Jazzfood wrote:I believe the new pastry chef may be Natalie Zarzour. Was told by a reliable source that she's working there, although not certain in what capacity.

Yes, it is her.

Interesting combo.

I wish they'd ditch the miracle berry schtick.

disagree wrote:I wish they'd ditch the miracle berry schtick.

Not going to happen; that is the cornerstone of the concept of iNG and Chef Cantu is a huge proponent of the potential of Miracle Berries to become more mainstream (and hopes to introduce them elsewhere). The current menu does not rely as heavily on them (one could easily do without them for the seven savory dishes), so if you are not a fan of the berry this menu should be a fine option. While some dislike the Miracle Berry concept; it is a draw for many others. iNG has gone back to the tablet version of the Miracle Berry rather than the powder which I feel is a big plus; less messy, easy to consume and easier to fully coat one's tongue and thereby have a more noticeable impact.

iNG's current menu revolves around craft beer and for the first time ever they are offering Sunday brunch (brunch will run during the craft beer menu - so likely for a couple months). The menu is not so much modernist cuisine but typical brunch fare that is elevated and well executed; Chef Havidic created the menu. The brunch menu ties in with the dinner menu in that many of the dishes have beer as an ingredient.

I ate brunch at iNG today and it was excellent; entrees run $12 to $16 and are generous portions (I have enough leftovers for a second meal tomorrow). I ordered the chicken with sour dough waffles (the waffles are made a craft beer batter and were really moist and flavorful) and are topped with a half a roasted chicken with a maple glaze. My wife had biscuits and gravy that had homemade biscuits and lots of chunks of delicious chorizo and braised pig face in the gravy. The Bloody Mary's may have been the best part; really spicy and made with chorizo infused vodka. Definitely one of the better Bloody's I have consumed. It was accompanied by a Pipeworks Ninja vs. Unicorns beer chaser.

Here is the menu:

*Smoked salmon with grilled scallions, sunny side up eggs, potato croquette and pale beurre monte
*Roasted chicken with kochujang, pilsner, maple syrup and a beer sour dough waffle
*Maple and stout breakfast sausage with red wine braised cabbage, caramelized onions and beer sourdough pancake noodles
*Orange and Oberon Beer French toast with beer butter cream and candied oranges
*Biscuits with chorizo and braised pig face, smoked pimenton gravy and braised greens
*House-made yogurt with beer-infused honey and granola
*Fresh fruit

In addition to the Bloody's there are Beer Mimosas, several craft beers, various n/a beverages and the full iNG bar menu is also available. This was an excellent brunch.

Gonzo70 wrote:iNG's current menu revolves around craft beer and for the first time ever they are offering Sunday brunch (brunch will run during the craft beer menu - so likely for a couple months). The menu is not so much modernist cuisine but typical brunch fare that is elevated and well executed; Chef Havidic created the menu. The brunch menu ties in with the dinner menu in that many of the dishes have beer as an ingredient.

I ate brunch at iNG today and it was excellent; entrees run $12 to $16 and are generous portions (I have enough leftovers for a second meal tomorrow). I ordered the chicken with sour dough waffles (the waffles are made a craft beer batter and were really moist and flavorful) and are topped with a half a roasted chicken with a maple glaze. My wife had biscuits and gravy that had homemade biscuits and lots of chunks of delicious chorizo and braised pig face in the gravy. The Bloody Mary's may have been the best part; really spicy and made with chorizo infused vodka. Definitely one of the better Bloody's I have consumed. It was accompanied by a Pipeworks Ninja vs. Unicorns beer chaser.

Here is the menu:

*Smoked salmon with grilled scallions, sunny side up eggs, potato croquette and pale beurre monte
*Roasted chicken with kochujang, pilsner, maple syrup and a beer sour dough waffle
*Maple and stout breakfast sausage with red wine braised cabbage, caramelized onions and beer sourdough pancake noodles
*Orange and Oberon Beer French toast with beer butter cream and candied oranges
*Biscuits with chorizo and braised pig face, smoked pimenton gravy and braised greens
*House-made yogurt with beer-infused honey and granola
*Fresh fruit

In addition to the Bloody's there are Beer Mimosas, several craft beers, various n/a beverages and the full iNG bar menu is also available. This was an excellent brunch.

Free from miracle berry gimmickry?

The miracle berry is far from a gimmick; the brunch does not utilize the miracle berry though.

Gonzo70 wrote:The miracle berry is far from a gimmick . . .

Say what?!

