scottsol wrote:Ultimately it's not a question of getting bread free or having to pay for it, it's a question of how you are charged for it.

Well put. Some people want all of us to subsidize their personal bread habits!

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ronnie_suburban wrote:

scottsol wrote:Ultimately it's not a question of getting bread free or having to pay for it, it's a question of how you are charged for it.

Well put. Some people want all of us to subsidize their personal bread habits!

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And remember, the Nazis were not socialists in name, but in practice.

This post intentionally blank.

I would add that the old adage, you get what you pay for, is also OFTEN in play here. For every Asadero, there's 10 places serving really crappy stale chips and insipid salsa that I'm pissed I ate. I'd rather they save the money and put it into their other dishes, or charge a reasonable amount that will enable them to put something decent on the table. But for some, free is more important than good, I guess.

Wow. This turned out more heated than the "Reservations vs No-Reservations" debate.

I'm ok with paying for bread, but on the conditions that (1) it had better be some danged good bread, and (2) you can still get "free"bread with dishes where one might reasonably expect to sop up all the remaining bits of sauce, etc.

scottsol wrote:The lack of a separate charge for bread is indicative of a socialist policy while a specific charge per use is capitalistic...As with medicine and education, there is no consensus on which approach serves society in the best way.

I like your capitalism/socialism analogy, Scott—and I especially appreciate the point you make that there are advocates for both systems—but if I may (staying within the metaphor of world economic systems), the comparison that seems more apt to me is between laissez-faire capitalism and enlightened capitalism. As you say, we all share the cost for the public schools, whether our children use them or not, and most agree this is a good thing while very few would call it socialism. No city park charges an admission fee for a stroll, and nearly all would agree that they like it this way and that this doesn’t make us a socialist economy, despite that some people never use the parks at all.

Meanwhile, for anyone (not you, Scott, because you didn't say this) who thinks introducing a charge for bread will result in restaurants lowering prices across the rest of the menu, disappointment is in store.

I love bread. Very little of what is served in restaurants justifies an extra charge. I'm glad some places are making great bread and, when they do, I am happy to pay for it as a separate line item.

I've been as guilty as any here about talking about hidden costs in general terms as well as extremely speculative changes to restaurant bread service writ large.

From here on out, I will try to use this thread only to list restaurants that actually charge for bread and whether I think it was worth it.

- Cellar Door Provisions: Worth it.
- Girl and the Goat: It has literally been so long since I've visited that I don't remember specific impressions about the bread. However, I don't recall being annoyed at whatever I was charged.

Those are the only two restaurants in the city where I remember being charged for bread. That is the entirety of my report. *

I am not including naan, as that seems to be a different category of food which has not really been under discussion here.

gastro gnome wrote:I love bread. Very little of what is served in restaurants justifies an extra charge. I'm glad some places are making great bread and, when they do, I am happy to pay for it as a separate line item.

Exactly - and as this thread split off from the Steadfast thread, I'll say that the bread service (including butters, oils, vegetables) at Steadfast was at a level I'd expect from a Michelin-starred restaurant. And one main reason you never see charges for bread at places like Tru and the like is because you're not ordering a la carte.

There's no such thing as free bread. It's figured into your final plate cost. You're just not aware of that extra added on. So is the oil used to deep fry your fries, your salt and pepper, your amuse bouche etc...

I have to pay for the amuse bouche? Well that's no fun at all.

If you're not paying for it, the doors won't be open for long. Enjoy your mignardise on me.

scottsol wrote:I have to pay for the amuse bouche? Well that's no fun at all.

Ha ha ha!

Je vois ce que vous avez fait là.

Katie wrote:

scottsol wrote:I have to pay for the amuse bouche? Well that's no fun at all.

Ha ha ha!

Je vois ce que vous avez fait là.

English translation:

He he he!

I see what you did there.

I just returned from spending 10 days in Spain. Interestingly enough this topic became relevant as we frequented many restaurants of various price points, cuisine, locations, etc.

In terms of bread service, almost every single establishment charged a fee for bread. Some asked if you wanted bread, some you had to request bread, some served it un-asked, and in each case there was a charge on the bill for bread. Cost of the service averaged about $1 Euro per person. Some of them were very good, some were just run of the mill, NONE of them included butter. Several of the restaurants brought out some type of spread or oil with the bread, but most did not.

More surprisingly was that again, in the majority of the restaurants, Water was an extra charge. If you asked for water then you were served bottled water. Bottles were of varying sizes, some small, some large enough for several people and costs varied from $1 or so to almost $3, and that is per bottle consumed. Strangely, the tap water in Spain was very good, not sure the reason for bottled at restaurants.

thetrob wrote:More surprisingly was that again, in the majority of the restaurants, Water was an extra charge. If you asked for water then you were served bottled water. Bottles were of varying sizes, some small, some large enough for several people and costs varied from $1 or so to almost $3, and that is per bottle consumed. Strangely, the tap water in Spain was very good, not sure the reason for bottled at restaurants.

Pretty typical for much of Europe, I've found, but if you ask for tap, you can usually get tap. Ice on the other hand *sigh*... Bottled water has a greater chance of being cold than tap.

