Spilt Milk, Oak Park: Pot Pie That's Actually Pie

Spilt Milk, Oak Park: Pot Pie That's Actually Pie

One outright lie that has been foisted upon American diners for many years is the fraud of “pot pies” that are not actually pies. In an age of alternative facts, we should feel justified in calling bullshit on such alternative “pies.”

I first noticed such fake pastry at Baker’s Square (client asked me to lunch; I had to go). I ordered a chicken pot pie and what came to me was a sloppy pile of chicken stew with a pre-fab pastry square on top. Nowhere in the known universe is that a pie [http://lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=7212]

Then I noticed such ersatz pie everywhere. During Christmastime, even at the Walnut Room, known for Mrs. Hering’s 1890 Original Chicken Pot Pie, what you get is a bowl of stew with a crust baked on top. Way better than Baker’s Square and probably better than a kick in the teeth.

To me, a pie has a top and bottom crust. Oxford University agrees, defining a pie as “a baked dish of fruit, or meat and vegetables, typically with a top and base of pastry.” Now, my favorite pie is Key lime, which has only a bottom crust, as does pizza pie, so I’m willing to waver a little, and won’t split hairs about pies and tarts, but let’s put it this way: a square of pastry perched atop stew does not a pie make.

Many of us had our first chicken pot pies from Swanson. I liked those pies. I sincerely prefer those pies to any recent ones I’ve had, and sad to say, they were almost my standard until I walked into Spilt Milk [http://www.spiltmilkpastry.com/]. My eye caught a platter of pot pies on the front counter, the upper crusts all bubbly and some cratered with spewing juice. $14 each, which isn’t cheap, but for a good pie, fair. I asked if the pie had a top and bottom crust; the nice lady behind the counter assured me it did. I took one home.



20 minutes covered in foil at 350; remove foil for another 20 minutes. Done.

This was a stupendously delicious and meaty pie, packed with poultry and root vegetable. There was between one-third and one-half pound of chicken in there, as well as carrots, turnips, parsley, rutabaga, and celery root, all toothsome, not overcooked. The upper crust was very flaky and crisp, a contrast with the tender chicken, dry and moist, crunchy and soft. The bottom crust was wet with savory juices (reason enough to have a crust down there), and the whole thing was just so fabulous that only spousal affection could stop me from eating the whole damn thing: I saved some to share with Carolyn.

If you plan to eat the chicken pot pie in the well-lit dining area at Spilt Milk, call a half-hour or so ahead and they’ll heat it up for you. The need to heat the pie all the way through is no doubt why frozen pot pies – from Marie Callender’s and others like them – are able to lay down a bottom crust. In a restaurant, warming a frozen or even a room-temp pie – especially while the customer waits – would be an operational challenge. I understand why most restaurants can’t serve pot pie with a bottom crust. To understand is to forgive, but still, those top-crust-only versions don’t do it for me.

Before leaving with my pie, I bought a chocolate chip cookie. I prefer a crisp cookie, though many poor, benighted souls prefer a softer cookie (De gustibus non est disputandum). The Spilt Milk cookie is likely to please most: crisp outer edges and a soft center. I accept that version of the cookie in the spirit of compromise upon which this great nation was built.

Meg and Molly Svec are owners of Spilt Milk: Meg mostly handles books, and Molly, the pastry chef, has worked at Blackbird, Hoosier Mama Pie Co., and Bouchon in New York. That’s an impressive pedigree behind this modest, though very warm and welcoming, bakery shop at 103 S. Oak Park Avenue.

Oh how I wish more Sunday sermons had this much fire and angst

On my list now!

But need to make a vegetarian pot pie soon!

This is a lovely space run by nice people, though I balk at the $30 (I think?) price for sweet pie.

Vitesse98 wrote:This is a lovely space run by nice people, though I balk at the $30 (I think?) price for sweet pie.

And $14 seemed high for a smaller pot pie, but it was well worth it.

You need to go a little further in the Oxford English Dictionary:

Pot-pie,..A dish of stewed meat with pieces of steamed pastry or dumplings served in it;

My research also uncovered this gem, that I think I'll pass on:

1906 Amer. Illustr. Mag. Feb. 465/1, I was out huntin' for squirrels to make a potpie out of, for squirrel potpie's just lickin' good.

