@Daniel Zemans: Excellent article, Dan- this is your best work since you authored the United States of Pizza: Chicago Edition a few years ago for Serious Eats Chicago. Actually, this may be your best work yet. I think you can figure out who this is as a regular Serious Eats Chicago commentator, so please here me out.

Over the years at Serious Eats Chicago and other supposedly "Chicago based" magazines and blogsites, I've noticed a lot of venom toward deep dish pizza by various "Chicago" food writers. These people are suppose to be representing Chicago foods, but they really don't care for native Chicago foods, especially deep dish pizza. But when you dig a little deeper into many of these food writers backgrounds, you discover that many of these "Chicago" food writers are not from Chicago at all. They are transplants from somewhere else in America. They now live in Chicago, but they have no clue, nor do they really care about what actual born and raised Chicagoans and Chicago area suburbanites have been eating for entire generations. Just because they write for a Chicago based publication doesn't make them any type of expert on what actual born and raised Chicagoans eat on a daily basis with their families or when at work. And guess what? Much to their dismay, the majority of us eat deep dish pizza. And no matter how many new, artisinal, hip, trendy, or Neapolitan places show up here, these transplant Chicago food writers will NEVER be able to erase Chicago's very popular/blue collar history with deep dish pizza. They will never be able to redefine the Chicago pizza scene no matter how hard they try.

Deep down they know this, but it doesn't stop them from getting jobs with these various Chicago based publications/blogsites and attempting to redefine what they consider "true pizza." And what they often do is they come out with these "Best Pizza In Chicago" lists, but they always choose non-Chicago style pizzas as their top choices. In essense, they do everything they can to be pizza snobs and downplay the significance of deep dish pizza, and instead choose pizzas that remind them of where ever they came from somewhere else in America, before they moved to Chicago to be food writers. Thus, their "Best Pizza In Chicago" lists always include great pizza places, but none of them are ever the Chicago legends that we grew up on. Instead, their top choices will be places like Coalfire, the former Great Lake, Piece, Spacca Napoli, or Nellcote. Make no mistake about it, these are all great pizza places. But they are not the pizza places we grew up on here in Chicago.

The places that many of us grew up on are simply an inconvenient truth for these food writers. The pizza places we grew up on here in Chicago do not fit into their narrative of trying to redefine the Chicago pizza scene to conform to what they consider "true pizza." Many of them are out and out snobs. Their condescension, elitism, and arrogance toward deep dish pizza is obvious and on full display every time they come out with one of these "Best of Chicago" pizza lists. I've got news for all of them: When their trendy, hip, and artisinal pizza places are gone in a few years, you know what will still be here? Lou Malnati's. Pizzeria Uno/Due. Pizano's. Louisa's. Hopefully Burt's Place, as long as Burt's healthy. These are the deep dish recipes that have stood the test of time. They are classic, quintessential Chicago, black cast iron pan pizzas. For Pete's sake, entire generations of Chicagoans and suburbanites have been eating Lou Malnati's and Pizzeria Uno/Due for decades. Lou Malnati's is the most overnight shipped pizza in America. It's craved all over America by millions of people who have come to Chicago and experienced the best pizza in the world, and they want a taste of it mailed to them when they get back home. I think Malnati's is up to something in the area of 37 stores, and in the next couple years, they may be expanding to other states. Their popularity is at an all time high, and so is the popularity of deep dish pizza. As you already know, most of Lou Malnati's locations are in places far away from downtown tourist Chicago. And who's eating in all of these suburban Lou Malnati's far away from downtown? People that actually grew up here. And these locations are packed to the gills on any given night with local Chicagaons and suburbanites. But these transplant Chicago food writers want everybody to forget this.

And this immense popularity of places like Lou Malnati's drives these transplant food writers crazy because deep dish pizzas sheer popularity prevents these snotty food writers from redefining the Chicago pizza scene to conform to what they consider "true pizza." Personally, I think many of these food writers, for whatever reason, are threatened by the popularity of deep dish pizza because it threatens what their snotty little closed minds consider true pizza. As obnoxious as many of these so called "Chicago food writers" are, they have alreadly lost the battle. They will never be able to redefine pizza in this city no matter how hard they try over at Serious Eats Chicago or Chicago Magazine, or where ever.

