mgmcewen wrote:None of these features are going to happen because the restaurants in Chicago doing ticketing are using a hacked together system that from everything I have heard is made, tested, and approved by one developer. If you want sustainable high-quality software you hire a software team, not one person.

mgmcewen wrote:I started work on a system like this for my own use.

Why would you want a hacked together system? I recently heard that if you want sustainable high-quality software you hire a software team, not one person.

I worked on it with two other developers before we stopped having time for it. It was originally a hackathon project.

No, I would not sell software I built with a one-person team to other people.

The Next/Alinea/Elizabeth system is a mess. To even see if they have tickets available or to log in, you have to fill in a captcha. Maybe that's appropriate for Next during a rush, but it's a pain in the ass for Elizabeth.

Not to mention captcha is easy to bypass via bot

TCK wrote:Not to mention captcha is easy to bypass via bot

What's the secret? This non-bot would like to know, because half the time I can't read the words in captchas myself.

riddlemay wrote:

TCK wrote:Not to mention captcha is easy to bypass via bot

What's the secret? This non-bot would like to know, because half the time I can't read the words in captchas myself.

Some may find this interesting... In the re-captcha system like Next/Alinea uses where you have to type in two words, only one of those words is actually used to verify that you're a human. The other word is an image from a book that a computer is trying to digitize but can't decipher. Older books that are yellowed and fading are difficult for OCR software to digitize, up to 30% of the words can't be figured out by the computer. The re-captcha system sends out one word that it knows the answer to (to verify you aren't a bot) and one string of text that some OCR software trying to digitize a book couldn't decipher, if the majority of humans type in the same answer for the unknown string of text then that information is used to complete converting the book in to a digital format.

mgmcewen wrote:Eater has an article today on dealing with no-shows that has a section on ticketing systems
http://eater.com/archives/2013/04/22/noshows.php

my own opinion is that it only works well in extremely high-demand situations.

Interesting excerpt from the article:

Amy McKeever wrote:Kokonas argues that even the complaints against the system might actually be strengths in this regard, explaining, "There have been some people that have said to me, 'I'll never come to your restaurant because I have to buy a ticket.' And I go, 'Awesome.' Because the person basically just told me, 'I could never make a commitment to going a certain night and I cancel all the time.' So I've just eliminated exactly the person I want to eliminate."

Another reason for me to not go to Alinea or Next.

imsscott wrote:Interesting excerpt from the article:

Amy McKeever wrote:Kokonas argues that even the complaints against the system might actually be strengths in this regard, explaining, "There have been some people that have said to me, 'I'll never come to your restaurant because I have to buy a ticket.' And I go, 'Awesome.' Because the person basically just told me, 'I could never make a commitment to going a certain night and I cancel all the time.' So I've just eliminated exactly the person I want to eliminate."

Another reason for me to not go to Alinea or Next.

Yeah. I'm not a person who has a hard time committing to a reservation, and the number of times I've had to cancel a reservation in the last twenty years could probably be counted on one finger, yet Kokonas' remark really turns me off. Besides which, he's wrong if he thinks frequent-cancellers are the only ones whose business he's losing by having a ticket policy.

The "if you don't like it, tough shit" has basically been the stance since the beginning.

Shaming no-shows on twitter!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/ ... um=twitter

Tapeo is our favorite Montréal resto! They're the nicest people in the world, and their food, service and room are superb. Can't imagine how anyone, let alone eighteen, could no-show these folks. Ugh.
Wall of Shame: sounds reasonable to me.

Geo

Geo wrote:Tapeo is our favorite Montréal resto! They're the nicest people in the world, and their food, service and room are superb. Can't imagine how anyone, let alone eighteen, could no-show these folks. Ugh.
Wall of Shame: sounds reasonable to me.

Yeah, the parties who were "shamed" had reservations for 18, 6 and 4. To make a reservation for 18 people then not show up, is reprehensible. I am sure the restaurant put on extra staff who expected to earn a guaranteed gratuity. I wonder if anybody has ever been sued for breaking a reservation without notice. If I went into a retail establishment and placed a firm order for $1000+ worth of products and services, then never followed through, I would not be surprised to find myself in court. Actually, it is doubtful that a retail business would allow a customer to place an order without some sort of advance payment, yet restaurants are ridiculed if they try to ask for a deposit to secure a reservation.

I'm honestly surprised they did not require a deposit on a reservation as big as 18 people. Even the steakhouse I worked at in high school and college required $30 per person deposit on parties over 12 people.

TCK wrote:I'm honestly surprised they did not require a deposit on a reservation as big as 18 people. Even the steakhouse I worked at in high school and college required $30 per person deposit on parties over 12 people.

That was my first thought - but then I remembered it's Canada and, IME, there's a significantly lower D-bag factor up there. Even as jaded as I've become I'm still pretty shocked that someone would book 18 and no-show.

THE INTERSECTION OF CHEFS AND TECHNOLOGY WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT NICK KOKONAS’ TICKETING SYSTEM

...
OpenTable’s equipment set-up fee is $1,295, plus a monthly service fee of $199. But where OpenTable makes most of its money and has been heavily criticized, is with a per-reservation service fee. If a reservation is made through OpenTable’s website the company collects $1 per reservation, while the restaurant is charged $0.25 per reservation if the diner books through the restaurant’s website.

What’s that translate to? Let’s say a restaurant that’s open 360 days a year and has an average of 100 reservations on the books per night gets 75% of its customers from OpenTable. That restaurant pays nearly $30,000 a year to the booking giant.
...

