I know this is more than mentioned in the linked posts, and referred to in many of the above posts, but I fear the point may have been lost in the various exchanges.

There is a point where doing novel things with food, versus expert application of time-tested methods with some small innovations, crosses over from weird science to transcendental experience, and that is when the food on the plate respects the idea that deliciousness counts.

It is a great pleasure for me to be challenged, stimulated and enjoy a delicious meal all at once - Grant Achatz, of any chef in Chicago, will most reliably deliver that experience, IMO. Now, if one does not like to be challenged and intellectually stimulated, dismissing the flourishes and contrivances of his food as silly without enjoying the thought and effect involved, then skip it since you will be wasting your money.

But Alinea will, if you are open to the experience, provide you with a number of unforgettable sensory and intellectual experiences within a very delicious meal.

And now, a brief comment on other sources of information mentioned here.

The world outside LTHForum puts a greater amount of emphasis on the look of a restaurant and the quality of the service. I swear, the posts on Metromix seem like they exclusively focus on price/value, and quality of service (so perhaps a good night at Appleby's is about as good as it gets??). And Phil Vettel and most reviewers put a lot of emphasis on service and atmosphere, because that is how their readers evaluate places, in general. For their money, they want to be coddled - taste and preparation are almost secondary it seems.

Here at LTHForum, most of us focus much more heavily on what is on the plate - quality, tastiness, and how interesting it is (which could mean it is innnovative, or just hard to find). Many of us willingly frequent dives with wonderful food that cannot easily be found elsewhere. Heck, we enjoy that experience.

So keep that in mind, Nancy, when comparing LTH comments about places to Phil's and Metromix posters' - our criteria, or at least our weighting of those criteria, are very different. If you are mostly worried about what is on the plate, come here; for price/value and service go to Metromix; for a more rounded review of the entire experience, go see Phil Vettel (not that we always agree with his taste or opinions, of course, but those are his opinions and we each have our own, too).

Enjoy your "thank you" meal. But if it could be Alinea and you do not go, it is a mistake in my opinion. It will be a completely different experience and a memorable one (based on what I have read, and my experience at Trio, to be clear).

So perhaps for a holiday gift, you could buy or go shopping with your hubby and have him pick out a fun jacket. Standard clothing fare for men in Chicago is frequently jacket and jeans. This may make your hubby more comfortable and want to wear a jacket. Then, for a more formal restaurant, he could wear this and trousers.

Foie Gras I sent some restaurant owners and chefs who were in for the restaurant show to Avenues and they said they the foie gras was in the top 5 they had ever had. I keep meaning to go, but somehow have not gotten around to it.
I tried to google a list of the 19 Chicago restaurants that serve foie gras, but no luck.

For upscale but not pretentious, try Coco Pazzo. The food is exceptional! It is authentic Italian according to my Italian friends. They serve veal, but not foie gras.

Coco Pazzo
River North
300 W. Hubbard St.
(Franklin St.)
Chicago, IL 60610
312-836-0900


What about Butter? No dress code!
Butter
130 South Green Street
Chicago, IL 60607
(312) 666-9813
www.butter.com

Has anyone been to Kevin lately?
Kevin
9 W Hubbard St Chicago, IL 60610
(312) 595-0055
www.kevinrestaurant.com


Life is so short, to choose only one restaurant is impossible! My recommendation is to try to open your possiblities to eat at great restaurants more frequently! How is that for a New Year's Resolution?

I've eaten at Alinea, we loved the food and had a great time there. The bill for two of us was $500 after tip. So I think this may be a consideration. I don't know if the wine put it up there, but those are Charlie Trotter prices. But I think one dinner for four at Trotter's was $1300. Of course you know there is no foie gras at Trotter's. Interestingly enough, I prefer the vegetarian menu at Trotter's.
Tru, Everest, North Pond, Butter, & Kevin serve foie gras

I don't know I have a hard time wrapping my mind around never wanting to dress well. I totally get it as far as, "Tonight I want to be casual," but never? Good Luck!

Be Adventurous!

I've eaten at Alinea, we loved the food and had a great time there. The bill for two of us was $500 after tip. So I think this may be a consideration. I don't know if the wine put it up there, but those are Charlie Trotter prices. But I think one dinner for four at Trotter's was $1300. Of course you know there is no foie gras at Trotter's. Interestingly enough, I prefer the vegetarian menu at Trotter's.

Two points I wish to echo here:

If one goes to Alinea, or Trotter's, it is necessary to forget how much the meal costs. If you cannot, then the enjoyment will be much less. So that is another consideration.

