borborigmy wrote:

Past meals at Next have been more playful. This meal was not. I think, at the core, that is the big issue with this menu. They are not serving up anything you cannot get somewhere else.

Do you think this is "pandering" to the more risk-averse population or something? I was really expecting them to have a shrimp cocktail redone to be a sphere of liquid nitrogen treated shrimp flavored with horseradish in it or something. Is it just a big shrimp with some cocktail sauce? That would really be lame for a Next meal.

From a conversation I had with Nick I think he (and some of the team) felt as though no Chicago venues do a classic steakhouse "right" (his words, not mine nor my opinion) and that instead of a modern interpretation/utilization of modern techniques, his vision for this menu was to serve classic steakhouse dishes the way he feels they should be done. Not necessarily a bad idea, but the problem is that I (and I think many) feel that Chicago does have some outstanding steakhouses and at this price point a lot of people are going to be unhappy with typical steakhouse cuisine (even if good quality and well prepared) - especially throwing in the anti-customer policies such as no substitutions and non-refundable tickets. For a lot less money I can order exactly what I want and receive outstanding cuisine at Dave Burke's or Bavettes, and have better ambiance (and likely better service). I also can have a nice a la carte drink menu (I am still not sure if Next is consistently offering drinks by the glass). A modern take on a steakhouse with deconstructions would have been interesting, but that is not what Nick's vision was for this menu (El Ideas by the way had a really cool and delicious deconstructed shrimp cocktail course a while back). I wonder with the Modern Chinese menu if Next will steer back to modernist technique; if not the same problem will arise - not a lot of people want to shell out big dollars for their interpretation of how typical Chinese dishes should be prepared.

Gonzo70 wrote:

borborigmy wrote:

Past meals at Next have been more playful. This meal was not. I think, at the core, that is the big issue with this menu. They are not serving up anything you cannot get somewhere else.

Do you think this is "pandering" to the more risk-averse population or something? I was really expecting them to have a shrimp cocktail redone to be a sphere of liquid nitrogen treated shrimp flavored with horseradish in it or something. Is it just a big shrimp with some cocktail sauce? That would really be lame for a Next meal.

From a conversation I had with Nick I think he (and some of the team) felt as though no Chicago venues do a classic steakhouse "right" (his words, not mine nor my opinion) and that instead of a modern interpretation/utilization of modern techniques, his vision for this menu was to serve classic steakhouse dishes the way he feels they should be done. Not necessarily a bad idea, but the problem is that I (and I think many) feel that Chicago does have some outstanding steakhouses and at this price point a lot of people are going to be unhappy with typical steakhouse cuisine (even if good quality and well prepared) - especially throwing in the anti-customer policies such as no substitutions and non-refundable tickets. For a lot less money I can order exactly what I want and receive outstanding cuisine at Dave Burke's or Bavettes, and have better ambiance (and likely better service). I also can have a nice a la carte drink menu (I am still not sure if Next is consistently offering drinks by the glass). A modern take on a steakhouse with deconstructions would have been interesting, but that is not what Nick's vision was for this menu (El Ideas by the way had a really cool and delicious deconstructed shrimp cocktail course a while back). I wonder with the Modern Chinese menu if Next will steer back to modernist technique; if not the same problem will arise - not a lot of people want to shell out big dollars for their interpretation of how typical Chinese dishes should be prepared.

It would be neat if next looks to the techniques of Alvin Leung a-la Bo Innovation. Or anyone else doing classic flavors but modern techniques that I'm not aware of. That would be a super awesome treat. I have a feeling that could actually happen. I highly doubt they will be doing stuff like Mission Chinese or David Chang. With the parameters of Modern Chinese, however, anything can happen. Grant's sensibilities lend very well to not only French cooking, but Asian cooking as well. He most often tends to showcase his leanings to Japanese food, but he has talked about loving Asian cuisine in general so it will be interesting to see if that permeates through on this menu. I always wonder, as far as menu development, whether to assign more influence to Dave or Grant, or even Eric Rivera (he is the one who comes across many of these amazing ingredients). We all know what to expect with Trio, which I personally am looking forward to, but Modern Chinese leaves the most room for interpretation.

As I understand it though, it's more than just Nick who wanted to do their take on a Chicago steakhouse which I am sure you are aware of. I talked to some friends (several parties) last night who dined for Steak and there is apparently more than what is on that menu ticket.

