mgmcewen wrote:You know I didn't even realize this until today, but I think season ticket holders pay more for their tickets than same day ticket holders. Which is a bit crazy. It's like the opposite of a CSA or a kickstarter, where people who invest upfront pay less for dedicating their money in advance.

For example our vegan menu for four was 893.09 minus 312 for wine, which came out to 145.24 per person just for the food. Same night dinner only tickets were $125 for that day

The same night prices are before gratuity and tax; for 2012 and 2013 season ticket holders did receive a discount versus same night prices.

My feeling about Next was that they had a brilliant idea which has slipped away. Unlike many forms of art, which have canonical works that can be viewed, played, or performed over and over again, in most cases chefs do not produce the dishes of their colleagues again and again. The Escoffier Dinner (Paris 1906) was a brilliant idea. And the original plan seemed to be that Next would move back and forth in history (e.g. Sicily 1949; Bangkok 2035). This would mean that in the tradition of Chrono-Cuisine, the great moments of cuisine would not be lost. I was pleased with the idea of the El Bulli dinner (although I might have handled it somewhat differently). The most recent successes were the luscious Paul Bocuse dishes from the Bocuse D'or dinner (the other dishes were Chef Beran's modernist cuisine, which were not really different in style from what one might get elsewhere - not bad, but it missed the sense of time and place). The Vegan dinner (which I found relatively unimpressive) and The Hunt (which had high points) also missed this sense of time and place. Perhaps the Achatz 2004 dinner will have some of this, but one can still eat his cuisine at Alinea without having to tie up one's money for a year.

I would love it if Next made its specialty the creation of great dishes and meals. How often can we eat the creations of Careme, Soltner, Banchet, or Szathmary, unless someone is willing to provide these dishes.

I should note in response to some of the comments that I have always found the service at Next to be admirable, a fine mix of the formal and the casual.

GAF wrote:I should note in response to some of the comments that I have always found the service at Next to be admirable, a fine mix of the formal and the casual.

Do you mean to say that the umpteenth time you were told "We're going to have some fun" it seemed casual?

In The Office prior to my Bocuse meal, our server approached me and said that line. I was mortified. And it might have been the moment at which I realized it truly had become a machine going through motions. Robotic.

Going up for dinner, when Alex approached the table (truth be told, I will miss this guy. He is great.) I preemptively begged him not to say it.

An email (and Facebook post) from Next indicates that they expect 250-300 season ticket packages to be available tomorrow.

If I recall correctly, two years ago I was one of the last subscribers at number 1070. Perhaps in time Next will become more like Elizabeth or El Ideas (and Alinea) in which one can purchase tickets for a meal a month or two in advance.

what time do you think that the tickets will go on sale tomorrow?

You can find out tomorrow on Next's Facebook page (and perhaps their Twitter feed).

I wonder what fraction of the 2012 subscribers (who got season tickets during the 1 minute frenzy on a Saturday morning in late 2011 when they were available) have renewed for 2014. No way Kokonas will reveal that, but it would be some indication of persistence in customers. The Facebook page is much less active is one indication and there were tickets for the Vegan menu that stayed on the website longer than usual.

I renewed at the same night and pairings for next year and the total cost increased by 37% from 2013. I had some issues with each of the meals last year, but somehow the memories of the early menus and the novelty of having the menu only available for 3 months made me renew. But given the substantial cost increase and some less than stellar dishes (too much salt was a recurring problem in the Kyoto, Vegan and Bocuse menus), this will likely be my last year unless the food and experience is substantially better.

I always saw Next more as an experiment than anything else... can ticketing work? Will rotating menus work? Will customers buy into wild concepts like... well, Childhood is probably the only one that was out of the ordinary and not traditional. People who read and post and contribute here are much more informed and are less into the hype than 90% of the people who eat there. That's not to say that they think they hit the jackpot and are just milking it for all it's worth. I'm sure they still believe in the product and the concept and will run the restaurant 100% to the best of their ability. But most people forgive or ignore service issues because hey, wow, I'm at a Grant Achatz restaurant! Or this is their first and continues to be their only exposure to "fine dining" (Paris arguably was mine). As long as Phil Vettel keeps giving them 4 stars and as long as all these other factors remain, these guys could do a menu exploring Dog Food or McDonalds 1964 and it would sell out in 3 seconds.

Anything critical being posted here would get you run off the Facebook page, although I admit I haven't been following them on facebook or twitter since El Bulli. The amount of people who suck up to Achatz and Kokonas on FB and Twitter is pretty funny to me but maybe I don't realize that this happens to others in the restaurant industry as well, but it definitely proves the "can't do wrong" attitude.

This thread isn't even about the food and it will probably have more posts than all of the 2014 Next threads combined.

