Good effort. I disagree with Dolinsky docking points for variation though. I for one love the weird original Al's hot, which might well predate all the others in Chicago beefdom. The idea that Al's would have scored higher had they just cracked open a jar of Scala's giard is dumb. He also rails against Mario's for having icy ice. I can't help but envision a series of encounters with unimpressed locals and limited availabile wall space on Taylor Street that day. Otherwise the list is about what I'd expect, except for the Bari pan, and well reasoned. I like seeing Joe Boston's BBQ up there. After all these years it remains so close to civilization but so far from any real press or general awareness.

BR wrote:

eating while walking wrote:Also, that list puts Bari at the very bottom as a non-noteworthy beef. That's enough for me to discount the whole thing.

Well, I've been a huge fan of Bari and its Italian beef for a long time - one of my favorites in town. Then about two months ago, I was there and had an awful beef - dry and lacking the usual seasoning, rendering it almost flavorless. I was shocked. Had I never been there before, I would have decided never to return. But I know better and I'll be back (though it's kept me away for a bit). Unfortunately, that's the risk with anyone visiting a restaurant only once (be it a beef-a-thon, pho-a-thon, bagel-a-thon or anything of the like). Hell, I've had less than stellar visits to Johnnie's, Bob-O's and a few of my other favorites.

To me, that's a reason to consider Dolinsky's commentary along with that of other people you trust, rather than a reason to simply conclude that the guy must be a moron. Even typically consistent restaurants will have bad days. But as for the list, I appreciate it for the number and diversity of the places he visited, including many that get very little attention.

I know you already know, but for anyone else reading this and wondering. I went to Bari the other day (after reading the BS Dolinsky writeup). The Italian Beef was still, as it has been for the past 10 times i had it, the best beef I have had in the city. Thick slices of freshly cut meat.. the most beefy flavored meat in a naturally beefy tasting thick murky broth... TONS of (medium) giardiniera, loaded bottom side, under the meat. For better or worse, heavy on the oregano (I like it that way). Next time I think I am going to order a beef with an added Italian sausage... mmm...

JeffB wrote:I disagree with Dolinsky docking points for variation though. I for one love the weird original Al's hot, which might well predate all the others in Chicago beefdom. The idea that Al's would have scored higher had they just cracked open a jar of Scala's giard is dumb.

This is my issue here too. He seems to have a very baseline definition of what giardiniera should taste and look like, not unlike the mass produced brand you mention. He continually dogs the fresh/minimal style prevalent on the deep SW side in the Chickie's/ Pop's mode, as well as the ultra-spartan (though deeply marinated/ borderline funky) Al's style. Personally, I don't need cauliflower and carrots on my beef and prefer a less vinegared version as well– these textures and sharp flavors, to me, detract from the flavor of the beef. I like the clean aromatic combo of celery and peppers with a hot oiliness that penetrates into the layers of beef. Bari's giardiniere, while cooked down and melded, also offers a supporting role on their beef, highlighting the beef as the star of the show. Anyway, I pretty much love all giardiniera and am not gonna bitch about variations on the style.

Jefe wrote:

JeffB wrote:I disagree with Dolinsky docking points for variation though. I for one love the weird original Al's hot, which might well predate all the others in Chicago beefdom. The idea that Al's would have scored higher had they just cracked open a jar of Scala's giard is dumb.

This is my issue here too. He seems to have a very baseline definition of what giardiniera should taste and look like, not unlike the mass produced brand you mention. He continually dogs the fresh/minimal style prevalent on the deep SW side in the Chickie's/ Pop's mode, as well as the ultra-spartan (though deeply marinated/ borderline funky) Al's style. Personally, I don't need cauliflower and carrots on my beef and prefer a less vinegared version as well– these textures and sharp flavors, to me, detract from the flavor of the beef. I like the clean aromatic combo of celery and peppers with a hot oiliness that penetrates into the layers of beef. Bari's giardiniere, while cooked down and melded, also offers a supporting role on their beef, highlighting the beef as the star of the show. Anyway, I pretty much love all giardiniera and am not gonna bitch about variations on the style.