Royal Lichter wrote:As I understand it though, it's more than just Nick who wanted to do their take on a Chicago steakhouse which I am sure you are aware of. I talked to some friends (several parties) last night who dined for Steak and there is apparently more than what is on that menu ticket.

I will need to double check my menu ticket, but I am pretty sure that is true. What did they think of the meal overall?

I have to admit that it was weird being at Next with a bunch of empty tables.

From a conversation I had with Nick I think he (and some of the team) felt as though no Chicago venues do a classic steakhouse "right" (his words, not mine nor my opinion) and that instead of a modern interpretation/utilization of modern techniques, his vision for this menu was to serve classic steakhouse dishes the way he feels they should be done.

Personally I am quite disappointed with their idea that they can do a "better" Chicago classic steakhouse than some of the other great Chicago restaurants, given some of Next's limitations, as Gonzo70 has already pointed out. For me, the more successful themes in going to Next are either about interpretations of things that you can't typically get, either due to no one makes it anymore (like their Paris: 1906 or El Bulli) or due to geography (no real kaiseki restaurant in Chicago, the Bocuse d'Or). Just doing a straight ahead Chicago steakhouse is going to disappoint a lot of people who expect more in going to Next, me included. I do not necessarily want crazy modernist interpretations just for the sake of doing it, but I feel they have the creativity and skills to make a very memorable and different experience then you would have gotten otherwise. I was excited about going in a few weeks; now, I guess I am just going to have to lower my expectations to just expect a good steakhouse meal (which really has never been that exciting for me anyway, which is why I was kind of hoping for more from Next).

jbrady3324 wrote:I have to admit that it was weird being at Next with a bunch of empty tables.

I was wondering about whether it was noticeable. It appeared that they had around 32 seats available for last night, roughly 25% of the total seats for the night.

jbrady3324 wrote:

Royal Lichter wrote:As I understand it though, it's more than just Nick who wanted to do their take on a Chicago steakhouse which I am sure you are aware of. I talked to some friends (several parties) last night who dined for Steak and there is apparently more than what is on that menu ticket.

I will need to double check my menu ticket, but I am pretty sure that is true. What did they think of the meal overall?

I have to admit that it was weird being at Next with a bunch of empty tables.

All three separate parties that I talked to said that it was an incredible meal. They raved fairly well about it. Everyone agreed that it was a lot of food and more than what they expected.

Royal Lichter wrote:

jbrady3324 wrote:

Royal Lichter wrote:As I understand it though, it's more than just Nick who wanted to do their take on a Chicago steakhouse which I am sure you are aware of. I talked to some friends (several parties) last night who dined for Steak and there is apparently more than what is on that menu ticket.

I will need to double check my menu ticket, but I am pretty sure that is true. What did they think of the meal overall?

I have to admit that it was weird being at Next with a bunch of empty tables.

All three separate parties that I talked to said that it was an incredible meal. They raved fairly well about it. Everyone agreed that it was a lot of food and more than what they expected.

Interesting. I will agree with the a lot of food part, but ~$300 for standard dishes than taste exactly as you expect with a few twists doesn't do it for me. I am glad that they liked the meal though. Like I said, it is not a BAD meal. It is very good, I just, and I think most people, expect more from Next

I am in no way, by the way, advocating that this is a meal that is reasonably priced. It is definitely expensive, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I am real excited to get my family of four (two of who are fine-dining averse) to next for a really tasty meal. Normally they wouldn't want to go, now, they have an interest to go because it's steak and approachable from their perspective. I renewed season tickets because on the whole I still personally felt a value. So I'm a unique case. Some others may not see a value, which everyone is entitled to their own assessment of.

This was posted today. http://www.chicagobeststeak.com/blog/20 ... long-time/

I had an amazing steak dinner at Keen's Steakhouse in NYC Tuesday night with a great wine (1992 Ridge Monte Bello), dry aged porterhouse for three, started with lobster bisque, then roquefort wedge salad, and with the steak, creamed spinach and hashed brown potatoes. Give me that any day over what I'm reading here.

No wonder 1/4 of the tables were empty.

The funny thing about Grant Achatz mocking someone on twitter for requesting "no red meat" to this menu is that only one course has red meat... what a jackass.

editttttt

Here is one of the first online reviews I have seen about Next's Chicago Steakhouse - click on the slideshow to see the entire meal if you don't mind spoilers:

Serious Eats Chicago

I'd be happy if the idea of having to get season tickets to guarantee a table at Next was a thing of the past.