As of 4:39 p.m. today (Monday December 9th) Next season tickets are available for those who had not been subscribers:

We are pleased to announce that Next season tickets are available.... please note we have roundly 370 sets of tickets available. Fridays and Saturdays are nearly sold out to renewals...

I got in on the El Bulli/Sicily/Kyoto run but didn't bother 2013. Had 2014 in my cart and just couldn't pull the trigger on something like this. Too many issues with prepaying that much in advance and has others have stated, more expensive as well. I don't mind the ticket system, hell, I have booked with Elizabeth and Alinea in the last two months using it, but it's too much for me to have wrapped up in meals I might not be able to attend. Hoping to get back to Next at some point for Trio or China, but only if they do pescotarian substitutions for my wife.

Very interesting that Nick Kokonas initially posted that he expected 200 to 250 season tickets to be available after previous season ticket holders had the opportunity to renew; yesterday afternoon when the leftover season tickets became available for everybody he announced 370 sets of tickets were available. As of now there are still season tickets for sale on Next's website. Not only did far less people renew than he expected, but the supply of the leftover tickets exceeded the initial demand. A definite sign that Next has become overpriced.

Gonzo70 wrote:Very interesting that Nick Kokonas initially posted that he expected 200 to 250 season tickets to be available after previous season ticket holders had the opportunity to renew; yesterday afternoon when the leftover season tickets became available for everybody he announced 370 sets of tickets were available.

Just out of idle curiosity (because I am not a Next customer and never will be)…The approximately 120-170 season tickets that the restaurant expected to get renewed and weren't--what percentage of total season ticket holders does that represent? (I.e., if anybody knows, what is the total number of season ticket holders that Next had last year, so that we can gauge what percentage the 120-170 non-renewers account for? Conceivably they are an insignificant percentage, but conceivably they are quite a significant percentage.)

riddlemay wrote:

Gonzo70 wrote:Very interesting that Nick Kokonas initially posted that he expected 200 to 250 season tickets to be available after previous season ticket holders had the opportunity to renew; yesterday afternoon when the leftover season tickets became available for everybody he announced 370 sets of tickets were available.

Just out of idle curiosity (because I am not a Next customer and never will be)…The approximately 120-170 season tickets that the restaurant expected to get renewed and weren't--what percentage of total season ticket holders does that represent? (I.e., if anybody knows, what is the total number of season ticket holders that Next had last year, so that we can gauge what percentage the 120-170 non-renewers account for? Conceivably they are an insignificant percentage, but conceivably they are quite a significant percentage.)

Not certain, but I think I remember hearing that there were approximately 1,000 sets of season tickets sold last year. If that number is accurate then Nick was expecting 75% to 80% to renew, but only 63% renewed.

There are still some season tickets available. I think they sold out quicker last here.

Yeah, I think the combination of overpriced tickets and uninteresting menus might be catching up to them a bit. They just posted this on facebook:

Wednesday: 2-tops, 4-tops
Thursday: 2-tops, 4-tops, 6-tops (The KT)
Friday: Sold Out
Saturday: Sold Out
Sunday: 2-tops, 4-tops

I'm going to play the contrarian here. Next is clearly evolving as a restaurant, and that seems to have ruffled a few feathers. My first trip there was for the Hunt, but from menus from prior iterations I've seen it appears that they are getting a little longer and more involved – and thus (defensibly or not) more expensive. My hunch is that they’ve given Chef Beran more control and his menus are trending to the longer form chef’s tastings a la his alma mater, Alinea.

We’re also seeing some evolution in the hype: back when Next opened, the buzz was so huge that season tickets could sell out in 11 seconds or whatever. But with time, the (likely unsustainable) hype has subsided. Nick has mentioned that their model was based on a theater subscription. Think about it that way: you have a small group of “die-hards” that buy subscriptions year after year, another group that buys a subscription on a given year based on the show schedule, and the rest who buy tickets to individual shows as they see fit. And that seems to be what’s happening at Next – given the availability of season ticket subscriptions, there was some significant turnover and they may not even sell all their allotted subscriptions. That’s probably a good thing.

I bought season tickets in 2013 because that seemed the best way to secure a reservation. I renewed for 2014 because I’m actually excited by the three menu options (apparently I’m in the minority there), but I did a quick double-take at the cost and I’m not crazy about making dining commitments for 11 months from now. I’m not sure if I’ll renew for 2015 or not, but it would be great if I didn't feel like I had to renew for my only shot at getting a reservation to a specific menu or two.

For the record, I guess I’m also in the minority in that I really enjoy the dining experience – the room, vibe, and service – at Next. In my five visits I've never left regretting my purchase or didn't have a fine evening.

