ain't for me.

However, this seems to militate against your opinion that immigrants go to PC to get a "taste of home" because what it seems Latin Americans are seeking is a taste of the American-flavored meal (with mashed potatoes, etc.) that they had back home. This is a conundrum, wrapped in a riddle, breaded, and deep fried.

Hammond

David Hammond wrote:I find it extremely difficult to believe that this food reflects the land, people and taste of Guatemala...but it's also very possible that I don't know what the hell Guatemalan folks really like.

I don't know if this means anything or not, but when I was visiting Guatamala, the Pollo Campero outposts were just as busy if not more busy than the Chicago location. And while I don't think that PC reflects a Guatamalan tradition--I do think it reflects modern tastes--just as McDonalds reflects modern American tastes.

I think that it also may be driven by the intense pride of the many immigrants we have here from Central America. PC is a success story there and they want very much for it to be a success story here. In a way, PC's success is symbolic statement that many immigrants to the United States seek for themselves. PC's success is another benchmark in establishing their culture here.

YourPalWill wrote:I think that it also may be driven by the intense pride of the many immigrants we have here from Central America. PC is a success story there and they want very much for it to be a success story here. In a way, PC's success is symbolic statement that many immigrants to the United States seek for themselves. PC's success is another benchmark in establishing their culture here.

or it could be that they like the chicken AND the place is easy for them, language wise.

We picked up a bunch to eat in front of the TV the other day--emmy's. At 6 or so on a Sunday night, they were out of all side dishes but the PC cole slaw and fries. All I can say is I liked the chicken, hated the Emmy's broadcast.

YourPalWill wrote: At 6 or so on a Sunday night, they were out of all side dishes but the PC cole slaw and fries. All I can say is I liked the chicken, hated the Emmy's broadcast.

When I was there (about 7:00 on a Wednesday), they were out of plantains, famous beans, etc. They also got two items on my order wrong. My feeling is that it is a challenge managing their immense success.

Hammond

Re: El Pollo Loco's first Chicago shop, on Milwaukee Avenue, in Logan Square.

I have been told that it is slated to open on October 10th.

E.M.

David Hammond wrote:

YourPalWill wrote:Sorry, Hammond, I actually got it completely backwards. This is from the July 29 Sun Times article:

"While Campero diners in Latin America typically eat their chicken with more American side dishes like french fries and mashed potatoes, Campero outlets in the United States will take on more of a Latino flair, with sides such as pinto beans cooked with bacon and fried plantain chips, Florsheim said. Drinks will include horchata and maranon, a drink made from the fruit of the cashew tree."

That's kind of funny, isn't it? Latin Americans are looking more for sabor Americano, and we Americans tend to look more for the "tropicalized" versions. My feeling, though, is that both versions are, to state it somewhat more strongly than may be deserved, bastardizations. But, hell, if people like it, god bless 'em, it just ain't for me.

However, this seems to militate against your opinion that immigrants go to PC to get a "taste of home" because what it seems Latin Americans are seeking is a taste of the American-flavored meal (with mashed potatoes, etc.) that they had back home. This is a conundrum, wrapped in a riddle, breaded, and deep fried.

Hammond

I really dont think its that strange, myself - and it is something that is replicated
in a few other cases as well.

Take "Hot Breads" for example - a chain in Madras (Chennai) India, very popular,
has outlets all over the place (somewhat similar to a chain called Croissants
in Bombay, India). I know more about Crossiants than Hot Breads, but theyre
similar. Nice places, kids in college especially love to hang out there. Carry
croissants, breads, sandwiches, cakes - and with an Indian twist. Hot Breads
most popular thing is the "chilli chicken croissant" for example, and theyll
have chana-masala croissants etc. Plus they do a few Indian things too, but
really not very many. They play pop and rock music mostly, a sort of
Americanized ambience in India (with murals of pop stars etc - in the late
80s they used to play Springsteen, Madonna etc most of the time).

Now Hot Breads has gone international - has several branches in the US
too. One is now in Schaumburg - very popular, especially among Indians
here from Madras (and there are quite a few South Indians in the Western
burbs, the greatest populatiion concentration is in that area, so its a great
location for their first Chicagoland branch). They also have other branches
in VA, California, NY etc.

