How long to roast the *&(%@$+! turkey?

Since I only do a whole turkey once a year, I can never remember how long I roasted it the year before. So I took to the internet and was shocked at the variation in times. I'm trying to figure out what time to put the damn thing in and (for a 13 pound unstuffed bird) I have found a truly astonishing range of times. I fully understand that there are variables and that an exact answer is not possible but still, I have seen--on sites I would trust--everything from 2-3/4 hours to 4-1/2 hours. Help!

(Yes, I know the target temperatures and will use a thermometer, but I still need to know approximately how long it will take.)

There's a useful table with times by weight for stuffed and unstuffed turkey on this web page: http://whatscookingamerica.net/Poultry/TurkeyBasics.htm

Also tables for defrosting times; scroll down past those to the table for cooking times. For a 13-pound unstuffed turkey, the cooking time looks like 3 hours and 20 minutes at 325 degrees.

I did not know til I saw this page that you can in fact cook a frozen turkey without defrosting it nor how long it takes to cook a frozen turkey. Makes all the "I forgot to defrost the turkey" hand-wringing seem overwrought. I also think I might try cooking a frozen chicken sometime to test it out.

Moe Rubenzahl sez 2.5 hours from open the oven door to serving. Then there's the Harold McGee Sternal Icing Technique to consider..., or spatchcock the bird in <45 minutes. Or just make lasagna instead like my Mayflower ancestor "Buckles" Pellegrino taught us to do.

Joe, thanks. I'm beginning to think ol' Buckles may have had the best approach!

Choey wrote:Moe Rubenzahl sez 2.5 hours from open the oven door to serving. Then there's the Harold McGee Sternal Icing Technique to consider..., or spatchcock the bird in <45 minutes. Or just make lasagna instead like my Mayflower ancestor "Buckles" Pellegrino taught us to do.

It is perfect weather for lasagna.

I can't take Moe's approach because it involves heating the oven to 500 and cooking the turkey for the first half hour at 500, which would mean 45 minutes or so of the smoke alarm going off over and over again.

Katie,
I didn't mean to ignore your post. It just illustrates the precise problem I've been having: every website tells me something different. And the sites I consulted were all sites that I have used before and trust completely. So how do I know which site to choose? If they had different by 15 or 30 minutes, I would have been okay. But a range of almost 2 full hours is a problem.

I do occasionally make turkey, just not for Thanksgiving (after several Thanksgivings where the lasagna was devoured, while the turkey went almost untouched, I 86'd the turkey). I can make one in 2 hours, unstuffed, by letting it sit for several hours at room temp before roasting. I've dinked with hot start/cooler finish, cool start/hot finish, and I can't tell the diff. Now I roast at 375, then use convection the last half hour or so to crisp up the skin (staying on convection all the way works, too, but I usually over-estimate the time). Spatchcocking by starting skin-down in a very hot iron skillet, then flipped and into a 450 oven still works best for me, the folds of the bird liberally jammed with herbs and massaged with a suitable unguent.

Coda alla vaccinara would be an appropriate obeisance to Zio Buckles, too.

Ah...had the coda alla vaccinara at Checchino. Not sure I want to trifle with that memory. I'm sure your zio would understand.

Don't worry, Gypsy Boy, I didn't think you had ignored my post. Choey makes a point that was on my mind: the fact that different sources give such a wide range of times for a specific narrow weight range (e.g., 12 to 14 pounds) suggests to me that there's at least one other variable not being considered, and I suspect the biggest one is the starting temperature. (Shape of cooking vessel also comes to mind.) Just barely defrosted versus thoroughly defrosted versus on the counter for a half hour or hour first (don't know if I'd go several hours!), that leads to a range of starting temperatures. Multiply that temperature range by the weight, and it makes sense to me that the bigger the bird, the more that starting temperature variation contributes to cooking time variation.

When in doubt, I go with Julia Child on these sorts of things. She advocates a 325 oven and estimates an unstuffed 12-16 lb. bird will take 3.5-3.75 hours to roast. She also notes in The Way to Cook, "A chunky big-breasted turkey will take a little longer per pound than the longer thinner type," and that "even a 14-pound turkey takes over an hour to cool down to tepid." So my practice is to give the turkey the longer time she suggests and tent it with foil if and when it is done earlier. I've found the Hoka turkeys I've done the last few years do come in under the time she gives, but then they do hold quite well until we are ready to carve. Good luck to us and all our fellow turkey roasters!

