How to grill fish, really, how?

Black Sea Bass at Boston Fish Market (Ronnie Suburban)

Long time ago, when I was in Yugoslavia (now Croatia). I would visit a restaurant off the main square in Zagreb named Dubrovnik. There was always a display of fresh fish with a little tag indicating price per kilo. You would pick your fish, then sit down to a salad while your fish was cooked over a wood fire. They would dress it with fresh lemon juice, olive oil and perhaps some herbs.

What I see coming from Boston Fish Market is akin to what I experienced and liked. I can't wait to finally try theirs.

I would like to know any pointers to cook whole fish in a similar style at home. If someone could offer some pointers, I'd appreciate it.

Regards,

1. You need fresh whole fish and that is rare in the Midwest, all I see is cloudy eyes, dull skin and dull gills. Seriously, I haven't found a decent whole fish in the Midwest in years, I have mine flown in.
2. It's about the wood, herbs and oil. We use hickory chunks, a good olive oil and whatever herbs seem right for the particular fish, kosher salt, black freshly ground pepper.
Other wise its simple, you can use a fish basket if the fish is small to avoid sticking and easy turning but oil the basket or place the fish right on a oiled grill and then it's tight rope walk as to under or over done. Sometimes I make an aluminum foil surface and slash through the grates but you aways have some parts that stick which is just the nature of the cooking.-Dick

I love roasted/grilled whole fish. The procedure and preparation you describe is similar to Elias Corner in Queens.

You can get excellent whole fish at Dirk's on Clybourn. They get all of their fish whole, or nearly all of it, and there is a large selection. Other good places are Burhops (at the least the one on Sheridan; I don't have experience with the others), The Fish Guy on Elston, and Whole Foods (especially the North Avenue location).

My basic procedure is to stuff the cavity with herbs, make some slits in the skin, rub the outside with olive oil, salt, pepper, and sometimes Pernod. Grill it over direct heat for about 10/min per inch of thickness (measured at the thickest part of the fish). Turn part way through. It won't stick if (a) you have a really hot grill that is clean and lubricated a bit before you start, and (b) you let the first side cook enough; the fish will stick at first and then release. You can also grill it indirectly, if you prefer. Or cook it in a hot oven. Remove the herbs, douse with olive oil and/or lemon juice, and eat.

budrichard wrote:1. You need fresh whole fish and that is rare in the Midwest, all I see is cloudy eyes, dull skin and dull gills. Seriously, I haven't found a decent whole fish in the Midwest in years

I guess you've yet to visit Boston Seafood. The fish in Ronnie's picture, and many, many more if its cousins are pristinely fresh, clear eyed, and rosy gilled. Boston Seafood would be my source over any that have been recommended so far, as good as those recommendations are.

Cooking wise, simple is better. S&P, a splash of good olive oil, some garlic and herbs is all you need. Clean and oil your grill grates well and cook direct over a medium hot charcoal fire, accented with some olive or alder wood. Despite being a whole fish, it cooks quickly, so keep your eyes on the prize or else you will end up with an overcooked, dry fish. Finish with a drizzle of your very best olive oil and a sprinkling of fresh parsley or other herb. Fillet tableside and enjoy!

stevez wrote:I guess you've yet to visit Boston Seafood. The fish in Ronnie's picture, and many, many more if its cousins are pristinely fresh, clear eyed, and rosy gilled.

Pristinely fresh fish flesh, to say the least.

Cathy2 wrote:I would like to know any pointers to cook whole fish in a similar style at home. If someone could offer some pointers, I'd appreciate it.

Place oiled seasoned fish on clean oiled grate, med to med-hot fire. Do NOT poke, prod, move, futz and or annoy the fish for at least 7-minutes.
Using two spatulas slowly, carefully, check to see if fish is sticking. Taking your time, flip, no rush, no hurry.
Do not poke, prod, move, futz or annoy fish for at least 7-minutes. (Its a bit of a crap shoot to know when whole fish is done, the more often you cook whole fish, the easier it becomes)
When done use two spatulas to slowly, carefully, remove to platter.
Loosely cover with foil, let rest for a few minutes.
Filet, eat, enjoy.