I've really enjoyed most of my Next dinners - some I've absolutely loved - but what has kept me away from the last two menus is the declining level of service. I just don't think the service is anywhere near where it needs to be for this price point. So while I always find their creativity and tastes worth exploring, I'm sitting back waiting to hear about the service and whether it improves. If I hear positive reports, I might just give one or all of the 2014 menus a try. I'd like to.

"In fact this year we expanded the season ticket sales as a percentage of overall tickets and renewal percentage is higher than last year by 8%."

Thus, Mr. Kokonas on renewals. Sounds dubious, at best, to me, but hey, I'm no mathematician. Still: his estimate of available season passes rose from 200-250 to 370 (in part, presumably, because he's cannibalizing his other sales) and his renewal percentage still rose?

And to ReddiWhipSmart: I'm with BR on service. But it's a perfect storm of numerous things that turned us away: service/staff turnover/training, room, prices, menus for 2014.... Chef Beran is terrific and for that we are sorry to be missing this year. We have had every menu except Childhood. So I think we've got a pretty good context. We've had a couple days now to live with our decision--and we're both content. Your experience has been different and that's great: here's hoping you enjoy the year to come as much as you've enjoyed what's preceded it.

I have been to 2 dinners at Next, and enjoyed both (Thai and El Bulli). Just today a friend of mine who has really been wanting to go ended up getting the season tickets 4 top that I went in on with him, as I actually think the 2014 menus sound interesting. That being said, here is the breakdown in cost for 1 ticket on a Wednesday night at 6 pm for each menu (with no added beverages) - determined after the purchases by him:

Chicago Steak - $205

Chinese Modern - $159

Trio 2004 - $324

The price point now to me seems ridiculously high, especially when this is not including drinks (and on the presumably lower volume day and time of a Wednesday at 6 pm). I have to say that it is unlikely I will think the food and experience will equal the cost of the tickets. That being said, I will probably go to one or even two, since we now have the tickets, but after that, unless I leave feeling like it was one of the better dining events of my life, I am sure there are better price-point dining high dining options that I can have around town. But it seems like Next still has enough ticket sales to keep charging what they do (and I guess I am one of those people helping to keep it going).

borborigmy wrote:I have been to 2 dinners at Next, and enjoyed both (Thai and El Bulli). Just today a friend of mine who has really been wanting to go ended up getting the season tickets 4 top that I went in on with him, as I actually think the 2014 menus sound interesting. That being said, here is the breakdown in cost for 1 ticket on a Wednesday night at 6 pm for each menu (with no added beverages) - determined after the purchases by him:

Chicago Steak - $205

Chinese Modern - $159

Trio 2004 - $324

The price point now to me seems ridiculously high, especially when this is not including drinks (and on the presumably lower volume day and time of a Wednesday at 6 pm). I have to say that it is unlikely I will think the food and experience will equal the cost of the tickets. That being said, I will probably go to one or even two, since we now have the tickets, but after that, unless I leave feeling like it was one of the better dining events of my life, I am sure there are better price-point dining high dining options that I can have around town. But it seems like Next still has enough ticket sales to keep charging what they do (and I guess I am one of those people helping to keep it going).

The development of higher end BYO places like goosefoot and EL ideas where the fixed menus are cheaper than these (or maybe about equal to Chinese Modern after tax+tip) has made the escalating prices of Next harder to swallow. The Steak menu on weekends is getting close to what Grace costs (for the food portion). And the all or nothing nature of the drink add-ons has made that cost seem exorbitant. $90 after t+t for NA pairings seems excessive, even if they are interesting drinks. I wonder what fraction of people stick with water after choosing that with the tickets - from my experience it seems low and I often give in and order a pairing once there, so it justifies keeping that model. And they've quit leaving bottles on the table so their alcohol costs have probably gone down a bit (plus they didn't have any collaboration beers with Half Acre this past year like they did for Thai and el Bulli).

For Bocuse, a person I dined with did not want to do the full pairing and asked if it was possible to just do a glass or two of wine. She was told they are beginning to experiment with offering single glasses and they would accommodate.

I wasn't handling the check, but I did take a look and I believe the charge for two generous glasses (with one refill) was $25....not 100% sure of the accuracy on that, but it was definitely lower than I expected.

Next has definitely priced themselves to the point where supply far exceeds demand with their ludicrous pricing for a steak dinner (nearly $600 for a couple with beverage pairing). Tickets have been on sale since late afternoon yesterday and as of now there are still tables open for every night - often 10+ tables. Even opening night, Valentine's day and Saturdays all have good availability. What is funny is tweets from the dress rehearsal dinner appear to indicate there are more seafood courses than steak courses (just one steak course). I think I will enjoy a nice aged prime steak at Bavettes AND at Burke's this winter, order what I want, have at least equal quality food, service & ambiance and come out saving $$$. Will be interesting to see how Next handles not selling out most nights and what spin comes out regarding alleged increased demand.