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:

Gonzo70 wrote:The miracle berry is far from a gimmick . . .

Say what?!

=R=

Ronnie,

Are you saying that using a product that radically changes the taste of everything that you eat is a gimmick? It's the 21st century. You have to start using Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and miracle berries for dinner parties at home. I exclusively serve miracle berries as a first for dinner parties. After that, raw onions. We also drink lots of boxed wine and everyone loves it!

deesher wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:

Gonzo70 wrote:The miracle berry is far from a gimmick . . .

Say what?!

=R=

Ronnie,

Are you saying that using a product that radically changes the taste of everything that you eat is a gimmick?

I'll say it if Ronnie won't.
It's amusing. It's new and different.
It's not a game changer, it's not particularly creative, it doesn't even taste that good.

Perhaps some on this forum have a different definition of a gimmick than I; to me a gimmick in a culinary sense is something that is an attention grabber - but does not do anything to enhance the taste of the food. For example the balloon course at Alinea I would consider a gimmick. I have enjoyed that course and it is whimsical, but eating taffy shaped like a balloon and filled with helium does not change the taste or elevate the cuisine - it is still just a piece of taffy.

The miracle berries are not meant to grab your attention, but are meant to make food healthier - and do so in a subtle manner. Chef Cantu is utilizing the miracle berry to greatly reduce the amount of added sugars used in desserts as well as sometimes for sweet components to savory courses (and also for the sweet component of some cocktails to lower calories/sugar). He is hoping that the miracle berry will gain wide acceptance and help combat obesity as well as make our diets healthier without having to sacrifice taste. It also has application for diabetics as well as certain other medical conditions and also application in some third world countries to make foods that are available and nutritious - but taste poor otherwise - palatable. To me this is not a gimmick but the miracle berry is doing something to enhance the food and make sweet foods healthier. It is also a noble cause and I do hope the berries become more widely accepted and utilized in the coming years (and am cautiously optimistic about this).

A small percentage of people do not receive a strong effect from miracle berries it seems - so it does not work for everybody, but it does for the vast majority. In my experience I have brought about 15 guests to iNG the past couple of years and only one person did not experience much of an effect. Some dishes that have used it have tasted better than others, but there have been some desserts that were relatively healthy thanks to the miracle berry that tasted just as good as the full sugar desserts they appeared to resemble. The last couple of menus I have found most of the desserts to be quite good and liked that I was consuming sweets without sugar or artificial sweeteners. I think over time the desserts made with miracle berries will only become better and better and more consistent.

I can't find any studies on variable reactions to miraculin, the active compound in miracle berries responsible for the "flavor tripping." Most studies I've read though have inconsistent results for "hedonic ratings" (how good it tastes vs. conventionally sweetened foods or beverages) so that might indicate this effect is in play. If it's genetic (like the soap taste in cilantro) it's going to vary from population to population. I have a strong hunch that it is, based on reactions my family has had to miracle berry, which is that almost all of us don't get a sweet taste from it, but instead taste a bitter almost metallic note. I suspect TAS1R2 is involved. If anyone else who has trouble with miraculin has genetic data from 23andme or elsewhere, that would be interesting.

The notion that miracle berries might have some practical societal applications doesn't persuade me that when they're served in this dining context, they're anything more than a gimmick.

If you want to serve a healthy dessert, it seems there are many less gimmicky ways to do so than by temporarily impairing the diners' tastebuds. That's where creativity, resourcefulness and skill come in.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:The notion that miracle berries might have some practical societal applications doesn't persuade me that when they're served in this dining context, they're anything more than a gimmick.

If you want to serve a healthy dessert, it seems there are many less gimmicky ways to do so than by temporarily impairing the diners' tastebuds. That's where creativity, resourcefulness and skill come in.

=R=

I have to respectfully disagree with you on that. To me that is akin to saying that coffee is a gimmick when used to provide an energy boost as there are more resourceful manners to increase energy such as exercise. The miracle berry does not temporarily "impair" taste buds, but temporarily alters the perception of sour to sweet. Sure one can make healthy/healthier desserts without the miracle berry, but what Chef Cantu is attempting to do is make everyday, typical, known desserts look and taste like the read deal, but be healthier (via no added sugar) and lower calorie without sacrificing taste or one's perceived experience (i.e. the diner is supposed to experience the dessert no differently than if they were eating regular ice cream, cake, cookies etc.). I recently took someone with diabetes to iNG and she was so thrilled to be able to consume the real desserts everyone else at the table was eating and loved all of them.

