Agami-Ridiculous Corkage Fee (Long)

First let me say that this post may annoy some folks, and if so, I don't mean to offend or come off as being a complainer.

While I'm not a huge foodie and haven't gone to many of the great restaurants in Chicago and the Chicagoland area, I do love dining out and trying new things.

Last week, I made a reservation for 7, a dinner for a group of girls I haven't seen in a few months.

I'd read about Agami in Metromix and while I'm not the biggest fan of sushi, it sounded interesting. I also liked the idea of it being in Uptown, an area that is just starting to turn around.

One of my friends emailed to say that the place was BYOB because they hadn't secured a liquor license yet. I had read the same thing on Metromix. We all decided to bring a bottle of Riesling.

When my friend and I walked into the restaurant, two woman were in the doorway ready to leave. They noticed my two bottles of wine and said "they are no longer BYOB and are going to charge you $15 to open each bottle". I looked at them and said quite simply "I'm not going to pay that". They wished us luck and I continuned through the next door. Another one of my friends was there and we were seated, waiting for the other four to arrive.

We discussed our options. I was upset that the person who took my reservation didn't mention it. But I hoped the server would be understanding and cut us a break.

Our waitress came by to introduce herself and eventually let us know about the $15 corkage fee for each bottle. My friend asked if there was any sort of grace period, since Metromix still said they were BYOB. The waitress said it ended over the weekend and did not offer any other option.

As more of my party came, I explained the situation and asked if they wanted to have the bottles open for the fee. Everyone was sort of on the fence, since a glass of wine would have put us out $8 anyway, and a martini around $11.

The waitress came by again, and my friend asked if there was anything else that could be done, also mentioning that no one said anything when we made the reservation. Still nothing.

When the whole party arrived (two girls late because they stopped to buy, what else, wine, we decided collectively to walk to a different (much less flashy) restaurant that was BYOB with no corkage fee.

I told the waitress and hostess we were leaving. They got our coats and we left.

I keep thinking I should have asked for a manager, or pressed harder. But I'm not one for confrontation. In my opinion, I felt that the waitress could have tried to give us a break, either by comping ONE of our four bottles, or lowering the fee. Considering this expense is something extra, and it costs little or nothing for them to open a bottle of wine and let us use their glasses, I didn't understand why it couldn't have been waived. Especially since our group would have had a $200+ bill even without liquor. Instead they let a party of 7 walk out the door.

I don't expect special treatment, whether it's a fancy restaurant, or new establishment. If Agami was BYOB across the board and we showed up and found out the charge was $15, we probably would have just said "oh well" and ate without the wine. But our understanding of it being a policy because they didn't have a liquor license puts it in a bit of a different light. I've been to other BYOB restaurants, including sushi places, and have never been charged more than $5.

I respect a restaurant's policies, but I left Agami feeling very frustrated. I do not plan on going back, no matter how good the food may be. Like I mentioned earlier, there are still plenty of places I have yet to try.

$15 sounds like a pretty normal corkage fee for a restaurant that is BYOB but also has a liquor license. Did whoever made the reservation make sure they were still BYOB on the phone?

I don't think there are any problems with the restaurant's policy or behavior.

Regarding the cost, since a glass of wine is $8 and a martini is 11, and they can reasonably assume that you would drink if you didn't BYO, they almost certainly do stand to lose something by letting you BYO for free, upwards of $60 for your party of seven. Even if you know you won't pay for their booze, they see you with four bottles of wine and assume you would.

Edited for correct party size and more correct booze spending

My take? I don't think you were wrong--but I don't think the restaurant was wrong either.

The waitress did tell you right up front about the corkage fee, so it's not like the Feast situation recently discussed, which involved insufficient (if not outright deceptive) information. Agami clearly wants you to order your liquor from them, not bring it yourself, and the high corkage fee is meant to encourage the former behavior and discourage the latter. Their prices for wine by the glass sound highish, but not outrageously high.

