Blind Baking -- without weights?

O Wise Forum, can a pie crust be blind baked without weights if none are available? If so, would a few small fork holes in the bottom of the crust be recommended to keep it from bubbling or puffing up? Would said holes leak the liquidy custard filling in the second baking? Pumpkin, of course.

When blind baking a crust for purposes of preventing a soggy bottom, would a thick black metal pizza baking sheet under the Pyrex pie pan be good for adding more heat and, therefore, browning up the bottom of the crust better/ faster? Is a high temp like 400 degrees the way to go or a slower 350?

What's the worst that could happen?

Any help is appreciated very much! --Joy

Rather than attempt blind baking without weights, I would just bypass blind baking. Rose Levy Beranbaum uses a layer of ground pecans and gingersnaps to protect the crust from getting soggy from the filling. I prefer this method because (1) it saves a step and (2) the edges of my pie crusts always get too brown when I blind bake. If you want the bottom to brown up faster, putting it directly on the rack (or, as Beranbaum suggests, close to or directly on the bottom of the oven) works better than a baking sheet, which serves to distribute the heat. I burned a pie badly by placing it too close to the heat source once, so I usually use the middle rack. In my opinion, an uncrispy crust is better than a completely burned and ruined crust.

On the other hand, I blind baked a crust for an apple streusel pie last night using only a sheet of printer paper covered in a couple cups of dried beans. It worked just fine.

Beranbaum's recipe: http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/2005/11/great_pumpkin_pie_1.html

Joy wrote:O Wise Forum, can a pie crust be blind baked without weights if none are available? If so, would a few small fork holes in the bottom of the crust be recommended to keep it from bubbling or puffing up? Would said holes leak the liquidy custard filling in the second baking? Pumpkin, of course.

When blind baking a crust for purposes of preventing a soggy bottom, would a thick black metal pizza baking sheet under the Pyrex pie pan be good for adding more heat and, therefore, browning up the bottom of the crust better/ faster? Is a high temp like 400 degrees the way to go or a slower 350?

What's the worst that could happen?

Any help is appreciated very much! --Joy

I use pie weights, but in reading over my recipe for "Perfect Pecan Pie," I guess I don't have to! The pertinent instructions say:

"Chill shell until firm, about 1 hour. Prick sides and bottom with fork and line entire shell with heavy-duty aluminum foil.

"Press foil firmly against shell and extend it over fluted rim. Return shell to refrigerator while oven is heating.

"Adjust oven rack to center position and heat oven to 400 degrees. Bake, pressing once or twice with mitt-protected
hands, if necessary, to flatten any puffing, until crust is firmly set, about 15 minutes. Remove foil and continue to bake until bottom
begins to color, about 10 minutes longer. Remove from oven, brush sides and bottom with egg yolk, and return to oven until
yolk glazes over, about 1 minute longer. Remove from oven, and set aside while preparing the filling."

Dried beans, rice and similar items can be a substitute for pie weights. Just line the crust with foil first.

I don't have pie weights. I always use dried beans or rice in oversized aluminum foil which can be easily removed so no rice/beans fall in the crust. For a blind bake, I always make sure to remove the foil and beans/rice and leave in oven for 5 or so minutes to ensure a dry crust. If you do this, you won't have a soggy bottom, that simple.

But certain pies are just not made for a partially baked crust, including double-crust pies and many custard-based pies. For these, I make sure to put the very well chilled (if not partially frozen) pie (the cold crust is what matters) on a pre-heated stone (like a pizza stone) in the lower portion of the oven. I don't recommend leaving it on the stone the whole time - if possible, move to the middle of the oven about halfway through the cooking time. This will ensure that the bottom crust has a little, but not too much, crispness.

I know a lot of people have other tricks - sugar, flour, bread crumbs, etc. - to prevent a soggy bottom crust, and I've tried several, but I find my method gives me the exact filling desired and a solid crust.

Also, I don't like 400 for pie crusts - 375 at the most. It'll burn before you can get control over it otherwise. And if you think the edges are browning a bit too much, my solution is that I always keep a cut, aluminum foil edge around to drape over the pie. To shape it, I put a large, heavy duty sheet of aluminum foil over a pie pan the same size as the one I'm using, then carefully carve out the inside portion of the foil, leaving me with a large piece of foil (center cut out) that will rest comfortably on the pie crust edges and hang over and ensure they don't burn. You'll have to very lightly bend this foil piece to keep it in place, but this trick always works for me.

I knew a konditorei in California who used a layer of melted chocolate inside his fruit tarts to keep them from getting soggy. I'm sure he brushed it on after the tart shells were baked and before the fruit filling went in. The custard was cooked outside the tart. Probably no help for a pumpkin pie that needs to be baked again, but I'm just throwing it in here for the sake of others who might stumble upon this thread.