Great point. I think giard on beefs can be broken down into a few categories:

Standard - Johnnie's, most beef joints
Celery/red pepper - Al's, Scatchell's, Roma's
Serranos in oil - Max's
Fresh Jalapeno - Pop's, Jay's
Deli Style - Bari

No reason to penalize deviation from the standard. Ironically, the mushy Bari-style giardinera is my least favorite even though I love their beef sandwich. I thin the sandwich is great in spite of their giard, not because of it.

midas wrote:How did Beefee even make it the top 3100 let alone top 31? Wasn't that the place that had the most awful review of any beef place ever here on LTH? Just the fact that it comes wrapped in foil should disqualify it.

That's because it's not a Top 31, it's just ranked based on 31 places he went to. We all know better than to go to Beefee.

Steve Z's orginal report on Beefee was in 2004 during a discussion of which places to visit on Beefathon II.

viewtopic.php?p=2546#p2546

It was a masterful dissing and should be read by all LTHers as an example of how to write a scathing review.

It's really been 11 years? Wow. And this place stays in business. Amazing.

BR wrote:

eating while walking wrote:Also, that list puts Bari at the very bottom as a non-noteworthy beef. That's enough for me to discount the whole thing.

Well, I've been a huge fan of Bari and its Italian beef for a long time - one of my favorites in town. Then about two months ago, I was there and had an awful beef - dry and lacking the usual seasoning, rendering it almost flavorless. I was shocked. Had I never been there before, I would have decided never to return. But I know better and I'll be back (though it's kept me away for a bit). Unfortunately, that's the risk with anyone visiting a restaurant only once (be it a beef-a-thon, pho-a-thon, bagel-a-thon or anything of the like). Hell, I've had less than stellar visits to Johnnie's, Bob-O's and a few of my other favorites.

To me, that's a reason to consider Dolinsky's commentary along with that of other people you trust, rather than a reason to simply conclude that the guy must be a moron. Even typically consistent restaurants will have bad days. But as for the list, I appreciate it for the number and diversity of the places he visited, including many that get very little attention.

I haven't had a Bari beef with hot as good as the one I got upthread on my two visits since. The second one was better than the third which was kind of a mess with large slices of meat stuck together almost in meatball form. I think I might of got the last of the batch the first time because the last two visits the beef has been sliced and remained intact whereas it was almost like roast beef debris that first time. I'm a fan of Bari giardiniera but not so much on an Italian Beef. I prefer it on a meatball sandwich or in my marinara sauce.

jimswside wrote:

Jefe wrote:
Fair enough. I respect the effort too and have a few places on my list now including Frangella in Palos Park which is across the street from where I got my start as a "sandwich artist" and about four blocks from where I grew up. That thing looks mighty. But he dissed two of my favorite beefs, Bari and Pop's.

Lol, i also need to get to Frangellas.

I went to a party in Beverly on Sunday and decided to wander over to Frangella beforehand. I was hungry and I'd had enough corned beef the previous day and was about as close to a new-to-me beef with hot spot as I'd be in the foreseeable future, so why not.


Locals favorite in Palos Park

Steven pretty much described the process of making it and it's flavors to exactly what I saw and then ate. Although he does mention that they use D'Amato's bread but I'm not sure about that. If they do use them, they use a single sandwich loaf I'm unfamiliar with (as you can see in the pic) as this bread was not cut nor was it crusty. It wasn't bad and held up well to a very generous amount of near perfect roast beef. The giardiniera had subtle kick with extra crunch and the gravy was noticeable in both temperature and taste. I have to say this is one that slipped thru the hole here on the forum. One thing I really appreciated from Da Hounds roundup was his addressing of consistency. It might not be to the level of BBQ but some beef spots do have problems with it, maybe even Frangella.


