Folks, we've now pulled six replies to the above post. queequeg's_steak stated personal opinions. You can agree or disagree, but please avoid personal attacks.

Darren
For the moderators

The post above seems like a deliberate attempt to Troll.

If it isnt then it should at least be edited to remove the instances where the poster suggests that:

"It's over -- you went, you liked the mediocre food"

"you liked waiting hours for mediocre food"

"But when you spend hours in line, when you build up the idea of something in your head, you just can't possibly admit that it isn't what you want it to be, what you want to believe ... "

Unless I assume the idea of a helpful discussion is having everyone that disagrees with this post spending time to tell the LTH community that:

I didnt find the food medicore.

I did not like waiting in line for said food.

I did not spend hours in line building up the idea of something in my head.

Nothing about the place made Chicago look bad.

I will blather on about how much I enjoyed my meals at Hot Dougs, and would truly welcome "a beer being thrown in my face"

That's not opinion, it's Trolling

Bspar wrote:The post above seems like a deliberate attempt to Troll.

If it isnt then it should at least be edited to remove the instances where the poster suggests that:

"It's over -- you went, you liked the mediocre food"

"you liked waiting hours for mediocre food"

"But when you spend hours in line, when you build up the idea of something in your head, you just can't possibly admit that it isn't what you want it to be, what you want to believe ... "

Unless I assume the idea of a helpful discussion is having everyone that disagrees with this post spending time to tell the LTH community that:

I didnt find the food medicore.

I did not like waiting in line for said food.

I did not spend hours in line building up the idea of something in my head.

Nothing about the place made Chicago look bad.

I will blather on about how much I enjoyed my meals at Hot Dougs, and would truly welcome "a beer being thrown in my face"

That's not opinion, it's Trolling

Agreed.
If the responses got pulled for personal insults then the post by q_s itself should be pulled for the same reasons.
It was intentionally insulting.

But... Doug was so nice, how could the food possibly not be amazing?

I would have typically remained silent, but since everyone is piling on here with personal attacks I'm going to come out in defense of queequeg's "creative essay".

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions. I see nothing wrong with someone venting on this forum as long as it’s on topic, and this subject couldn't be more pertinent. I don’t think the queequeg’s post was an exclusive attack at the people of this board. To me it felt directed at the people of Chicago in general, and an obvious attempt at humor. Apparently, he had personal experiences with non-LTHers dragging him there, as we all have, so I wouldn’t take it personally. If you feel he was directly attacking your opinions, I'd say suck it up and learn to live with it.

Since queequeg called out the silent majority, I feel obligated to come out of the closet on this one and at least on subject of the food, stand alongside him. I agree that the stuff at Hot Doug’s was at least slightly overrated, and if you dislike wasting time in a line it’s not worth the trouble. I’ve only been 2 or 3 times, but of the 5 or 6 sausages I’ve tried, none of the meats themselves seemed special. The “game” meat was always a background note if present at all; sometimes I wondered if it was really even in there. On the rare occasion that you might have actually tasted the bear or rattlesnake, etc, it was masked by the copious toppings that always seemed way off balance and overpowering to me. Furthermore, it always slightly irked me that the sausages weren't even made by the restaurant.

Let me also add that it was never the lines that turned me off of Hot Dougs. I don’t even dislike lines, they can be really fun. They create a camaraderie. They force people to be more social. There is almost always chatting among strangers. The long wait and affirmation that you picked the right restaurant does make the food seem to taste better. While I think saying it "made Chicago look bad" may have been an overstatement, I think Chicago should be known for other things.

queequeg's_steak wrote:Virtually everyone I took there -- because EVERYONE who visited Chicago over the last 5 years felt it was a holy duty to go there -- found it underwhelming.

Honestly, I can relate. Replace "Hot Doug's" with "Kuma's Corner" and I could have written this same post a couple years ago. I almost began to dread friends coming to town because I knew where that meant we had to eat. It happens.

I'm genuinely sorry you had to visit the place enough times to be this hot under the collar about it. I thought Hot Doug's was okay and I know people who went fairly frequently, I didn't think it was that great, so I just stopped going with.

I'll chime in quickly here because I really liked Doug's, and I really love LTH, and I dislike trolls who would ruin the quality of discussion on this forum. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the restaurant; threatening to "throw beer in the face" of anyone who praises it is simply passive-aggressive internet posturing, and should have no place here. Making outlandish threats of physical violence behind the safety of internet anonimity is the lamest way to support an opinion or argument. Such childish behavior is a step below ad hominem attacks and name calling. Also undermining queequeg's rant is the fact that the he/she admits to taking friends their numerous times, despite an avowed hate for the place. Maybe QQ should be dumping beer on his or her own self.