While I personally prefer a top and bottom crust, just a top crust is a perfectly acceptable variant. Also increasingly popular is a top crust made of puff pastry.

I definitely need to add Spilt Milk to my TO DO list. I am so glad to have stumbled on this thread during PI week. I love pie. I love to make and bake pie and I love to eat pie. I make pot pie and I love pot pie. (especially really good chicken pot pie) The one time I did include a bottom crust, I had at least one comment that it was too 'crusty'.
But, David, based on your post, I am inspired to make it again with a top AND a bottom crust. (And Pairs4Life... I'd make a vegetarian one for you....)

Vitesse98 wrote:This is a lovely space run by nice people, though I balk at the $30 (I think?) price for sweet pie.

I bought one of those too. For the price you would expect a transcendental experience but, no. Ordinary with a thick roll of dough around the top edge.

This reminded me of an old favorite, the Tap & Growler, a brew-pub in the West Loop in the 1990's. Their signature dish was growler pie, a salmon filet atop a bed of leeks and cabbage in cream sauce with a sheet of puff pastry on top. Never bothered me that there was no bottom crust.

spinynorman99 wrote:This reminded me of an old favorite, the Tap & Growler, a brew-pub in the West Loop in the 1990's.

Wow. One of the worst brewpubs ever. Used a dumbed-down system so that anybody behind the bar could make an extract beer. Not missed at all.

Panther in the Den wrote:

Vitesse98 wrote:This is a lovely space run by nice people, though I balk at the $30 (I think?) price for sweet pie.

I bought one of those too. For the price you would expect a transcendental experience but, no. Ordinary with a thick roll of dough around the top edge.

Pie with a scratch crust is like good bread. There is a lot of inactive time before the product is finished. If the pie is $30 and you get at least 6 slices I think that is fine. If you get 8 slices then you are in the world of per servings that are less expensive than many nice dessert offerings out and about.

If Molly is using the HMP crust then I am not surprised at the finish. It is for crust lovers. In the HMP book the pastry was a favorite until I tried Kimball's Milkstreet crust. Not only did I experience an easier to work with pastry but I preferred the taste as well. I just had Wild Rice, who had pie from me two weeks in a row tell me she preferred the MilkStreet crust to the HMP. When I looked we agreed it was probably due to the fact that HMP's double crust has 196 g of butter while Kimball's Milk Street uses apx. 142 g of butter in a single crust!

pairs4life wrote:

Panther in the Den wrote:

Vitesse98 wrote:This is a lovely space run by nice people, though I balk at the $30 (I think?) price for sweet pie.

I bought one of those too. For the price you would expect a transcendental experience but, no. Ordinary with a thick roll of dough around the top edge.

Pie with a scratch crust is like good bread. There is a lot of inactive time before the product is finished. If the pie is $30 and you get at least 6 slices I think that is fine. If you get 8 slices then you are in the world of per servings that are less expensive than many nice dessert offerings out and about.

If Molly is using the HMP crust then I am not surprised at the finish. It is for crust lovers. In the HMP book the pastry was a favorite until I tried Kimball's Milk Street crust. Not only did I experience an easier to work with pastry but I preferred the taste as well. I just had Wild Rice, who had pie from me two weeks in a row tell me she preferred the Milk Street crust to the HMP. When I looked at the recipes we agreed it was probably due to the fact that HMP's double crust has 196 g of butter while Kimball's Milk Street uses apx. 142 g of butter in a single crust!

Still a very good pie and assuming like HMP's I would not hesitate to purchase one as a gift or to serve!

chicagojim wrote:While I personally prefer a top and bottom crust, just a top crust is a perfectly acceptable variant. Also increasingly popular is a top crust made of puff pastry.

I agree. In fact, the latter approach (with the puff pastry top) is the one taken by Musso & Frank Grill in Hollywood, as you can see in this video. Theirs, which has been around for many years (and is now a Thursday lunch special), is one of the most famous chicken pot pies anywhere and the best I've ever had.

A Pot Pie must have a bottom crust. I don't know why anyone would think otherwise. Heathens!

nr706 wrote:

spinynorman99 wrote:This reminded me of an old favorite, the Tap & Growler, a brew-pub in the West Loop in the 1990's.

Wow. One of the worst brewpubs ever. Used a dumbed-down system so that anybody behind the bar could make an extract beer. Not missed at all.