Cathy2 wrote:THE INTERSECTION OF CHEFS AND TECHNOLOGY WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT NICK KOKONAS’ TICKETING SYSTEM

...
What’s that translate to? Let’s say a restaurant that’s open 360 days a year and has an average of 100 reservations on the books per night gets 75% of its customers from OpenTable. That restaurant pays nearly $30,000 a year to the booking giant.
...

That actually strikes me as a cheap price for a restaurant to pay, considering that many people decide which restaurant to go to based on checking OpenTable first and seeing what they show available. And those people may never look at a restaurant's own website. If OpenTable is good for 75 reservations a night at a given restaurant, that restaurant may kiss 73 of those goodbye if it goes off OpenTable.

Cathy2 wrote:

If a reservation is made through OpenTable’s website the company collects $1 per reservation, while the restaurant is charged $0.25 per reservation if the diner books through the restaurant’s website.

That's very interesting - I never thought that much about it, but I guess it makes sense. I'll make a note in the future to book through restaurants' websites whenever possible.

As a frequent user of OpenTable, I appreciate the points I accrue. I just used a $50 dining cheque last week. The ability to book on OpenTable is frequently a factor in my dining decisions or recommendations to coworkers. There's a value to having a consolidating listing of available reservations for many restaurants. It's not the only way I select my dining destinations, but it certainly helps.

I also utilize Open Table a lot; very fast and easy to use and most restaurants I like are listed - so great way to check what is available on a given day/time. I also like how you can narrow down searches by neighborhood, type of cuisine etc. and find the aggregate ratings somewhat useful and interesting. I also find it helpful when traveling somewhere that I am not very familiar with the dining scene.

While it is certainly not cheap for restaurants to use, I agree that a restaurant benefits from significant exposure. I hate Next's ticketing system. While I can tolerate it if I feel that a restaurant has a need for the efficiency of tickets, has some flexibility if one's plans change (i.e. allowing an exchange or assisting in selling the ticket to another party) and passes on some of the savings to customers (i.e. Elizabeth fits these criteria) I feel that Next and Alinea are simply trying to maximize profits and have developed a very consumer unfriendly manner of conducting business. I think that unless a restaurant has more demand than supply, most will end up losing money adopting a ticketing system versus a more traditional and consumer oriented approach to reservations.

riddlemay wrote:That actually strikes me as a cheap price for a restaurant to pay, considering that many people decide which restaurant to go to based on checking OpenTable first and seeing what they show available. And those people may never look at a restaurant's own website. If OpenTable is good for 75 reservations a night at a given restaurant, that restaurant may kiss 73 of those goodbye if it goes off OpenTable.

This is exactly how I use OpenTable much of the time. It's far more convenient for me to compare times and availability via Open Table than to jump through multiple websites.

At places like Next in Chicago, Trois Mec in Los Angeles and Volver in Philadelphia, a new breed of pay-up-front reservation is taking some of the risk out of running a restaurant. But what does it mean for the rest of us?

http://online.wsj.com/articles/ticket-t ... 1401463548

Gonzo70 wrote:I hate Next's ticketing system. While I can tolerate it if I feel that a restaurant has a need for the efficiency of tickets, has some flexibility if one's plans change (i.e. allowing an exchange or assisting in selling the ticket to another party) and passes on some of the savings to customers (i.e. Elizabeth fits these criteria) I feel that Next and Alinea are simply trying to maximize profits and have developed a very consumer unfriendly manner of conducting business. I think that unless a restaurant has more demand than supply, most will end up losing money adopting a ticketing system versus a more traditional and consumer oriented approach to reservations.

I agree with Gonzo. I also find it tiresome how often Nick/Next respond, "Just like a sporting event, concert, or theater ticket all sales are final," given that many of these venues, at least when dealing with season ticket holders, very much accommodate exchanges to other dates after the initial purchase. Enough about that for now, though, as I have to leave LTH browsing and go try to trade my July 19 tix for Chinese Modern.

Tickets for Restaurants - Kokonas on the Alinea Blog

(Alinea has a blog???)

Love him or hate him, Nick is pretty damn transparent.

It doesn't seem that it would be much of a problem for restaurants to make unwanted tickets available for re-sale. If somebody else wants them, then you are off the hook. If not, you are stuck with them.

It even seems that if faced with paying for a meal they will not be able to consume, many people would be willing to let the tickets go for a substantial discount, especially at the last minute. This might even be a profitable business for somebody that wants to start a "hotwire" type site for unwanted meal tickets (assuming the restaurants allow it).

Restaurants Offer Discounts, Special Menus to Attract 5:30 Reservations

http://online.wsj.com/articles/restaura ... 1402526918

For years, Nick Kokonas was warned.

No one would ever prepay for a ticket to eat at a restaurant.

For years, Nick Kokonas was undaunted.

He was collecting data, reams of it, showing prepaid tickets increased revenue and wiped out no-shows at Alinea, the restaurant he owns with chef Grant Achatz.

And now, Nick Kokonas is prepared.

He is unveiling a new company with Achatz called Tock, challenging OpenTable and taking restaurant ticketing nationwide.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... tml#page=1

This will be awful.

Reserve App Enters Crowded Chicago Reservation Market Today

http://chicago.eater.com/2015/4/14/8406 ... ng-chicago

Dave148 wrote:

Reserve App Enters Crowded Chicago Reservation Market Today

http://chicago.eater.com/2015/4/14/8406 ... ng-chicago

I'm curious about this:

An unusual aspect of Reserve is one that is rarely taken up by restaurants and therefore untapped by users: the ability to pay more than the menu price.

What's the idea there? That paying more may get you a table when one isn't otherwise available? That paying more may get you a better table than the poor schnook who pays menu prices? If so, how is this different from a bribe?