Americanized Chinese Food

Hi,

Early this summer, Stirring Things Up in conjuction with the Chinese American Museum had a lecture on American Passion for Non-Chinese Chinese Food.

LTHer jbw attended the lecture and provided an account describing:

Chop Suey: a fairly simple dish, meaning "bits and pieces" composed of meat/fish, cabbage, bean sprouts, water chestnuts, and other ingredients familiar to the Chinese (with the exception of celery) bound together in a sauce, often consisting of soy sauce and molasses

Chow Mein: the above over crunchy, brown noodles.

Sweet and sour pork: unknown to the Chinese who tend not to mix these flavors. The heavy use of molasses might account for its popularity among Americans.

Egg rolls: a variant of the well-known Spring Roll, but this deep-fried version, full of cabbage to save money, seems to be an American innovation. Ms Moy informed us that peanut butter is often a secret ingredient. The derivation of the accompanying duck sauce (and its name) remains a mystery.

Fried rice: A concoction known to most Chinese households as a quick and inexpensive way to deal with leftovers.

Egg foo-yung: The Chinese are fond of egg dishes but not served in this way -- fried inside a ladle immersed in hot oil to preserve its shape, and accompanied with a brown sauce.

Are there not some other Americanized Chinese classics not mentioned? I remember Almond Duck otherwise known as Pressed Duck as an old standard which seemingly have disappeered from menus. Does rumaki count? Fortune cookies?

Here's my question: who makes the best version of these dishes? While I am especially interested in Chinatown restaurants, I think any sources anywhere in the Chicago area will be of interest.

I wonder if Chinatown Cafe might be a worthy candidate for any or all of these fading classics.

According to my wife who's Chinese, very few dishes at at your typical take-out place are prepared the way she's used to. BTW Chin's in D'town Arl Hts serves a killer Almond Pressed Duck.

Grant,

Thanks on the lead for the Almond Duck, you don't know how much interest you raised on that comment.

According to my wife who's Chinese, very few dishes at at your typical take-out place are prepared the way she's used to.

I'm not surprised by your wife's comments. I was out earlier this week to a function with a carload of food-oriented people. The conversation drifted into eating Chinese in different countries. For instance, if the menu advises it is spicey, the Hungarian variant will overpower you and the Italian variant will be barely noticeable. There are even a few restaurants in our area who specialize in Indian Style Chinese Cuisine. I guess while we go to great efforts to find authentic, there are still subtle differences to accomodate tastes and/or locally available ingredients.

Thanks again!

Either Americanized chinese has spread throughout the world, or the background of some of those dishes is not just American.

In Paris, a chinese menu listed "Ouef foo yong" which gave me a serious laugh.

There's also the famous line from Warren Zevon's "Werewolves of London"

Saw a werewolf with a Chinese menu in his hand
Walking through the streets of Soho in the rain
He was looking for a place called Lee Ho Fook's
Gonna get a big dish of Beef Chow Mein

I was in London some years ago, there is a Lee Ho Fook's in Soho, and they do indeed have chow mein.

The Chinese have been in Mexico for a long time, and there are many Chinese restaurants scattered about the country. When I lived in Mexico City what I saw offered in those restaurants isn't all that different than what we see in "Americanized" Chinese restaurants in Chicago. Although, we don't see chicken enchiladas sharing the menu with chop suey, something that is commonplace in much of Mexico.

Hi,

AS much as I appreciate the digression, do keep in mind I am looking for sources of these foods, which one might suggest are, "So bad, they're good!" especially in Chinatown.

REgards,

Don't know of any in Chinatown, at least since Chiam ("Chinese-American," or "Chaim," as my Jewish uncle called it) closed. Still for me, the prototype non-Chinese Chinese restaurant is and will always be Kow Kow. Although they moved some years ago, their food is unchanged from the first time I tasted it in 1958.

Regarding the "so bad, they're good" concept, you may not respect the style of cooking but, if it's well prepared with fresh, high-quality ingredients, there's no bad or good. It's just personal taste.

BTW, I'd like to try Chinatown Cafe, too. A friend who lives in Chinatown recommended it.

