Eating Lion Meat. Would You?

Eating Lion Meat. Would You?

Earlier this week, I drove down to far south Homer Glen to visit Czimer’s, a 100-year-old butcher shop specializing in game and seafood…particularly large game and seafood. Rich Czimer is a loquacious, eccentric gentleman, quite knowledgeable and committed to a business that has been in his family for a century.

Walking in, one of the first things I spotted in the freezer cabinet was lion, both as bratwurst and steak.



I posted a picture of the lion bratwurst, mentioned that I planned to buy some lion steaks, and got a lot of quizzical and sometimes angry responses on Instagram and Facebook, as well as in face-to-face conversations. People couldn’t understand how this could be a good thing to do.

“These are all domestic animals here,” Czimer told me, and he explained that his products have all passed state and federal inspections.

Now, truth be told, Czimer has had some trouble with the law, selling tiger meat (which is illegal) labeled as lion (which is legal). He got six months – and the further indignity of having his store torched by the Animal Liberation Front.

Lion meat is a farmed product, raised under controlled circumstances at licensed facilities, inspected by USDA, and in that sense the meat of the lion is the same as pork or beef.

Lions, however, are perceived as different than cows or pork. That’s because lions are “noble,” “kings of the jungle,” etc., portrayed on screen by the likable Simba and his family as well as a host of other regal beasts, including Hubert the Harris Lion and the MGM logo.

Such flattering and romanticized portrayals lead some to believe that lions are categorically different than other animals that we readily eat. Yet, they are all god’s creatures, as are we. We just happen to be at the top of the food chain (thanks, mostly, to superior weaponry).

It seems to me that, if you’re a carnivore, objecting to the consumption of lion meat is hypocritical. Pigs, we’re told, are very intelligent and cows have beautiful eyes – maybe neither is as noble as the lion, but both deserve to live – and die for our dinner – as much as the lion does.

Pork and beef are tasty, but that culinary value is not a moral justification for slaughtering them, yet, that’s all the justification most meat eaters (including me) require. So if lion is, indeed, tasty (and I have not as yet eaten the meat of this cat) why doesn’t that same rationale apply? Why is it so wrong to eat lion meat, assuming it’s raised in the same approved conditions as other livestock, and like those livestock, raised for no other reason than to be harvested.

Or maybe it’s not a question of right or wrong, but of what one can comfortably put in one’s mouth.

More exotic meat at the Czimer's site: http://www.czimers.com/

David Hammond wrote:It seems to me that, if you’re a carnivore, objecting to the consumption of lion meat is hypocritical. Pigs, we’re told, are very intelligent and cows have beautiful eyes – maybe neither is as noble as the lion, but both deserve to live – and die for our dinner – as much as the lion does.

In fairness, I believe many would object because no one would argue that lions are sustainable, thus making them perhaps a less ethical food choice. There is considerable debate over whether lions are endangered and whether they should be categorized accordingly. A lot of big game hunters would argue that the huge sums money they receive for the privilege to hunt lions goes towards and improves conservation efforts. But to me, that is the real issue . . . and not how beautiful they are. Horses . . . well . . . that's an issue for those focused on beauty and domestication.

Hi,

I may be mistaken, I believe lion was served at an LTH picnic.

Where I might have some cultural-related issues dining on is dog and cat. Yet if presented with either, I would likely eat it.

Regards,

Can't see why not.

BR wrote:

David Hammond wrote:It seems to me that, if you’re a carnivore, objecting to the consumption of lion meat is hypocritical. Pigs, we’re told, are very intelligent and cows have beautiful eyes – maybe neither is as noble as the lion, but both deserve to live – and die for our dinner – as much as the lion does.

In fairness, I believe many would object because no one would argue that lions are sustainable, thus making them perhaps a less ethical food choice. There is considerable debate over whether lions are endangered and whether they should be categorized accordingly. A lot of big game hunters would argue that the huge sums money they receive for the privilege to hunt lions goes towards and improves conservation efforts. But to me, that is the real issue . . . and not how beautiful they are. Horses . . . well . . . that's an issue for those focused on beauty and domestication.

Sustainable" is a slippery concept, because if the domestic lions are raised to be harvested, then they wouldn't be alive if they were not commercially useful. We're not talking about wild game here, but rather farmed animals.

A good discussion of some of the arguments for and against lion meat: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/0 ... -lion-meat

Jonah wrote:A good discussion of some of the arguments for and against lion meat: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/0 ... -lion-meat

Thanks for the fascinating link. To my point about people who tear up over eating lion but think nothing of eating pigs or cows, Arroyo, who is sponsoring the bill to restrict or ban lion meat in Illinois, said:

"I've always thought of the lion to be the king of the jungle," Arroyo tells The Salt. "I never knew that people were consuming lion meat. I don't know who would want to do that."

