Texas BBQ in Chicago

I recently came back from Austin, TX after having literally life changing brisket at https://www.labarbecue.com/

Why doesn't anyone make this in Chicago? There's nothing even half way close to it here. I used to think people who made these kind of claims were half joking. But now that I've had the "truth" I understand.

Is it the economics behind it? Do these kind of smoked meats not make enough money to make it feasible here (require too much attention, etc)? Maybe someone with more knowledge on the business side of BBQ could chime in.

I had similar experience in Austin recently and have also thought a lot about why it doesn't exist here. I'm sure there are people who are far more learned than I who could chime in but on a fundamental level, I think it has a lot to do with 2 main factors:

1) The historical and cultural factors of how TX BBQ came to be in the first place. Remember that many of these places were primarily butcher shops and ended up selling BBQ. There's a tremendous pool of knowledge and experience, passed from generation to generation in many cases, that impacts the quality of the food being produced. When your family has been making BBQ for decades, you've probably seen -- and know how to account for -- just about every type of variable that can come up.

2) The cookers. In TX, offset cookers, the kind that are commonly known to produce great BBQ, can exist outdoors, under canopies, shelters and what have you. There are also weather conditions there that make cooking on such rigs viable year-round. Additionally, many old-school TX cookers exist in other situations that would never be permitted here. Take Smitty's Market, for example, where the fire pits burn in the floor, inside the building! In Chicago, barring special events and other rare exceptions, restaurants are not even allowed to cook their food on outdoor devices. I think having to use the kinds of cookers that need to be located indoors greatly impacts the quality of the food being produced, especially brisket.

Again, I'm sure there are a ton of other factors, large and small, but these 2 seem to be at the core of it.

=R=

One more aside . . . does anyone remember the short-lived Austin BBQ in Wheaton? Reading that thread will also provide some insight into why great Texas-style BBQ doesn't exist here. Ok, Wheaton was probably not the best-chosen location for this type of venture but when the audience doesn't understand -- or care about -- the specifics of regionally representative BBQ, it can make the struggle to exist even more difficult. Of course, that alone isn't likely the only reason that Austin BBQ failed to thrive.

=R=

I kinda like the fact that there are still regional foods only available in their native region.

ronnie_suburban wrote:One more aside . . . does anyone remember the short-lived Austin BBQ in Wheaton? Reading that thread will also provide some insight into why great Texas-style BBQ doesn't exist here. Ok, Wheaton was probably not the best-chosen location for this type of venture but when the audience doesn't understand -- or care about -- the specifics of regionally representative BBQ, it can make the struggle to exist even more difficult. Of course, that alone isn't likely the only reason that Austin BBQ failed to thrive.

=R=

Thanks for the link. Good reading. I'd forgotten about the great bun battle.

The brisket at Pete's Fresh markets is really good. It's usually about $10/lb.

Ronnie's #2 is the primary reason, quickly followed by too many locals that still don't get the Texas approach. I too dig a Twin Anchs meal, but it ain't BBQ in any real sense of the term, and yet that style still serves as the basis for most folks expectations. I've hit most of Austin's finest; Louie Mueller, Smitty's, Blacks, Green Mesquite, Salt Lick to name a few. Gotta say, the above linked Labarbaque is currently tops in my book. Worrisome, is the suggestion on their website that they're looking to open in LA soon. Nothing good can come of that. Nothing.

From knowledge of previous threads, it's safe to say that there are a decent amount of Chicagoans that do not know that bbq can mean something other than baby back ribs or chicken baked in bbq sauce. I didn't say that was good or bad either way. I also didn't say "MOST Chicagoans." It's just a regional thing, just like we have beef sammiches all over the place, and Texas doesn't.

The good q joints are springing up though!

Ronnie, thank you for mentioning Austin BBQ, because I was going to say the same thing. There was a place in the area that made Texas-style BBQ. Maybe not quite as good as what you can get in Lockhart or Austin, but very, very good. And it closed in a couple of years.

Does anyone know what happened to Doug or his beautiful Oyler?

bnl wrote:Why doesn't anyone make this in Chicago?

While there are a few places that come close (Smoque, for example) I'd say the simplest answer to your question is "because there isn't sufficient demand for craft-quality BBQ".