Could you have gotten a different result by talking to the manager? Maybe. Did Agami cut off its nose to spite its face by letting a party of seven walk out the door? Probably. On the other hand, could you have chosen to keep your BYOB bottles in the bag for another occasion, and ordered your drinks from Agami at their not unreasonable prices? Yes, you could have. But you and Agami made different choices than those. Personally, I don't see that a grievous offense was committed by the restaurant, and I don't think you were wrong to leave, if that's what seemed like the right thing to do at the time. I'd let it go.

Good for you. Getting up and leaving should give a clear message to management, that something is wrong, and should be corrected.

I am so tired of servers/restaurants that think they are doing you a favor by serving you a meal, and then can not figure out why people do not return for a second meal.

Reminds me of a visit to Tweet, which was listed online as BYOB at the time, but apparently had just gotten thier liquor license. We brought a bottle of wine, and were informed after we sat down that if we wanted them to open the wine, there would be an $18 corkage fee. Instead, we ordered a $14 bottle of wine off their (very reasonable) wine list. I used to thnk the purpose of a corkage fee was to cover the cost of providing glassware; I don't understand the economics in this case.

nr706 wrote:I used to thnk the purpose of a corkage fee was to cover the cost of providing glassware; I don't understand the economics in this case.

I think there are two purposes:

1. To recover the actual costs of serving the wine/beer/whatever
2. To recover the loss the restaurant may or may not incur when you BYO. For a place trying to sell you wine and cocktails, the loss per BYO is probably higher than a place trying to sell you soda.

gleam wrote:I think there are two purposes:

1. To recover the actual costs of serving the wine/beer/whatever
2. To recover the loss the restaurant may or may not incur when you BYO. For a place trying to sell you wine and cocktails, the loss per BYO is probably higher than a place trying to sell you soda.

I understand that; what I don't understand is charging $18 just to open my bottle vs. $14 for a bottle of their wine.

Whenever a new place opens up, they tend to be BYO for a while til the liquor license gets issued, etc. I usually ask on the phone when making reservations whether or not they are still BYO. A couple of times I've called & the restaurant had just gotten its license so I was glad I asked.

I don't think it was wrong of you to ask and I don't think it was wrong of the restaurant to not let things slide either. Just unfortunate.

Also, $15 for the corkage fee seems reasonable. I think I read somewhere that some restaurants that are not BYO set their corkage to be whatever the lowest priced bottle on their wine list is. But I'm not sure how wide spread that practice is.

nr706 wrote:I understand that; what I don't understand is charging $18 just to open my bottle vs. $14 for a bottle of their wine.

Good point Was $14 one of the higher-priced wines? Or was the list mostly $30+? Maybe the corkage should never be higher than the cheapest bottle?

I'm also of the opinion that a restaurant that has recently gone BYO should waive the corkage for the first, say, month after they get their license. Give the license news time to trickle down to the masses and all.

And I think the corkage if you happen to bring a bottle that is already on their list should be either the cost of the bottle on the list or their markup.

Now that we know that Agami isn't BYOB (and the reasonable price of their corkage), has anyone tried the food?

Agami
4712 N. Broadway
773-506-1854

gleam wrote:Was $14 one of the higher-priced wines? Or was the list mostly $30+? Maybe the corkage should never be higher than the cheapest bottle?

Admittedly, the $14 bottle was one of the lower-priced bottles on the list.

But this thread reminds me (off-topic divergence alert!) of an experience I had at Chef's Station (an outstanding restaurant, by the way, that hasn't gotten much recognition on LTH, but Peter Mills knows how to run a quality joint). It had been several months since he'd gotten his liquor license, but it was still listed as BYOB on Metromix and The Reader. He waived any corkage charge. A very classy guy. Not sure he'd still do that, though. (I believe there's a $15 corkage fee now, but the wine list is very good - a Wine Spectator award-winner.)

BTW, David Richards, the chef at Sweets & Savories, was formerly the chef at Chef's Station ... it's possible that Chef's Station could become a chef incubator a la Trio.

Chef's Station
915 Davis St. (Ground floor of the Metra train station)
Evanston

I ate there with a group of friends a few months ago, but was too lazy to post. I haven't been back, so that says something ...