Turkeys do vary from suppliers, some have more water weight than others, we used to get as close to an 'all natural' bird as we could until the sellers intepreted 'all natural' to mean any and all types of additives, as long as two chemicals were not mixed together to dervive the additive. Now the best one can do is either purchased a 'minimally processed' bird which still has water retained or get one from a local farmer or a place like John's Live Poutry.
Whether it's stuffed or not makes a big difference and even the temp of the stuffing used can effect the time, so the best is to use some sort of measurement device such as a Thermapen which we have found invaluable.
The type of oven, size, and whether convection or not alos has an effect.
Our turkey is one a batch of 40 a local friend raised. He lost 10, so only 30 made it.
All that said, the rule of thumb for an unstuffed bird is 15min/# at 375F.
Then using a sharp knife cut down at the leg thigh joint until you hit bone. The liquid should be clear and the flesh cooked, other wise it's back into the oven.
Good luck!-Dick

For what it's worth, I used to way overdo the turkey prep. I'd find and follow the recipe that had the most steps and the most exotic ingredients. Brining, under-skin rubs, complex stuffings. Then I read Mark Bittman's 2012 recipe in the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/18/magaz ... /0oM46M3XA

Best turkey I ever made and simple as all get out. Like EvA, I've bought Hoka the last few years. I devote all culinary creativity to the sides now.

un-sous vide in oven...

http://www.splendidtable.org/story/this ... -you-sleep

(haven't tried it, but seems reasonable)

sazerac wrote:un-sous vide in oven...

http://www.splendidtable.org/story/this ... -you-sleep

(haven't tried it, but seems reasonable)

170F roasting is below my turkey temperature safety guidelines!
I get quite a kick out of these people that make careers out of trying to 'invent' a new way of doing something that has been done successfully for decades. One guy even publishes a magazine and has a TV show based on the premise.
Prepping a turkey is very simple, can be done quickly and cooking is again simple.-Dick

budrichard wrote:

sazerac wrote:un-sous vide in oven...

http://www.splendidtable.org/story/this ... -you-sleep

(haven't tried it, but seems reasonable)

170F roasting is below my turkey temperature safety guidelines!
I get quite a kick out of these people that make careers out of trying to 'invent' a new way of doing something that has been done successfully for decades. One guy even publishes a magazine and has a TV show based on the premise.
Prepping a turkey is very simple, can be done quickly and cooking is again simple.-Dick

I'll never do it with a turkey because I use a small Sous Vide Supreme, but there are safety rules that apply to sous vide cooking. . . you just need to make sure you understand them. But I do a 72-hour short rib and it's better than any traditional short rib cooking method that exists -- tender as demanded . . . yet medium rare and fat sufficiently rendered.

One turkey in the smoker, one turkey in the oven. both 14/lb natural birds, overnight brine, backbone removed, leg/thigh joint broken.

WSM took 2:40 to 155 in the breast, no idea of smoker temp, but I'd guess 250 or slightly less.
Oven took 2:20 to 155 in the breast, 350 oven temp all the way. Turkey on a roasting rack over an inch or so of water, scattered onion, carrot, garlic and thyme.

Both birds were moist, meaty, tender, really nice examples of T-Day birds, with the smoked my personal favorite. (no surprise there)

20 adults and a few kids pretty much demolished the birds with my sister in-laws Italian sausage stuffing the clear flavor winner of everything served.

Hope all had a nice Thanksgiving.

T-Day bird on a WSM about an hour in.

Followed the Russ Parsons dry brine recipe from Food52 and was really happy with the way it turned out. Gunthorp bird, hair over 17lbs, seasoned only with a Simon & Garfunkel bouquet garni in the cavity and a bit of butter to baste. Best bird I've had. No more commercial turkeys for me!

My MILs oven seemed a bit cool (and we opened it more than we probably should've) so it took a bit longer but otherwise, I thought the brine and cook instructions here were perfect. Next time I should tie up the legs--meant to and forgot. But nothing dried out so all was good. Hope everyone had a delicious day!

Gary--you preferred the smoked bird?? really?? Quel surprise!

Remarkable thread. Thanksgiving turkey anxiety is a well-known malady amongst the cookerati. And this thread shows precisely why that anxiety exists. There was a time, oncet, when I slathered the pore bird with mustard and stuffed it in a paper bag. Really.

I finally gave up on repeatedly pulling the bird from the oven in order to insert the Thermopen. Nowadays, I stick the digital probe in the breast, roughly follow Cook's guide to flipping the bird over and around, and have a couple glasses of red whilst I'm waiting. But I must admit, Joe's lasagna option is attractive...

Of course, up here in Canadia, American Thanksgiving is just another Thursday (yesterday hereabouts: no turkey, bit of football, and, as it was the last day of the semester, I gave my philosophy class their final quiz), even though, of all the crazinesses in the world, today is vendredi noir in Québec, Black Friday in the rest of Canada. Go figger.