Part of the ticket availability has to be due to price increase. If tickets were half their cost Next would have another sell out. And I understand while those who dined at Paris and Thai may lament that those prices are also a thing of the past, from an economic standpoint, the price escalation seems like a foregone conclusion; Demand was way too high at those price points. (Also, I don't think this is a case of pure price-gouging. From reviewing the menus and what's been reported elsewhere, it appears the cost to Next for their offerings has increased since Paris).

It is newsworthy for them, so the "Has Next lost it's luster???" stories will make the rounds. And there may be a grain of truth there, but the report of Next's death is an exaggeration; especially if you are looking for a table of two and wish to dine before 9:30.

I, for one, think it's a really, really good evolution to be able to make a reservation at Next without having to luckily be near your computer when tickets go on sale or win the daily Facebook table lottery.

What's more cynical: charging 15 times the cost of a meal at TAC or Sticky and saying it's worth it for the ingredients and technique (pshawing any claim that it was all gringoed down), or charging twice the cost of a meal at David Burke or Bavette's and saying the same thing (while basically asserting there are no real/good steak places in Chicago)? Both menus seem not to add any wonder or delight to a familiar experience, letting people down the same way. But it feels as if more criticism is aimed at the American steakhouse virtuosity display. I'd bet it's actually a better deal if not a better experience.

I generally admire almost everything Achatz and team do, but Next hasn't made sense to me since Paris. Disclaimer: Next is the one Achatz place I have never visited. All I know about it is from LTH.

I'll be going on January 23rd (still have two seats available at a Chef's table), so I'll be sure to share my impressions. I will say that when I dined there for the Bocuse D'or menu, I left a bit unimpressed and disappointed, which was the first time I have walked away with that impression since the beginning of their menus. Hopefully, Steakhouse will not continue that trend, but reading the comments of prior diners, I had hoped they would have put more of their spin on things instead of hewing closer to the traditional line.

Talk about throwing some shade....

I'm going in February and I cannot wait. I've never been to Next and I love steak. Unfortunately the steak houses in Chicago fall short. I have a steak club and monthly we go to a new steak restaurant and I've never been more disappointed then recent trips to both David Burke's (bring back the old chef and some salt) and Bavette's. I am hoping for the ultimate experience and where else can I get that, at a price of course, then Next.

So, is the American steakhouse simply dead and this really is a time machine - maybe back to the '80s or the Wolf of Wallstreet era or whatever? Because if it's dead here, and dead in NY where people seem to throw around the same criticism, where might it be alive? Dallas? Almost all of the old venerable Texas spots have become chains.

By the way, one could fly to Tampa and eat steak at Bern's and possibly pay less than Next Steak. Bern's is silly cheap for that sort of place.

The Serious Eats review nails it: "Steakhouses are all about choice. You choose the cut, size, age (sometimes) and temperature."

Next is unabashedly anti-choice; You are getting they steak they want to serve you, what they deem is the perfect "Chicago Steak" (and just to rub it in, they are going to cut it for you too). Any comparison between Next's "Chicago Steak" and any other steakhouse (Chicago or otherwise) falls apart right there, and that's before the subject of cost even comes up.

JeffB wrote:So, is the American steakhouse simply dead and this really is a time machine - maybe back to the '80s or the Wolf of Wallstreet era or whatever? Because if it's dead here, and dead in NY where people seem to throw around the same criticism, where might it be alive? Dallas? Almost all of the old venerable Texas spots have become chains.

By the way, one could fly to Tampa and eat steak at Bern's and possibly pay less than Next Steak. Bern's is silly cheap for that sort of place.

C'mon. Is not the answer obvious?

My favorite steakhouse is probably Gene and Georgetti's, but my go-to dish there is chicken, with liver for a change of pace. The two very best steak experiences I've ever had were 1) when I had the kobe tasting menu @ Craftsteak and 2) dinner @ Carnevino. Both Vegas meals combined amazing meats with a full range of satisfying sides and accouterments. Pricey, for sure, but what do they say. Vegas baby...

What irritates me more than anything is that season tickets no longer mean anything. They dont get you priority into the Aviary (which they used to, and upon going without a reservation last week was told they dont do anything) and they arent cheaper (that I know of) than buying menus a la cart. Next needs to do something to make people who buy season tickets, who you would think would be their target marker, feel like they are getting something extra.