Agami is one of those dark, cavernous, slicked-up joints with gigantic flat-screen TVs positioned everywhere, showing footage of various underwater creatures. So the Baby Einstein fishy movies were okay, but things went downhill quickly after that. The first thing our server told us was that she "wasn't into sushi" and couldn't recommend anything from that part of the menu. We all ordered sushi anyway, and it was ... below average. I'm sorry I can't offer more details, it has been a few months, but I distinctly recall that the rolls and sushi were poorly rolled, seaweed wrappers and rice flying everywhere. My dining companions also commented that the miso soup was undersalted and rather bland.

The service was also excruciatingly slow, and our meal (4 people) took a good two hours to complete -- including 20 minutes to bring us some Japanese ice cream. Thank God for the fishy movies. I have no plans to return.

Perhaps the corkage fee is a little high, but I don't think that's such a big deal -- some places are free, some are $10 and others are $20 or more. And when you get to a restaurant with a corkage fee, you just have to compare the value of your wine to the cost of wine on the restaurant's menu. Booze is where most restaurants make their money. Some restaurants have items on the menu which are being offered slightly above cost because they know they're going to make up the money on alcohol.

Now, if the restaurant was BYO and did not have a liquor license, that would be another story. But I think the onus is upon the customer to call first. As noted earlier, it is a very time consuming and painful process to get a liquor license in this city and many unexperienced restauranteurs (and even many experienced ones) end up being open for months before getting their liquor license. And of course, when calling a restaurant to inquire about the corkage fee, always make sure that the restaurant does not offer the bottle of wine that you plan on bringing.

Restaurants aren't required to conform to what online listings say about them.

Having myself written "cash only" only to have it appear in print as "major credit cards accepted," I will tell you not to rely on what you read in any matter that truly concerns you. Call ahead to check on hours, prices, reservations policies, parking, BYOB, credit cards and whether that really scrumptious-sounding dish you read about is still on the menu.

The writer could have gotten it wrong. The editor could have changed it (see above). The restaurant could have changed between the time the writer talked to them and the item was printed or posted. The restaurant could have lied to the writer (this happens all the time).

You can read all over the place that Matsumoto has a $45 prix fixe, apparently based on Cathy2's original comments here. But they must have discontinued that right away, because they didn't have it when I went there a month later. I was just working on a story for which an editor told me to call a particular restaurant because they had a dish that fit -- he had a photo taken two weeks before. But by the time I called, they were no longer serving it.

Always call first.

The corkage fee at a place with a license doesn't exist to cover the cost of glassware. It exists to discourage you from bringing your own wine, and to encourage you to buy your wine from the restaurant.

Which makes perfect sense to me.

I read about a place on Metromix that is actually closed. Boy, I would have let the management hear about it, if the place hadn't been closed and if I weren't so averse to personal confrontation. Glad I can vent about it anonymously here, though.

I think we are missing the point.

It is not the price of the wine or a corkage fee, but rather that the management of this place, let 7 customers walk out the door.

It is ten times harder to gain a new customer, than it is to retain one. A couple of hundred people have looked at this thread, and some of them will not consider going to this restaurant.

Would management have been better served by making some kind of deal with this group? A free app would have probably made them happy, and not as concerned about the corkage fee. Hell, the cost of the raw food for the app probably would only have been a couple of dollars.

I'm not missing that point.

I just think there's nothing wrong with a restaurant letting a party of seven walk out the door, if that's what the restaurant chooses to do. Certainly they're aware of the potential negative consequences of that action, and if they choose to do it anyway, that's their choice.

In the event that the management was not aware, and the server acted as a "lone wolf" to let the large party get away without bringing the issue to management's attention, that server should probably be fired.

I just can't get exercised over this, or see that there's any reason to wish that the outcome of the incident had been different. I can tell you that in the unlikely circumstance I found myself part of a group going to Agami in the future, I wouldn't nix the prospect just because of what I've read in this thread. I don't think the restaurant behaved abominably or outside the bounds of professionalism by any stretch of the imagination. It might have been nice of the restaurant to comp the corkage fee under the circumstances, and it might have been shrewd, but it wasn't required.