Black Sea Bass from Boston Fish Market



Lost a bit of skin, but fish stayed nicely intact


Terrific flavor. I plate like a drunk dyslexic monkey



Grilled scallop Appetizer, also from Boston Fish Market

budrichard wrote:1. You need fresh whole fish and that is rare in the Midwest, all I see is cloudy eyes, dull skin and dull gills. Seriously, I haven't found a decent whole fish in the Midwest in years, I have mine flown in.

There's definitely some great fish here in the Chicago area. You just have to know where -- and what days -- to shop for it. But overall, I think that's true everywhere. I've spent plenty of time on both coasts and even in those venues, fish and seafood aren't always great. I've learned that it's naive to think that just because you're closer to an ocean, you're going to automatically get superior quality fish. In many large coastal cities, fish is shipped in or caught nearby and held for several days. But in the end, at least here in Chicago, it's better to go the store or market with the idea that you want to cook fish but if you cannot get anything you really like, you're ready and willing to cook something else.

G Wiv wrote:Place oiled seasoned fish on clean oiled grate

Yes. Recipes aside, this is the absolute key (nice shots, btw). Fish and grate must both be well-oiled. I cook fish on my Weber kettle all the time, using a 2-stage fire, on the indirect side. Place the fish near -- but not over -- the fire, close the lid and let it cook. In most cases, I don't even move it or flip it. If the skin is oiled properly, it'll crisp up nicely. Occasionally I will move the fish directly over the coals for 30 seconds or so at the end of the cooking (leaving the grill uncovered) to help crisp up the exterior but it's almost never necessary.

=R=

Just grilled 2 whole fish, both pristinely fresh, never frozen, both purchased in the midwest. Vermillion snapper from Panama, caught a few days before purchase, Costco on Damen/Clybourn. Ditto Lake Superior walleye from Meijer in Michigan. In additon, the walleye and bass jumping out of the lakes around here tend to be pretty fresh and bright-eyed. Nearly all the stuff at Elias in Astoria, Queens, noted up thread and all wonderful, comes from Agean farms, not the Hudson or Long Island. Quality is about logistics and price.

By the way, those snappers are almost always available at Costco these days. I've had great luck with them and they are quite a bargain.

I am very glad that you asked this, Cathy, because getting better at cooking fish and at grilling--and ideally, both at the same time--is something that I've been trying to make some progress in for quite a while.

A friend came over once with two whole red snappers, and together we prepped them and cooked them on the grill, and they were GREAT. I wish I could remember more now about how we did it. As for seasoning and spices sprinkled inside the cleaned whole fish, I remember that she added more hot spice than I would have, but they were still great.

I am curious to know more specifically what people mean when they say to season or fill with herbs. Which herbs, specifically? Thyme? Dill? Oregano? Does the choice depend on which type of fish? Say I'm going to buy a cleaned, whole, rainbow trout, for example. What else might you put inside? Cilantro? Parsley? Onion slices? Lemon slices? I welcome any good suggestions.

As for cooking on the grill, what do the experienced among us think of mostly cooking the fish on a piece of oiled aluminum foil or in an oiled aluminum foil pan, to avoid sticking, draining off excess fluid as necessary, and then maybe just putting the fish directly on the grill for the last minute or so?

I don't do fish often, since SueF is not fond of finfish. And when I grill it, I cheat: I'll put a layer of leeks, scallions, or fennel or dill fronds on the grill before I put the fish down. It flavors the fish and imparts some char flavor, while giving me something else to stick to the grill than my fish.

Katie wrote:As for cooking on the grill, what do the experienced among us think of mostly cooking the fish on a piece of oiled aluminum foil or in an oiled aluminum foil pan, to avoid sticking, draining off excess fluid as necessary, and then maybe just putting the fish directly on the grill for the last minute or so?

This seems like a completely unnecessary step, IMO; one that will yield a fish that's more poached/steamed than grilled. If you prefer that prep, best to skip the grilling entirely. As was posted above, just make sure your grates and fish are well oiled. If they are, your fish will not stick. What is it you envision avoiding or gaining by adding the foil?