It can be said that season ticket holders have access to the last menu but in my oppinion thats not enough. Have a complimentary cocktail night somewhere as a way of saying thanks provide an extra course or wine or taste to season ticket holders... do something

It can be said that season ticket holders have access to the last menu but in my oppinion thats not enough. Have a complimentary cocktail night somewhere as a way of saying thanks provide an extra course or wine or taste to season ticket holders... do something

I like the idea of Next doing something special for season ticket holders, but it might be difficult for them to truly reward the ones with actual season tickets since so many people seem to sell at least one of the dining themes to other people. There could be a work around where they ask for the ID of the season ticket holder to truly reward those people or their table, but that seems a logistical nightmare to me. The best idea may be that the season ticket holders get a complimentary drink at Aviary or something (maybe 1 per 2 top, 2 per 4 top, etc) and you just have to show your email confirmation or something. But if they haven't done it yet, I bet it ain't happenin'. And one could argue that your "reward" is simply that you get the guarantee of experiencing all 3 or 4 themes that year, although that seems to be less and less of a reward.

bhovsepian wrote:What irritates me more than anything is that season tickets no longer mean anything. They dont get you priority into the Aviary (which they used to, and upon going without a reservation last week was told they dont do anything) and they arent cheaper (that I know of) than buying menus a la cart. Next needs to do something to make people who buy season tickets, who you would think would be their target marker, feel like they are getting something extra.

It can be said that season ticket holders have access to the last menu but in my oppinion thats not enough. Have a complimentary cocktail night somewhere as a way of saying thanks provide an extra course or wine or taste to season ticket holders... do something

When my wife and I dined there they never acknowledged we were season ticket holders. In fact, every visit they asked us if it was our first time dining there. I was always surprised by that.

PopcornMegaphone wrote:When my wife and I dined there they never acknowledged we were season ticket holders. In fact, every visit they asked us if it was our first time dining there. I was always surprised by that.

That's pretty telling, eh?

As i've mentioned, while I loved our Next meal - Childhood - I was not impressed with the service and missed the really charming team who waited on my group at Moto for example, who really shared the pleasure of the meal and made us feel so welcome.

It's VERY telling.

I always heard stories about a crazy robust database they had of all of the diners.

On my third visit (in four or five menus) I was pretty surprised that I didnt even get a welcome back.
Maybe three visits doesn't get you a "welcome back"?

It seems trivial, but the some of the magic of the place was how special it initially felt.

My wife and I RAVED about the service at our first menu, and how special they made us feel. It was Paris, we were near the door, and she shivered, someone showed up with a shawl. It blew us away. By the time we got to the third menu, little touches like that were non-existent (at least for us)

Dont get me started on Aviary "tickets"

ReddiWhipSmart wrote:The Serious Eats review nails it: "Steakhouses are all about choice. You choose the cut, size, age (sometimes) and temperature."

They could have 2-4 different cuts and have people choose when they parade the meat cart out early in the meal. This also would give an opportunity to confirm cooking temperature.

Still 10 tables, 38 seats available tonight.

I hope that Nick is reading this thread (and the Alinea thread). I still think that Next is an excellent and iconic restaurant (even though I did not renew for this year) and Alinea is still the best restaurant in Chicago (although perhaps no longer a competitor for best restaurant in the world), but the issues that are raised (including the disappointments of last year's menus at Next) should provide a red flag. It is always tempting to expand the brand, but these threads reveal the dangers when focus is lost. Some (not all) of the thrill is gone. I guess it is like Trotters by the 2000s.

jawbox wrote:
Still 10 tables, 38 seats available tonight.

38 seats for tonight on the website and they also put 12 same day tickets on Facebook (at $10 higher than the website price) but these mostly overlap seats already on the website.

Hopped Up wrote:

jawbox wrote:
Still 10 tables, 38 seats available tonight.

38 seats for tonight on the website and they also put 12 same day tickets on Facebook (at $10 higher than the website price) but these mostly overlap seats already on the website.

Someone might be monitoring the thread, or they realized the mistake.

The same nights are now $160 pp

For anyone that has done Chicago Steak:

Curious to know what the single bottles that are being offered are. I may want to treat my family to one in when we go in and pay for it ahead of time.