I just returned from spending 10 days in Spain. . . In terms of bread service, almost every single establishment charged a fee for bread

This isn't Spain.

JoelF wrote:

thetrob wrote:Ice on the other hand *sigh*...

If you want ice in Europe, just search for and follow the Brinks trucks . . . I assume that's what they're carrying, right? Ice . . . apparently Europe's most valuable asset.

sundevilpeg wrote:

I just returned from spending 10 days in Spain. . . In terms of bread service, almost every single establishment charged a fee for bread

This isn't Spain.

Oh yes, it most definitely is. That pretty much mirrors our experience there in 2012 (and in France on multiple visits), so unless there have been some drastic changes since then . . .

I'm sure a few people on this thread would have been spinning at their keyboards if they'd been with us last Saturday night at Inovasi, where bread service has been upgraded substantially but is no longer gratis . . .


Bread Offerings @ Inovasi - 16.0820

These were excellent breads, each made with ancient grains by Hewn Bakery in Evanston, which is turning out what are arguably some of the best loaves in the Chicago area. After the meal, without solicitation, chef des Rosiers discussed his revamped bread service with us. He said he wanted to do something exceptional and special but couldn't do it in house, so he farmed it out to Hewn. That meant that Inovasi was now having to charge for it. It was great to experience because these breads and the excellent, house-made spreads and dips that accompanied them were totally worth the price. And for the folks in the restaurant who didn't want bread, I'm guessing they were glad to not have to subsidize this offering that the rest of us were enjoying.

In the end, I'd rather pay for something exceptional than have something perfunctory and ordinary thrown my way. And when I'm not in the mood for bread, it's nice to not have to pick up the tab for it.

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Ronnie,

I'm sure Inovasi bread by Hewn is wonderful, but "Hand Forged" geeeeesh.

And I thought Alfresco Eggs over the top.

sundevilpeg wrote:
This isn't Spain.

Banner quote.

G Wiv wrote:I'm sure Inovasi bread by Hewn is wonderful, but "Hand Forged" geeeeesh.

LOL, the description is definitely a bit much but please, don't shoot the messenger!

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riddlemay wrote:

sundevilpeg wrote:
This isn't Spain.

Banner quote.

'Merica, f*ck yeah!

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G Wiv wrote:Ronnie,

I'm sure Inovasi bread by Hewn is wonderful, but "Hand Forged" geeeeesh.

And I thought Alfresco Eggs over the top.

AlfrescoEggs.jpg

I was just commenting on this over the weekend as well. It's a wonder that there aren't more industrial accidents with so much forging happening all over. I think we are at Peak Forge.

Ronnie, I think you misunderstood sundevilpeg's post. I'm pretty sure she didn't say "this isn't Spain" meaning "that's not what it's like in Spain"; she meant "this is the US, not Spain."

From Chris Teixeira, pastry chef at Steadfast: "If you're going to charge (for bread)," said Teixeira, "it needs to be something special."

Phil Vettel adds: "And the bread here is all of that. It's $8 for a small assortment and $10 for a large, but the breads are as good as they are varied (six distinct creations available, highlighted by superb baguette and bacon-topped flamiche), along with several housemade seasonal butters, three oils (I'm getting addicted to the leek-caper-anchovy oil) and pickled vegetables."

Full article/review here: http://www.chicagotribune.com/dining/re ... olumn.html

Just as a data point: Really nice, way-above-average breads and rolls at Swift & Sons last night, brought to table without asking, no charge on bill. Thank you, Swift & Sons.

riddlemay wrote:Just as a data point: Really nice, way-above-average breads and rolls at Swift & Sons last night, brought to table without asking, no charge on bill. Thank you, Swift & Sons.

LMAO - at those prices, the bread should be a throw-in! That is probably the most expensive restaurant I've visited in the past 12 months.

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ronnie_suburban wrote:

riddlemay wrote:Just as a data point: Really nice, way-above-average breads and rolls at Swift & Sons last night, brought to table without asking, no charge on bill. Thank you, Swift & Sons.

LMAO - at those prices, the bread should be a throw-in! That is probably the most expensive restaurant I've visited in the past 12 months.

And absolutely, the (minor, in comparison) cost of the excellent bread is amortized across the prices of the rest of the menu--as it should be.

riddlemay wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:

riddlemay wrote:Just as a data point: Really nice, way-above-average breads and rolls at Swift & Sons last night, brought to table without asking, no charge on bill. Thank you, Swift & Sons.

LMAO - at those prices, the bread should be a throw-in! That is probably the most expensive restaurant I've visited in the past 12 months.

And absolutely, the (minor, in comparison) cost of the excellent bread is amortized across the prices of the rest of the menu--as it should be.

Oy, whatever. I understand that you're happy to have others pay for your bread and that quality, creativity and innovation are secondary concerns for you. It's a short-view perspective that most of us on these forums do not share (at least based on this thread).

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Oy, whatever. I understand that you're happy to have others pay for your bread and that quality, creativity and innovation are secondary concerns for you. It's a short-view perspective that most of us on these forums do not share (at least based on this thread).

Was this combative, snobbish comment really necessary?