One of the best dishes I have ever had was in a vegetarian degustation at Trotters, which my wife had ordered. Her entire meal was much better than my meaty one. But I am rather off Trotter's, for as Yogi Berra once said so wisely - "No one goes there any more because it's too crowded." Fickle wretch that I am.

I agree about not thinking about the money when one dines at Alinea, or Trotter's. I was just thinking if one did not want to dress in a jacket or nylons, then one isn't really looking for that experience and may not be aware of the price, even if someone else is footing the bill. I was just trying to be sensitive, I am fortunate enough to wear couture and experience dining at French Laundry, and the like ... but I am really interested in the dining experience which does not have to be uber-expensive to worthy of praise. I was trying to provide information useful to Mrs. Sexton.

How the deuce does her husband not wanting to wear a jacket mean they don't want to experience Grant Achatz's food? Or that they're such unsophisticates that they don't know how much it costs?

Could you be any more judgmental?

Next we'll be barring men with facial hair from swanky restaurants, lest their moustache offend the other patrons, and assuming they have the culture of a mealworm.

Mutter mutter mutter.

Ignore me, just an old crank.

OH MY GOSH! JACKET & NYLONS? French Laundry. She would just like to have a nice and different dinner out with her husband and have him be comfortable. Thats all! gleam you might think that your an old crank but your a wise old crank.

You'd be amazed at sophisticated people who don't know exactly the cost of dining, or the degree of generousity of the giver. One example is my experience offering to take someone out for a nice dinner for a birthday. She wanted to go to Everest. This was more than I was offering, I had to counter offer.

Also, if you are in a sweater mood, my guess is you might not be in a 3 1/2 hour dinner mood. Please let me know when men are dining at Alinea in sweaters. My guess is the sliding entrance door will not open for men arriving in sweaters.

As for men's facial hair; homeland security has on the table a proposal to ban all facial hair, even moustaches!

mary60614 wrote:Also, if you are in a sweater mood, my guess is you might not be in a 3 1/2 hour dinner mood. Please let me know when men are dining at Alinea in sweaters. My guess is the sliding entrance door will not open for men arriving in sweaters.

Please. If I was going to have a 3.5 hour meal I'd want to be as comfortable as possible. Which for me is a polo shirt and khaki pants.

And I would bet that if Thomas Keller wanted to dine at Alinea in a sweater, they'd be more than accomodating. I'm not Thomas Keller, but it certainly shows you how absurd the whole thing is.

Wait! Wait! REALLY! If the person offering dinner is REALLY offering Alinea, It is a fabulous experience! If you can talk your husband into it go! IF THE PERSON OFFERING IS OFFERING THAT KIND OF EXPERIENCE (and $$$) GO! This is an added dimension, it is a different thing to spend someone else's money! I was not saying that they don't know the story with the price of Alinea, it just isn't clear how much the person offering to foot the bill is comfortable with. Alinea has really hit their stride!

mary60614 wrote:Alinea has really hit their stride!

Mary, Ed,

Obviously "dressing for dinner" is still a hot button issue.

I've not been to Alinea, but very much enjoyed Trio under Grant Achatz, including a Kitchen Table dinner just a few weeks before Achatz left. I've only been to Custom House once, and they may still be having growing pains, but I was not overly taken with some aspects of my meal. If both Alinea and Custom House are on the table, I highly recommend Alinea.

Frankly, it seems to me, from the thread, that either Avenues, pop rock foie gras lollipops aside, or Everest would be the perfect choice. Everest would require a a suit coat, but Avenues, being in a hotel, is more flexible on dress code.

Moto might be a little advanced, Tru, I have not been to in a few years, though I was quite taken with the restaurant. Oh, by the way, live Japanese fighting fish, are not "fancier" but rather whimsy, humor, subtle irony. Personally, I feel that both Ambria and Les Nomades are living on past reputation.

Enjoy,
Gary

Since when is a sport coat uncomfortable [other than at the beach]? Seriously, on a comfort basis alone I would wear a sport coat any day. Plus, people will assume that I am a grown-up. But I digress.

I agree with those who say that Ambria is living on reputation. It is too bad. I also agree about Tru. I find it creative and consistently good. I have gone at least once or twice a year since it opened and have always had a great experience there.

but Avenues, being in a hotel, is more flexible on dress code

I thought it was jacket required, or at least encouraged. But I could be wrong.

DML wrote:Since when is a sport coat uncomfortable [other than at the beach]? Seriously, on a comfort basis alone I would wear a sport coat any day. Plus, people will assume that I am a grown-up. But I digress.