I agree that this could have been handled better. But I can't blame the restaruant for having a corkage fee and enforcing it. Two friends of mine opened up a restaurant* in New York in May and only just got their beer and wine license. Even though they were packed every night, got written up in the Times, bought provisions sensibly, etc., they were not making any money (even to pay themselves) until they got their license. Working fifteen, eighteen hour days, that can get old. Restaurants do not have control over how up to date their Metromix listing is, and it does sound like they had some sort of grace period.

Kristen

*Queen's Hideaway in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. I ate there over Thanksgiving and it exceeded even my already high expectations. The chef is a huge fan of her WSM, and the menu, which changes daily, reflects that.

Do you remember college orientation when the dean had you look at the guy next to you and said "one of you won't be here next year"?

Agami won't be here next year. They are trying to import LP, downtown, Bucktown or Randolph Street pricing in Uptown, which is just starting to turn...I hope it keeps going, but from what I saw of Agami and now heard, they won't be around long.

I first became aware of Agami because they are close to my house and, strangely there was several "reviews" of the place before the place was even open. I understand thats how things are done in Hollywood, but you would think restaurant reviews would be based on anonymous visits to an actual working restaurant. If this place needs that much buzz, I doubt they can stand on their food alone.

...so, back to our regularly scheduled topic.

Bravo, hurray, congratulations, vote with your dollar, unchain your lunch money and good for you. There are way too many restaurants in Chicago vying for your business...give it to them.

I'm not sure where Gleam was going with his first post, but he comes back to the point I will agree with in his second post. THERE SHOULD BE A GRACE PERIOD.

LAZ is, of course, correct. A restaurant does not have to conform to what is printed about them. She also makes a great case for the mistakes that happen. However, it is also the case that newly opened restaurants are trying to capitalize on the liquor license delay, by opening without a license and letting folks know they can try their place BYO rather than dining at a place that has a liquor license...sort of a grand opening special.

I agree with LAZ, call, call, call. When dining with a smaller group you can take risks. I applaud your efforts to move 7 people to a new destination.

BTW, if it is not clear from the previous posts...there are two catagories of BYO restaurants: (i) BYO-limited, that open with a license pending and (ii) BYO-always. The BYO-L's just opened without greasing the right palms, they are usually larger, mid-level or upscale places. The BYO-always are near schools (Tango Sur) or other prohibited zones or simply do not have the traffic to afford a liquor license like many smaller restaurants or places where booze is served.

Now, for the personal story, to this day I won't step in Cafe Salmarie in Lincoln Square. At the time, my friend and I would look for BYOs on a regular basis. Once in a while we would run across those that finally got a liquor license. The Dellwood Pickle is the one I remember. They said, we got our liquor license last week, so at the end of the month you will no longer be able to bring in your own. Sadly, the BYO policy at Dellwood and Tomboy were what these places had going for them that made them so popular (Andersonville still has block by block prohibitions on Liquor Licenses), the Dellwood closed a year or two after it got its license. I have not been back to the re-concepted Tomboy, which now sports a liquor license.

At Cafe Salmonella we were met at the door by one of the owners who said the Cafe just got their liquor license the day before...they only had a few items even stocked. We asked if they couldn't let it slide, a snippy retort about being cheapskates was returned. This, after the huge sign in the window was still up. I said "best of luck, plenty of competition in Lincoln Square" and we walked out.

No doubt someday they will realize the chain of economic harm they let loose that day....I just may have to wait another seven year for it to take effect

I guess the question is where does a restaurant's responsibility to provide hospitality begin or end. If they are over-booked should they try call another place for you, should they let you know the wait is going to be 45 minutes, should they have provided an amuse, comped something? Just about any small gesture would have cured what ailed about 75% of the folks, maybe not made them happy, but at least shown an effort.

Sometimes a restaurant will get an A for effort, sometimes a return visit.

In the end, we all have to have some degree of trust for the people who prepare our food. I think a grace period of two or three weeks is reasonable.



p.s., I'll leave whether you should let Metromix know about the change policy for your own discretion, but do you think if they had the restaurant's phone number wrong, metromix would not have been informed?

pdaane wrote:I guess the question is where does a restaurant's responsibility to provide hospitality begin or end.

I agree you were treated abominably by Cafe Selmarie, and I wouldn't go back either if it had happened to me.