There's more to the story, of course, and others have mentioned some of the factors. Aaron Franklin got started selling BBQ out of a repurposed RV trailer parked on an empty lot he leased next to the interstate. Try that anywhere in metro Chicago; the conditions that make such an endeavor impossible are not limited to just the City of Chicago.

While Chicago isn't as crazy as NYC, here's a great read on what it's like to open a bbq joint there: http://www.seriouseats.com/building-a-bbq-restaurant.

(Begin minor thread hijack here)
Most importantly though, I think it's important to put the Austin craft BBQ scene in perspective. 15 years ago it didn't really exist; you had the long-established places just outside of Austin (the various places in Lockhart, Louis Mueller in Taylor, etc). And then you had a lot of so-so BBQ places in Austin. Yes, there were some really outstanding joints, but they tended to come and go.

What's happened since is this huge growth in Austin, both in population and in demographics, which has increased disposable income. And when you are selling USDA prime grade grass-fed brisket, using cooking techniques that result in a 50% raw weight loss, you need a steady customer base willing to pay top dollar for lunch.

But what's going on in Austin (and spreading to Dallas and Houston) is a pretty unique micro-climate to those locales. When compared to the craft BBQ scene in Austin, there's a lot of so-so BBQ being sold throughout Texas. But the reason is simple; in most Texas communities there isn't the economic conditions to support high-end craft BBQ. And given that the chain places like Dickey's and Bill Miller see lots of business in Texas it's not like the locals themselves are demanding quality.

I've spent a far amount of time in north-central Texas; roughly 2 hours from the metroplex. There's a 3-county area there with maybe 2 truly good BBQ places. What you find in and around Austin is not representative of Texas as a whole.
(End minor thread hijack here)

So I guess what I'm saying is when you ask "why don't we have Texas craft-quality BBQ in Chicago", not too long ago that same question was being asked by people in Dallas and Houston and San Antonio. It's not as common, or as established, as you might think.

JMO,
Dave

Pursuit wrote:Worrisome, is the suggestion on their website that they're looking to open in LA soon. Nothing good can come of that. Nothing.

I wouldn't worry too much. The Salt Lick had a brief flirtation with Las Vegas that was modeled after the Mother Ship. It closed within a couple of years, but whether it was open or not, it seemed to have little to no effect on the original, from all accounts.

The Salt Lick in Vegas (R.I.P.)

DJH wrote:Ronnie, thank you for mentioning Austin BBQ, because I was going to say the same thing. There was a place in the area that made Texas-style BBQ. Maybe not quite as good as what you can get in Lockhart or Austin, but very, very good. And it closed in a couple of years.

Does anyone know what happened to Doug or his beautiful Oyler?

I do not, and I really dug the place. In addition to the cue they had the cubed cheese and pickles just right. I will say, damning with faint praise, that Q-BBQ has great and plentiful pickles in a way other places totally screw up. If only the brisket matched up.

I agree with all of the economic, political, cultural, et al. causes listed above, but I do want to throw one more idea out there: maybe we simply haven't had the kind of "life changing" (as the OP called it) BBQ place here to catalyze the scene. That's not to throw shade on any existing purveyor, but no one here has yet to top or surprise on a national list--as compared to, say, Hot Doug's or Great Lake back in the day--and few who come to Chicago to eat have a BBQ place on their must-eat itineraries; compare that to the pilgrimages people make in Austin, KC, or even Raleigh (hey, Skylight Inn is only 75 miles away!). Of course, all of the impediments listed above are contributing to the lack of transformative BBQ, and I feel a little leery about proposing some sort of "Great Man Theory" here, but you could say the same things all sorts of foodstuffs--donuts, hot dogs, "midwest cuisine"--that Chicago had for a long time before a brilliant place sparked a critical mass of talent and interest.

I'm heading to San Antonio for a conference next week and have scheduled time to visit 2M Smokehouse, a BBQ place only four months old that is rumored to be unseating Franklin on Texas Monthly's BBQ list this year. Out of great interest and anticipation, I did a little background research into the place: they opened quietly in December, and had lines out the door within about three weeks. In San Antonio. Transcendence--at least, that's what I'm hoping for--doesn't stay quiet for long.

