Rene G wrote:

JoelF wrote:No, the late, lamented Demon Dogs did have Ketchup, and would put it on dogs too, if you were gauche enough to ask.

As I recall, Demon Dogs had a big pump dispenser on the counter so you were free to use it as you saw fit (as Wiener's Circle does now). A most practical solution to a very divisive problem.

Wiener's Circle has a pump dispenser, but they're perfectly willing to put ketchup on a char dog there. They've never had a problem accommodating the intractable Canadiaosity of my wife.

Cathy2 wrote:My local hot dog stand is Stash's in Highland Park. When I was first acquainted with them in the early 1970's, the default dog was Chicago style ...

iblock9 wrote:FWIW, I used to really like Stash's and i still think their fries are pretty good. I prefer Michaels for almost everything else if i am just running out for dinner in

As I think I've posted before, there used to be nothing much better in life than walking home with a little greasy brown paper bag full of Stash's fries. I can close my eyes and still see the little dark narrow shop and the guys crowded in behind the counter and the lines of people crowded in on the other side.

It was never the same once it was forced to move into whatever the city calls what that block turned into.

Michael's is good - my out-of-town sibs don't come in and leave again without stopping by there once - but Stash's was one of a kind.

Cathy2 wrote:'Mutt' was a rather short Stash and 'Jeff' was a rather tall guy named Frank Rosenthal. Does the name ring a bell? This was Frank 'Lefty' Rosenthal whose life was emulated in the movie 'Casino' with Robert De Niro portraying him.

Did you see his obituary in the Tribune a few months ago? It mentioned him taking the 5th in response to every question that was asked of him at a Congressional hearing, including a question on whether or not he was left-handed.

Cathy2 wrote:I think the whole ketchup issue gets out of hand when your liking it is treated like you said something impolite.

I second that emotion. Ketchup police, grrr. I'm happy to eat a Chicago hot dog "the Chicago way," if that means, among other things*, no ketchup, but I like my Polish sausage with ketchup, mustard, and grilled onions.

* Ketchup's a sin, but no one's bothered by the radioactively green relish? I don't get it.

Some like their food sweet. Hot dogs and Polish are sweetened with sugar. The food service neon green relish adds high fructose corn syrup. The retail neon green relish has sugar. Ketchup adds more high fructose corn syrup, plus corn syrup. Tomatoes contain natural sugar. Grilled onions may be caramelized with sugar or brown sugar. When I was a kid, the only thing that sweetened encased meats were grilled onions caramelized with Coca Cola and served on a real Maxwell Street Polish, never on a hot dog. Chicago baby boomers rarely, if ever used ketchup on a hot dog or Polish, so it never became an acquired taste.

Katie wrote:
* Ketchup's a sin, but no one's bothered by the radioactively green relish? I don't get it.

I abhor the sugar laden green stuff. Never understood it. I don't do gobs of sugar on my dogs. Another one of those things that not only do I not "get," it pretty much gives me the heebie jeebies. Why not just sprinkle some candy pieces on it? DILL relish, however, that's the goods - IMO, of course.

Dmnkly wrote:I've always thought the fries were were one of Superdawg's greatest attributes -- arguably stealing the show from the dog.

I [heart] Superdawg, and would eat there three dozen times a year if I lived closer. Tonight, with temperature in the single digits, the lot was packed, and the flushed, smiling carhops danced their way across a lot freshly scattered with salt, just like the fries.

I had an opportunity to compare the Superdawg fries tonight with some Maggiano's Potatoes Vesuvio (eaten beforehand) and Avenue Alehouse Sysco Waffle Fries (eaten afterward), and of the three, Superdawg's far and away tasted most like the real McCoy as far as spuds go. Layers of crispness from fresh hot oil (and probably multiple fryings) with perfect salt and skin ratio, and this on top of their unique garlicky sausage. Eaten right from the window without the steam effect that occurs on a journey home, each element could pop and sing.

And the pickled tomato is worthy of an ode. YTMND.

Santander wrote:YTMND.

You're The Man Now, Dog*

* $&^* young whippersnappers and their ^%^ text message acronyms!

the flushed, smiling carhops danced their way across a lot freshly scattered with salt, just like the fries

QOTD.

Today, my car broke down in front of a Circle K convenience store. As I sat there endlessly waiting for salvation by AAA, I found myself staring at a 4 foot poster half exposed above several pallets of windshield fluid. The sign was entitled "Chicago's Hot Dog 2/ $2.22". Below the title, was a photo of 3 foot weenie. I decided that a convenience store chain based out of Phoenix, may actually be the absolute arbiter of the definitive "Chicago Dog" argument. After all, at least according to one infamous Check Please guest, if you're from Phoenix, you know barbecue ribs, so maybe the inherent Arizonan culinary expertise also extends into the upper Midwest encased meat arena. From my vantage point, I could see the pictured sausage was covered in nothing but mustard and not quite radioactive green relish. I decided to inspect it closer, even peering behind the stacks of windshield fluid, just in case there was a hidden pickle spear or tomato wedge lying in ambush behind the rows of glowing blue liquid in gallon plastic bottles, but there was nary a garden in sight. So according to no less an authority than the circle K corporation of Arizona, a tube steak requires nothing beyond yellow mustard and bright green relish to attain the ranking of "Chicago's Hot Dog".