There definitely is creativity, resourcefulness and skill in play in creating foods that look and taste great without any added sugars because of the impact of the miracle berry. It is not that one just pops a miracle berry and suddenly all foods are healthy; new recipes have to be created that cause the foods to look and taste like familiar foods, but have the sweetness be derived from acidic components playing off the miracle berry's effects. This is no easy task.

While I get that not everybody has a positive experience with the miracle berry, I am not sure why anybody would be against something that enables most people to eat sinful, unhealthy foods that taste great and are much lower in calorie and without added sugars. Sure the execution has to be there - and there certainly have been some desserts at iNG that I have not cared for - but to me I just do not grasp how it is a "gimmick." The miracle berry is actually significantly changing the taste of what is being consumed; IMHO a gimmick is something merely for attention and/or presentation that has no discernible impact on the taste of the cuisine.

Gonzo70 wrote:While I get that not everybody has a positive experience with the miracle berry, I am not sure why anybody would be against something that enables most people to eat sinful, unhealthy foods that taste great and are much lower in calorie and without added sugars. Sure the execution has to be there - and there certainly have been some desserts at iNG that I have not cared for - but to me I just do not grasp how it is a "gimmick." The miracle berry is actually significantly changing the taste of what is being consumed; IMHO a gimmick is something merely for attention and/or presentation that has no discernible impact on the taste of the cuisine.

Just curious, as someone for whom this stuff makes everything taste like sad aluminum or something– do these desserts taste as good as the desserts at Moto or at a similar restaurant? Can they compete with real sugar?

mgmcewen wrote:

Gonzo70 wrote:While I get that not everybody has a positive experience with the miracle berry, I am not sure why anybody would be against something that enables most people to eat sinful, unhealthy foods that taste great and are much lower in calorie and without added sugars. Sure the execution has to be there - and there certainly have been some desserts at iNG that I have not cared for - but to me I just do not grasp how it is a "gimmick." The miracle berry is actually significantly changing the taste of what is being consumed; IMHO a gimmick is something merely for attention and/or presentation that has no discernible impact on the taste of the cuisine.

Just curious, as someone for whom this stuff makes everything taste like sad aluminum or something– do these desserts taste as good as the desserts at Moto or at a similar restaurant? Can they compete with real sugar?

I would not say they have been consistently at the level of Moto - but several of the desserts at iNG have been excellent (there have also been some mediocre ones and a handful I disliked). For the better ones I never would have known they did not have sugar if I was unfamiliar with iNG and the miracle berry. I have been to all of iNG's menus (some multiple times) and IMHO the general trend has been that the desserts have been becoming more consistently good and on par with the savories whereas I used to generally find the desserts to be a bit of a let down compared to the savories when iNG was new.

Definitely not a gimmick, I should know, I created edible menus and caramelaserized wine. Now those are gimmicks;)

http://youtu.be/Bi5rW8bDx-E

http://news.yahoo.com/video/miracle-ber ... 25667.html

Thanks for the kind words Gonzo70. Just wanted to clear the air a bit. There's a reason why we don't have miracle berries all around us, it's because of the sugar industry. But this time around all of that is going to change.
Watch this:
https://vimeo.com/10834582

Ronnie, dinner is on me at iNG buddy. I wouldn't spend 8 years trying to write a cookbook, open a restaurant then a coffee shop franchise for my health. Well, maybe for our collective health. But ya know I mean;)
HC

miracle berries are a gimmick!

when is my free dinner?

Had the beer menu this week. Homaro had told me they had improved their miracle berry delivery/formulation since I was last here. Indeed, there was one dish where it really worked well and didn't have any off tastes– a stout float with sugar cookie ice cream. Usage was also minimized in the savory courses, but I think it does not work well with beer and wine. IMHO bitter and sour flavors in beer taste good and removing them is a huge mistake that just doesn't taste good and often tastes cloying and off to me. They should consider brewing something that wouldn't be palatable without the miracle berry.

Overall lot of the courses were strong, I'd say about half. The rest had some issues. One dessert was basically soggy raisins and foam. There was a very unbalanced pork belly dish that was difficult to get down and the salmon in one course was very mushy.

The mussels with beer bread were very good though, as was the cauliflower soup. I think if I went back I would do the 3 course or 6 course menus.

Closed.

Here is the edifice at 4419 W. Montrose Ave., just across the avenue from Sidekicks karaoke bar (open until 4:00 am), which is where H. Cantu will open a brewery with a carry-out taco window.