It takes a certain level of sheer arrogance to move to another city to become a food writer, and tell the very people that actually grew up in that city what constitutes good food, as if that city already didn't have good food before the arrogant, condescending, elitist food writer showed up on the scene from somewhere else in America to declare what he considers the "best pizza in Chicago." That would be like me, a native Chicagoan, going up to Alaska to take a job as a food writer, and telling the people of Anchorage where to get the best Alaskan King Crab. Or me taking a job as a food writer in NYC, and telling native New Yorkers where to get the best pastrami. Thus, I would never go into someone else's home city and try to tell the people that actually grew up there where to get the best food. It really takes a certain level of ego, elitism, and condescension to do that, and that's just not who I am.

But these transplant Chicago food writers do it all the time. Nonetheless, like I already said, they have already lost the battle when it comes to deep dish pizza. The sheer popularity of Lou Malnati's, Pizano's, Louisa's, Uno's/Due, and Burt's Place cannot be denied, and will always reign supreme here. When all their hipster, trendy, artisinal, Neapolitan places are gone, the classics will always remain. No matter how hard they try, these snotty food writers will never be able to redefine the Chicago pizza scene.

You should publish your deep dish pizza article on Serious Eats Chicago. You'll get plenty of blowback from the various pizza snobs over there, but they are wrong, and deep down they know it somewhere in their tiny, close minded heads. As for me, I love the diversity of the new Chicago pizza scene. I love Coalfire and Spacca Napoli, and I'm very much looking forward to the opening of Paulie Gee's Chicago. I love having great pizza of all genres in this city. Are Lou Malnati's and Louisa's my favorite pizzas overall above every other style? Yes, but I love having the East Coast and Neapolitan options here in my home city for something different from time to time. I truly love the diversity of the Chicago pizza scene. That's why Chicago is the pizza capital of the world and the single greatest pizza city in American history. We have it all here, and we are all very lucky to have daily access to all these various styles of pizza in one American city.

In conclusion, I'm not the pizza snob, but these so called "Chicago food writers" very much are, and their ignorance/condescension/arrogance/elitism is on full display every time they disrespect Chicago deep dish pizza. Here's a newsflash for all these snotty transplant Chicago food writers: We already had the best pizza in the world here in Chicago long before they showed up on the scene to "educate" us provincial rubes here in Chicago.
In reality, this city is big enough for it all, but you can't tell that to close minded, snotty people. But in the end- we have already won because they have failed and will continue to fail in their efforts to redefine the Chicago pizza scene. What they can't wrap their tiny little brains around is the fact that they can't redefine what's already been immensely popular here since 1943. And it's driving them all crazy.

That is all.

Good Eating As Always,

deepdish (a.k.a. cpd007 over at Serious Eats Chicago)

I grew up in the city city, not the suburbs. And the best pizza I've had in Chicago is/was Great Lake.

deepdish, it's clear you are passionate about pizza, and I applaud your effort to articulate your distrust of those who diss deep dish, but I have a problem with the rhetorical strategy of discounting the opinions of non-native Chicagoans because, according to what you're saying, they couldn't really understand or appreciate deep dish ("they have no clue, nor do they really care about what actual born and raised Chicagoans and Chicago area suburbanites have been eating for entire generations").

One could as easily, and by the same reasoning, take the opposite view that Chicagoans, because they grew up with deep dish (as I did, and for years I avoided it), cannot be objective about culinary value of deep dish: they have an emotional attachment that clouds their perceptions of the food, blinding them to its shortcomings. You write that "It takes a certain level of sheer arrogance to move to another city to become a food writer, and tell the very people that actually grew up in that city what constitutes good food," but does that mean that the only people who can critique the food of any region are those who grew up in that region? That can't be a valid position. For instance, Velvetta is a component of some Tex Mex food, and although I respect the Tex Mex culinary tradition, I cannot abide that "cheese food" on my food. I don't think it's good food. Ditto White Castle, but we don't need to open that conversation again (smile).

Agreed, however, this is a fine piece of writing from Mr. Zemans, and we're lucky to have it on our homepage.

Anyway, this whole discussion has made me long for Lou Malanti's, which just opened a store in Oak Park.

I think what irks many of the easties about Chicago deep dish is it's popularity. Do tourists form lines nightly to get pizza in NY? Twenty-five or thirty years ago deep dish was still a novelty to most Chicagoans. Now most every small neighborhood pizza joint has a version of it on their menu, due to demand.