I'm not sure how I missed this thread...always love a good Next discussion.

I still love the place. They make me happy and I am always surprised, delighted, and full with a smile by the end of the meal. I've enjoyed every menu that I've been to. Started at Sicily (which remains my favorite so far), and have done every one since. I thought that some of the food at Kyoto was not for me (loved the story, vibe, and midwestern accenting however). I also wished for wines by the glass or cocktails as well. But I largely love it there.

No one needs to go out and spend this kind of money on a meal, we can eat what we need to eat to sustain ourselves at home. If I sat down and added up the cost of the ingredients and the wages for the staff I am sure I would scratch my head to find the differential in the ticket cost, but for me that differential is the harmony of enjoyment, pleasure and entertainment that I treat myself to a couple of times a year.

I'm not going to abdicate Grant and Nick because for me their restaurants are what literally got me interested in being in a community of people who dine out in this fashion - and the food is still tasty. This isn't everyone's story, but it's mine. The added benefit of friendships and knowledge that I have gotten via their places as being the genesis is worth it. And I am not even rolling with the big boys - there are people that I know who've dined at Alinea twenty times, two or three for every next menu, The Office twice a week. I'm just a loyal guest who has fun at dinner and drinks. For 2014, it's still worth it for me.

I agree Gonzo70. Steak is a perfect example of diminishing marginal returns on dining. The difference between an average grocery store steak and something at Bavette's is very high, but after that, the differences diminish. I can't imagine the steak at Next would be more special than the steak at Bavette's in a way that would justify the price difference. The other Next meals that I appreciated more were far more unique and special.

These tickets have definitely remained onsale longer than any other menu I can recall. The prices have gotten much higher than when they began and they no longer offer lower prices for dining early or late. It's now $212 per person to dine on a Wednesday night (after 9 pm) with no drink pairings ($342 each with standard alcohol pairings). And it's $415 each to have the reserve pairings on a Saturday night. Paris with standard alcohol pairings at a decent time on a weeknight was $188 each. Sicily and Kyoto were $206 with standard alcohol pairings on weeknights. The Hunt and Vegan were $126 without pairings on weeknights. Maybe the Steak menu will get raves and justify the price (and offer some interesting seafood), but there seem to be an excess number of places to get great steaks in Chicago already. It will be interesting to see if they ever lower prices for the late night tables that are remaining available. Especially for the Wed/Thurs/Sun tables where people aren't likely to come from out of town.

The Trib had an article today about the economists at Northwestern who are trying to design pricing systems for retailers to earn more money for their product, with a few comments from Kokonas. One interesting feature is that ticketing allows customers to see how many tables are still available. Open Table gives some idea for other restaurants, but this gives a better idea of how each menu is selling.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... 037.column

I suspect interested buyers with some flexibility will be able to easily pick up any of these dinners for under face value from desperate sellers who can't make their date.

Ends up I will be dining for this menu, as part of a birthday celebration. I do suspect that a tipping point has been hit with the increased prices driving a decrease in demand and the number of tables still available however. Also for me, I am not a huge drinker to start with, but I can no longer order the beverage pairings at Next with the meals- its just too much wine for me and at ~130 bucks with tax and tip, that's steep when all I could responsibly handle is a glass of wine with dinner, maybe an after dinner cocktail if I was getting crazy. Its a respectable chunk of change at $206 per person for a Wednesday night. Were it not for the fact its for a celebration I don't know I would have pulled the trigger- I could hit both a steakhouse and Elizabeth for a weeknight menu for the same amount of money. This town just has too many great restaurants to experience to tie up such a large piece of my dining fun money upfront at one place.

edithpiaf wrote:Ends up I will be dining for this menu, as part of a birthday celebration. I do suspect that a tipping point has been hit with the increased prices driving a decrease in demand and the number of tables still available however. Also for me, I am not a huge drinker to start with, but I can no longer order the beverage pairings at Next with the meals- its just too much wine for me and at ~130 bucks with tax and tip, that's steep when all I could responsibly handle is a glass of wine with dinner, maybe an after dinner cocktail if I was getting crazy. Its a respectable chunk of change at $206 per person for a Wednesday night. Were it not for the fact its for a celebration I don't know I would have pulled the trigger- I could hit both a steakhouse and Elizabeth for a weeknight menu for the same amount of money. This town just has too many great restaurants to experience to tie up such a large piece of my dining fun money upfront at one place.

They're now doing glasses of wine by request...search upthread. Someone had 2 glasses for $25.

That's great news Royal- thanks for the tip! Will report back on that when I go....

You bet! And I agree, it's great news. I love the idea of pairings, but I always hate them the next morning. I'm petering out on the flights and I'd rather just enjoy one really nice white and one really nice red - or juices or even just water sometimes!