Never had their beer, usually just went for work lunch. Food was good, and it was the only game in town.

pairs4life wrote:

Panther in the Den wrote:

Vitesse98 wrote:This is a lovely space run by nice people, though I balk at the $30 (I think?) price for sweet pie.

I bought one of those too. For the price you would expect a transcendental experience but, no. Ordinary with a thick roll of dough around the top edge.

Pie with a scratch crust is like good bread. There is a lot of inactive time before the product is finished. If the pie is $30 and you get at least 6 slices I think that is fine. If you get 8 slices then you are in the world of per servings that are less expensive than many nice dessert offerings out and about.

If Molly is using the HMP crust then I am not surprised at the finish. It is for crust lovers. In the HMP book the pastry was a favorite until I tried Kimball's Milkstreet crust. Not only did I experience an easier to work with pastry but I preferred the taste as well. I just had Wild Rice, who had pie from me two weeks in a row tell me she preferred the MilkStreet crust to the HMP. When I looked we agreed it was probably due to the fact that HMP's double crust has 196 g of butter while Kimball's Milk Street uses apx. 142 g of butter in a single crust!

To derail this discussion just a bit further...

I tried the Stella Parks blitz pastry crust from Serious Eats last Thanksgiving. It's somewhere in between the Milkstreet and HMP in terms of butter content (225g for a double crust). The flavor was good. More importantly, it was the easiest crust I believe I've worked with (not just in ease of handling the dough, but requiring the least equipment and preparation). I have had good results with the HMP pie crust in the past as well. The next time I make a pie, I may try the Milkstreet crust to see if I notice a difference in flavor (with the extra butter and sour cream, I wouldn't be surprised if it tasted different).

I love all well-prepared pie. It's probably hard for me to value it properly. $30 is only marginally higher than Hoosier Mama (a price I very willingly pay). Spilt Milk has been on my list for a while and I will give it a shot the next time in Oak Park.

nr706 wrote:

spinynorman99 wrote:This reminded me of an old favorite, the Tap & Growler, a brew-pub in the West Loop in the 1990's.

Wow. One of the worst brewpubs ever. Used a dumbed-down system so that anybody behind the bar could make an extract beer. Not missed at all.

It was on our lunch rotation when I worked at UIC. It got the job done. It was also the venue for the drunkenest party I've ever been to. People were passing out in the bathrooms.

Gastronome I feel like we should move this over to the pi day board or pie making board.
I saw Park's recipe and the moment I saw lamination--folding-- I balked. Will give it a shot based on your rec.
Her sweet potato pie custard is my new favorite! I took it to the Mardi Gras gathering at irisarbor's.

Miller's Pub has a good (and famous) CPP.

I bake pies with the HMB dough, so I guess that means I like crust. Anyway, at any given time HMB has about 12 or so pies on offer, many exotic or challenging to execute. Spilt Milk usually has I think two, or maybe three, typically including a simple pie like key lime. No offense, I love key lime pie, but in terms of labor and ingredients it should be nowhere near $30. If people want to pay $30 for a pie, that's cool, go for it, it's a great spot and I want them to do well. But for everyone else, rest assured, once you get the dough down, baking a pie isn't really that hard, imo, and it's a skill worth perfecting!

Man, now I want pie. In fact, maybe I'll pop out and buy one of their chicken pot pies right now ...

Vitesse98 wrote:I bake pies with the HMB dough, so I guess that means I like crust. Anyway, at any given time HMB has about 12 or so pies on offer, many exotic or challenging to execute. Spilt Milk usually has I think two, or maybe three, typically including a simple pie like key lime. No offense, I love key lime pie, but in terms of labor and ingredients it should be nowhere near $30. If people want to pay $30 for a pie, that's cool, go for it, it's a great spot and I want them to do well. But for everyone else, rest assured, once you get the dough down, baking a pie isn't really that hard, imo, and it's a skill worth perfecting!

Man, now I want pie. In fact, maybe I'll pop out and buy one of their chicken pot pies right now ...

Re: pricing. I dunno much about the going rate, but $14 for a very good pie with up to a half-pound of chicken seems fair to me. I guess $30 is high...but I honestly don't think I've ever bought a whole regulation-sized pie, so what do I know.