The funny thing is, you'd think New York would have enough confidence in being, you know, New York, that it wouldn't have to prop itself up by putting Chicago down. But I guess all that brash New York confidence is just a facade.

@David Hammond: I'm not discounting the opinions of non-native Chicagoans because there are millions of them all over the world who love deep dish pizza. It's these "Chicago food writers" who are not actually from Chicago that I find obnoxious because they are the biggest offenders when it comes to bashing deep dish pizza. Not all Chicago food writers- but more than a few. And they really are arrogant and condescending toward the majority of us who actually do like deep dish pizza. I would never make fun of the food they enjoy, but they sure have no problem ridiculing the food I enjoy, especially when it comes to deep dish pizza. They really are the food snobs. I, like yourself, can appreciate food from every culture, and pizza from every region of America. Many of these transplant food writers cannot.

Instead, they insist on pushing their own agenda of redefining the Chicago pizza scene to advance the various pizzas they consider "true pizza," and ridiculing the very pizza that has been popular here since 1943- deep dish pizza. Like I said, I actually love the East Coast places that they continually laud, especially Coalfire and Spacca Napoli. And I most definitely will be at the grand opening of Paulie Gee's Chicago when it finally opens. But I'm not close minded- I'm open to all styles of food, especially pizza. They are not. It's their way or the highway when it comes to pizza, and they really don't care who they offend when they write their articles bashing deep dish pizza. Unfortunately, we are all subjected to their horrible, agenda driven, excuse for journalism every time they write an article bashing deep dish pizza. And I will call them out every time on their arrogance, elitism, and condescension.

But under no circumstances am I discounting the opinions of non-native Chicagoans. I think it's great that so many non-native Chicagoans love deep dish pizza worldwide, and I love hearing people from other parts of America talk about their love for deep dish pizza when they visited Chicago. The only opinions I discount are some of these transplant Chicago food writers who continually bash deep dish pizza, and have no respect for people who have different opinions than their own.
The irony of it all is that many of these food writers love to talk about tolerance and trying new foods from different parts of America, but they are really only tolerant to their own ideas about food. In reality, they are not tolerant at all when it comes to people who have different opinions of food, i.e. deep dish pizza. They really are hypocrites of the highest order when it comes to food tolerance because they're only tolerant to their own ideas about food, and not anybody else's ideas.

It's funny you mention the new Oak Park Lou Malnati's. I'll be there on Father's Day, and I'm very much looking forward to sitting outside on their patio with a deep dish sausage pizza- buttercrust everytime, with some of Lou Malnati's housemade creamy lemon garlic dressing to dip the pizza into. It's decadent, and it's a once a month treat only because my cardiologist will start yelling at me if I have it any more than once a month.

Cheers,

deepdish

@the happy carnivore and riddlemay: Right on.

riddlemay wrote:The funny thing is, you'd think New York would have enough confidence in being, you know, New York, that it wouldn't have to prop itself up by putting Chicago down. But I guess all that brash New York confidence is just a facade.

Honestly, New Yorkers spend about 0% of their time thinking about Chicago. Sorry.

deepdish,

Your opinion about food critics may or may not be correct, but your continual reference to the popularity of deep dish pizza is specious. If popularity was the key to finding good food we wouldn't need reviewers, or this site, for that matter. We could just look up the restaurant's grosses.

cilantro wrote:

riddlemay wrote:The funny thing is, you'd think New York would have enough confidence in being, you know, New York, that it wouldn't have to prop itself up by putting Chicago down. But I guess all that brash New York confidence is just a facade.

Honestly, New Yorkers spend about 0% of their time thinking about Chicago. Sorry.

Technically I suppose you're right, since Jon Stewart comes from New Jersey.

riddlemay wrote:

cilantro wrote:

riddlemay wrote:The funny thing is, you'd think New York would have enough confidence in being, you know, New York, that it wouldn't have to prop itself up by putting Chicago down. But I guess all that brash New York confidence is just a facade.

Honestly, New Yorkers spend about 0% of their time thinking about Chicago. Sorry.

Technically I suppose you're right, since Jon Stewart comes from New Jersey.

Jon Stewart reads jokes that are written by people who come from all over the country. (Some even from Chicago ) These jokes are not necessarily indicative of any genuine, long-simmering rivalry, and the knee-jerk defensiveness they invariably engender do not reflect a city confident in its stature.

cilantro wrote:These jokes are not necessarily indicative of any genuine, long-simmering rivalry, and the knee-jerk defensiveness they invariably engender do not reflect a city confident in its stature.