Unfortunately, a recent bout of stomach flu made me reluctant to take advantage of their most generous offer.

Mhays wrote:

Santander wrote:YTMND.

You're The Man Now, Dog*

* $&^* young whippersnappers and their ^%^ text message acronyms!

Thanks, Michele. Sean Connery actually says that line like he's pronouncing every letter in the "dawg" in Superdawg, making it even better.

If you go to Byron's I'd also suggest the original on Irving Park for its classic 1970s hot dog stand ambiance. Contrary to popular belief, you can get a natural casing Vienna hot dog at Byron's. Problem is, it's the half-pound Dogzilla.

Behold Dogzilla.



A half-pound hot dog washed down with a cold forty—living the high life for sure.

Byron's Hot Dogs
1017 W Irving Park Rd
Chicago
773-281-7474

I started eating Chicago Style dogs in 1971 when I worked in the LOOP.
Cart vendors sold them for 50 cents before the City Council killed them off by requiring hot & cold running water for anyone serving food in the City.
For a $ you had a nice lunch. I remember mustard and onions and not a lot more. Had many a dog at the Old Stadium watching the Bulls with Jordan. Two dogs and a beer.
Got used to the Vienna taste so much that in ablind tasting i picked the Vienna dog over my vaunted Usinger veal weiner.
All were natural casing.
Since natural casing Vienna were not available in the past in stores, got used to purchasing them at the Factory store on Damen and to the Vienna suggested condiments which I have grown to like.
Picked up a box of 8/# natural casing yesterday and had the special of two dogs, fries and drink.
Expertly made dogs, hot fries!
The Vienna branded Celery salt is better than anything I can buy so also bought a shaker. Rosen's Mary Ann seeded buns i can get in Wisconsin.
It appears to me that with the rerouting of Elston that the Factory store might be History soon? Production has moved already and the area looks ripe for development?
In any event, I like the Vienna style dog and condiments.-Richard

Cathy2 wrote:

"At last week's Culinary Historians meeting, I learned a story about Stash's early hot dog stand in Chicago from Bob Schwartz. Stash and a partner opened a hot dog stand called Mutt and Jeff. 'Mutt' was a rather short Stash and 'Jeff' was a rather tall guy named Frank Rosenthal. Does the name ring a bell? This was Frank 'Lefty' Rosenthal whose life was emulated in the movie 'Casino' with Robert De Niro portraying him. The partnership broke up because 'Jeff' had a small gambling den in the rear of the hot dog stand."

Glad to see this thread resurrected.

Cathy, this is not surprising. Rosenthal attended Von Steuben and my former boss was also one of his best pals.

And in that area, once we could drive in high school (1973-1974) instead of eating at our usual favorite hot dog place in Skokie--the Corner Hut on Oakton--we'd opt for this little joint we found on Bryn Mawr & Kedzie called Sherm's. The dogs were very good, but the sideshow was the thing. Sherm ran the place with his mom and they were constantly screaming at one another, and as teenagers to see the older generation completely lose it on a regular basis was better than TV.

I can't recall (or find in research) Sherm's last name but do remember that some years down the line from our visits, Sherm's had to close down because Sherm went off to 'university' for--you guessed it--running a gambling operation from the back of the store.

I'm pretty sure that Sherm's was the successor to my beloved Lerner's. Lerner's was responsible or my life long love affair with the minimalist style of the Chicago dog. Back in the 60's, my Mom would pick me up from school at lunch time, plop me down at the barber shop on Bryn Mawr for a haircut, and while I was in the chair, ran over to Lerner's to get me a dog and a Nedlog orange to eat at the barber shop for lunch.

I was living on the West coast in the early 70's, so I'm not at all familiar with Sherm's, although I do remember Mutt & Jeffs. By the time I moved back to Chicago, Sherm's/Lerners was gone; replaced by Northside Prep High School.

Don't hold me to it, Steve, but if memory serves Sherm's was on the southeast corner of Bryn Mawr & Kedzie.

What makes Fat Johnnie's hot dogs so good on a sunny day? Is it that battered old shack, leaning like a fat man with bad knees, and that sign bragging that Fat Johnnie's Famous Red Hots are "Fit for a King"?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/colu ... olumn.html

jnm123 wrote:Don't hold me to it, Steve, but if memory serves Sherm's was on the southeast corner of Bryn Mawr & Kedzie.

Yes. That's where Lerner's was. There was a gas station right on the corner, and the hot dog stand was just to the right of the pumps toward the back. Just south of all that was Lazars sausage factory.

budrichard wrote:.
It appears to me that with the rerouting of Elston that the Factory store might be History soon? Production has moved already and the area looks ripe for development?

The Bucktown location will inevitably close, but they opened a new factory store in Bridgeport last summer.
https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2016060 ... bridgeport

lodasi wrote:

budrichard wrote:.
It appears to me that with the rerouting of Elston that the Factory store might be History soon? Production has moved already and the area looks ripe for development?

