stevez wrote:My take from the linked article is that the food/menu is not changing but that they will no longer use the word deli to describe it.

312 Dining Diva wrote:New River North eatery Dillman's has been open for less than two weeks and principle owner Brendan Sodikoff is already making changes. He admits that his vision for a contemporary deli concept has been lost on some customers, so he'll be "dropping the use of the word delicatessen in association with Dillman's," effective immediately.

He added, in a message to 312DD:

"The food style will remain the same with the coffee bar, all-day casual dining and strong classic drinks. Guests are having the most difficult time wrapping their heads around what were doing. They've been so disappointed we don't have a deli case, it borders on anger.

Yes, stevez, and thank god for that as I'd already written a Sun-Times piece about the food (which runs in three weeks) and I'd be unhappy if I had to re-do it (though I'd be very happy to eat at Dillman's again; try the knish!)

I hope the overall concept won't change--or at least I want to get there before it does.

I wonder if Sodikoff's stated reason ("people were disappointed we don't have a deli case") is the only reason for the dropping of the deli designation. Could it be that "deli" was limiting their business, because, let's face it, not everybody likes a good Jewish deli? (There's no accounting for taste.)

Dinner there tonight was a mixed bag. I'll first note that I had no issue with the atmosphere/decor. They've obviously decided that liquor is one key to profitability and the decor looks intended more for a dinner crowd (though the crowd was thin this Friday night).

As for food, my friend and I split a couple of sides to start, in addition to the pickles. I wasn't a fan of either the new or sour pickle. The new was too bland for my taste, the sour a little too sweet, not enough sour and not quite enough dill for my taste.

My favorite item was the knish, and it was one of the very best I've ever tasted. The beauty all started with the thin, crisp exterior, but the well seasoned, chunky potato filling was perfect too. Sour cream and chives nice for a little contrast. Two to an order, I probably could make a meal of these. The potato pancake, one of the most crisp I've ever tried, was quite good too, but it was the knish that I really loved.

Then I had the pastrami and it really did not do it for me. I remember when I first started making my own pastrami, it took me a while to find the right level of smoke. In my opinion, Dillman's is in that mode, and in my opinion, the smoke is too front and center. At the same time, not enough pepper, coriander and garlic, even less when you consider how much the smoke dominated. I've had pastrami from coast to coast, and also smoked meat in Montreal, and the amount of smoke in my sandwich was probably equal to every other version combined. Also, the cure did not fully penetrate the meat, such that the edges were red but there was gray towards the middle. It was plenty rich and fatty, but otherwise lacking in many ways.

But my cocktail (can't remember which one, bourbon though), knish and potato pancake were good enough that I plan on checking out more of the menu. I debated ordering the chicken pot pie so I'll give that a try at some point.

I had dinner here tonight with my wife and parents, and we all came across super impressed. Growing up on the North Shore, we know deli food pretty well and this hit all the right notes with a bump up in sophistication. We decided to order a number of items and share all of them, and ended up with the Cesar salad, half & half sandwich (pastrami & corned beef) the veal schnitzel, and the pot pie. The Cesar was similar to the one we'd recently enjoyed at Bavette's, minus the smoked white fish. Personally, I much preferred the pastrami at Dillman's to the Fumare meat. I prefer the thinner slice, and liked the smokey flavor. Perhaps by getting the half & half, the corned beef balanced it out a bit. Was perhaps a tiny bit dry, but lean and tender which went over well with the parents and wife. I'd have preferred a little more fat to moisten it up. The schnitzel was the best I've had in a long time, perfectly crisp and not in any way oily, with a tarragon sauce. The pot pie was also quite good. For dessert, we had a slice of the carrot cake, and it may be the best carrot cake on earth. The cream cheese frosting had hints of clove and cayenne in addition to the more commonly found nutmeg and cinnamon. We liked that the food was exactly what one would expect at a real deli, but better executed and enhanced without being cutesy like some of the menu at places like Little Goat can get. We also thought the prices were very reasonable for the quality and location. Will definitely be back, and will be great to hit as it starts getting chillier into the fall and winter.

blipsman wrote:half & half sandwich (pastrami & corned beef)

When I was there earlier in the week, I was told a half & half was not possible. This was due to either an untrained server (seems likely for some reason; there were other minor gaffes) or to the fact that at that point, half & half sandwiches were not possible (I think we're seeing this new restaurant change in small and big ways all the time).