I think the last time Chicago was confident in its stature was 1893.

Not that New Yorkers have any problem being dicks, but most of the rancor is turned toward New Jerseyites or Bostonians.

Anyway, everyone can eat whatever he likes and everyone is free to criticize whatever he doesn't like. Peace.

cilantro wrote:

riddlemay wrote:The funny thing is, you'd think New York would have enough confidence in being, you know, New York, that it wouldn't have to prop itself up by putting Chicago down. But I guess all that brash New York confidence is just a facade.

Honestly, New Yorkers spend about 0% of their time thinking about Chicago. Sorry.

In general I think this is true but when it comes to deep dish pizza there's definitely some weird kind of d!¢k measuring contest going on. Why else would anyone get so upset about it?

zoid wrote:

cilantro wrote:

riddlemay wrote:The funny thing is, you'd think New York would have enough confidence in being, you know, New York, that it wouldn't have to prop itself up by putting Chicago down. But I guess all that brash New York confidence is just a facade.

Honestly, New Yorkers spend about 0% of their time thinking about Chicago. Sorry.

In general I think this is true but when it comes to deep dish pizza there's definitely some weird kind of d!¢k measuring contest going on. Why else would anyone get so upset about it?

Just a guess, but because it obviously pushes some people's buttons? If people would stop reacting so angrily to what is, let's face it, a really silly thing to get worked up about, it would probably stop.

But then keep in mind, I don't get it when people get into physical fights about sports, either, so I'm probably the wrong person to ask.

I'm waiting for Rachel Shtier to weigh in.

As a native East Coaster, the popularity of midwest-style square-cut thin crust is more of a mystery than the popularity of deep dish. But that's a fight for another thread.

ld111134 wrote:I'm waiting for Rachel Shtier to weigh in.

As a native East Coaster, the popularity of midwest-style square-cut thin crust is more of a mystery than the popularity of deep dish. But that's a fight for another thread.

Ummm...because it's delicious?

deepdish wrote:And no matter how many new, artisinal, hip, trendy, or Neapolitan places show up here, these transplant Chicago food writers will NEVER be able to erase Chicago's very popular/blue collar history with deep dish pizza. They will never be able to redefine the Chicago pizza scene no matter how hard they try.

Life long Chicago-area resident here. I grew up in the suburbs but always remembered going to Pizzeria Due (my family still goes there as our deep dish of choice) or my Dad bringing home Gino's East if he was working in the office over the weekend.

However, I was always under the impression that Chicago's blue collar pizza was tavern-cut thin crust pizza... Home Run Inn, Vito & Nick's and the numerous pizzerias inhabiting the humble strip malls of the South and Western suburbs like dry cleaners. None of them made deep dish. They almost all specialized in thin crust.

Deep dish pizza was always the epitome of deluxe. I mean a slice of deep dish is the equivalent of a quarter or more of a thin crust pie. They took longer. They were more expensive. It was not the food of the blue collar, it was the food of sufficiently middle class (and the tourists).

And to be honest with you, despite the warm memories of Due, Lou's, Pequod's, Gino's East, I'd still rather have a sausage and giardinera thin crust from Papa's Pizza in Woodridge every time.

@lodasi: Very true. Growing up very blue collar, thin crust pizza with homemade sausage was our weekly pizza- every Friday night. For me, it was Q's in Hillside and Villa Nova in Stickney. And sometimes the original Armand's in Elmwood Park (R.I.P.). That was pizza for the majority of us growing up either in Chicago or the surrounding suburbs. I never even thought of it as "tavern cut" pizza. To us, it was just pizza and how we ate it with our family and friends here in Chicago or the surrounding burbs.

But the big treat for us blue collar kids back in the day was the once a month trip downtown to Pizzeria Due. Uno's was always too crowded, so Due was usually the spot. Back then, there were no Lou Malnati's anywhere near us. It was all about Pizzeria Due. Nowadays, with the proliferation of Lou Malnati's all over Chicagoland, many people don't bother going downtown anymore for Pizzeria Due because it's much more convenient to just go to the local Lou Malnati's. It's become really expensive to go downtown these days, and Lou Malnati's is right in everybody's backyards.