A better, less moronic (in contrast to Arroyo's "point") not to eat lion meat: the poor taste and texture. At least, that's what I recall from my one sample at Nairobi's (in)famous Carnivore, many years ago. We have tweaked pigs and cows to taste good for millenia, on the other hand.

JeffB wrote:A better, less moronic (in contrast to Arroyo's "point") not to eat lion meat: the poor taste and texture. At least, that's what I recall from my one sample at Nairobi's (in)famous Carnivore, many years ago. We have tweaked pigs and cows to taste good for millenia, on the other hand.

That would be my only possible objection. Carnivores generally don't make for tasty meat. Other than that, meat is meat to me.

David Hammond wrote:Sustainable" is a slippery concept, because if the domestic lions are raised to be harvested, then they wouldn't be alive if they were not commercially useful. We're not talking about wild game here, but rather farmed animals.

I recall listening to an NPR program on exotic game hunting on huge ranches in Texas. There are some horned breeds like addax or axis deer, where more of these animals exist in Texas than elsewhere in the world. The non-hunting, pro animal group was arguing that this is wrong but in my opinion didn't have a good reply to the question of seeing as these animals are on the verge of going extinct in Africa, the Texas animals could be used to repopulate African parks if needed.


Back to the question, would I eat lion meat? If the lion meat was prepared and in front of me for consumption, I would try it. That said I have no plans to go out of my way to try it.

The question for me is whether they mix it with pork or not. I see that mixing with a lot of game meats that frankly aren't that good. It can be good, or bad. Often it just tastes like pork and then you are wasting a lot of money on an "exotic" sausage that's really no different than an average pork sausage.

David Hammond wrote:

BR wrote:

David Hammond wrote:It seems to me that, if you’re a carnivore, objecting to the consumption of lion meat is hypocritical. Pigs, we’re told, are very intelligent and cows have beautiful eyes – maybe neither is as noble as the lion, but both deserve to live – and die for our dinner – as much as the lion does.

In fairness, I believe many would object because no one would argue that lions are sustainable, thus making them perhaps a less ethical food choice. There is considerable debate over whether lions are endangered and whether they should be categorized accordingly. A lot of big game hunters would argue that the huge sums money they receive for the privilege to hunt lions goes towards and improves conservation efforts. But to me, that is the real issue . . . and not how beautiful they are. Horses . . . well . . . that's an issue for those focused on beauty and domestication.

Sustainable" is a slippery concept, because if the domestic lions are raised to be harvested, then they wouldn't be alive if they were not commercially useful. We're not talking about wild game here, but rather farmed animals.

Right, but they're being captured elsewhere in the first place. They're not indigenous to the US. 60 Minutes did a report on this and similar issues in the last couple of years - very controversial - I just don't know exactly where I stand on the issue. But my point is that there are reasons to avoid lion while nonetheless eating pig that would not make you a hypocrite.

mgmcewen wrote:The question for me is whether they mix it with pork or not. I see that mixing with a lot of game meats that frankly aren't that good. It can be good, or bad. Often it just tastes like pork and then you are wasting a lot of money on an "exotic" sausage that's really no different than an average pork sausage.

I didn't buy the sausages because I wanted to taste the actual creature, with minimal additional seasoning or other additives.

I ended up buying llama, black bear and lion steaks.

I do not anticipate that the lion will taste exceptionally good...but I'm thinking I might prepare it for Thanksgiving (along with the usual turkey, etc.). My plan is to do a over-night marinade and a long, slow, wet cook (perhaps a braise).

I have eaten Lion meat and was not that impressed. It might be good in a stew. That said, I am not sure that I feel that comfortable with the consumption of Lion, simply because it is in the cat family. By the same token, I would not feel right about eating wolf, coyote or hyena. I certainly would never eat a primate. I feel that anything non-mammalian is fair game. I also think that cows, pigs, goats and sheep, though mammals, are hoofed creatures and therefore seem OK to eat. Actually, I would also be OK with horsemeat. I do eat rabbit, though, which is a non-hoofed mammal, so maybe the limitation is with carnivorous mammals (I might eat a vegan if they weren't so lean). This discussion has made me not only consider what limitations I place on what is acceptable meat, but also examine why I have those limits.

David Hammond wrote:I do not anticipate that the lion will taste exceptionally good...but I'm thinking I might prepare it for Thanksgiving (along with the usual turkey, etc.). My plan is to do a over-night marinade and a long, slow, wet cook (perhaps a braise).

Yes, a ragout, following the lead of now-extinct Frenchy's in Milwaukee, sounds like the way to go. Frenchy's served lion four ways—and they didn't use those decrepit circus animals either.

Direct from the Veldt. Free range is good, no? The whole discussion has that weird Bradbury overtone, so I'm glad Peter added this.