David Hammond wrote:

blipsman wrote:half & half sandwich (pastrami & corned beef)

When I was there earlier in the week, I was told a half & half was not possible. This was due to either an untrained server (seems likely for some reason; there were other minor gaffes) or to the fact that at that point, half & half sandwiches were not possible (I think we're seeing this new restaurant change in small and big ways all the time).

I don't believe it was on the menu, but the server recommended it when we asked what she liked best... to be clear, it was a sandwich w/ corned beef and pastrami stacked throughout the sandwich, not 1/2 a pastrami sandwich and 1/2 a corned beef, despite what she called it.

blipsman wrote:

David Hammond wrote:

blipsman wrote:half & half sandwich (pastrami & corned beef)

When I was there earlier in the week, I was told a half & half was not possible. This was due to either an untrained server (seems likely for some reason; there were other minor gaffes) or to the fact that at that point, half & half sandwiches were not possible (I think we're seeing this new restaurant change in small and big ways all the time).

I don't believe it was on the menu, but the server recommended it when we asked what she liked best... to be clear, it was a sandwich w/ corned beef and pastrami stacked throughout the sandwich, not 1/2 a pastrami sandwich and 1/2 a corned beef, despite what she called it.

It definitely was not on the menu when we were there, either.

At Dillman’s this morning, I saw the sign painter out front making
amendments to their existing window signage. I asked him what exactly he was
changing and he mentioned any reference to them being
a “Deli”. So, as usual, Sodikoff & Co., were right on the case.

I tried their homemade bagels & cream cheese this morning along with
some coffee while trix had the smoked salmon plate (accompanied with
wispy shaved red onions, capers, and dill) and their homemade rye
bread. For my bold palate, I had a hard time getting around the
airiness of their bagels and cream cheese. Although the cream cheese
has a nice subtle tang to it, I find its lightness an affront to any
self-respecting Hebrew. Same goes for their low-density bagel.
And I'm definitely not a guy who's looking for a bagel that can be used
as ballast.

We also tried their pastrami and matzoh ball soup on a previous visit
and found both those items falling quite short – the matzoh ball and
their thinly shaved, overbrined/oversmoked pastrami were both salt bombs. The
chicken broth was completely nondescript while the latke just functional.

The standout items on both visits, though, were the desserts – the
coconut mocha cream pie and special chocolate banana bread. Neither
trix nor I are dessert people so take it for what it's worth. But we both walked away from Dillman’s
thinking that it would make for a great late night coffee & dessert/toast destination.

No matter what shortcomings I may find, I always walk away from any of
Sodikoff’s restaurants (Maude’s, Bavette’s, Gilt Bar, Au Cheval,
Doughnut Vault) getting first-rate service (meaning highly attentive but not necessarily professional) and a sense that a lot of
thoughtfulness is going into each and every dish, regardless. And that makes me a big, big fan.

Talking with a friend today, I had a hard time wrapping my head around there being no bagels by early afternoon. Because, as the server said, they only make bagels in the morning and unless they can serve a freshly made bagel, they're not serving any bagels.

Not calling it a deli is a start.

I finally made it over to Dillman's for lunch today. I really liked it overall, but I can also see why some didn't quite get the "deli" association. I'd say that "deli inspired" is pretty much on the mark, though.





I did as the sign said and was rewarded with a plate of house brined pickles. The one I sampled was a nice sour pickle with a moderate amount of pucker. I didn't think to check if all of the pickles they brought us were full sours, because new pickles are listed as well.

Dillman's House Made Pickles


We tried the "Chicken Liver Toast", which is an interesting riff on "traditional" chopped liver. It's roughly chopped and combined with schmaltz and a vinaigrette, giving it a nice acid kick. This is served with Texas toast and a small ramekin of schmaltz for spreading. I really liked this, but it could never be confused with anything my Bubbe would crank out.

Dillman's Chicken Liver Toast

David Hammond wrote:try the knish!