Today, much like the many thin crust pizza places all over Chicagoland, Lou Malnati's are now everywhere. I work a very blue collar job, and my co-workers are as blue collar as you can possibly imagine. And someone is always bringing in Lou Malnati's into work, or someone is always having a going away party and Lou Malnati's is the featured guest. Or even with our bowling league- everybody loves Lou Malnati's. They have become very ingrained in Chicago culture, much like our favorite thin crust places.

In essence, you're absolutely right- the pizza of the blue collar working class was (and still is) always the local thin crust place, but because of Lou Malnati's tremendous growth, popularity, and excellent deep dish pizza, they have become a favorite of people all over Chicagoland, and even the rest of America for that matter. They are the most overnight shipped pizza in America because people truly do love Lou's. But many of these snotty food writers always want to downplay this because they hate deep dish pizza, and they are determined to redefine the Chicago pizza scene. And if they could push out our favorite blue collar, cut into squares, thin crust places in favor of their trendy, artisanal, hipster, East Coast places- they would. Many of these food writers can't understand why we love our thin crust pizzas cut into squares with homemade sausage. That's not their preferred pizza, either, which is why many of these food writers prefer Coalfire, Spacca Napoli, Nellcote, Piece, and the former Great Lake over places like your Papa's Pizza in Woodridge or my Q's in Hillside or Villa Nova in Stickney.

But what these food writers don't understand is that they will never be able to wipe out or erase our pizza history here in Chicago, whether it's thin crust cut into squares or deep dish. Like I said, we already had the best pizza in the world here in Chicago, thin crust or deep dish, long before these food writers ever showed up on scene from somewhere else in America to "educate" us provincial rubes here in Chicago. And they really are only tolerant to their own ideas about pizza or food in general. Many of these food writers have no tolerance what-so-ever for anybody who disagrees with them, especially when it comes to Chicago style pizza- deep dish or thin crust. It's like they want to pick and choose what they want to be tolerant about. But life doesn't work that way, and they should respect our native Chicago food traditions, rather than constantly disrespecting them (and the very people that eat that particular food) in an effort to advance their own agenda.

And your not the first person to mention Papa's Pizza in Woodridge to me. I've heard very good things about the place. Is it still there? If it is, I'd love to try it sooner rather than later. I yearn for our thin crust pizza all the time- believe me.

Lots of talk here about unnamed carpetbagging critics who can't "get" Chicago pizza and need to go back to their own city/country/planet. But who are we talking about? That Pennsylvania-bred Sula? He won a Beard award so you can bet his hands are soft and he couldn't begin to appreciate Chicago's working man's pizza. Just kidding, Mike. He's from Pittsburgh, a Rust Belt city with a team named after organized mill labor, and he has nothing but nice things to say about Chicago's tavern-style titans, like V&N and Marie's. I can't really think of a Chicago-based critic fitting the description right now. Most seem happy to call good pizza good pizza, whatever its form. It's just the nature of things that newer, serious pizza efforts such as Spacca Napoli, Great Lake and Coalfire get some deserved press. The old classics get plenty, too. And let's don't forget, there is lots of terrible "real" Chicago pie out there. The pressed cardboard salt bombs of various suburban Rosati's come to mind. It's fair to call bad pizza bad, too. Anyway, in my opinion, the deep dish flavor of the evregreen "Second City" shtick probably expired somewhere along the spectrum of Oprah declaring Pizano's the best pizza in America, Esquire calling Malnati's the most life-changing slice in the world, and Burt's pie on the cover of Saveur.

Here's a timely review of Chicago deep dish from a non-native critic:

http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/06/the- ... icago.html

the happy carnivore wrote:I think what irks many of the easties about Chicago deep dish is it's popularity. Do tourists form lines nightly to get pizza in NY?

Tourists and natives, actually. Not at every corner joint, for sure, but at the "temples" of NY Style pizza, absolutely.

leek wrote:

the happy carnivore wrote:I think what irks many of the easties about Chicago deep dish is it's popularity. Do tourists form lines nightly to get pizza in NY?

Tourists and natives, actually. Not at every corner joint, for sure, but at the "temples" of NY Style pizza, absolutely.

All kinds of tourists flock to John's of Bleeker Street, Patsy's and other such places in NYC...I lived there and can attest to that.

Who are these food critics who are trying to redefine Chicago pizza? I can't think of any.