Hot Breads, in its international move, still has similar foods - chilli chicken
croissant, Indian bread etc. But it has a few more Indian dishes I
think (more samosa, chaat stuff etc than its Indian branches do - they hardly
carry those in India). It also does *not* play American pop and rock
music in stores here... instead it plays Indian pop and rock here (which it
does not usually do in India Hot Breads owner, in an interview, said
that their strategy was fairly simple - in India they were that kind of food
(with a few more "American" items, cakes etc), and a sort of "ambiance
of America" thrown in. In the US the food is similar but iwth fewer cakes,
more chaat... and a "ambience of home" thrown in. And its been successful
with that strategy in both places. (Like Pollo campero, however, the
major food items stay the same -its the little stuff, the sides, the samosas,
and primarily the ambience that is altered)

And this, of course, makes some sense aimed at immigrants.. but even more
when aimed at their kids. Many of whom are raised in America, and dont
care too much for authentic home-cooking at times - or, at least, are very
keen to have more American-style stuff. This is especially the case among
Muslims for example - many of whom wont eat "non-Halal" (ie non-kosher)
meat, and thus dont get to really sample the burgers, fried chicken etc. This
is why Middle-Eastern places on Kedzie, while serving authentic hummus
and kibbeh, also serve "burgers and fries" - which are incredibly popular
among immigrants (even if theyre never consumed by the American
customers Or why HFC (Halal Fried Chicken) on Devon does such
good business.

(BTW, talking of that... Usmaniya on Devon has taken over the management
of a "Browns Chicken and Pasta" spot, on Crawford and Oakton IIRC, in
Skokie. Three-quarters of the menu is now halal - the fried chicken etc is,
the Italian beef and sausage sandwiches are not. This happened 3 or 4
weeks ago IIRC - and the place has been doing *roaring* business ever
since, it seems packed pretty much every time you pass by despite
being mostly a carryout spot. This is because pretty much every
practicing Muslim in the near and not-so-near vicinity has been driving up
on occasion to pick up some fried chicken he can actually eat.Heck,
a Muslim I nkow who was down from Madras a week ago insisted on
picking some up too - was extolling the virtues of food in the Middle East,
where they could actually eat at KFC, Mcdonalds etc with regularity
since even those places carried Halal meat


c8w

c8w wrote:And this, of course, makes some sense aimed at immigrants.. but even morewhen aimed at their kids. Many of whom are raised in America, and dont care too much for authentic home-cooking at times - or, at least, are verykeen to have more American-style stuff.

That helps explain why a bland and mediocre place like PC can survive. It's the kids, of course! They eat homogenized pablum at school, buy into the tasteless crap advertised on television, and then coerce their parental units into taking them to a fast food joint that pays lip service to the homeland while still providing virtually the same thing as you'd get at Burger King (okay, with some "tropicalized" variations). I think you have hit upon the reason this place exists. Thank you -- reallyl, I mean it. That helps.

Hammond

David Hammond wrote:
That helps explain why a bland and mediocre place like PC can survive. It's the kids, of course!
Hammond

Won't give up...

But as to the theme expressed above, what about Starbucks? And there are now Starbucks in France, and soon, god forbid I imagine Italy (if they are not already there). So, let's not feel all so smug in th USA.

Rob

Vital Information wrote:

David Hammond wrote:
That helps explain why a bland and mediocre place like PC can survive. It's the kids, of course!
Hammond

Won't give up...

Apologies if I came on strong regarding PC.

Had just gotten back from the Green Mill, where Bobby Brown was supposed to be playing, but he wasn't, so his understudy was there -- boring.

Then some boy clown got on stage and asked some girl clown to marry him, right there in front of all of us strangers -- unnerving.

On the way home, stopped at Traspasada on Ashland for a torta ahogada -- disappointing.

So I was in a bad mood...and my attitude about all food is, if you like it, eat it.