The other starter we tried was the baked potato knish. In my opinion, this was the best dish of the day. Using baked potatoes lent the perfect texture to the filling, and the crust was obviously made by someone with serious baking chops. The knishes are actually quite small (served as an order of two), and I think their size contributes to the perfect balance between pastry and filling.

Dillman's Baked Potato Knish


For my main, I had the half and half sandwich. There was some discussion about where this was on the menu earlier in the thread. It's actually not on the menu as such, but the menu does say, "Corned Beef and/or Pastrami on Rye" (approx.) and when I asked for a combo, the waitress said, "Sure. The half and half".

Dillman's Half and Half


The sandwich lived up to its name. It was half good. I really enjoyed the corned beef, but to my taste the pastrami was over salted and over smoked. The house baked caraway rye was very good, though. Next time I'll skip the pastrami. It will be a corned beef sandwich for me, or something else from the menu.

My dining companion ordered the house smoked whitefish avocado salad. I really enjoyed both the whitefish salad as well as the green salad that accompanied it. The vinaigrette on the greens was especially good, with a nice tarragon and citrus tang.

Dillman's Smoked Whitefish Avocado Salad


To finish up, we split a piece of their chocolate layer cake. All I can say is that if you are looking for an extreme chocolate fudge experience, then this cake is for you. Again, the hand of a great baker is showing through. I've had cakes similar looking to this one and generally, they are out of balance and over the top with either chocolate (is that possible?) or sugar. Sometimes they taste more like a chemical loaf than a cake. This cake is rich and over the top, but it's also perfectly balanced and one of the best versions of this type of cake I've had in quite some time. I don't think I could eat this cake very often, but when the craving strikes, I'll be back for more.

Dillman's Chocolate LayerCake

two typos. "hose smoked" and "bak for more".

agree wholeheartedly w/your opinion and was really happy to see the pix of the young women going in, as i was sitting watching them through most of our meal.

Jazzfood wrote:two typos. "hose smoked" and "bak for more".

Thanks. Fixed.

Shit, thought I pm'd you. Oh well. Didn't have my capitals on and busted. Must have something to do w/this new website layout.

Jazzfood wrote:Shit, thought I pm'd you. Oh well. Didn't have my capitals on and busted. Must have something to do w/this new website layout.

Sure, blame your tools.

My tool is fine. Thanks. No complaints. It's this new fangled design I'm a talkin'bout. If I used em, there'd be a smilely face here. But I don't do cute, so you'll just have to imagine my smiing face teasing you.

I'm sort of disappointed the menu has become less Jewish in the last few weeks (eg, latkes became potato pancakes). I also want them to bring the bologna sandwich back NAOW!

I'm also glad they are doing a corned beef/pastrami mixture. When I asked for it a few weeks ago, it wasn't an option--now it's on the menu. I guess I wasn't the only one.

I was there Saturday, and it was dead, while Gilt was busy. People need to stop going to Manny's and start going to this place. I hope it makes it...

Swung into Dillman's today in the middle of the afternoon for a cocktail and a sandwich. Ordered the Dillman's Punch and a Turkey Club (on my previous visit, I ordered this sandwich and really liked it - in fact, I posted a yelp review defending the new restaurant, and I rarely post on yelp).

This time. YIKES.

The drink eventually came in a cup overflowing with ice pellets - it looked like a snow cone. I couldn't drink it since in order to get any drink out, I had to tip the cup and ice would cascade down my face and onto the bar. I lightheartedly told the bartender that I didn't understand how to drink it, and I fully expected her to tell me she forgot a straw or that she would take some ice out, something. I even showed her what happened when I tried to drink it. Her response, "Oh, I'll bring this up when we talk about how we make drinks, " and then she walked away. I was left to stare at a drink I couldn't drink. What the hell.

The sandwich was remarkably mediocre this time. Sloppily constructed with avocado falling out from the sea of mayo. Tasty, but no better than a sandwich across the street at EBC.

Having finished the sandwich, I got the bartender's attention and asked for my check. She cleared my plate, and then went and talked to a group of other people who worked there - they were sitting at the bar, as well, perhaps 4 seats from me. After roughly 10 minutes of watching her take orders, deliver food, chat, make coffee drinks for her friends, I eventually had to interrupt them and ask for my check.