No food that has more blue collar cred than the big, floppy foldable slices of pizza that I grew up on in upstate NY. That pizza is just as proletarian as Chicago tavern-style thin crust and is loved just as much by those who grew up on it.

#slightlyofftopic

deepdish wrote:And your not the first person to mention Papa's Pizza in Woodridge to me. I've heard very good things about the place. Is it still there? If it is, I'd love to try it sooner rather than later. I yearn for our thin crust pizza all the time- believe me.

Papa's Pizza
8258 N Janes Ave
Woodridge, IL 60517

The inside looks like a time warp (or at least still did as of December).

I never knew it was called tavern cut until a couple years ago. I still prefer my non deep dish pizzas cut into squares.

Habibi wrote:I grew up in the city city, not the suburbs. And the best pizza I've had in Chicago is/was Great Lake.

I mostly agree, but I'm not really a fan of deep dish pizza (never even ate any until I was in high school--and I was born in Back of the Yards and grew up next door in Brighton Park/Archer Heights), so take that for what it's worth. But I'll take tavern style pizza and rank it up there with the best of them. (In fact, we just got back from Vito & Nick's). That said, I personally wouldn't say Chicago has the best pizza in the world, but I do love the diversity of styles now available (and that's a fairly recent development), so, right now, it may very well be my favorite city for pizza. That's not something I would have said ten or fifteen years ago.

Binko wrote:

Habibi wrote:I grew up in the city city, not the suburbs. And the best pizza I've had in Chicago is/was Great Lake.

I mostly agree, but I'm not really a fan of deep dish pizza (never even ate any until I was in high school--and I was born in Back of the Yards and grew up next door in Brighton Park/Archer Heights), so take that for what it's worth. But I'll take tavern style pizza and rank it up there with the best of them. (In fact, we just got back from Vito & Nick's). That said, I personally wouldn't say Chicago has the best pizza in the world, but I do love the diversity of styles now available (and that's a fairly recent development), so, right now, it may very well be my favorite city for pizza. That's not something I would have said ten or fifteen years ago.

I wholeheartedly agree. Chicago has an amazing diversity of pizza right now - the tavern-style thin crust (purveyed by V&N, Candlelite, D'Agostino's, et al), deep-dish (the usual suspects - Lou Malnatti's, Giordano's...), stuffed (Art of Pizza), pan (Burt's and Pequod's), Roman (Pizzeria Rustica, Pizza Metro), New Haven (Piece), artisan East Coast thin crust (Coalfire, Armitage Pizza), East Coast "slice shop" pizza (Cafe Luigi, Gigio's, Santullo's), Quad Cities (Roots), Neopolitan (Nella, Spacca Napoli...) and every hybrid in between (e.g. Pizzeria Serio's Neopolitan - New York mash-up).

As I wrpte upthread, I'm not a huge fan of Chicago-style thin crust (the crust is too crispy for my tastes, probably because the dough is rolled out using a sheeter). However, my wife loves it and I'm glad that we have choices. I used to live in Memphis and I know what it's like not to have very many pizza options.

Don't forget Detroit style. Jet's is a dirt cheap chain, but if you stay away from the sausage it's a pretty good example of the genre with decent dough and cheese for a Domino's/Pizza Hut type setup. Giordano's is stuffed, BTW. I'm more of a pizza maker than a pizza eater, but I agree that the variety of good-to-decent pies in Chicago right now is remarkable. The following are good examples I've had over the past few months just hanging around watching sports or attending kids birthday parties. Granted, several on this list were ordered for a one-stop "pizza tour" I organized for a class reunion.

Tavern-Marie's
Deep Dish-Malnati's Lincolnwood original
Pan-Pequod's Lincoln Park
Stuffed- (not a fan but) Art of Pizza
Bakery-D'Amato's
VPN-Spacca Napoli
NY slice-Santullo's
"Hybrid/New"- Coalfire, ORD
Detroit-Jet's
Vaguely Venetian- Apart (guys are from Bolzano, actually)
Balkan- Pizza Art Cafe
Roman-Metro
New Haven-Piece
Free- Sabatino's pizza bread

What I haven't tried yet, and might not:

Zapiekanka (Polish/ketchup)
Quad City (pizza with nachos or spaghetti on top doesn't appeal)-Roots?
Madison (ditto mashed potatoes, "pene Alfredo") - Ian's
California Pizza Kitchen
Pizza pot pie-Chicago Pizza and Oven Grinder

What I miss:

Argentine-Penguin

ld111134 wrote:deep-dish (the usual suspects - Lou Malnatti's, Giordano's...), stuffed (Art of Pizza),

Minor nitpick: Giordano's should be in the stuffed category. (Although you can call stuffed a sub-set of deep-dish, but it looks like we're making a distinction here.)