As for herbs and seasonings, often it just has to do with what's growing best in my garden or what's best at the market. Beyond that, it really just comes down to personal preference. Try something out and see if you like it. It's no different than trying different condiments on a sandwich. If you buy quality fish and cook it properly, it'll be pretty hard to spoil the outcome via your seasoning choices.

=R=

I find that about 10 coats of oil from a oil soaked paper towel takes care of any sticking problem. And of course, a super clean grill surface.

I've never tried it on a whole fish, but the 8 second trick always results in non-sticking fillets, so it oughta work on skin-on whole fish.
Following everyone else's advice re: clean, medium hot, oiled grill, oiled & seasoned fish; lay the fish on the grill for eight seconds, lift it w/ tongs, and set it back in the exact same spot, then continue cooking as desired.
I'd be curious to hear if it works.

Michael Ruhlman's got a very informative piece at his blog about grilling whole fish:

Branzino (plural, branzini) may be the best. Why? Because of their bones. They’re high in cartilage, meaning that when the flesh gets hot, instead of overheating and drying out, it melts the cartilage so that the flesh stays succulent long after the fish has hit the right temperature. (The fish may be more universally known as European sea bass, but with all the different bass out there, I favor a distinctive name, so branzini it is. Ours were from Whole Foods, farm-raised to WF standards in Greece, and cost less than $9 each.)

Grilled Branzini

=R=

I cook alot of whole fish in Florida and use a rectangular grill basket from Sur Le Table. It makes it very easy to turn the fish without it falling apart and keeps the fish from sticking to the grill.

I've been grilling a lot of whole mackerel during this steamy heat wave. Joong Boo Korean Market just north of Belmont and Kimball has nice fatty mackerel which they will clean for free if you request it. I just salt them well and stuff the cavity with scallions and lemon zest. Three minutes per side over a charcoal, turn with tongs, then serve with lemon wedges.

One important trick to keeping them together on the grill is to tie them up with butcher's twine the way you'd tie a stuffed roast. This keeps them from falling apart and holds the stuffing in the belly.

JeffB wrote:Just grilled 2 whole fish, both pristinely fresh, never frozen, both purchased in the midwest. Vermillion snapper from Panama, caught a few days before purchase, Costco on Damen/Clybourn. Ditto Lake Superior walleye from Meijer in Michigan. In additon, the walleye and bass jumping out of the lakes around here tend to be pretty fresh and bright-eyed. Nearly all the stuff at Elias in Astoria, Queens, noted up thread and all wonderful, comes from Agean farms, not the Hudson or Long Island. Quality is about logistics and price.

To add to what Jeff said, one of the easiest ways to ensure really good, fresh fish around these parts is to use lake fish. There really is no fresher, and often what's in the stores was in the water just a few days prior. The only drawback to lake fish is that it's just softer in flesh than ocean fish. Still, the flavor can compensate.

2 weeks ago, I grilled a whole whitefish, rubbed with chermoula, from Fresh Farms. First, let me say that at $4/lb it was an absurd bargain. Second, to my surprise, the fish stayed succulent and tasty for several days after the grilling--a good thing as a whole whitefish can feed a lot.

Vital Information wrote:To add to what Jeff said, one of the easiest ways to ensure really good, fresh fish around these parts is to use lake fish... The only drawback to lake fish is that it's just softer in flesh than ocean fish.

Catfish is firmer, but has stronger flavors.
Tilapia falls into this category... but has no flavor at all.

inspired by this thread today...



forgot to oil the grill yet the fish did not stick!

mhill95149,

Was this rainbow trout perhaps from Costco? I've been considering buying some as my practice fish.