Have a great holiday, good pals!

Geo

For what it's worth, 13 pounds took 2-3/4 hours at 335 (thought I'd split the difference). I pulled it when I hit 180 in the thigh (the turkey's thigh, that is).

180 sounds high--was it dry?

Nope; I'd read in several places to roast the white meat to 165 and/or the thigh to 180.

Gypsy Boy wrote:Nope; I'd read in several places to roast the white meat to 165 and/or the thigh to 180.

Yeah, that's what I shoot for, too. In my experience, anything less than 180 F in the thigh can be a bit tough and unpalatable, though generally safe to eat. Brining helps keep the breast moist while getting the thigh to that temperature.

No pics but like Gary, I oven-roasted one bird and smoked a second one over apple and lump charcoal on my Komodo Kamado. Both 15-pound birds had been brined for about 24 hours and both turned out great. The oven bird took about 2.5 hours @ 350 F and the smoked bird took about 3 hours @ 325 F but there was whiskey involved, so don't quote me on those cooking times.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:In my experience, anything less than 180 F in the thigh can be a bit tough and unpalatable, though generally safe to eat.

Ronnie,

While I am sure your and GB's turkeys were tasty, I take turkeys off at 155/breast, 165/thigh, never had a problem with underdone bird and/or tough unpalatable thigh. Not directed to you as I realize you are aware, but carry forward cooking accounts for another 5 or so degrees upward.

I've done quite a few turkeys to these temps, and these are the temps I've given for the turkey technique in Low & Slow 2, spring of 2015, I'm obviously confident in these numbers.

That said, I'm always happy to eat anything you, or GB for that matter, cook so don't hesitate to have me over for a 180/thigh turkey anytime you wish.

Regards,
Gary

Agree with Gary--the dark meat was wonderful--not tough at all--maybe because the recipe called for concentrating the salt brine on the breasts and the thighs specifically. And with the oven I was working with, I was glad not to have to go any longer than we did

G Wiv wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:In my experience, anything less than 180 F in the thigh can be a bit tough and unpalatable, though generally safe to eat.

Ronnie,

While I am sure your and GB's turkeys were tasty, I take turkeys off at 155/breast, 165/thigh, never had a problem with underdone bird and/or tough unpalatable thigh. Not directed to you as I realize you are aware, but carry forward cooking accounts for another 5 or so degrees upward.

I've done quite a few turkeys to these temps, and these are the temps I've given for the turkey technique in Low & Slow 2, spring of 2015, I'm obviously confident in these numbers.

That said, I'm always happy to eat anything you, or GB for that matter, cook so don't hesitate to have me over for a 180/thigh turkey anytime you wish.

Regards,
Gary

I actually should have been more clear. I shoot for 180 F final temp on the thighs and pulled them at 170, allowing for carry-over.

=R=

I too shoot for 150/165...never a problem with tough dark meat. This year I went with a dry brine, spatchcocked, and it was the best turkey I've made...really outstanding. It only took about 1 hour, 15 minutes to cook and the target temperatures were reached at the very same time, as should be the case. Not sure I could ever go back to the more traditional presentation.

I also spatchcocked a 14lb bird, and did mine on the WSM acting as a grill roaster (no water pan, on the top grate, top closed, apple wood for smoke) and it was done in about 1.5 hrs. Really tasty.

G Wiv wrote:...I take turkeys off at 155/breast, 165/thigh, never had a problem with underdone bird and/or tough unpalatable thigh...

I've done quite a few turkeys to these temps, and these are the temps I've given for the turkey technique in Low & Slow 2, spring of 2015, I'm obviously confident in these numbers.

Chef G Wiv is exactly right. Brine, no brine or pure--just salt, pepper and some garlic cloves, marjoram and thyme in the cavity my personal preference.

The secret is the temperature, and the secret weapon is a Therma-pen. 3 second response.
http://www.amazon.com/ThermoWorks-Splas ... B003P601S2

Even with backbone removed, it will help greatly to make even temperatures if you semi-split the thigh-leg and wing-breast joints a la Jacques Pepin.

I realize it's strange but I roast my turkey early in the day, undercook it by a few degrees, let it rest and carve it before the guests arrive. Then when I reheat for serving the slight undercooking from earlier keeps it moist and not overcooked, we don't have the added mess of the carving when everything else is getting served, I can platter it to look pretty and I can focus on carving the beef tenderloin just prior to serving which is so much simpler. Works for us, no complaints. Ever.

I do take a picture of the roasted bird so everyone can see how gorgeous it is .