chicago farmers markets... why not year 'round...

I was posting in the CL foofo and was referred here ... Apparently the person who referred me here thought this site had some great insight into Chicago farmer's markets... my point was that I think the Chicago markets suck compared to many other cities... Am I wrong in this, am I missing something ??

<i>my post:</I>

the markets in the summer months of chicago are mediocre at best when compared to the markets that are in place all year around in most other major cities...

Seasonsal? maybe. but other cities seem to manage fine with year 'round markets. (also... Since when is cheese and meat seasonal? many vegetables store well over the winter)

Some of the markets I've recently been to were in Paris, Ottawa, Montreal, etc.. They are tourist attractions--for a good reason... they are open all year around, EVERY DAY. They have permanent facilities set up for markets, not weekly markets that you have to set your alarm to get up for on a wednesday or thursday morning. They are a complete replacement for grocery stores. How many people in Chicago can say that they never go to the grocery store, because they can get <i>everything</I> they need at the farmer's market?

Many of the markets in Chicago don't even have cheese, and those that do often have non-artisan grocery store type cheese... (with the exception of the now-defunct CHIC farmer's market, which had Giles the cheese guy bringingin in some fantastic stuff... I think he is now at another market once a week though.. But, BTW, the CHIC market is an example that year-round markets are possible in Chicago too.).. Adding blow to the already scarce selection of markets, some markets in Chicago try to specialize in something, instead of having something for everyone.. (Lincoln Park has their organic produce market, etc...)

how can you say the ones in chicago are good? can you point out specific advantages our markets have over those in other cities?

I just want to add that I thought the city markets this year were a shadow of last year's; what's with having more "grocery store cheese," pies/breakfast stuffs, salsas/pickled things, and flowers than produce?
Even the flower purveyors themselves offered lesser pickings.

Elsewhere, the topic of a city market's been debated with no clear answer outside of real estate concerns. I wonder if corrupt, beureaucratic Chicago's supermarket heavyweights(with their lockdown on execrable produce) might also hold part of the blame.

The dearth of good, year-round public markets in Chicago is well-discussed in this thread.

I agree wholeheartedly that most of the farmers markets in Chicago are pretty sad. And I wish there were a cleveland, vancouver, montreal, etc-style public market or two or three in the city.

That being said, I do think there is some stellar produce available during market months in Chicago. It's just only available in a small percentage of the whole.

For what it's worth, I consider farmers markets very distinct from the public markets you mention. The well-run chicago-area markets require farmers to bring in only what they themselves grow. Most public markets don't have any such requirement. At the montreal market I was at recently, Ontario and even Californian produce was well-represented.

I find your premise hard to believe. I have been shopping at various farmer's markets since the start of the season (leaving aside the year round aspect for now). I have visited (most more than once) Oak Park, Daley Plaza, 311 S. Wacker, Wicker Park, Federal Plaza and Green City. I believe I eat infinetely better than all but about the best restaurants because I make the effort to shop in these markets.

Are the markets perfect in the sense of speciality products, hams, sausages cheeses. I can see problems, especially because the markets emphasis farmers and not producers. As I have noted other times, there are huge price issues when it comes to meat. Local, organic, grass-fed, pastured meat is well available at several of those markets I mentioned above, but it is much more expensive than supermarket stuff. As much as I'd like to, I do not partake much in this aspect of eating local. Also, as farmer's market visitors would know, all markets are not created equal. I have the luxury of both a terrific "home" market in Oak Park and the ability to get to top tier markets like Green City. Surely, there are things at these markets that are not at other markets.

Yet what things! Did you try any of the apricots or peaches prevelent this summer. Or hurry up and get the last of the Concords. Who cares about a few seeds when they taste so much better than California table grapes. I have seen many a farmer's market around the world, and I just cannot buy that a good market here is not a good market anywhere. You have ample pickings of organic fare. You are never limited in choices, a place like Nicholl's Farm on a weekly basis (say last week) hads 10 or so kindas of apples, at least that that many kindas tomatoes, perhaps twice that many kindas of potatoes. You want exotic I saw last week tiny orange eggplants, wild hen of the woods mushrooms. Gourmet? How about baby lettuces, cabbage sprouts. Mundane? Cauliflower the size of cow's heads and as white as the first snowfall.