But it doesn't sound like the staff at Agami treated the party rudely. The server simply spelled out the policy. I agree the restaurant could have been more accommodating, but there's a difference between failure to "go the extra mile" and failure to meet minimum standards of courtesy.

In direct answer to your question, the only thing I hold a restaurant responsible for in the hospitality department is to treat me with a professional level of courtesy and respect. Anything beyond that is icing on the cake, icing which makes me more likely to return, but without which I still feel the restaurant has held up its end of the bargain such that I won't cross it off my list.

It is not the price of the wine or a corkage fee, but rather that the management of this place, let 7 customers walk out the door.

Yes, but the real point is, what do you call that? I don't call it rudeness, but I do call it shortsighted. Everyone was entirely within their rights, but for a business, being right isn't the same as being friendly-- or smart. I would have waived the corkage on the first bottle, or done something, to make the customer feel better about a surprise when they walked in the door, even if the restaurant wasn't to blame for the fact.

I get back to the point that most restaurants survive on alcohol -- of course, there are exceptions . . . Schwa for example (which hopefully will survive for a long time!). And some restaurants are not BYO by choice, but because they got rejected for their license and then proudly claim that they always "desired" to be BYO, but I digress.

What if you look online (not at the restaurant's website, but say Metromix) and see a listing of prices for items on a menu, you go to the restaurant, and notice that the prices have increased 10%. Should you have a grace period for this price increase? If a group of 8 threatens to walk out unless given a discount, should they get their way? Of course, the restaurant might be in trouble if it does not give in because they booked the reservation and might have turned others away who tried to reserve a table. But in the case of Agami, a group of 8 consuming four bottles of their own wine without a corkage fee might cost the restaurant $50-100 in profit (by not ordering the restaurant's wine). And if they make an exception for one group of 8, where do you draw the line. What if a table next door overhears about the "exception" for the one table.

Perhaps the restaurant should have given them one corkage fee on the house -- I don't know. But I think this is a far cry from the previous posts concerning Feast (there's no indication that Agami holds itself out as BYO) and if I had drawn the reaction at Cafe Selmarie that Pdaane did, I would never return either. But when you call a restaurant to make a reservation, I don't think that they need to tell you that they are no longer BYO if you don't ask about bringing your own wine. Of course, if you ask if you can bring your own wine, then I believe any upstanding restaurant will mention the corkage fee.

But I have absolutely no problem with how Agami handled this particular situation.

How about an analogy?

I've been eating at Joe's for about 5 years and for 5 years probably longer he has had buy one get one free chicken dinners on slow Tuesday nights...customers expect it. Well this Tuesday happens to be the night of the "big game" and Joe decides he will not have half price dinners.

I would expect Joe would put this in his advertisements and let everyone know who calls in and perhaps have a sign that you could view before being seated.

I doubt there is any notice when a liquor license will be issued. I'm all for ending the BYO policy that night, don't encourage folks to go next door and grab a bottle, take down your BYO sign, don't offer directions to the nearest liquor store, etc.

But if a group of seven shows up not having any idea of your change in policy, ready to spend money in your restaurant and may add to the buzz by talking up your place of business to several friends without ever mentioning the BYO policy...you are an idiot if you let them out the door.

Peter Druker passed away this year. One of his best lessons IMHO: It is not enough to know your customer base, you need to know who should be your customer and why they are not.

Should a group of seven who would spend $200 on sushi without adult beverages in a newly opened restaurant that has not yet had a lot of word of mouth be your customers? Apparently Agami doesn't think so.

BTW, I may have been a bit overly dramatic. I think the retort from Cafe Salmarie was something to the effect that we should be able to afford their prices.... I didn't find it nearly as rude as not allowing a grace period.




I also expect the Ambassador East to let you know that at Easter Brunch Buffet an 18% gratuity will be added for all parties (not just parties of six or more). Not 10% for Buffet dining. But that is another rant.

BR wrote:I get back to the point that most restaurants survive on alcohol --


...without a corkage fee might cost the restaurant $50-100 in profit (by not ordering the restaurant's wine).

I am not sure I would agree with your statement that MOST restaurants survive on alcohol, but I am sure it is a kicker for the right place which may help keep prices on food down.