Shutting up about PC now,

Hammond

Erik M. wrote:Re: El Pollo Loco's first Chicago shop, on Milwaukee Avenue, in Logan Square.

I have been told that it is slated to open on October 10th.

E.M.

The opening date has now been pushed back to the 20th.

E.M.

Erik M. wrote:

Erik M. wrote:Re: El Pollo Loco's first Chicago shop, on Milwaukee Avenue, in Logan Square.

I have been told that it is slated to open on October 10th.

E.M.

The opening date has now been pushed back to the 20th.

E.M.

I passed it on the way to the Roller Derby Sunday, and you could see the managers inside being trained. I can't wait for this to open since I used to eat at Pollo Loco all the time when I lived in Los Angeles.

Vital Information wrote:
But as to the theme expressed above, what about Starbucks? And there are now Starbucks in France, and soon, god forbid I imagine Italy (if they are not already there). So, let's not feel all so smug in th USA.

Don't know about Italy, but there are Starbucks every few blocks in the bigger Spanish cities (Seville, Madrid, BCN...). Not quite as many as here, but enough. I only saw one person carry out, though (it was one of those frozen milk-shake-type things). Even at highway rest stops they just don't do carry-out coffee.

I personally don't care for Pollo Loco, where I ate far too many times than I'd like to remember when stuck in "downtown" LA some years back for work. I'd place it below Yoshinoya Beef Bowl and above Wienerschnitzel on the JeffB scale of SoCal fast food exotica. For a point of reference, Yoshinoya's disconcertingly satisfying soy-sauce and water on mushy rice with Alpo-beef can't see a double-double with an upward-pointing telescope.

But the day Chicago makes this place a success is the day LTH needs to lock the door and walk away.

http://www.kookooroo.com/

Nor do I understand the fascination with El Pollo Loco. A few years back, the folks who run Hardees, the hiney hole of fast food establishments, invested a load in El Pollo Locs in the southeast.

I tried to like it. But, at the end of the day, it did nothing for me.

Erik M. wrote:

Erik M. wrote:Re: El Pollo Loco's first Chicago shop, on Milwaukee Avenue, in Logan Square.

I have been told that it is slated to open on October 10th.

E.M.

The opening date has now been pushed back to the 20th.

E.M.

I went yesterday (10/11) and they were open and crowded. But nowhere near as crowded as PC when they opened.

city wrote:I went yesterday (10/11) and they were open and crowded. But nowhere near as crowded as PC when they opened.

Perhaps what you are observing is the soft opening. The other date may be the official grand opening.

Regards,

JeffB wrote:I'd place it below Yoshinoya Beef Bowl and above Wienerschnitzel on the JeffB scale of SoCal fast food exotica. For a point of reference, Yoshinoya's disconcertingly satisfying soy-sauce and water on mushy rice with Alpo-beef can't see a double-double with an upward-pointing telescope.

http://www.kookooroo.com/

lol @ kookooroo.. i've NEVER dined there yet know ppl obsessed w/ kkr, ie, eat it everyday for lunch...

* i wonder why Erik has such a fascination with El Pollo Loco's opening date...

* Jollibee can just stay in LA and .ph as AFAIC. that stuff is.. straight up inedible.

* Yoshinoya is possibly the best fast food period. I considered it a 'treat' during M-F. Combo bowl w/ "SAUCE ON THE SIDE" please. certain yoshis make the rice not too mushy and that food-coloring infused vegetable... tastes so bad yet right ... far superior to say.. Panda Express...

you forgot: Jack In the Box (tho now operating in IL) and the perpetually favored In-in-Our

[edit]so tonite, the SO called and wanted fast food chicken: El Pollo Loco won and our stomachs lost.

EPL/CHI was a complete let down. the chicken pieces were significantly smaller than what we're used to. the skin was extra crisp, but the flesh extra dry. the meat, when removed from the bone and into the tortilla emitted an odor reminiscent of Cody's Costco dogfood.

salsa wasn't as spicy, tortillas weren't warm nor soft nor rolled in alumi foil like they usually are. nails on the coffin: prices were higher than the west coast AND there's no parking.[/edit]