Let me just quickly address the year round thing. The obvious answer is, well, duh? What grows here year round. If you have markets recieving local products, there is not much they can offer in the winterest months besides potatoes, apples and cabbage, all stored at better conditions than you or I can.* Still, because of the growing demand for local products, both because consumers are recognizing the utter deliciousness of it as well as people seeing the all around benefits to the enviroment, local stuff is becoming available all year round. I posted the other day about a CSA that will be supplying produce in November and December and again in March and April. The Green City Market will be running through December at the zoo. It is not ideal, but the more we show demand, the more we will get supplied.

OK, let me end with two final things. In your favor, I will say that your opinion is your opinion. I know not at what markets you shop, nor what specifically turns you off to Chicago's markets. You are un-happy, I am happy (very) with our local farmer's markets. Your unhappiness should not affect my happiness. But I want to end with this reminder: meat surely IS seasonal if you get it local.

Good luck finding what you want.

Rob

*I have a long delayed post I'm working on, on the idea of storing and preparing for the dead zone.

From combing posts on the suburban farmer's markets I daresay what's on offer there trumps what's found at the Clark/Division, Federal Plaza, and Lincoln Park versions. Urbanites are patronized, suburbanites, catered to. I, too have consistently partaken of the "cauliflower big as a cow's head," the concord grapes, tomatoes, not an apple fan, potatoes, sweet potatoes, herbs, and on and on. It just seems the diversity and abundance of years past was especially absent from the Clark/Division Saturday market in favor of tchotchkes and herb-spreads. I dislike the fawning sycophantism ocassionally observed at the Lincoln Park market i.e. chef groupies. Of course, that shouldn't detract from the raison d'etre overpriced(and at least last year at one of my favorite stands, not-organic-at a supposed all-organic market) produce. Suffice it to say my favorite non-organic stand was absent this year. There's also a certain herb purveyor who hilariously tapes a piece of paper over their sign offering a dollar mark-up per bundle at the LP market.
Approach them on any other day and the herbs are back to the usual buck fifty.

It's a mistake to say the suburban markets are better than the city ones, or vice versa.

I think there are really only two top-tier suburban markets: Evanston and Oak Park. I've never been impressed by any of the others.

Those two don't qualify as suburban?

for sake of letting this rest (and believing that life in Chicago may not be as bad as one thinks...), I'm not opposed to suburban markets... which markets specifically trump those found in chicago?

also, to the person who said meat is seasonal... do explain? a big problem i've seen with the majority of meat products offered at local markets here is that they're frozen meats... i wish this weren't the case, but it seems to be... regardless, how does winter affect their ability to freeze their product?

dddane wrote:for sake of letting this rest (and believing that life in Chicago may not be as bad as one thinks...), I'm not opposed to suburban markets... which markets specifically trump those found in chicago?

also, to the person who said meat is seasonal... do explain? a big problem i've seen with the majority of meat products offered at local markets here is that they're frozen meats... i wish this weren't the case, but it seems to be... regardless, how does winter affect their ability to freeze their product?

I'm no farmer, nor a biologist, but the rough answer as I know it, is that farm animals are born at one time of year and slaughtered at another time of year. It's not like an ongoing processs., It's no different than planting the corn. Once it's gone, you have to wait until next year to get some more. Now, I understand chickens are slaughtered a lot younger than cows or pigs, so I suppose there can be more than one "harvest" a year. Otherwise, it's when the animal matures, which I understand is a bit more than a year.

Which is exactly why the local meat is frozen. The farmer's cannot assume a demand for their whole animal at slaughter, so have to have it frozen. I understand that the freezing is done at the processing plant.

When I was at the Lake County fare, I picked up some flyers for meat processing plants. It's interesting in a peverse way, to read the nuts and bolts (so to speak) of how your food gets to your table.

Anyways, maybe you just have not found a great market. On Saturdays, you have at least 3 great ones to try: Green City near Lincoln Park, Evanston and Oak Park.

Rob

I'm always amazed at how many of the stands at farmer's markets are set up for lunch (brick oven pizza's, burgers, etc). Sure, they are good--if pricey. I get the impression at some markets, like in Lincoln Park, that a good half of the people are there to get lunch and relax on their day off, which is fine, of course. However, it doesn't seem like a lot of people are doing the majority of their shopping at markets. In fact, it's pretty difficult to do so unless you are willing to sacrafice quite a few things or travel to every market on the ONE DAY it's happening (provided you can get their during their limited hours).