On the topic of Salt Lick, I had a truly atrocious Brisket sandwich in the Austin airport Salt Lick on the way home.
Yes , yes I know it was in the airport, but it had their name on it so they should represent IMHO.
It was like maybe 4 puny slices of brisket that were way tough and underdone on a HUGE bun. for $15
Not. impressed.
would have been more impressed if they said sorry the brisket's just not ready, how about pulled pork? (which was not bad).
Just because I'm a traveler doesn't mean I'm stupid.

chezbrad wrote:I agree with all of the economic, political, cultural, et al. causes listed above, but I do want to throw one more idea out there: maybe we simply haven't had the kind of "life changing" (as the OP called it) BBQ place here to catalyze the scene. That's not to throw shade on any existing purveyor, but no one here has yet to top or surprise on a national list--as compared to, say, Hot Doug's or Great Lake back in the day--and few who come to Chicago to eat have a BBQ place on their must-eat itineraries; compare that to the pilgrimages people make in Austin, KC, or even Raleigh (hey, Skylight Inn is only 75 miles away!). Of course, all of the impediments listed above are contributing to the lack of transformative BBQ, and I feel a little leery about proposing some sort of "Great Man Theory" here, but you could say the same things all sorts of foodstuffs--donuts, hot dogs, "midwest cuisine"--that Chicago had for a long time before a brilliant place sparked a critical mass of talent and interest.

I'm heading to San Antonio for a conference next week and have scheduled time to visit 2M Smokehouse, a BBQ place only four months old that is rumored to be unseating Franklin on Texas Monthly's BBQ list this year. Out of great interest and anticipation, I did a little background research into the place: they opened quietly in December, and had lines out the door within about three weeks. In San Antonio. Transcendence--at least, that's what I'm hoping for--doesn't stay quiet for long.

First, a caveat that I have never had real Texas BBQ so perhaps my calibration is off. But I would certainly describe Smoque on Pulaski as life-changingly good. It's so consistently great that it's almost boring - I take out of town visitors there in full confidence that we will get a great meal every time.

To those who have have real Texas brisket, how does Smoque compare?

eating while walking wrote:To those who have have real Texas brisket, how does Smoque compare?

I've eaten at Smoque dozens of times. I love the place, the owners, all of it. I order brisket there just about every time I go. The place is at the very top of my recommendations to anyone looking for the best BBQ in Chicago. That said, when I visited the Austin, TX area in the fall of 2015 (after having not been there for over 30 years), the brisket experiences I had on that trip were life-changing. Of course, in TX we ate at some really iconic places and that may have a lot to do with it.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:I had similar experience in Austin recently and have also thought a lot about why it doesn't exist here. I'm sure there are people who are far more learned than I who could chime in but on a fundamental level, I think it has a lot to do with 2 main factors:

1) The historical and cultural factors of how TX BBQ came to be in the first place. Remember that many of these places were primarily butcher shops and ended up selling BBQ. There's a tremendous pool of knowledge and experience, passed from generation to generation in many cases, that impacts the quality of the food being produced. When your family has been making BBQ for decades, you've probably seen -- and know how to account for -- just about every type of variable that can come up.

2) The cookers. In TX, offset cookers, the kind that are commonly known to produce great BBQ, can exist outdoors, under canopies, shelters and what have you. There are also weather conditions there that make cooking on such rigs viable year-round. Additionally, many old-school TX cookers exist in other situations that would never be permitted here. Take Smitty's Market, for example, where the fire pits burn in the floor, inside the building! In Chicago, barring special events and other rare exceptions, restaurants are not even allowed to cook their food on outdoor devices. I think having to use the kinds of cookers that need to be located indoors greatly impacts the quality of the food being produced, especially brisket.

Again, I'm sure there are a ton of other factors, large and small, but these 2 seem to be at the core of it.

=R=

Don't forget #3 - the NIMBY factor. Attempting to locate a Texas-style operation in these parts is likely to mean you are in smelling range of some neighbor that doesn't want to smell BBQ. If the BBQ aroma that Mr. Adams produced at the old Western Ave Honey One location could cause neighbors to demand some type of smoke filtration system (from an aquarium smoker, no less) just imagine the reaction a full-on Texas pit BBQ operation might create.

Does anyone know what happened to Doug or his beautiful Oyler?

sadly, his Oyler stayed in the building as Doug was behind on rent and the owner of the building sort of "seized" the equipment inside... Doug took a job at UPS last I spoke with him, and was very upset at the whole restaurant endeavor and the lack of welcome his concept experienced...