I didn't see others' responses to the troll's rant before they were removed; so I have no idea if others expressed similar feelings and had their posts removed. If that was the case, I don't see why the original trolling post should remain.

That foie dog, man. How could anyone not love it? It will be missed.

I'll just say that while I wasn't the hugest fan of Hot Doug's for similar reasons to Laikom, I try to live by the wise words of jimswside to his adorable daughter-- "don't yuck another person's yum." I think there's plenty of room here to say you don't like something (preferably including WHY) or think it's overrated without insulting or threatening people. And while QS may not have specifically insulted or threatened the folks here, it was close enough to be not very "LTH" like. But that's just me.

The one thing Hot Doug's did for me was to expand my concept of what a hot dog could be. Not to say that everything was perfect. I wasn't enthused by the duck fat fries, and did feel that some of the sausages were overwhelmed by the toppings as Laikom stated. I did think the foie dog was stellar and will miss it dearly. Was the food great enough to stand in line for hours? Not for me, even though i lived walking distance to the place. While I enjoyed the food and the creative spin on things, I always found myself opting to eat somewhere else because I didn't feel like waiting in line.

Maybe I did not eat there as often as others, I would guess between 12 and 20 times, but I NEVER stood in a long line. I would make it a drive by place. Going downtown, off at Addison to Elston east on Roscoe, if the line was long I would pass it up and head south on California to Diversey and maybe hit that Mexican place on Ashland with the Al Pastor tacos, or wait till I was coming back. Coming back the reverse route. I was amazed how many times I was able to slip in eat and be gone in under 45 minutes. It wasn't a requirement to stand in line for hours, if you were flexible. I will say that I never had a bad sausage there and I would usually get at least two different items. I found his dressing of the sausage to always be imaginative, maybe it was formulaic but it worked for me. Doug was great the place was one of a kind and I was glad to have been able to eat there. Nothing will ever replace it in my mind.

As far as throwing a beer, That hardly seems like a mature way to deal with those who's opinion differs from you. Just make sure its a craft beer if you toss it my way.

I love Royal Lichter's GIF.

While some can't understand why one would wait in line for reputable sausage, most can't understand why one would click on a 22-page-long thread of a place they know they hate just to get their troll on.

Also: Doug Sohn is snarky? Get a dictionary.

Darren72 wrote:Folks, we've now pulled six replies to the above post. queequeg's_steak stated personal opinions. You can agree or disagree, but please avoid personal attacks.

Darren
For the moderators

I think it would be a lot more appropriate to delete an inane post that attacks a much beloved former Chicago business for no apparent reason. It isn't possible to tell if the guy ever set foot in the place from his comments. it's more like "nobody ever goes there anymore because it's too crowded".

queequeg's_steak wrote:Oh, and I promise you from now until the end of time: each and every last one of you that blathers about the good ol' days of Hot Doug's will get a beer in your face. I have good hearing and good aim -- even if you're halfway across the room.

What sort of response is appropriate to an asinine statement such as this? Advising QS as to my schedule and letting him know that I will be recommending Doug Sohn for sainthood in a speech given by megaphone? Need to throw beer in someone's face? I'll be there.

I'm not saying that deleting threatening posts is wrong, but I am saying that banning some trolling idiot would be more appropriate. If you delete the unnecessary inflammatory post first, you don't need to deal with the backlash. We don't have to suffer fools so gladly.

deesher wrote:

queequeg's_steak wrote:Oh, and I promise you from now until the end of time: each and every last one of you that blathers about the good ol' days of Hot Doug's will get a beer in your face. I have good hearing and good aim -- even if you're halfway across the room.

What sort of response is appropriate to an asinine statement such as this? Advising QS as to my schedule and letting him know that I will be recommending Doug Sohn for sainthood in a speech given by megaphone? Need to throw beer in someone's face? I'll be there.

I'm not saying that deleting threatening posts is wrong, but I am saying that banning some trolling idiot would be more appropriate. If you delete the unnecessary inflammatory post first, you don't need to deal with the backlash. We don't have to suffer fools so gladly.

I think you're right, deesher. We agree that q_s's post was borderline but in the interest of not squelching a dissenting point of view, we decided to leave it stand. In the end, I don't think the threat of thrown beer was to be taken seriously but it does seem a very odd way to respond to someone liking -- or even loving -- a place now closed that you didn't care for. In all my years of hanging around here, the comment stands out as one of the more notable ones. For that reason alone, it's probably worth letting the post stand in perpetuity.