I don't think there is any reason why markets wouldn't flourish year-round (yes, everything doesn't grow year round, but dairy, bread, meat etc could be available). The answer must be with the city. And that means Daley. And that means it won't change. Keep in mind we are a city that prides itself on a Chicago hot dog yet we are one of the few urban centers where you can't get a hot dog on the street.

Food isn't a priority here unless it brings in big money. So the big supermarkets probably do have Daley's ear (and campaign pocketbook) when it comes to markets (and the restaraunt industry with street vendors). Couple that with the relatively minor financial impact they have on the city and you can see why Daley isn't going to do anything drastic to change things.

Who said anything about being opposed to suburban markets? -rather, than criticizing the socio/political construction of such? One might consider that frequent access to the much-vaunted suburbs is difficult for those who chose to live in the city-proper sans automobile. This great forum offers many gleaming windows into culinary territories beyond the EVERYDAY reach of those reliant upon the CTA. This context offers insight into a certain irasibility towards the suburb-centric vis a vis what's on offer at the urban markets. FYI: Green City market carries the onus of patronizing it's trendily "organic/local lifestyle" seeking demographic. Yes, one can find adequate foodstuffs, I prefer my produce sans "cultural" gloss.

I agree with food not being a priority and why it limits a public market ala Ferry in SF. I also agree (fer sure) that there is no reason that there cannot be winter markets regardless of what's growing--I really wish there were.

The thing I wanna comment on, is the, "how do they do that". As I noted above, I've made a few visits this year to various downtown markets. I am pretty impressed with them. Daley had these cool Amish guys from Indiana with the best peanut brittle I think I have ever had. Heartland Meat is also at Daley. Nicholl's is at Daley and Fed Plaza and Green Acres is at Fed Plaza. These are serious stands with serious stuff, not cutesy food and not faux, let's take off the label food (there are a few of those stands downtown). What I'm getting at, is I find it astonishing that these REAL markets with REAL vendors can prosper. I've walked away from these markets with several bags of food, but then I went home. How many of the other buyers are doing that? Yet, the selection is a selection for the cook, not someone looking for an apple after lunch.

The Oak Park Farmers Market is quite close to the Ridgeland stop on the Green line. It's certainly easier to get to for a non-car-owner than, say, Green City Market.

The Evanston Farmers market is a couple blocks from the Evanston/Davis metra station or the Davis purple line stop.

We're not talking the boonies.

On the other hand, Chicago has a lot more independent produce markets - Caputos, Eurofresh, Joseph's Marketplace, etc. - than nearly every other city. Detroit may have a few, but not many.

For example, in Cleveland, your choices are for the most part, the West Side Market, the Eastside Market (not much there) or the lage grocery chains. There are painfully few independent grocery stores.

Well, I appreciate the el info. I patronize a specific handful of farmer's markets because reaching them doesn't eat a huge chunk out of my daily routine.

Evanston, from my location in the gold coast, is a good 45 minutes(likely more) each way. Lazy, I simply wish my local markets stood up to the plethora of enticing victuals read about(and salivated over) in the LTH suburban threads. I'm embarrased to mention that I'm eagerly planning my first visit up to Devon sometime in the next couple weeks. As per my Beyond Chicagoland post, I'll be seeking out items for an approximation of a recent Lebanese feast. On the other hand, I'm taking the train to Ba Le tomorrow merely to pick up their great baguettes for dinner po-boys.
I suppose I'll have to partake of a lemongrass sausage extra jalapeno and almond croissant as well..sigh.

The intention of Chicago's Green City Market is to ultimately have a year round market. They are developing capital and searching for a permanent space.

Not to mention that most of the markets are only on Saturdays--the day I try to avoid doing any long commuting within the city (El runs less and traffic is insane).

The Green City Market runs on Wednesday and Sunday.

In yesterday's Tribune, it was noted that it was the last column for food writer Abby Mandell. The reason she is leaving is that she is president of the group working on a year round market. So maybe there is hope.
Paulette

Abby Mandel is in charge of the Green City Market.

For a suburban perspective from further out than Evanston, I visit the Deerfield and Ravinia markets fairly often (Deerfield just about every weekend). While I find some excellent quality produce, I'm very disappointed in the variety offered. I don't really see the point of having 80% of the stands selling exactly the same product. The only rationale I can come up with is that consumers aren't interested enough to support a wider variety of produce, or the suppliers don't exist around here.