Beef with Hot

Back to the bread. I saw loaves from D'Amato's, Liborio, Gonnella, Turano, and others. They seem to run a pretty well stocked ship when it comes to Italian deli counter needs. While it would have to wait I was very intrigued by the beef and cheddar stromboli listed under the house specialties. Next up off Dolinsky's list is Mama D's in Lemont, other than that I've now tried the other 30 listed. FWIW we're on somewhat similar pages as far as scoring goes.


Sitting in the display case

Frangella Italian Market
11925 S 80th Ave
Palos Park, IL 60464
(708) 448-2598

I'm surprised Dolinsky was so high on Lukes. My last visit there was mediocre. I might have to give them another shot.

I'm hoping to make a SW suburb beef trio run of Frangella, Original Mr. Beef (long overdue), and Mama D's with my brother soon. Glad we waited, because we can hit all three instead of just Mr. Beef.

The Luke's in Lake Bluff is ok, sometimes even good if I get lucky (beef desert up in these parts), but I wonder if there is any connection at all recipe wise. The owner claims it's true to the Luke's recipe and that he doesn't mess with the original recipe. Fine, but I'm not calling it top 10 by a long shot. I guess I have to hit Jackson St. to see for myself.

I believe I've been to Bob-O's before, but I never paid much attention to it until it scored so high in Dolinsky's IB round-up. I recently re-visited. And I will say this, having read Dolinksy's reviews, I know why Bob-O's scored so high. Did not mean I loved it.

It's a big sandwich. The meat is soft, nearly pot-roast in consistency. The giardinara is well applied, and it's a very big mix of vegetables and peppers, almost a cross between a non-Chicago giardinara and our stuff. I mean you actually taste the carrots! Except the seasoning was banal, pretty limited. Worse, the juice tasted off, almost rancid.

The fries were advertised as "fresh-cut" but they're the same fresh cut as Poochies and everyone else buying from that company. No competition for Al's or Gene n Jude's or Mr. D's on that front. Like the beef, the portion of the fries was big--do they serve a half portion like Wiener Circle who also serves too many fries in one order?

It was like $9 plus for fries, beef and hot peppers. Expense account fast food?

Vital Information wrote:
It's a big sandwich. The meat is soft, nearly pot-roast in consistency. The giardinara is well applied, and it's a very big mix of vegetables and peppers, almost a cross between a non-Chicago giardinara and our stuff. I mean you actually taste the carrots! Except the seasoning was banal, pretty limited. Worse, the juice tasted off, almost rancid.

Hello, Bob O's is one of my favorites and I really like the giard there so I'm surprised to hear this. Maybe they had a batch go sour.


An Italian friend of mine had invited me to go to Ricobene's last week. I had never been there, and I only knew about the place from the anti-Ricobene's threads on LTH (viewtopic.php?t=3376), most of which were pretty funny to read. Expectations were low so I was pleasantly surprised whe I had a really great time and a good meal there. The Italian beef was quite good. Nothing standout but definitely above-average, kind of a like a greasier version of Portillos. It was also quite heavy to pick up, because it was stuffed with 2x the beef density of a typical IB sandwich.


I even enjoyed the much maligned breaded steak sandwich (viewtopic.php?t=13037). Tangy sauce, stretchy cheese and breaded meat on a fresh roll, what's not to like? Besides the inevitable grease coma afterward that is. I'll be back here soon.

Ricobene's
252 W 26th St, Chicago, IL 60616

I've always been a fan of Johnny's Beef in Elmwood Park. When I moved to Wisconsin 25 years years ago, scoring an authentic Italian beef was impossible. However, in 2009, I trained David Ross at Hot Dog University. David owns and operates two stands in the Milwaukee area called Dr Dawg's. They proudly serve Vienna Beef hot dogs and Polish, fresh cut fries, Niman Ranch burgers, and Scala's Italian beef on Gonnella bread. The next time you're in Glendale or Greenfield, WI, stop in and enjoy one soaked.

http://www.drdawg.net

Always want to help support a Vienna stand anywhere (serve natural casing only please!), but unless the beef is their own recipe, I'll stick to the Niman Ranch burgers if I go there. I can get Vienna and great beef here.

eating while walking wrote:

Vital Information wrote:
It's a big sandwich. The meat is soft, nearly pot-roast in consistency. The giardinara is well applied, and it's a very big mix of vegetables and peppers, almost a cross between a non-Chicago giardinara and our stuff. I mean you actually taste the carrots! Except the seasoning was banal, pretty limited. Worse, the juice tasted off, almost rancid.