She charged me for the drink I didn't drink. So I had a $25 turkey sandwich.

I'm now in agreement with those who think that this place is in deep trouble. (also, I really like au cheval, have been there a bunch, and have never had an experience there remotely as poor as this.)

Hours later on my way home, I stopped by Spinzer and got a hunter beef sandwich. $5.99 and AMAZING.

disagree wrote:I was left to stare at a drink I couldn't drink.

I've never met a drink I couldn't drink. Why didn't you ask for a straw?

Teresa wrote:

disagree wrote:I was left to stare at a drink I couldn't drink.

I've never met a drink I couldn't drink. Why didn't you ask for a straw?

I thought it was her responsibility to present me with everything I needed for my $12 drink. I gave her an easy out when I laughingly told her I didn't know how to drink it.

Get this though! I did eventually reach over to the bar "stuff" and grab myself a straw.

But to my horror it couldn't penetrate the ice field!

Scotty2Hotty wrote:I'm sort of disappointed the menu has become less Jewish in the last few weeks (eg, latkes became potato pancakes).

I've got plans to go here with a friend the week leading up to Yom Kippur, and I hope the place has retained some semblance of Jewishness by the time I get there!

In fact, I wonder if some of the problems the place is apparently having in attracting customers are attributable to an identity crisis, a case of the restaurant not knowing what it is or what it wants to be (or losing confidence in what it is and what it wants to be). The jettisoning of all "deli" references, the change you note above, etc. Maybe it would be better off committing itself to the original concept and being the best version of that it can be. It's easy to "Monday morning quarterback," but that's what I'm wondering.

My wife and I paid a visit to Dillman's for lunch this afternoon, well ahead of my scheduled "lunch date" with a friend that's a couple weeks from now.

We liked it!

So, some observations in no particular order.

*Any concerns I had over a de-Jewishifying of the place were ill-founded. Even though Dillman's is not a traditional deli (and never was intended to be), there is no mistaking the "Jewish deli homage" that runs through the menu.

*Business was doing just fine. In fact, I was pleasantly surprised to find it a bit busier than I would have expected for a weekday and the time of day we were there. We arrived around 2 PM and departed around 3. During that time they remained around one-third full. I don't know many restaurants of any description that are one-third full during that time window.

*The potato knish was, as others have said, to die for.

*Some have complained that the matzo ball soup is too salty. The broth maybe could do with a bit less salt. However, in the dish's favor, the matzo ball itself was one of the best I've ever had. Very large, but very light, and holding together well. It is probably the best matzo ball I've had in Chicago. The broth, to its credit, had lots of nice vegetables in it.

*My initial bite of the Reuben sandwich made me think the corned beef was a bit saltier than it needed to be. However, as all the flavors of the sandwich melded, I had a fleeting sense memory of the Platonic ideal Reuben sandwich of my youth. Dillman's version is doing something right!

*We liked the retro red-banquetted chandeliered decor.

I'm very glad to be able to move from the "speculating about Dillman's" to the "experiencing Dillman's" category. We'll be back.

mtgl wrote:I spent a wonderful Friday night at Paul McGee's new Three Dots and a Dash, where I must've sat just a few seats away from Mr. Hammond at that fine bar. Needless to say, after such a night, I needed a hearty breakfast, and Dillman's filled that role nicely this Saturday morning.

It being brand new, I did some heavy-duty reconnaissance for one man, ordering corned beef hash, a bagel with cream cheese, and latkes.



As per Dillman's menu, the hash would come with a fried egg on top, but I'm not much of an egg eater, and asked for it without. Also accompanying the hash were some fine pieces of toast and a corned beef gravy of sorts. The house-made beef is not nearly so salty as the canned hash I'm used to ingesting (a childhood favorite of mine, don't judge). Definitely one of the better versions I've ever had. Scooping up a bit of hash onto a toast point, then topping with gravy, made for a pretty delectable bite. The gravy really concentrates the "corniness" in addition to lending some moisture. A solid dish for which I will return.