The Bucktown location will inevitably close, but they opened a new factory store in Bridgeport last summer.
https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2016060 ... bridgeport

Not too far in terms of distance but for me, traffic will preclude me from patronizing very often as I have to get through the junction to the Dan Ryan! At this time of Day Sun, NAV says 10 min difference but I bet it changes.-Richard

budrichard wrote:

lodasi wrote:

budrichard wrote:.
It appears to me that with the rerouting of Elston that the Factory store might be History soon? Production has moved already and the area looks ripe for development?

The Bucktown location will inevitably close, but they opened a new factory store in Bridgeport last summer.
https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2016060 ... bridgeport

Not too far in terms of distance but for me, traffic will preclude me from patronizing very often as I have to get through the junction to the Dan Ryan! At this time of Day Sun, NAV says 10 min difference but I bet it changes.-Richard

Since you're coming from the North, you can get your natural casing Vienna dogs (both 8:1 and 4:1) from Elegance in Meats in Northbrook. That should save some driving time and miles.

Elegance in Meats (or E & M, as it's known to us locals)
3135 Dundee Rd
Northbrook, IL 60062
847-920-4646

Thanks for the info but I purchase my Vienna dogs in the 10# boxes, 8/#.
I actually enjoy the experience of the Factory Store!
Best I can do is couple a trip to Chinatown with a trip to the Vienna Bridgeport location!-Richard

budrichard wrote:

lodasi wrote:

budrichard wrote:.
It appears to me that with the rerouting of Elston that the Factory store might be History soon? Production has moved already and the area looks ripe for development?

The Bucktown location will inevitably close, but they opened a new factory store in Bridgeport last summer.
https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2016060 ... bridgeport

Not too far in terms of distance but for me, traffic will preclude me from patronizing very often as I have to get through the junction to the Dan Ryan! At this time of Day Sun, NAV says 10 min difference but I bet it changes.-Richard

Bud,
My office and class are at the Vienna Beef factory at 2501 N Damen Avenue. The driving time from Damen & Fullerton on the Kennedy to our new factory at 1000 Pershing is approximately 30-45 minutes on a weekday any time between 8am-5pm. I prefer Halsted north to Jackson to the Kennedy, as a return route.

Thanks!
I have used Halstead many a time to avoid the Junction to get to China Town and points South.
Hopefully the new Factory Store/Bar will be open Saturdays.
I will miss the 'charm' of the old restaurant!-Richard

While I have not read this entire thread and as much as I love the depression style dog, in my mind the definitive Chicago hot dog would be fully dressed with tomato slices and pickle/cucumber spear.

jnm123 wrote:Don't hold me to it, Steve, but if memory serves Sherm's was on the southeast corner of Bryn Mawr & Kedzie.

stevez wrote: Yes. That's where Lerner's was. There was a gas station right on the corner, and the hot dog stand was just to the right of the pumps toward the back. Just south of all that was Lazars sausage factory.

Lazar's? When I was spectating college soccer games in the late 1980s (evaluating potential indoor soccer players), and North Park College was one of the schools where I would go; I thought the sausage factory was Kosher Zion.

pudgym29 wrote: Lazar's? When I was spectating college soccer games in the late 1980s (evaluating potential indoor soccer players), and North Park College was one of the schools where I would go; I thought the sausage factory was Kosher Zion.

Long before it was K.Z., it was Lazar's. Here's an article about an unsuccessful attempt back in the 50's to keep Lazar's out of the neighborhood.

Hi all (I'm new),
Chicago-style hot dog question: Does anyone know the origin of toppings like lettuce, cucumber, and bell pepper?

I know Byron's and a few others offer these toppings. I'm wondering if there's an earlier historical origin.

Thanks!
- 'Mungry

The usual ingredient list is:

The hot dog is topped with yellow mustard, chopped white onions, bright green sweet pickle relish, a dill pickle spear, tomato slices or wedges, pickled sport peppers and a dash of celery salt.

No lettuce, and no bell pepper. The pickle relish needs to be neon green. The sport peppers are optional, and the celery salt is required. The mustard is the plain old bright yellow variety. None of that fancy stone ground stuff.

Ketchup can never, never, never even be in the same room as a Chicago dog.

So, there's nothing wrong with lettuce or bell pepper on a hot dog, it just isn't a "Chicago hot dog" at that point.

This is the history, as reported in Wikipedia:

Many sources attribute the distinctive collection of toppings on a Chicago-style wiener to historic Maxwell Street and the "Depression Sandwich" reportedly originated by Fluky's in 1929. The founders of Vienna Beef frankfurters—the most common brand served today, first sold at the 1893 World's Columbian Exposition in Chicago—and the proprietors of Fluky's were both Jewish, which may account for the wieners' pork-free, kosher-style character.

In reference to the OP, here's a screenshot of the online order dialog box at Byrons's website . . .


Byron's website screenshot

It does show lettuce, cucumber and green pepper as available condiments, and even provides a 'beg for it' ketchup option!

=R=