Hello, Bob O's is one of my favorites and I really like the giard there so I'm surprised to hear this. Maybe they had a batch go sour.

Man, that's some bad grammar/syntax on my part...

I have nothing against the giardinara per se, it's built to impress Dolinsky, but was nothing too special for me. I like really out there ones like Al's, Chickie's or Max's (RIP). What I trying to talk about with banal seasoning, etc. was the beef gravy/beef juices. My bad

So, maybe it should read thus:

VI about Bob O's wrote:t's a big sandwich. The meat is soft, nearly pot-roast in consistency. The giardinara is well applied, and it's a very big mix of vegetables and peppers, almost a cross between a non-Chicago giardinara and our stuff. I mean you actually taste the carrots! Except the beef seasoning itself was banal, pretty limited. Worse, the beef juices tasted off, almost rancid.

Today, I was going to be working for an hour or two out of the Starbucks at 127th/Lemont, so I decided to drive over to Original Mr. Beef. I have to admit I love the naming rights which several Italian families' grandchildren seem to have with each other: Mr. Beef on Orleans/Original Mr. Beef, Vito and Nick's and other Vito and Nick's, Lou Malnati's and Pizano's (whose radio ads feature prominent mentions of Rudy Malnati). So Dolinsky's article and this thread were enough to get me to go, even though I rarely have reason to cross east of the Speedway at 143rd/Lemont Road.

I ordered a regular Mr. Beef hot and dipped. Nothing else, as the fries looked highly similar to those found in upscale hospital and university student union kitchens nationwide, and they serve RC products. Cost was 7.45

I was suitably impressed. I usually get a Big Beef from Portillo's, and while this was smaller, it was a better size for me - in between Portillo's regular and big sizes in terms of volume. The first thing which struck me was how much better the bread and the juice were. I don't think I would have liked the sandwich nearly as much dry, as the beef wasn't quite spiced enough. The hot was a little too jalepeno-focused for me, although it did have sufficient celery and no olives. I'd have liked to see a little green pepper or carrot in there as well, but I'd buy it again.

OMB is 23 minutes from my house. I'm pretty sure that it's the best beef sandwich in that 25-minute radius, although at 35-40 minutes then Johnnie's and the original Buona are in play for me. As I'm getting back into golfing this summer after a few years off due to health reasons, and I tend to play at a lot of courses south of 143rd, I suspect that OMG will be a monthly stop in good weather.

Vital Information wrote:

eating while walking wrote:

Vital Information wrote:
It's a big sandwich. The meat is soft, nearly pot-roast in consistency. The giardinara is well applied, and it's a very big mix of vegetables and peppers, almost a cross between a non-Chicago giardinara and our stuff. I mean you actually taste the carrots! Except the seasoning was banal, pretty limited. Worse, the juice tasted off, almost rancid.

Hello, Bob O's is one of my favorites and I really like the giard there so I'm surprised to hear this. Maybe they had a batch go sour.

Man, that's some bad grammar/syntax on my part...

I have nothing against the giardinara per se, it's built to impress Dolinsky, but was nothing too special for me. I like really
out there ones like Al's, Chickie's or Max's (RIP). What I trying to talk about with banal seasoning, etc. was the beef gravy/beef juices. My bad

So, maybe it should read thus:

VI about Bob O's wrote:t's a big sandwich. The meat is soft, nearly pot-roast in consistency. The giardinara is well applied, and it's a very big mix of vegetables and peppers, almost a cross between a non-Chicago giardinara and our stuff. I mean you actually taste the carrots! Except the beef seasoning itself was banal, pretty limited. Worse, the beef juices tasted off, almost rancid.