Kow Kow Restaurant
6755 N Cicero
Lincolnwood
847-677-7717

Chinatown Cafe
2604 S Wentworth Ave
Chicago
312-791-0366

Bill wrote:Although, we don't see chicken enchiladas sharing the menu with chop suey, something that is commonplace in much of Mexico.

actually, if you look hard enough (well, not THAT hard), you'll find Chinese-Mexican restaurants in LA, and even in NYC i.e. there's one in Flushing, NY, on Kissena, north of Main St. that serves(served?) tacos and chinese fast food

I have recently uncovered a gem of a place offering what I call Jewish American Chineese cooking. China Chef has been open in Morton Grove since the '70s and serves every stereotypical American Chineese dish (including some excellent pressed duck two different ways) and does a very good job of all of it. They also have a selection of Filipino dishes. I've been holding off posting about this place until I have been able to get deeper into the menu and have a complete write up, but in the meantime you may want to check it out.

China Chef
5920 Lincoln Ave
Morton Grove, IL
847-967-6050

China Chef is an interesting outpost of the Schaumburg-Jewish-Chinese style. [How's THAT for hyphenated Chinese ?] I haven't been recently, but remember it for fresh, consistently well-prepared ingredients. After several people spoke of their fondness for Kow Kow in Linconwood, I tried dinner there one night and was disappointed; the vaunted eggrolls were soggy and tasteless, and the chicken entree I ordered had some of the most poorly trimmed chicken I've eaten since I went to college and my friends and I were learning to cook*.

The point [and I do have one] is that China Chef is probably the best Chinese restaurant in my experience in the near NW suburban area. [Can I damn with weaker praise? ] There's one item on the menu that I was both attracted to and repulsed by. I believe it went by the name of pressed duck, but seemed to be deep-fried duck sliver sticks in vegetable sauce. The meat portion of the dish was kind of like fish sticks, but with duck instead of fish and no breading. Slivers of dark duck meat pressed into a square slab and then sliced into 1" X 3" sticks. It appeared that they were deep-fried & then covered in a veggie-mushroom sauce. Despite what I think were their industrial origins [certainly I have yet to notice any recipe like this in the Chinese part of my cookbook collection], they had a certain tasty, rich, duckiness to them. [Not as nice as anything at D. "The Hat" H.'s house, but we can't all be that lucky....]

And are there a lot of Jewish people in Schaumburg?

Giovanna

*Just as a paranoid aside, I wonder if my less-than-delightful experiences with restaurants others like comes from eating solo and female? I tip well, I say please and thank you, but still I'm not considered a desirable eating demographic....

Giovanna,

Why don't you start a thread on Not ABout Food on your little paranoia issue. I have a few words on the subject myself.

Regards,

Giovanna wrote: There's one item on the menu that I was both attracted to and repulsed by. I believe it went by the name of pressed duck, but seemed to be deep-fried duck sliver sticks in vegetable sauce. The meat portion of the dish was kind of like fish sticks, but with duck instead of fish and no breading. Slivers of dark duck meat pressed into a square slab and then sliced into 1" X 3" sticks. It appeared that they were deep-fried & then covered in a veggie-mushroom sauce. Despite what I think were their industrial origins [certainly I have yet to notice any recipe like this in the Chinese part of my cookbook collection], they had a certain tasty, rich, duckiness to them. [Not as nice as anything at D. "The Hat" H.'s house, but we can't all be that lucky....]

The dish you have described is indeed pressed duck. China Chef serves it in two different preparations, neither one of which is exactlyu the traditional way of serving the duck over steamed lettuce. I'm still deciding the merits of both preparatons. I hope to make a lengthy post soon.

Chin's in Arl Hts serves it over lettuce, with a brown gravy with mushrooms, water chestnuts??? and scallions. Not sure if chestnut is PC anymore. It is good, but i found it to be better this morning.

I still believe that the lack of good American-Chinese restaurants is the semi-recent banishment of MSG. 20 years ago it was easy to walk into almost storefront dump and get great food. Now we have to search high and low to find something almost edible.