I also have a visceral reaction to eating carnivores (and omnivorous scavengers... I guess chickens eat meat and blood meal, but I wouldn't eat rat or hyena). I've tried bear and lion, but I don't feel great about it and wouldn't go out of my way to find more. I certainly wouldn't fault someone for eating it, though.

Frankly if it's not endangered, is humanely sourced (as much as reasonably possible), and not illegal I'll try it once.

I think this is moot for me having eaten at least lion, camel, and kangaroo through nr706, and a variety of other critters at La Casa de Samuel and abroad. The "eating a carnivore" question is an interesting one, though many delicious fish are as carnivorous as they come. I knew someone who drew a line at the number of chambers in the animal's heart, thereby avoiding mammals entirely.

I will say that, novelty value aside, exotic game (at least as available locally, which seems primarily to be hard-frozen or jerkied), doesn't seem offer an improvement in flavor or texture to standard offerings. Alligator is only considered exotic up here, sustainably produced (generally), and comes closest to something uncommon but with its own texture and paired applications that compel me to order again when it's on the menu. So tooth and fang possessors of all heart configurations, bring 'em on when fresh and tasty, with the exception of primates out of professional courtesy. (And at that end of the smart spectrum, octopuses I have to figure are clever enough to either be threatening or self-sacrificing in some Borg-like eusocial manner, and seem to have co-evolved with modern citrus to an irresistible degree).

Cathy2 wrote:Hi,

I may be mistaken, I believe lion was served at an LTH picnic.

Where I might have some cultural-related issues dining on is dog and cat. Yet if presented with either, I would likely eat it.

Regards,

It was the 2011 picnic.
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=32515&p=387620&hilit=lion#p387620

My response is totally visceral and emotional and not based on anything rational: No, I wouldn't eat lion meat. When my mother fixed rabbit when I was a kid, I cried and cried and cried. (She thought it was a good idea to expose me and my sister to foods out of the norm for suburbia, which is not a bad thing). When I was visiting family in Vermont, I unknowingly ate bear meat in a stew I assumed was made with beef; it tasted odd to my kid-palate, and I wouldn't care to have it again.

If I think too much about the animals whose lives were given for my enjoyment, I end up having a hard time emotionally. But I haven't become a vegetarian.

I would not eat it or any exotic meat. I am not shedding any tears for the animals as I eat other meat so not reacting in a bleeding heart way. Its just not the thing to do. Can't explain it, its irrational. I don't fault it for others if that is what they want as long as they are not harming endangered species. I just wonder why anyone would go out of their way to get such exotic meats when there are many places to easily walk in and buy something delicious quickly. Perhaps it has no shock value and that is what is being sought. I must admit it does make for good reading so maybe that is it. Its interesting to some people. It would rope me in just to see. I challenge David Hammond to write an article about something mundane like macaroni and cheese and make it just as interesting.

toria wrote:I would not eat it or any exotic meat.

You wouldn't eat anything "exotic"? There are some who would feel Katy's Noodles are exotic. Or a Maxwell Street tamale. To label food as "exotic" and thus untouchable is a barrier of the mind, that I, personally, try to avoid.

My philosophy of the food life is that the more omnivorous you are, the more open you are, the more likely you’ll be to find interesting content to write about -- as a writer, that's what I want. It’s rare to find an open-minded person who refuses to eat anything but the un-exotic, or a closed-minded who is eager to try food from, say, Burma or Samoa or some other "exotic" locale. Who knows what comes first, the mindset or the appetite, but the very act of taking something foreign or "exotic" into one’s body involves characteristics of trust and curiosity that I tend to admire in people and which I emulate.

Open your mouth and your mind will follow.

David Hammond wrote: It’s rare to find an open-minded person who refuses to eat anything but the un-exotic, or a closed-minded who is eager to try food from, say, Burma or Samoa or some other "exotic" locale.

To be honest, this is not something I've even found to be a useful first-order approximation on whether someone is "open-mined" (however exactly you're defining it) or not. In my experience, it hasn't proved to be true at all. I know plenty of people I consider "open-minded" who are picky and unadventurous eaters, and plenty close-minded folk who'll eat anything and everything you put in front of them. Then again, maybe we have different definitions.

I eat many "exotic" things...but not if its meat. I am very open minded about trying most things except if its animal. There is some barrier there. I eat at Katy's all the time and have no problem. Love most ethnic food. I've traveled all over the world and eaten and tried things. Just not things that are not the typical beef, chicken, pork fish I am used to. Like I say there is some barrier there.

toria wrote:I eat many "exotic" things...but not if its meat.

How about...



I bought the Salt & Vinegar-flavored Crick-ettes -- haven't tried them yet.