Hi,

I have given up on weights. I take a piece of foil and press it into the pie shell. I remove it the last minute or two to finish it off. If any crust slips down, I lift it up and press it back up before it cools.

Regards,

if i'm blind baking a pie, i chill it first. then line with foil and gently press it to conform to the shape, making sure it goes up and over the edges. you want to do this after the crust is cold, so you don't change the shape of the edge when pressing on the foil. then i take a smaller cake pan and place that inside to add a little weight. i never use pie weights. i also gently press down on the pan halfway through baking. i use the lower oven shelf and 400 degrees. anything oven proof (ceramic gratin pan, metal dish) will do. usually about 15 minutes covered (but that's for a metal pan, not glass; i'd do 375 for pyrex). like BR, i always bake a few minutes with the foil off to lightly brown it. i don't have trouble with burnt edges with this process. hope that helps...

I have pie weights but CI says you can use pennies. http://food52.com/recipes/24966-cook-s- ... -pie-crust

This may sound crazy but it works for me. In restaurants I've worked in I've preferred to blind bake without weights- they mess up the sides of the tart shell so it doesn't look as nice. Also it's easier. I pull the shell out half way through blind baking it, when it has started to puff up and look dry, and gently use my fingertips to pat down the bottom and sides where it has puffed up. Doing that once is usually enough. This way the sides and bottom cook more evenly as well. I learned this trick from a coworker, and it's especially helpful when baking small individual tart shells, they're easily deformed by the bulky pie weights or beans.

Edit: I'm amending this to recommend it ONLY for small individual tart shells, sorry. The larger ones' heftier sides will melt down without something to hold them up.

Thanks to everyone that answered my plea. I was stuck at home caregiving on Wednesday before Thanksgiving, while baking the pies. I could not run to the store for ginger snaps (how interesting) and had no dried beans. I dug deep into the pantry and came up with an ancient-looking bag of lentils and made one aluminum foil packet out of them. This would mean blind-baking the crusts one at a time. Baking the first crust, the sides on the crust slipped down and I tore them when I tried to smooth them back into place. The second one was no better but it was surprising how different the two crusts looked from each other – but both really crummy with tears, misshapen lumpy sides etc. (I saved these crusts – but what I am going to do with them, I don’t know. No-bake Banana cream pudding pie? Feed them to the birds/possum/skunk/squirrels?)

Luckily, I had two other crusts and I abandoned the blind baking effort, filled the crusts with the pumpkin mixture and crimped some foil around the edge. I put the pies on the metal pizza pans and moved them to the bottom rack at 400 for 20 minutes, then the middle rack at 350 for an hour more. This actually worked out pretty well. The bottom crusts were lightly browned and not gummy.

Things I learned for the next round of pies: Rice as pie weights. Pennies! No weights but doing the gentle press of the bubbles at the halfway point of the process. A sheet of printing paper. BR’s description of cutting the large sheet of foil for a browning shield instead of the clumsy strips that I try to use.

Also chilling the crust well, which I usually skip in the rush to get the pies into the oven. And wrapping the pie completely with foil like JustJoan suggests.

I have one final thought. It seems there is a big difference between:

a. baking the crust just a little bit to give the crust a head start before filling and then continuing to bake, as for pumpkin pie...

and...

b. baking the crust completely and later filling with a filling that is not baked. It would take quite a bit longer to bake the crust through completely.

I like having the range of options in this thread to work with depending on the circumstances.

THANKS VERY MUCH, everyone who replied!

--Joy, ready for round two, third week in December!

Joy,

I think you are on to something with the part about not having chilled dough. This is really key. I am no expert at pies, so I follow the admonitions from Cook's Illustrated -- chilled butter and shortening to start with, vodka and water that have been, respectively, in the freezer and fridge before incorporating into the dough.

Then, there are several times the dough is chilled after it is made -- as long as possible as a 4" disk (several hours is best, I have found, for their "foolproof pie dough"), again after it is rolled out and placed in the pan, and once more prior to blind baking. I know that sounds excessive, but it's really important to avoid "slumpage."

I did use the pie weights for the first half of the baking time, as called for in the recipe, for my pecan pie crust. You then remove the weights and foil for more baking prior to filling.

For your leftover crust, I am having visions of this deep-fried cannoli treat my neighbors serve at parties -- I thought the gargantuan shell was "decor," but oh no -- it is deep-fried nirvana! You break off pieces for noshing after all the desserts have been served and you're just hanging out at the table. So maybe, you could flash-fry big pieces of the pie dough, dip/coat them in a bit of semisweet or dark chocolate, dust them with confectioner's sugar and call them something fancy? Just an evil thought ...

Or pulse it a few times in the food processor and use it to top a crumble or cobbler...

I used this silicon-handled pie weight last week for the first time. It worked like a charm.