The assortment, quantity and quality of produce this year have been impacted by a cold spring followed by a hot summer with low rainfall. Much of central and northern Illinois is in the worst drought since dust bowl days with slightly less serious drought extending into Wisconsin, Indiana and Michigan. Southwestern Michigan had some weather problems last winter with repercussions this summer (major winter damage in blackberries, for example). Judging farmers' markets in the Chicago area based on this year's produce is a big mistake. Many of the farmers are lucky to have anything to sell.

Hi,

I will expand to the last two years have been tough for farmers and gardeners. Last year, we had the long, cool spring followed by quite a bit of rain. Two years ago was the last 'normal' summer for crops.

Regards,

Ahhh...climatary concerns in hindsight make me eat my words(perhaps). I was just lamenting this year's Winter/Summer/Winter pattern. Bah.

There is talk of expanding Wright college's campus into part of the Read-Dunning land (Irving & Oak Park). Interesting enough for a big city, the focus of this expansion is an agricultural school. Initial plans include a year-round farmers' market.

This land has been up for grabs and argument for decades, and the plans are extremely preliminary, so I wouldn't put much hope in this. I still find this an intriguing possibility.

-ramon

There was talk about a year ago that Daley wanted to turn the former flagship Toys BackwardsR Us on State into a year-round, indoor market. Unfortunately, the space is presently being converted into an Urban Office Outfitters Depot, so that has fallen away. At any rate, it does show there is interest in the Daley administration to have a city-supported year-round market. Milwaukee just opened a city-backed year-round market. I have not been there, but it could be a good example of how an upper-midest city can make a year round market work.

In defense of what we already have in these parts, I make the short trek from Lincoln Square to Evanston every Saturday. It is easy to take for granted the variety of things one can get there, but last week it was put in perspective when I found myself trying to decide whether to buy the organic red jerusalem artichokes at Henry's or just the un-sprayed ones at Nichol's.

This is one area in which LTHers would do better sending their thoughts outside this forum. Write letters to the newspapers; badger your aldermen; buttonhole anyone you know who has influence with city government and the city's financial movers and shakers.

I suggest that the right tone is: "How can Chicago let itself be outdone by Milwaukee?" (Indeed, it does seem that Milwaukee is a leader where Chicago is follower -- consider that Taste of Chicago was based on Summerfest.) Along with pointing out the financial advantages in terms of tourism, etc.

Here's a piece on The making of the Milwaukee Public Market.

Milwaukee Public Market Website.

I don't know whether Abby Mandel can pull together a permanent, daily food market. The Green City Market is a fine thing, but she and it have been somewhat divisive. For example, the erstwhile CHIC market, mentioned above, was formed largely by vendors whom Mandel either banned or offended -- including Giles Schnierle's Great American Cheese.

LAZ wrote:This is one area in which LTHers would do better sending their thoughts outside this forum. Write letters to the newspapers; badger your aldermen; buttonhole anyone you know who has influence with city government and the city's financial movers and shakers.

...; Attend this workshop, or badger or buttonhole some aforementioned to send someone...
How to Create Successful Markets" Training Course | Project for Public Spaces (PPS) (October 12-13, 2007)

(I can't actually speak to whether this is a good training, but I'm pleased that someone has even tried to make it a trainable subject...)

Now that this thread has been bumped, does anyone have an update on the plans of Green City or other groups to get a year-round market going?

The OP seems to confuse a farmer's market with a public market, so to speak. I've been to excellent public markets in a number of places, including Ann Arbor, MI; Oxford, UK; Mexico; and St. Louis, MO. Generally these public markets have some businesses that operate year round, such as meat shops, cheese shops, etc, but also have farm stands. Importantly, the farm-fresh produce is only there during the growing season. If there's, say, tomatoes at the Soulard Market in St. Louis in February, shouldn't we conclude that these are either from a local greenhouse or were shipped from somewhere far to the south? And then, in what sense is Soulard a farmer's market if they are simply replacing locally grown produce during the winter with stuff that you could purchase at any high-quality grocery store?

Some of these public markets also strike me as a food version of the Merchandise Mart. It would be great if Chicago had something like this, but it really wouldn't be a farmer's market.

More generally, I'm curious what the OP would like to see in the winter months? Much of meat and cheese sold at the Green City market is available year round, just not at the Green City market. Next time you are there, ask one of the meat purveyors how to get their meat in February. Some of them have drop off locations or make other arrangements.