I work with 2 kids that are American born Chinese. One kids' parents once ran a Chinese restaurant. When I joked with him about this he said I should come to his parents' house, they still have about a 5 pound sack of the stuff. The other kids says that his mother uses a big spoonful of the stuff in almost every dish she cooks.

I know MSG is bad for you. But I still think it's the missing ingredient that just makes every place we try seem like it's lacking something.

BTW, one of the kids did tell me that some places do still use MSG even though they advertise that they don't. He said you can tell because when you get done eating you're really thirsty. I'll have to be on the lookout for that.

You can procur MSG thru the Spice House. I bought an oz. bag for curiosity's sake. Of course some people have allergic reactions to MSG(some people are allergic to air). MSG's demonization is part n parcel of pop-cult xenophobia and general ignorance. I imagine as the concept of umami takes further hold on the American culinary landscape MSG will return from it's unjust ostracization.

Actually you can still buy it in the spice section of any grocery store. Just look for Accent. But it has to be cooked into the food, you can't just use it like salt.

Taken str8 from the bag it conjures(at least to my tongue) a definite meatiness.

Yep, I've got a jar of Ac'cent in my spice cupboard(s). Very cheap. I usually forget to use it, though.

You can buy it in bulk at the home economist also.

Until recently, my wife worked for Asian Foods, a division of Sysco. They supply everything from chicken feet to chopsticks. Almost every Asian restaurant that you know of is supplied by Sysco in some way, resulting in a Sam's Club kind of genericism.

Would this qualify as Americanized Chinese (or is it China-fied American)?

Stir-fried Cocktail Weenies

I came across this dish at Buffet City, a huge Chinese feeding hall in the West Lawn neighborhood that caters to a Hispanic and African-American clientele. Buffet City is an exceedingly interesting place although most of the food is awful. In addition to row after row of steam tables (mostly Chinese-American classics) and salad bar (mostly standard American) they offer a sushi bar, pizza, and a build-your-own taco station.

Buffet City
7010 S Pulaski Rd
Chicago
773-838-1368

Rene G,

Your photo would make my old best friend Cathy so very pleased. Back in the early 80's when she was setting up household, she received a wok as a housewarming gift. She made all kinds of interesting dishes, but one she told me about and never let me try was her version of "Wok Dog." Where she cooked hot dogs with vegetables for solitary dinners when she had no reason to impress anyone but herself.

Thanks for the lovely picture!

Regards,
Cathy

Cathy2 wrote:I wonder if Chinatown Cafe might be a worthy candidate for any or all of these fading classics.

I posted scans of Chinatown Café’s menu in another thread. Although there’s no pressed duck, the menu is clearly rooted in a different era.

If memory serves, this dish is straight out of the pages of an early 60's Ladies Home Journal. I can almost smell the sterno on the buffet table.

Rene G wrote:Would this qualify as Americanized Chinese (or is it China-fied American)?

Stir-fried Cocktail Weenies

Rene G,

This reminds me of a something I had 3-4 years ago at China Buffet (Addison/Elston), halved institutional quality hot dogs wrapped in egg roll skins and deep fried. Do I hear a double-yum?

I was only there once, and that was more than enough, though I'm tempted to go back if only to take a picture of the wrapped deep-fried hot dog.

I will admit to an occasional, as once or twice a year, at most, foray to Hong Kong Buffet on McCormick, between Lincoln and Devon, but that's mainly based on the fact they have a pretty decent chili oil.

Humorously, to me at least, they keep the chili oil in the same type of container, and along with, the salad dressing. I'd like to be there when, and I'm sure it happens on occasion, the unsuspecting get a big bite of chili oil thinking it's Italian or oil and vinegar.


Enjoy,
Gary

HI,

This is one of those friend-of-a-friend situation, where they hope I might have the answer. I don't, though I am certain someone here does:

On a serious note, do you know anyone who can answer some Chinese food questions for me. I was raised on Cantonese restaurants in Jewish neighborhoods. I am tryin to determine the elements of that food so I can order it in Chinese restaurants (my favorite neighborhood one closed).