I'm not quite sure what "built to impress Dolinsky" means, but I've always been a fan of Bob-O's giardiniera and I think it works very well with their beef. Now that may make me unintelligent/unsophisticated/ possessing of bad taste . . . I'm just fine with that.

As for the juice tasting rancid, I've fortunately never experienced that. And as for the fries, I'm a big fan of Gene's and Jude's fries, but Bob-O's fresh cut fries are my absolute favorites in town.

How in Chicago could this occur!?
No replies in the Italian Beef subject since March!?
OK - I'll open up this wrapper.
Usually, once a month, I ride the Union Pacific Northwest Line train for a sexpositive group's Bingo games | munch | slosh in central Palatine. I take the CTA downtown to Ogilvie Transportation Ctr. so I can catch an express train there. (I have a 10-ride ticket.)
It gets me to Palatine with a lot of time before the first call of bingo. So I stroll around the area around the train station, and in investigating other venues, this place turned up: T. J. O'Brien's; 53 W. Slade St.; Palatine, IL 60067
What mostly pushed me into going here this time? I think you all know I tend to watch the Travel Channel on satellite TV. Supposedly, this place used to have an italian beef eating challenge. If you are going to challenge people to attempt to eat a lot of one of your courses, the course had better be tasty.
Yes, the venue describes itself as an Irish pub, but even if it is ersatz, it's probably worth a shot. Because, I was not going to be there all evening. I wound up having one Guinness, and two other 16-oz. canned beers, along with my italian beef. As you can see, this is a venue where the giardinara is separate from the beef. That is OK. The giardinara is included in the cost. The waffle fries are a 95¢ add-on.
I did not ask if it still had the challenge. But if it did, I might not have defeated it anyhow. I feel the beef needs to be roasted longer. It was tender. It was the proper thickness. It just did not have enough temperature heat for me.
Will I go here again and try another menu item? I doubt it. The reason for the canned beers was a disappointment with the beers on tap (It has Revolution Brwg. on offer on it, but I really didn't want to have a hoppy IPA.). But your mileage may vary.
The wi-fi password is "tjobriens".

Here is D'Amato's version of hot and sweet, dipped. I thought this was a mighty fine sandwich. You know the bread was great - held lots of gravy and still retained crispness and the peppers were fresh and tasty. The beef was cut thicker than I am used to, but that was okay with me. The only knock I have is that it could have used some more spice. It needed a bit more of a kick. According to earlier threads, I should have gone next door, but I still think this was pretty good.

bw77 wrote:http://file:///C:/Users/bwalsh/Desktop/IMAG1403.jpg[/img]

Here is D'Amato's version of hot and sweet, dipped. I thought this was a mighty fine sandwich. You know the bread was great - held lots of gravy and still retained crispness and the peppers were fresh and tasty. The beef was cut thicker than I am used to, but that was okay with me. The only knock I have is that it could have used some more spice. It needed a bit more of a kick. According to earlier threads, I should have gone next door, but I still think this was pretty good.

I think the URL you provided may not be accurate.

=R=

My neighbor says this is the best: http://skywaydoghouse.com/
I tried it,and disagree. I think Franky's has the best tasting IBS and on Mondays you can get an 8" for $4.50! http://frankysredhots.com/specials-franky%27.html
The hardest part of deciding who's right is the 50+ mile drive between the two.

that's my favorite wrote:My neighbor says this is the best: http://skywaydoghouse.com/
I tried it,and disagree. I think Franky's has the best tasting IBS and on Mondays you can get an 8" for $4.50! http://frankysredhots.com/specials-franky%27.html
The hardest part of deciding who's right is the 50+ mile drive between the two.