That's your comfort level, mine is different. Most grown-ups are, I think, less comfortable wearing jackets than not wearing jackets.

I find my range of motion in a jacket is far, far less than my range of motion in a knit shirt or even just a dress shirt, let alone a tank top. Having my range of motion restricted makes me less comfortable.

gleam wrote:

DML wrote:Since when is a sport coat uncomfortable [other than at the beach]? Seriously, on a comfort basis alone I would wear a sport coat any day. Plus, people will assume that I am a grown-up. But I digress.

That's your comfort level, mine is different. Most grown-ups are, I think, less comfortable wearing jackets than not wearing jackets.

I find my range of motion in a jacket is far, far less than my range of motion in a knit shirt or even just a dress shirt, let alone a tank top. Having my range of motion restricted makes me less comfortable.

I know it's fruitless arguing with you, Ed, about clothing ... but really, how much range of motion do you need to eat dinner? It's not like you're doing gymnastics. A suitcoat or jacket shouldn't be a problem, unless of course you like the meal so much you feel the need to shoot high fives to the waitstaff!

(Of course, what you wear under the suit is up to you. Wonder how many are going commando on a typical night at Alinea?

Mike G wrote:I thought it was jacket required, or at least encouraged. But I could be wrong.

Mike,

According to the Avenue's web site jacket preferred. According to the Avenues hostess I just had a brief, but pleasant, conversation with, business casual is fine. I specifically asked about sweaters, her response was was fine as well.

She did say they tended to get "picky" about denim, no denim, no tennis shoes. ( ok, who is going to be the first to get all cranky about no beat jeans and ripped reeboks? )

Enjoy,
Gary

the snobbery in this thread is really getting tiresome.

i mean, people. get a grip. the woman wants some advice. she gave her parameters so as to help us give her the best advice possible. the thread isn't about telling her that what she wants is wrong or bad. it's about helping her pick a friggin' restaurant.

so, if you can advise her, please do so. if you want to critique her parameters, simply put DOWN the mouse and step AWAY from the keyboard.

seriously. this is not about you. repeat; THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU.

i mean, if you posted a thread asking where the best place to eat foie gras was, how would you feel if someone gave you repeated lectures about why you shouldn't eat it, and made insinuations about what kind of person you were because that's what you choose to do?

kindly either advise the OP using the parameters she detailed, or......don't.

but stop telling her that what she wants is wrong. mm kay?

When I made a reservation for Alinea, I was told over the phone that jackets were required. However, there were several men in 'business-casual' type dress eating there. Why not call for a reservation (WAY in advance) and let the host know your husband would prefer to dine in a sweater and slacks--I doubt you'll have a problem. I thought the meal was truly spectactacular (oops, spelling error, but it kind of fits b/c the food was more than just spectacular). The food, besides being insanely inventive, was absolute delicious. It was more than just dinner--it was dinner-as-theater. We had the 25 course meal with upgraded wine pairings (I'm embarassed to say how much it set me back). I can honestly say, we were floored by about 20 of the courses. I don't think of Alinea as 'gimmicky'. And, it definately meets the requirement of "ingredients you can't get elsewhere". One of the dishes featured Alaskan char roe that had been flown in by a friend of Aschatz's. Your father, however, will probably be miserable there if he is a steak-and-potatoes guy. Stop by Al's Beef on the way to fill him up.

thaiobsessed wrote:When I made a reservation for Alinea, I was told over the phone that jackets were required. However, there were several men in 'business-casual' type dress eating there. Why not call for a reservation (WAY in advance) and let the host know your husband would prefer to dine in a sweater and slacks--I doubt you'll have a problem.

See, my guess is that may say "jacket required," but that's just code for "Don't come in jeans and a black AC/DC tshirt." As long as you "look presentable" (whether in suit and tie or dress slacks and sweater), my guess is that you'd be just fine. I'd also guess that if you call in advance, they're repeat the party line, "jacket required."

David "I never wear my hat when eating" Hammond

When we dined at Alinea one of our party "forgot" to wear a jacket. I called a few mins before our reservation and explained the situation, mentioning that my friend was still very well dressed. We were received warmly with no issues during the wonderful meal. Having said that, I see no problem with requiring a jacket. If appropriate dining attire is left up to the general public someone from somewhere is going to arrive in flip-flops and shorts. I find it easier to have a guideline.

I would jump at the chance to dine at Alinea on someone else's tab, or my own for that matter.