As I wrpte upthread, I'm not a huge fan of Chicago-style thin crust (the crust is too crispy for my tastes, probably because the dough is rolled out using a sheeter).

Chicago-style thin crust is all over the map in terms of crispiness. Most of the thin crust I've had is usually pretty pliable. Yesterday's trip to V&N's was unusual in that we didn't even ask for the pizza well-done, and it came out cracker crisp--I've never had it like that in my dozens of trips to V&Ns. There's usually plenty of bend to it (you can fold it over if you wanted to--well, at least anything but the edge pieces. So it's kind of nice compromise. Like crispy? Get the edges. Like floppy? Get the inner pieces.) That said, it's not as floppy as a New York style pizza, of course. It's rare that I've had a pizza I'd truly consider "cracker crust" (like Zaffiro's in Milwaukee) here in Chicago. Maybe Candlelite, although I haven't been there in ages and don't know whether they still make it like that.

I was going to mention Detroit style, too. I still have yet to make it out to Jet's here in Chicago, but I can't pass through Detroit without stopping at Buddy's.

Also, I kind of like the variations within the Chicago styles from time to time. Like Home Run Inn is kind of unusual to me with its heavy buttery crust, and Barnaby's with its oddball almost pie-like cornmeal crust.

Binko wrote:

ld111134 wrote:deep-dish (the usual suspects - Lou Malnatti's, Giordano's...), stuffed (Art of Pizza),

Minor nitpick: Giordano's should be in the stuffed category. (Although you can call stuffed a sub-set of deep-dish, but it looks like we're making a distinction here.)

As I wrpte upthread, I'm not a huge fan of Chicago-style thin crust (the crust is too crispy for my tastes, probably because the dough is rolled out using a sheeter).

Chicago-style thin crust is all over the map in terms of crispiness. Most of the thin crust I've had is usually pretty pliable. Yesterday's trip to V&N's was unusual in that we didn't even ask for the pizza well-done, and it came out cracker crisp--I've never had it like that in my dozens of trips to V&Ns. There's usually plenty of bend to it (you can fold it over if you wanted to--well, at least anything but the edge pieces. So it's kind of nice compromise. Like crispy? Get the edges. Like floppy? Get the inner pieces.) That said, it's not as floppy as a New York style pizza, of course. It's rare that I've had a pizza I'd truly consider "cracker crust" (like Zaffiro's in Milwaukee) here in Chicago. Maybe Candlelite, although I haven't been there in ages and don't know whether they still make it like that.

I was going to mention Detroit style, too. I still have yet to make it out to Jet's here in Chicago, but I can't pass through Detroit without stopping at Buddy's.

Also, I kind of like the variations within the Chicago styles from time to time. Like Home Run Inn is kind of unusual to me with its heavy buttery crust, and Barnaby's with its oddball almost pie-like cornmeal crust.

One of my favorite Chicago (tavern)-style variations is subbing Alfredo sauce for the pizza sauce and topping with artichoke hearts, mushrooms and black olives.

Binko wrote:

ld111134 wrote:deep-dish (the usual suspects - Lou Malnatti's, Giordano's...), stuffed (Art of Pizza),

Minor nitpick: Giordano's should be in the stuffed category. (Although you can call stuffed a sub-set of deep-dish, but it looks like we're making a distinction here.)

I think it's not a minor nitpick and I don't think anyone can reasonably call stuffed a subset of deep dish. Stuffed pizza has two crusts, a ton of cheese, and has a crust made with shortening. Deep dish has one crust, often made with a little corn oil and either butter or vegetable oil. They also have different fairly traceable histories. Deep dish started in 1943 at what is now called Uno's. Stuffed started in 1971 (if you believe Nancy's website) or 1974. And both parties that claim to have invented stuffed pizza trace it to a stuffed pizza from Italy. Now, it's probably not a coincidence that stuffed pizza (Chicago version) began in a city that had embraced thick round pizzas. I'd say that makes deep dish and stuffed friends, but not family.