His J&R Oyler was eventually sold to John Bovinette - who owns Steamboat BBQ in Wheaton (pit is not there) and another Steamboat "brisket and biscuit" in southern IL (near STL) (where the Oyler pit now resides).

As to chiming in on the rest of the subject - Why does the Texas BBQ taste better in Texas? Same reason Mexican food tastes better in Mexico and NY Pizza in NY. It just seems right, and the environment sets the mood for the experience.. I've eaten at Franklins, LA BBQ, Mickelwaits, Kruetz, Smitty's, Snow's, Blacks, Stiles Switch, Cooper's, and many more. And most of them more than once... I've also had great brisket sold out of the back of pickup trucks in gas station parking lots in Texas...

It's all very good (most of the time)- but the buildup of the various concepts has really amped up people's expectations of what they are going to find in Texas, and thus the enjoyment factor is amplified. It's all very good - but some of it tastes better because you expect it to. That's just the honest truth, and there is nothing wrong with that... Environment, expectations, smells, sight, and sound all create your dining experience, and in Texas - the sights, sounds, smells, and environment screams "Texas BBQ", as it should...

I only went to Austin BBQ twice, it wasn't bad but nothing good enough to justify a 2 hour plus round trip.

I've been to Smoque numerous times and its biggest plus is the consistency, but I never had anything awe inspiring.

In KCBS judging, the highest rating is a 9, and the only 'Q I've had at a local restaurant that deserved a 9 was at Rub's (now BBQ Supply Co.). That happend twice. About a year ago with some brisket and a few weeks ago for a beef rib. A nine doesn't mean perfection, but it means it would be unreasonable to expect anything better.

The disappointing thing is that it has only been those two times and there have only been two items (again a beef rib and a half chicken) that I would have scored an 8.

Jared may have no Texas credentials, but his setup does. Smokers by AN Bewley (Mr Bewley built many of the Oyler pits) using nothing but Texas Post Oak splits for heat.

So you can get top Texas Quality BBQ, but not consistently. With the possible exception of the BBQSC Pit-to-Plate dinners. One reason Smoque can be as consistent as they are is the use of an automated, gas fired, Southern Pride smoker and having a very consistent turnover. The Southern Pride may also prevent them from reaching the highest level of the BBQ craft.

ronnie_suburban wrote:

eating while walking wrote:To those who have have real Texas brisket, how does Smoque compare?

I've eaten at Smoque dozens of times. I love the place, the owners, all of it. I order brisket there just about every time I go. The place is at the very top of my recommendations to anyone looking for the best BBQ in Chicago. That said, when I visited the Austin, TX area in the fall of 2015 (after having not been there for over 30 years), the brisket experiences I had on that trip were life-changing. Of course, in TX we ate at some really iconic places and that may have a lot to do with it.
=R=

Seconded. Nothing here comes close to what I've eaten at La and John Mueller.

chezbrad wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:

eating while walking wrote:To those who have have real Texas brisket, how does Smoque compare?

I've eaten at Smoque dozens of times. I love the place, the owners, all of it. I order brisket there just about every time I go. The place is at the very top of my recommendations to anyone looking for the best BBQ in Chicago. That said, when I visited the Austin, TX area in the fall of 2015 (after having not been there for over 30 years), the brisket experiences I had on that trip were life-changing. Of course, in TX we ate at some really iconic places and that may have a lot to do with it.
=R=

Seconded. Nothing here comes close to what I've eaten at La and John Mueller.

Haha, I still think about the food I had at Mickelthwait, La BBQ, etc. at least once a week.

=R=

Great subject. I used to visit Dallas often. My favorite at the time was Solly's, a family place (when he retired and gave to son, he screwed it up and is no more). There were others. The brisket was soooo good. I always say I will never order brisket up in the north. People say they had good brisket somewhere and I say if you haven't had it in Texas, you really don't know what it is.

Agree, this is a great thread. TX BBQ is my favorite of all our Nation's distinct BBQ styles (but I do enjoy and appreciate almost all, except for the baked sauce-on meat jello stuff)

Ive eaten at a few places in Austin and Lockhart. If you're asking the question why don't more Chicago places cook like this, I think the previous posters summed it up: this is a super regional specialty requiring highly specialized cooking methods, equipment, and turnover in food. And an audience that loves/appreciates unsauced meat, no forks, butcher paper serving and communal seating no frills joints that run out of meat long before normal dinner hour.