I don't think the exotic/non-exotic argument is fair. I will generally eat anything put in front of me. I have not had a problem with guts and pluck or 'nads and intestines, lizards, snakes or insects. However, the only thing I have ever turned down was Kangaroo. I guess if I lived in Australia where roos are considered varmints like overgrown squirrels, maybe my attitude would be different, but I couldn't get past my childhood fascination with the creatures. You can make the argument that I eat cows and pigs, but no matter how illogical it might be, I just cannot convince myself to eat kangaroo. I doubt I would eat a Koala either.

Many people have limitations when it comes to what sort of creatures they will and will not eat. Sometimes those limitations make sense, and sometimes they are just knee-jerk reactions. Either way, I don't think it is right to disparage people for their tastes. I have Chinese friends who happily eat sea slugs and jelly fish, but will not drink root beer, because the flavor is too "exotic". My grandmother would eat kidneys and lungs, but had an absolute revulsion to the consumption of crabs or lobsters.

I do sometimes have a problem with the animal-cruelty argument when it is carried to an extreme. I went to a wedding once where the bride was a member of PETA. She threw an absolute fit because the caterer served those tiny shrimp on the salads. Even when the server offered to pick out the shrimp from her salad, she would not be consoled. She went as far as demanding that all the partially eaten salads be removed from the tables, even from the non-vegans. No matter how I tried, I just could not muster any compassion for what were not much more than brine shrimp. I wonder if she had a problem with antibiotics and antiseptics, or whether she would slap a mosquito that was biting her. I think for her, vegetarianism was a control-freak thing. She could manipulate people with her restricted dietary choices.

The most valid justification I have heard for being a vegetarian is "I just don't like meat". I had a Brazilian friend who was brought up on a cattle ranch. He ate so much beef as a kid that he just lost his taste for it. He never made a show of his vegetarianism. In fact, I knew him for over a year before I even realized that he didn't eat meat.

d4v3 wrote: Either way, I don't think it is right to disparage people for their tastes.

I agree. And it's that sort of attitude that makes people want to punch "foodies" square in the nose.

d4v3 wrote:I do sometimes have a problem with the animal-cruelty argument when it is carried to an extreme. I went to a wedding once where the bride was a member of PETA. She threw an absolute fit because the caterer served those tiny shrimp on the salads. Even when the server offered to pick out the shrimp from her salad, she would not be consoled. She went as far as demanding that all the partially eaten salads be removed from the tables, even from the non-vegans. No matter how I tried, I just could not muster any compassion for what were not much more than brine shrimp. I wonder if she had a problem with antibiotics and antiseptics, or whether she would slap a mosquito that was biting her. I think for her, vegetarianism was a control-freak thing. She could manipulate people with her restricted dietary choices.

Dave, I don't know this woman, of course, so I can't say whether she was being "manipulative" in her dietary choices, and I won't "disparage" her for her decision to stick to her PETA principles (if she's known as the person who won't eat animal products, how could she possibly serve them at her wedding?). If one is opposed to the consumption of living things, then that person would be understandably opposed to eating living things whenever possible. No shock there.

David Hammond wrote:

d4v3 wrote:I do sometimes have a problem with the animal-cruelty argument when it is carried to an extreme. I went to a wedding once where the bride was a member of PETA. She threw an absolute fit because the caterer served those tiny shrimp on the salads. Even when the server offered to pick out the shrimp from her salad, she would not be consoled. She went as far as demanding that all the partially eaten salads be removed from the tables, even from the non-vegans. No matter how I tried, I just could not muster any compassion for what were not much more than brine shrimp. I wonder if she had a problem with antibiotics and antiseptics, or whether she would slap a mosquito that was biting her. I think for her, vegetarianism was a control-freak thing. She could manipulate people with her restricted dietary choices.

Dave, I don't know this woman, of course, so I can't say whether she was being "manipulative" in her dietary choices, and I won't "disparage" her for her decision to stick to her PETA principles (if she's known as the person who won't eat animal products, how could she possibly serve them at her wedding?). If one is opposed to the consumption of living things, then that person would be understandably opposed to eating living things whenever possible. No shock there.

Yeah, I was just trying to come up with an example of extreme adherence to Peta's principles. Perhaps I was being unfair. It was really lame of the caterer, who was told the meal should be strictly vegan, to serve any animal products. I just had a problem with her reaction which was loud and totally over the top, especially since it was over those itty-bitty shrimp which are about as elementary a life form as I can imagine. If she was a Buddhist, then I would understand, but her opposition to the consumption of animals was based on PETA's anti-cruelty stance, and I just could not see how the consumption of these simple creatures could be considered cruel. I mean how advanced can their nervous systems be? They are certainly not self-aware. At any rate, her issue had nothing to do with "tastes" rather it was based on dogma, one that I find questionable. If she just said, I don't like tiny shrimps, I would have found her reaction to be more acceptable.