David Hammond wrote:

Vitesse98 wrote:I bake pies with the HMB dough, so I guess that means I like crust. Anyway, at any given time HMB has about 12 or so pies on offer, many exotic or challenging to execute. Spilt Milk usually has I think two, or maybe three, typically including a simple pie like key lime. No offense, I love key lime pie, but in terms of labor and ingredients it should be nowhere near $30. If people want to pay $30 for a pie, that's cool, go for it, it's a great spot and I want them to do well. But for everyone else, rest assured, once you get the dough down, baking a pie isn't really that hard, imo, and it's a skill worth perfecting!

Man, now I want pie. In fact, maybe I'll pop out and buy one of their chicken pot pies right now ...

Re: pricing. I dunno much about the going rate, but $14 for a very good pie with up to a half-pound of chicken seems fair to me. I guess $30 is high...but I honestly don't think I've ever bought a whole regulation-sized pie, so what do I know.

I lost my prior post.

If they are using key limes the pricing in an urban market for 6-8 dessert servings in a high quality product seems fine. Although I prefer a graham crust for this pie and I don't find those difficult at all. That said, I realize a lot of folks won't even [url=http://www.traderjoes.com/fearless-flyer/article/1181rl]boil eggs so making their own pies is probably not going to happen.

No comment on the quality, but Mariano's has pi Day prices for pie today. https://www.facebook.com/marianosmarket ... =3&theater

Yeah, I think Whole Foods has $3.14 pies, too, or something like that.

Actually, I think $14 for a chicken pot pie is very fair. I just bought one there (for tonight), and it's pretty substantial, at least two large servings, and as $14 is fair for an entree I think it's more than fair for this pie. But chicken and veggies are more costly as ingredients and I think take longer to prepare than fruit and sugar, which is the only reason I balk at $30 for a fruit pie, let alone something relatively easy like key lime or even bourbon pecan, which they also had in the shop, along with banana cream, apple and something with a meringue, iirc.

bang bang pie shops have a fantastic single serving chicken pot pie with a bottom crust that is actually brown, as it should be and it costs $10. (the same came not be said about everyone's , seemingly, favorite pie shop-hoosier mama's.... ) david's pic up top looks a little crust heavy to me- too much edging- but i believe him if he says it was delicious. luckily, i dont have to go to oak park for a transcendent pot pie experience. and personally, i'm fine with a top crust only pot pie- it's healthier- and considering how many pale crusts exist in this imperfect world, usually avoids the disappointment of digging down only to findthat underdone bottom crust.

I stand firmly with those who want a pot pie to have a top and a bottom crust. It's not just nostalgia for Swanson's (although there is that); the crust is my favorite part. A square of pastry floating on top is not enough, and it annoys me even more when it's puff pastry (too many flakes flying all over). If I wanted that kind of thing, I'd make my mom's chicken á la king with biscuits on top. I haven't yet found a recipe that I really love for double-crust chicken pot pie, but I keep looking and keep testing.

I haven't yet found a recipe that I really love for double-crust chicken pot pie, but I keep looking and keep testing.

We've been making this forever and love it.
http://emerils.com/123202/chicken-pot-pie

On the topic of baking fakery, a few years ago I had a Baked Alaska at Bistronomic that was basically a scoop of ice cream (and perhaps cake) with a meringue plate on the top. Now, I like Bistronomic, but I thought this was a cheat in much the way as are pot pies that are just stew with a pastry plate on top. Last night at Presidio, we had a Baked Alaska that was, amazingly, actually a Baked Alaska: ice cream and cake topped with browned meringue. It was not flambéed at the table, but that flourish is not, I believe, standard practice. It’s a good dessert.

Whether single or double crust - the most important aspect of any fruit or savory pie is that the filling and crust are baked together. The top is crispy and browned and the underneath part is still a little soft and has soaked up some of the filling.

I'm not a fan of puff pastry on pot pie - it's usually used as a shortcut, which means pre-made puff pastry dough that may not have any actual butter in it and tastes like cardboard.

hoppy2468 wrote:

I haven't yet found a recipe that I really love for double-crust chicken pot pie, but I keep looking and keep testing.

We've been making this forever and love it.
http://emerils.com/123202/chicken-pot-pie

Thanks for that, hoppy! I'll give it a try.

bnowell724 wrote:The top is crispy and browned and the underneath part is still a little soft and has soaked up some of the filling.

The sponge-like qualities of the softer bottom crust is one big bonus of a double-crusted pie.