I think one element that I like is the absence of Ginger.

In find in Chinese-chinese restaurants, the Chicken in chowmein comes in some sort of wet mushy coating, which is NOT the way I like it. I need to be able to tell the waiter what to delete to get the style of food I crave. Who can explain this to me?

What do you think? Can you recommend restaurants which may serve what he desires?

Thanks!

Regards,

I would probably suggest Kow Kow in Lincolnwood. They started out in West Rogers Park when it was at the height of it's Jewish population.

Christopher Gordon wrote:MSG's demonization is part n parcel of pop-cult xenophobia and general ignorance. I imagine as the concept of umami takes further hold on the American culinary landscape MSG will return from it's unjust ostracization.

Unjust ostracization indeed. Here's a link to a recent article on MSG and umami that may be of interest to some...

http://www.slate.com/id/2140999/

DY wrote:

Christopher Gordon wrote:MSG's demonization is part n parcel of pop-cult xenophobia and general ignorance. I imagine as the concept of umami takes further hold on the American culinary landscape MSG will return from it's unjust ostracization.

Unjust ostracization indeed. Here's a link to a recent article on MSG and umami that may be of interest to some...

http://www.slate.com/id/2140999/

Interesting article. The only Asian family I know that "used to" use MSG in their home-cooking was my Japanese in-laws. As touched on by the article, I know some of the "higher end" Chinese restaurants (primarily encountered in my experience in Hong Kong and Vancouver) will attempt to obtain "umami" from using stock made with scallops (dried or fresh), shrimp, lobster, crab or other expensive seafoods to, for example, cook their "steamed rice" which is later used to make fresh fried rice w/ other "fancy" seafood ingredients or to blanch greens. My mother typically used dried scallops, dried shitake, at times large dried shrimp to obtain "umami" for dishes - often vegetable/tofu dishes.

When I saw the title of this topic I though it was about the Chop Suey my Swedish Great Aunt (died at 107, bless her soul) used to make.

Some beef, cabbage, celery and soy. ... along with some BBQ ribs and the obligatory kroppkakor with butter.

Eclectic buffet to be sure. I miss my Aunt.

I am sure most of the meals discussed here is Cantonese food. Canton (Guangzhou as it locally known) being a major seaport would take some traditional Chinese dishes and tone them down or sideways for the international visitors.

It was quite a surprise when I opened my first regional Chinese cookbook and noticed most of my favorite 'Chinese' dishes missing.

Cathy2 wrote:

On a serious note, do you know anyone who can answer some Chinese food questions for me. I was raised on Cantonese restaurants in Jewish neighborhoods. I am tryin to determine the elements of that food so I can order it in Chinese restaurants (my favorite neighborhood one closed).

I think one element that I like is the absence of Ginger.

In find in Chinese-chinese restaurants, the Chicken in chowmein comes in some sort of wet mushy coating, which is NOT the way I like it. I need to be able to tell the waiter what to delete to get the style of food I crave. Who can explain this to me?

What do you think? Can you recommend restaurants which may serve what he desires?

Cathy,

If I understand this correctly, your friend is looking for a drier chow mein dish. He either wants to instruct a restaurant how to do this or to find a restaurant that does it normally. Correct?

Since I rarely order chow mein, but I can say that "Cantonese restauarants in Jewish neighborhoods" are plentiful across West Rogers Park, Lincolnwood, and Skokie. There are a couple small take-out joints along Oakton and/or Main in Skokie that might be spot-on. Has your friend poked around these neighborhood and come up short?

On a side note, midas' mention of Kow Kow reminded me to post about a recent meal there which hit the nail on the head for this style of Ameri-Chinese cooking. From the big, crispy egg roll to the hearty won ton soup to the spot-on pork fried rice to the medium-rare Hong Kong steak, I felt like we ate the "best in breed" of this style of restaurant.

I grew up on Kow Kow and it's currently a once-a-year spot for me although petit pois would prefer once a month. I have a feeling we'll be back sooner rather than later.

Hong Kong Steak at Kow Kow


Best,
Michael