There are several assumptions in your second statement. However, assuming the restaurant does make a profit on $14 maki rolls in Uptown , whether the restaurant as a whole turns a profit, wouldn't they have lost $50-100 (the same profits they "lost" the week they had a BYO policy), plus the profit on the food?

Yes, we can discuss lost potential or unrealized profits, but this comes down to customer service issue.

As I said above, the OP should have called ahead if it was important or been prepared to leave when they did not cut her some slack. She left and I applaud her decision.

pd

pdaane wrote:

BR wrote:However, assuming the restaurant does make a profit on $14 maki rolls in Uptown , whether the restaurant as a whole turns a profit, wouldn't they have lost $50-100 (the same profits they "lost" the week they had a BYO policy), plus the profit on the food?

Perhaps so, but there is nothing for us to be angry about in this event. It is the restaurant's business, and the restaurant's loss. There is no cause for customer complaint. It is not a moral or ethical issue, and it concerns no one on this list. (Unless someone on this list owns Agami.)

Riddlemay,

I am not sure I understand your response. I have nothing against Agami selling $14 maki rolls or those who are willing to pay that.

I was pointing out to those posters that commented about the lost liquor profits, that in the case of the OP, Agami lost the liquor profits, food profits and the opportunity to generate some healthy buzz...

"Yeah, we went to Agami and even though they are not BYO any longer they comp'd the corkage on two of our bottles, cool place, fish movies...you ought to try it"

Anyone here want to quantify that in advertising dollars?

Interesting thread; almost makes me want to study restaurant economics (almost).

Off-topic, I know, so forgive me. I wonder how much Agumi, should it be (or chose to remain) a BYO restaurant, would need to raise prices on food in order to offset its having to forego profit on alcohol sales, and still meet its profit projections? How large of a profit margin is there on alcoholic drinks vs. food? How much is a liquor license?

It brings to my mind Nohana and New Tokyo, two sushi places in Lakeview that are right across the street from each other in the 3100 block of Broadway. Nohana has a liquor license and has seating for about, I'd say, 80 people. New Tokyo doesn't, and has seating for about 25. New Tokyo's prices are a little higher (maybe about $2 or $3 higher for a standard sushi combo). New Tokyo doesn't have a corkage fee (at least not when I went there a year ago). Food at both are at the same level of quality. It made me wonder if Nohana must be making money hand over fist or whether New Tokyo must have super lean-and-mean operations to be able to survive.

Maybe Agumi could come up with a policy along the lines of "Waiver of corkage fee for one bottle per 7 customers or $200 purchase of food" or something like that.

I think I just made things too complicated. I tend to do that.

Theres a clear moral to this story:

1) no matter what you think the BYOB policy is, or what you've experienced in the past, when making a reservation ALWAYS confirm the current policy and price and GET THE NAME OF THE PERSON.

It's not up to them to remind everyone who makes a reservation that the BYOB policy has changed. BYOB is an "exceptional" policy and the diner really should confirm it whenever they make a reservation.

pdaane wrote:Riddlemay,

I am not sure I understand your response. I have nothing against Agami selling $14 maki rolls or those who are willing to pay that.

Hi, pdaane. I'll clarify.

When I said there is nothing for any of us to be angry about, I was talking not about the restaurant's price for maki, but the restaurant's letting a party of 7 walk out the door over the corkage fee.

As long as the restaurant was upfront and polite about the policy (which it sounds like they were), losing a party of 7 is a business decision that is entirely the restaurant's to make. It is not a moral or ethical choice, it is purely a business decision, and as such there is nothing for us as customers to be exercised, riled, perturbed, indignant, or otherwise miffed about. Perhaps the restaurant's accountant has reason for concern about the decision, but none of us do.

The restaurant acted entirely defensibly in enforcing its policy; the party of 7 acted entirely defensibly in walking out, if it really felt it couldn't save its BYOB wine for another night and couldn't bring itself to pay the corkage fee; and anyone who chooses not to patronize Agami because of this incident is certainly within his rights to make that choice. What else is there to say--and what is the reason for the righteous indignation over what happened that night?