=R=
for the Moderators

I for one plan to loudly declare my love for Doug's at every public opportunity in the hope of crossing paths with q_s. The sight, smell, taste and feel of q_s's wasted beer (hopefully a really expensive microbrew) dripping down my forehead will give me great satisfaction. In fact, I will wait for him/her to order a second pint, and before he/she has a chance to take the first sip, I will declare my love again.

I have very little pride or self esteem, so I can go all night. If I can bankrupt this individual via unconsumed, flung beer, all the better.

Buddy

This is now the wurst thread ever.

Doug's food was fun, but the whole experience is what drew people there. Similarly, in my industry, I tell people that Aaron Franklin's brisket is not why you go to Franklin's in Austin, TX. I've been. Trust me, there's better (not to de-rail, just stick with my train of thought here). It is the line. Meeting people from all walks of life, all areas of the country (or world at times), then finally chatting with Doug himself as you placed your sausage order (now starving).

It was a lighting-in-a-bottle success, one that can't be re-created (look at Franks n Dawgs - not nearly as successful, though executing a more difficult menu - including making their own sausages).

So, was it the best food in Chicago? Doug would even tell you "no". But it was fun, and it was ours, and it was enjoyed by many.

God Bless America for freedom of speech, but arguing about whether the food quality was good is totally subjective - it was clearly popular, and made a name for itself - going out on top. the end.

rubbbqco wrote:Doug's food was fun, but the whole experience is what drew people there. Similarly, in my industry, I tell people that Aaron Franklin's brisket is not why you go to Franklin's in Austin, TX. I've been. Trust me, there's better (not to de-rail, just stick with my train of thought here). It is the line. Meeting people from all walks of life, all areas of the country (or world at times), then finally chatting with Doug himself as you placed your sausage order (now starving).

It was a lighting-in-a-bottle success, one that can't be re-created (look at Franks n Dawgs - not nearly as successful, though executing a more difficult menu - including making their own sausages).

So, was it the best food in Chicago? Doug would even tell you "no". But it was fun, and it was ours, and it was enjoyed by many.

God Bless America for freedom of speech, but arguing about whether the food quality was good is totally subjective - it was clearly popular, and made a name for itself - going out on top. the end.

Good post. On a recent visit to family in Sacramento we took a day trip to the Bay Area. Stood in line at Tartine Bakery for about an hour. Bread and pastries all very good....worth standing in line for an hour, not really. Talking to locals and other tourists compensates and makes the experience fun.

Side note. During that same trip went Chez Panisse Cafe. Very good, not great. For dessert we had fig tart. The next day, my talented sister-in law and her mom headed over to the neighbor's fig tree and made a tart of their own. Bottom line.....Alice Waters, watch your back!!

rubbbqco wrote:Doug's food was fun, but the whole experience is what drew people there. Similarly, in my industry, I tell people that Aaron Franklin's brisket is not why you go to Franklin's in Austin, TX. I've been. Trust me, there's better.

Not so fast, first I'd ask how many times? Because I've been too and there wasn't better, just as good? Sure, but not better, trust me. I mean there's a reason every person I was in line with was from Austin. I wasn't the biggest fan of Hot Doug's but wouldn't it be nice if people joined in on productive posts or shared something new instead of being so easily offended by what I thought was a funny post? he/she wanted to stir up discussion and thats happened.

Nothing wrong with queeqeg's post in my opinion. If we can wax rhapsodic about restaurants on this board, then it’s only fair that we be allowed to foam at the mouth from time to time. Sometimes you gotta let the poison out.

I never had a bad meal there, but I always found myself admiring Doug's marketing acumen more than the food. He definitely knew how to create and maintain a buzz. I think his next career should be in politics as he is good at making complete strangers feel like old friends. I have a natural distrust for this sort of personality type but there's no question that Doug was very good at parlaying it into his business success.

The food was sometimes very good (Sonoran dog), at other times it was not bad (various game sausages). It was very seldom worth the wait.

I don't mind queeqeg's post either - whether you agree or not it was honest and to the point. I've had posts like that myself. I never had Hot Doug's so I can't put my 2 cents in. Speaking for my brother and a friend of mine who are big time eaters, they loved Hot Doug's as did many people and one person's post will do nothing to tarnish the memories. I agree on the touristy thing and comparing it to how Kuma's became so big, but if it's good, it's good. With or without hipsters and National TV.

But seriously, if you're really offended by his post, go get your shinebox - this is Chicago!

I like Doug the person, have liked Hot Doug's the Sausage Superstore and Encased Meat Emporium since it was on Roscoe. What I thought special, unique, about Hot Doug's was Doug's ability to connect with each and every customer in line for a minute or three. In that brief span of time he looked them in the eye, was never impatient, always with a slight Mona Lisa smile on his face. He gave them what I call the Hot Doug Moment, its a special talent, and not one that can be faked.