Latkes were pretty good, but not as good as the ones I make. However, I'm often too lazy to make them. These were pretty light, with potato threads approaching angel-hair pasta shape. I'd also like to point out that these latkes were A) much better than the ones at Steve's Deli and B) the same price. Steve's charged nine bucks for three, Dillman's charges six for two. This drives home an important point for me: this place is better than Steve's by a mile, and with similar prices. Can't beat that.

They do make the bagels in house. They also charge almost as much for cream cheese as they do for the bagel itself. Bagel was good, but I'm not an East Coaster. Whipped cream cheese was tasty; butter and a couple types of house-made jams were available as well. Apologies to KennyZ, but this did come toasted, although staff would doubtless accommodate. Also, they aren't yet offering bagels to go, but I was assured they would in the future.

All this came to thirty four bucks or so, tax and tip included--right in line with costs at Steve's. Portions were more reasonable, especially the hash. I can definitely see people scoffing at the notion of paying 12 or 13 bucks for hash, but honestly, given what you'll pay for a mediocre breakfast elsewhere in the area, it's not too dear. It was a bit odd not having a deli counter in a deli, but eh, ambiance is something I seldom pay attention to. I sat at the bar, too, and the stool wasn't terribly uncomfortable or anything, but again I barely paid attention. Much like Three Dots and a Dash, it does seem like Dillman's is trying to market an old concept to young people--clientele seemed like young professional types. Anyhow, for such an improvement in quality, at fair prices, I will be back quickly to do more exploration.

I can't imagine $34 for this honestly.
It appears the Steve's in Chicago is closed but the one in Michigan lists:

Bagel w/ cream cheese 3.19
Corned beef hash & eggs any style 8.79
Potato Latkes (1) 4.19
Total 16.17

I understand prices in Chicago will be higher but $34 to me seems more than a bit steep.

zoid wrote:I can't imagine $34 for this honestly.
It appears the Steve's in Chicago is closed but the one in Michigan lists:

Bagel w/ cream cheese 3.19
Corned beef hash & eggs any style 8.79
Potato Latkes (1) 4.19
Total 16.17

Maybe if they charged more, they'd still be open!

=R=

Ok Ronnie - that was funny

Perhaps you should examine the number in parentheses before commenting further. That's for one latke that was frankly terrible; three of them cost rather more, and satisfied even less. And for a couple extra bucks, I would happily take house corned beef hash over the canned product at Steve's, but that's just me. I only suffered a dozen or so meals at that place, and to me, Dillman's was a worthy replacement, esp. Compared to other tired flavorless, overpriced 'brunch' places in the area.

I also had a solid espresso, and that total includes tax and tip. For a meal with calories for two or three, in that area, for as much as I enjoyed it, that was fair. But forgive me, I actually ate at both Steve's and Dillman's, perhaps I have no right to compare.

I'm writing a piece for Sun-Times about Dillman's, so I got Sodikoff on the phone yesterday, and I was genuinely touched by his sincerity and his "sadness" at how the public responded to the word "delicatessen."

He said that "I usually don't do a very good job of communicating my concepts to the public. I just let them figure it out." Seems like that strategy has been generally successful. This time, though, he said people were coming in and becoming infuriated that he had, apparently "tricked" them by naming his place a deli, when it clearly wasn't, according to them. Where's the cold cut case?! What's with the chandeliers, etc.

People in this part of the world seem to associate deli with what's found in, say, NYC or LA: something more along the lines of the classic Jewish delicatessen. Sodikoff was going for a broader definition of the delicatessen, and that is what many customers had a tough time accepting.

David Hammond wrote:I'm writing a piece for Sun-Times about Dillman's, so I got Sodikoff on the phone yesterday, and I was genuinely touched by his sincerity and his "sadness" at how the public responded to the word "delicatessen."

He said that "I usually don't do a very good job of communicating my concepts to the public. I just let them figure it out." Seems like that strategy has been generally successful. This time, though, he said people were coming in and becoming infuriated that he had, apparently "tricked" them by naming his place a deli, when it clearly wasn't, according to them. Where's the cold cut case?! What's with the chandeliers, etc.

People in this part of the world seem to associate deli with what's found in, say, NYC or LA: something more along the lines of the classic Jewish delicatessen. Sodikoff was going for a broader definition of the delicatessen, and that is what many customers had a tough time accepting.