Honestly, if you could clone Smitty's and drop it into Chicago I'm not sure it would succeed. The health dept would make them scrub off all that wonderful smoke on the walls, and the big ol knives chained to the tables? That would never fly.

Having said that, I do feel that Jared Leonard's place, BBQ Supply (FKA Rub's Backcountry Smokehouse) comes pretty close to recreating the Lockhart briskets Ive tried. Those enormous A123 rib roasts Jared made at a pit to plate dinner were pretty much the best beef bbq Ive ever had, right up there with Black's in Lockhart!

Green Street Smoked meats is pretty cool, obviously a homage to TX style wait in line meat behind the counter butcher slicing it for you places like Blacks and Smittys, but updated with great drinks and hipsterish atmosphere.

I know Jared is probably breaking out in sweat reading this thread debating whether or not it's worth it to jump in. From personal experience as someone who's eaten all over the state and extensively in the hill country, BBQ Supply and Smoque's brisket come closest in Chicago when it comes to taste and consistency... I prefer everything from BBQ Supply except the rub, which I find a little understated compared to Smoque's salt and pepper bomb. Chicago's got it pretty darn good.

Salt Lick is an incredible atmosphere but to be honest, the meat has always been at a second tier compared to the bigger names surrounding Austin. It's a cool drive, byob, all you can eat, and their indoor stunt pit photographs well. But it's been a loooong time since they've been in the conversation for serious cooking. I'd take Smoque or BBQ Supply over Salt Lick in terms of taste.

For me though, the biggest part of moving to Chicago a few years back was to embrace what's here. I'm always brisket first if I trust the purveyor, and I think a Kreuz jalapeno cheese is as good as a smoked sausage gets, but it's better to stop worrying and learn to love the tips and hot links you have in your backyard.

There's some good commentary above about the evolution of Austin's in-city bbq scene as part of the changing demographics (and the mediocrity of the metroplex, but that's a rant for another day) so I won't rehash that. I will only add that there's been a tremendous jump in meat prices across the board, but especially for brisket which (a) probably doesn't encourage Chicago chefs to cross this bridge if they aren't already, and (b) probably encourages more citi-fied (read: pricier) BBQ spots to open within city limits.

After 20 years of traveling to various places with great BBQ, one thing I can say for sure is that places with good BBQ generally have very little else good that you'd want to eat. Other than fried fish and chicken if you're lucky. Austin might be the great exception, though even there many of the pilgrimage places are out in the boonies where you'd not find a lot of variety. And I think that's just fine. I just stick to the BBQ.

I'm happy with Chicago's indigenous and dying urban style where the outdoors are put in glass and stainless steel and I don't particularly need someone to create a facsimile, in a hyper-urban city, of something that developed in and works best in a dusty Texas place. Not saying it couldn't be done. But there's something very Manhattan (in a bad way) about the concept of trying to recreate that in the city of Chicago. I could see it working in a suburb OK. This from a dude who cooks pigs in a brick Carolina pit for fun. Not in Ravenswood, though.

I have not tried this yet (they only serve food on the weekends) but am looking forward to it:
Daily Herald: Texas-style barbecue done right at Palatine's Chicago Culinary Kitchen

Anko wrote:I have not tried this yet (they only serve food on the weekends) but am looking forward to it:
Daily Herald: Texas-style barbecue done right at Palatine's Chicago Culinary Kitchen

Wow, right in your backyard Anko. Sounds good to me too. I can't go tomorrow, but maybe Sunday...

Anko wrote:I have not tried this yet (they only serve food on the weekends) but am looking forward to it:
Daily Herald: Texas-style barbecue done right at Palatine's Chicago Culinary Kitchen

Went to Chicago Culinary Kitchen in Palatine today. Waited in a line that went out the door, but it moved fast. Got the ribs and pork loin roast to go. While waiting for my order at about 11:45 they announced that the ribs and beef cheek had sold out. The beef cheek was a special of the day. The ribs were very good. The house bbq sauce was a good fit for the ribs. The pork loin which was a special of the day was moist and had a great taste. The pickles that come with all orders are a nice addition. If you like bbq this is an excellent place to try.

Thread on this place started here (and Greg is a GREAT guy who pitches in big every year at our holiday Salvation Army cook, so really happy to hear his gig is getting the love!!)

http://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=43775&view=unread#unread