Eddie Lakin, of Edzo's, has, to a slightly lesser degree, the same ability. Its more than charisma, more than liking people, basically
indefinable.

Doug also rose to national fame on the ridiculous short lived foie gras ban, he served foie, got a $500 fine and $500,000 worth of press. Another thing Doug did was never dumb down his product, no matter how busy he got he always cared about what was going out on the plate.

I'll miss Hot Doug's and wish Doug the very best.

Hot Doug's, count me a fan!

So the last time I was there, we'd asked Doug about his post-retirement plans. He said he planned on finally going out to lunch, and that a lot of chefs "owed him one". I thought that was awesome.

Do we have any Doug sightings around Chicago? I feel like Doug sightings has the potential to be the next social media craze.

Okay, some people like queequeg's post. It's "honest". It's "funny". It "provokes discussion". I may or may not agree.

But I don't understand why the heck we were all denied the opportunity to read at least six dissenting opinions.

Weren't they "honest" enough?


[Edited for civility.]

Roger Ramjet wrote:Okay, some people like queequeg's post. It's "honest". It's "funny". It "provokes discussion". I may or may not agree.

But I don't understand why the fuck we were all denied the opportunity to read at least six dissenting opinions.

Weren't they "honest" enough?

Whether or not they were dissenting opinions, snark, funny, or whatever, they were pulled because, by making personal attacks on another poster, they violated the posting guidelines. It's great to disagree, but there's no reason for ad hominem attacks.

The posting guidelines are here: LTHForum Posting Guidelines. The first line is:

If we were to reduce the entire LTH Forum posting policy to four words, it would be these: Be civil. Be relevant.

I really liked Hot Doug's. I can understand why many people didn't like it. I don't like lines, and I never visited it on a weekend. However I did eat there scores of times early in the week around 11:45 or so, with no lines at all. I had friends come into town who wanted to go there on a Saturday and I dropped them off and went to run errands - it's as simple as that.

I think it's very important to remember a few things - what the price point was at Doug's, how long it had been around, and how consistent it was. Many businesses sprung up copying the model after they'd been around for a few years, some more successful than others. Because of that it started to seem less unique, but the quality was always solid. I loved the simplicity of what they did. For me, it was always a great deal for the price charged, and if you went at the right time the lines weren't bad (until they announced the closing of course).

I did see a few of the posts that were removed, and I do understand how they were seen as nothing more than attacks on the original post. That said, I don't think they were any worse than the original post. I think it's important to look at how many ad hominem attacks on people's knowledge and judgement exist in the post that kicked all this off:

queequeg's_steak wrote:You bought into a hipster* version of the standard tourist spectacle -- the fact that the place was "off the beaten path" or "in a non-touristy neighborhood" did not good food make….

Still, you all bought it. You praised mediocre food because the snarky guy with the inconvenient hours made you feel like he was selling something special. The line somehow reified your sense that the food just had to be good. …

…don't try to pretend that your silly little hot dog stand was anything more than that. Don't act as if someone who never went to Hot Doug's missed anything other than an overrated tourist trap….

I suppose you bought into the cult of personality, and like all people who fall under the spell of a cult, it made you feel good…

Oh, and I promise you from now until the end of time: each and every last one of you that blathers about the good ol' days of Hot Doug's will get a beer in your face. I have good hearing and good aim -- even if you're halfway across the room.

While I certainly think there needs to be dissent on any discussion board, I think there are plenty of ad hominem attacks on the judgement and intelligence of anyone who likes Hot Doug's in that post (ended in a physical threat to waste good beer, a cardinal sin). The three deleted posts I saw didn't strike me as being any worse than that.

But whatever, when all is said and done it's all just a tempest in a teacup, and I'm not losing any sleep over it.

I think the difference is that the attacks in queequeg's post were to a generalized "you," while presumably the attacks in the six removed posts were directed to a very specific, very non-generalized queequeg.

ronnie_suburban wrote:In all my years of hanging around here, the comment stands out as one of the more notable ones. For that reason alone, it's probably worth letting the post stand in perpetuity.

=R=
for the Moderators

Agreed. A good policy..

JimInLoganSquare wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:In all my years of hanging around here, the comment stands out as one of the more notable ones. For that reason alone, it's probably worth letting the post stand in perpetuity.

=R=
for the Moderators

Agreed. A good policy..

Welp, that should just about end all of the uproar against queequegs for their feelings about Hot Doug's.
Perfect post, JiLS.

Someone needs to code in some like buttons