Now having experienced Dillman's for myself (and having liked it--see above), I have to say I fully understand the reaction of those who were confused and/or taken aback. Dillman's is a slightly weird (and maybe even slightly offputting, at first) combination: A take on homespun Jewish food in a milieu that is anything but homespun. It isn't just that there's no deli case; that's the least of the disconnect. Deli case or no, the place somehow doesn't feel like the kind of food it serves. At least, it doesn't meet one's preconceptions or match one's prior experience.

It takes getting used to.

Like I say, we settled into the place and began to appreciate it. But it's a hybrid that isn't what you quite expect even if you're expecting something different. Newness can breed excitement, but it can also breed discomfort. I hope the experiment will prove successful, because we plan to return.

riddlemay wrote:the place somehow doesn't feel like the kind of food it serves. At least, it doesn't meet one's preconceptions or match one's prior experience.

Exactly, and I believe Mr. Sodikoff's feeling would be that those preconceptions are limited and derived primarily from experience with American Jewish delicatessens and that his goal is to follow a more "global" (his word) model of the delicatessen that also reflects the feel of delicatessens in Russia and Italy (about which I, personally, have even less experience or understanding).

Love the tongue (currently off the menu).

David Hammond wrote:

riddlemay wrote:the place somehow doesn't feel like the kind of food it serves. At least, it doesn't meet one's preconceptions or match one's prior experience.

Exactly, and I believe Mr. Sodikoff's feeling would be that those preconceptions are limited and derived primarily from experience with American Jewish delicatessens and that his goal is to follow a more "global" (his word) model of the delicatessen that also reflects the feel of delicatessens in Russia and Italy (about which I, personally, have even less experience or understanding).

Here's the danger (and I hope the place survives it). Globalness is cool, and all well and good. But Jews (and I'm overgeneralizing, and extrapolating from my own emotional makeup, but so be it) associate foods like corned beef, pastrami, matzo ball soup, et. al., with home. Even if your Jewish mother never cooked, the deli you went to with your family when you were a kid was a second home to you. When you looked around at the other customers, most of the servers, and the guys running the place, you felt you were with your peeps. You were safe; you were home. Dillman's doesn't feel like home. Almost any other kind of cuisine could survive not feeling like home to its most likely customer base, but I'm not sure Jewish cuisine can. We shall see.

riddlemay wrote:

David Hammond wrote:

riddlemay wrote:the place somehow doesn't feel like the kind of food it serves. At least, it doesn't meet one's preconceptions or match one's prior experience.

Exactly, and I believe Mr. Sodikoff's feeling would be that those preconceptions are limited and derived primarily from experience with American Jewish delicatessens and that his goal is to follow a more "global" (his word) model of the delicatessen that also reflects the feel of delicatessens in Russia and Italy (about which I, personally, have even less experience or understanding).

Here's the danger (and I hope the place survives it). Globalness is cool, and all well and good. But Jews (and I'm overgeneralizing, and extrapolating from my own emotional makeup, but so be it) associate foods like corned beef, pastrami, matzo ball soup, et. al., with home. Even if your Jewish mother never cooked, the deli you went to with your family when you were a kid was a second home to you. When you looked around at the other customers, most of the servers, and the guys running the place, you felt you were with your peeps. You were safe; you were home. Dillman's doesn't feel like home. Almost any other kind of cuisine could survive not feeling like home to its most likely customer base, but I'm not sure Jewish cuisine can. We shall see.

This isn't Jewish cuisine; it's apparent milieu is 'updated' Ashkenazic Eastern European cuisine. Even though I'm Jewish of primarily that descent, IMO Italian, Moroccan, Yemeni and Libyan/Tunisian or Iraqi Jewish - or if you really deep dive, Italian or Georgian - food that follows how local Jewish populations adapted kashrut to local customs and traditions is just as much 'Jewish' cuisine.

OTOH these are almost all non-existent locally. As opposed to NY or Paris, let alone 'home cooking' type restaurants in Israel...

We still need to check this out, though. And boy do I miss Ashkenaz, not to mention the late, great Moe's Deli that was on the Rush side of 600 N. Michigan up through IIRC the late 80's...