Regards,

When I grill salmon, I fill the cavity with fresh dill, lemon and tomato slices. I crush garlic by rubbing it with sea salt using the flat edge of a knife. I mix the garlic with olive oil and coat the fish with it. I add some freshly ground black pepper, but no extra salt is needed.I put coals on either side of the grill leaving the center of the grill, under the fish, open. This prevents flare ups with oily fish like salmon. It is probably not necessary with a less oily fish. I wrap the fish in coarse cheese cloth. The cloth has to be carefully removed before serving, but keeps the fish from disintegrating while cooking. I cook the fish on both sides until it separates easily with a fork.

Cathy2 wrote:mhill95149,

Was this rainbow trout perhaps from Costco? I've been considering buying some as my practice fish.

Regards,

I was inspired by this thread and saw farm raised trout at Costco in Minneapolis. I had to go for it. 4 fish for $11 - you can't beat that. Anyway, I did what others here did. I started a two stage fire in my WSM (I grill quite a bit on my WSM by putting coals on a second grate in the middle section with the water pan removed). I oiled the fish well, stuffed the cavity with parsley and lemon slices with a little salt and put them over the direct heat side of the fire. Left them there for about 4-5 minutes and flipped - no sticking on the first flip but had to use tongs and a spatula to make sure the stuffing didn't fall out. Another 4-5 minutes I flipped them back over with some sticking of the skin - maybe a splash of oil on the fish before the flip would have helped? Either way, the fish was done perfectly. The flesh flaked off the bone and we were able to remove the whole head / backbone / bones in one pull (after one filet was removed). I'll be doing this again.

Cathy2 wrote:mhill95149,

Was this rainbow trout perhaps from Costco? I've been considering buying some as my practice fish.

Regards,

Nah, fish from Mariano's in Palatine I only needed one fish...

There's a video of Eric Ripert grilling fish on a piece of slate online. You can just buy a piece of slate from Home Depot for less than a two dollars after tax. It's really cheap, but you may need to check the slate for any cracks as that may expand and fracture when the slate is heated up. I've also made this once when the power was out and I couldn't temper the slate, and it started popping and shattering on the grill!

What I do is to place the slate on a baking sheet (for ease moving it around and in case parts break off) in a cold oven. Turn the oven on to 425 and let the slate heat up along with the oven. Once it has reached that temperature, I leave it in there for at least 10 minutes before moving the slate to the grill. Then when the slate is on the grill, I oil some paper towels and oil the surface liberally before grilling fish directly on the slate. The best part is that if you put fresh herbs on it, it won't burn or fall off so easily!

Moving a very hot slab of slate from my indoor oven to my outdoor grill doesn't sound very easy or convenient. What do you think of the alternative of heating the slate slowly by placing it over the two unlit burners on my gas grill with the third burner set on low?

Katie wrote:Moving a very hot slab of slate from my indoor oven to my outdoor grill doesn't sound very easy or convenient. What do you think of the alternative of heating the slate slowly by placing it over the two unlit burners on my gas grill with the third burner set on low?

I'll bet that would work just fine. After all, a gas grill is nothing more than an outdoor oven.

It's possible, I remember reading somewhere else about how you can temper the slate by leaning it against the wall of a grill as it heats up. The most important thing is that the slate tempers slowly. Slate is formed in layers under high pressure, so it's very brittle and if put on a hot grill, it will heat up unevenly causing fractures and small pieces will fly off!

For the first time in years I am finally living in a house where I can grill, and I've been going nuts with it. I don't think we've even turned on the stove in a month. We can get good seafood here in Morelia, Mexico, maybe 150 miles from the Pacific. Two things I prefer:whole red snapper and 16 to 20 to the pound shrimp. For the snapper, I score it on both sides, insert garlic, douse with olive oil and sprinkle salt and pepper. Maybe five minutes a side. Meat comes off easily and there are few bones. Shrimp, also olive oil and garlic. I cook them and eat them New Orleans style meaning shell on. Awfully damn good. I've put the grill in our (well-ventilated) garage since it's rainy season. Standard charcoal here is not briquettes but real charcoal, usually mesquite.

Just by coincidence, I bought a kilo of shrimp this afternoon and just over a kilo of red snapper. Shrimp today, snapper tomorrow and then the rest of the shrimp Thursday. Yum. A good week.