David Hammond wrote:

thaiobsessed wrote:When I made a reservation for Alinea, I was told over the phone that jackets were required. However, there were several men in 'business-casual' type dress eating there. Why not call for a reservation (WAY in advance) and let the host know your husband would prefer to dine in a sweater and slacks--I doubt you'll have a problem.

See, my guess is that may say "jacket required," but that's just code for "Don't come in jeans and a black AC/DC tshirt." As long as you "look presentable" (whether in suit and tie or dress slacks and sweater), my guess is that you'd be just fine. I'd also guess that if you call in advance, they're going to repeat the party line, "jacket required."

David "I never wear my hat when eating" Hammond

rhinopias wrote:Having said that, I see no problem with requiring a jacket. If appropriate dining attire is left up to the general public someone from somewhere is going to arrive in flip-flops and shorts.

And I still don't see why that's a bad thing

gleam wrote:

rhinopias wrote:Having said that, I see no problem with requiring a jacket. If appropriate dining attire is left up to the general public someone from somewhere is going to arrive in flip-flops and shorts.

And I still don't see why that's a bad thing

Ed, Ed, mood is wrong, mood is wrong!

Back in the day many fine dining establishments would provide a jacket for gentlemen that arrived unknowingly without one. The Cape Cod Room is a prime example.

Since returning to Chicago after 10 years in the DFW area, one thing I truly miss is sitting in a nice resturant next to a guy with shorts, flip flops, a tank top and the standard dirty baseball cap.

Tommy2dogs wrote:Since returning to Chicago after 10 years in the DFW area, one thing I truly miss is sitting in a nice resturant next to a guy with shorts, flip flops, a tank top and the standard dirty baseball cap.

In my opinion, Chicago is full of restaurants were you may have this experience - a restaurant where people happen to be paying $400.00 per person and celebrating a special occasion is not one of them. I enjoy the casual and the jacket required, everything has a time and a place.

Believe it or not, the de rigueur fashion piece for men this season is the velvet sportcoat. Dressy yet retro in a fun way and very stylish. Dressed up with a shirt and tie or down with a mock turtle neck or silk tee, all eyes will turn to you with your entrance.

Wives, girlfriends, boyfriends and significant others: It would make the ideal holiday gift! I know I would love to find one one under my tree...

Since this thread continues to overlap the "Dressing for Dinner" thread...

The food for thought provided here has led me to the idea that two things are true: 1) making a statement by dressing too casually for the environment is a form of narcissism ("look at me--my comfort is all that matters, and I'm so special, I'm not governed by your silly rules of decorum and your so-called social contract"); and 2), feeling humiliated when underdressed for the environment is another form of narcissism ("I just know everybody is looking at me and how shabbily I'm dressed--they must think I'm a rube"). The first is arrogance and the second is painful self-consciousness, but both are forms of an exaggerated sense of one's importance. And no doubt being excessively proud of one's duds is yet another form of narcissism. The lesson I've learned over the years is that the most comfortable thing is to make clothing a non-issue; and the best way to make clothing a non-issue is not to dress differently than the environment calls for, but to dress appropriately for the environment. The advantage of wearing the "uniform" (if you choose to think of it that way) is that it takes your clothing out of the equation, freeing you to relax and enjoy the company and the food.

BRILLANT observation!

One can also say that dress codes are among the last vestiges of exclusionary tactics used to promote a "have vs have not" multi-class society. The fact that the dress codes are only for men seems to prove we're looking at something from a by-gone era -- women are expected to dress up whenever they're in public, don't you know...

And besides, if Brad Pitt walked into Alinea wearing jeans and a black polo shirt, I find it very, very hard to believe they would turn him away.

For me, if a restaurant has a jackets-required dress code, I come in wearing a sport coat and take it off the minute I sit down. If the dress code is jackets suggested, depending on my mood I may or may not bring a sport coat along. I would prefer that restaurants trust their patrons to dress appropriately, but I will tolerate dress codes knowing that they WILL disappear sometime in the near future.

Mark

One can also say that dress codes are among the last vestiges of exclusionary tactics used to promote a "have vs have not" multi-class society.

Well, that and the $500 for dinner for two part.

One point, I made this before but I'll make it again, when you've made it inside one of those places by, among other things, dressing your part you are generally treated as if you were born there and they're fortunate to have you there. It is at the places a couple of notches below where class anxiety, manifested as hipness anxiety, seems to persist throughout the entire meal. But there's no question in my mind that I've been made more comfortable at, say, Trio or Everest than at any number of River North/Wicker Park restaurants of the minute.

If you'll forgive my saying so, that sounds pretty much like a textbook example of observation (1) in my post above.