I don't think I can ever eat at this place. It will not be possible for me to be that close to 95th street and not go to Calumet Fisheries.

I finally made it to The Original Mr. Beef in Homer Glen Saturday. I had high expectations going in and was not disappointed. Sandwich was large, beef itself was tender, gravy had a lot of oregano, black pepper, garlic and onion flavor to it. Top ten beef for sure and close to being in the starting 5. Mr. Beef on Orleans pales in comparison to the Original Mr. Beef (on Orleans, now in Homer Glen). I wanted to hit Mama D's as well since I was down there, but that will have to be another time.

The Original Mr. Beef
12320 143rd St
Homer Glen IL
708-645-0456
Be careful... Closed Sundays

bw77 wrote:

that's my favorite wrote:My neighbor says this is the best: http://skywaydoghouse.com/
I tried it,and disagree. I think Franky's has the best tasting IBS and on Mondays you can get an 8" for $4.50! http://frankysredhots.com/specials-franky%27.html
The hardest part of deciding who's right is the 50+ mile drive between the two.

I don't think I can ever eat at this place. It will not be possible for me to be that close to 95th street and not go to Calumet Fisheries.

The only time I see Skyway Doghouse now is on the way to Calumet Fisheries.Mmmm...smoked shrimp,fried shrimp,etc.

Went to the Ontario St Al's last week for my go-to combo meal: beef/sausage hot, with a cup of cheese on the side for the fries.

Current price: $15.58

Has jumped about $4 in the last year or so.

That is friggin' expensive!

Chicago Hokie wrote:Went to the Ontario St Al's last week for my go-to combo meal: beef/sausage hot, with a cup of cheese on the side for the fries.

Current price: $15.58

Has jumped about $4 in the last year or so.

That's a deal! In 20 years...

Wow that's way too high. The other Al's would probably close with those prices. Interesting to note that I was talking with the manager at one of the locations and mentioned that Deerbrook Mall was a good location with lots of people working in the area. He said it sounded good until I mentioned Portillo's would be there soon. He said Al's can't compete with Portillo's and prefer to be as far away as possible from them!

Ram4 wrote:

Chicago Hokie wrote:Went to the Ontario St Al's last week for my go-to combo meal: beef/sausage hot, with a cup of cheese on the side for the fries.

Current price: $15.58

Has jumped about $4 in the last year or so.

That's a deal! In 20 years...

Wow that's way too high. The other Al's would probably close with those prices. Interesting to note that I was talking with the manager at one of the locations and mentioned that Deerbrook Mall was a good location with lots of people working in the area. He said it sounded good until I mentioned Portillo's would be there soon. He said Al's can't compete with Portillo's and prefer to be as far away as possible from them!

Good news that Portillo's is coming to Deerbrook Mall; the area could use it.

I had heard that the South of the Border location on Lake Cook Road didn't work out for Portillo's, but missed the announcement about Deerbrook.

George R wrote:

Ram4 wrote:

Chicago Hokie wrote:Went to the Ontario St Al's last week for my go-to combo meal: beef/sausage hot, with a cup of cheese on the side for the fries.

Current price: $15.58

Has jumped about $4 in the last year or so.

That's a deal! In 20 years...

Wow that's way too high. The other Al's would probably close with those prices. Interesting to note that I was talking with the manager at one of the locations and mentioned that Deerbrook Mall was a good location with lots of people working in the area. He said it sounded good until I mentioned Portillo's would be there soon. He said Al's can't compete with Portillo's and prefer to be as far away as possible from them!

Good news that Portillo's is coming to Deerbrook Mall; the area could use it.

I had heard that the South of the Border location on Lake Cook Road didn't work out for Portillo's, but missed the announcement about Deerbrook.

They were supposed to break ground in June and open in November. There's been no activity. I wonder if it's still happening.

Source: http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/d ... story.html

Seemingly, being on a list of recommended italian beef shacks could not save Jimmy's Homemade Italian Beef.
Was it too far from anything else?