Francesca's North - Not Bad for Suburban Mall Food

Last night I had the opportunity to go to Francesca's North, part of the exploding Francesca's empire (15 locations by their count). The occasion was a family party to celebrate my nephew's college graduation. We were a party of 18 and were seated at a long table in a narrow part of the room next to the open kitchen; away from the main dining room. The space is decorated in that particular style of suburban restaurants where everything is neutral earth tones and there is a preponderance of wood (floors, booth, wainscoting, etc.). The room was much more spacious than Mia Francesca on Clark, where diners are packed cheek to jowl.

We ordered off the menu, which was fairly simple and consisted of 6 or so pasta dishes (none of which could come close to passing the Antonius authenticity test), a couple of different chicken preps, a veal dish and a couple of fish preps. I was vacillating between ordering their version of chicken vesuvio, which they call chicken Romano and the grouper. Upon asking the waitress her recommendation, she didn't hesitate for an eye blink to recommend the grouper, saying that is is her favorite dish on the menu...so grouper it was. It turned out to be the thinnest piece of grouper I have ever seen in my life, resembling a piece of whitefish. It was dredged in flour and pan cooked in a bland and inoffensive manner, topped with a mixture of sun dried tomatoes, button mushrooms (although several kinds of wild mushrooms were on the menu in other dishes) and green beans.

Francesca's North Grouper


Service for our large group was actually pretty good, friendly and efficient (there were no gaffes and everyone's meals were delivered correctly with no mistakes), if somewhat mindless. For example, the bus boy who was assigned to offer freshly grated Parmesan cheese, offered it to everyone. Not only those who had ordered pasta, but even to me for the top of my fish and to the Chow Poodle for the top of her chicken. Deserts, served family style, were nothing special and included an insipid bread pudding, a pretty good lemon curd tart and good cinnamon ice cream.

Overall, for a large group I would say that Francesca's North is one small step above Mangiano's and a giant leap above Bucca de Beppo.

Francesca's North
1145 Church Street
Northbrook, IL
847-559-0260

I'd call for an investigation. That looks like a fillet from one side of a 2-lb catfish. I suppose it could be the "tail end" of a grouper fillet, but it tapers at both ends. Maybe it was from a really, really small grouper.

Seems to be a lot of grouper around all of the sudden in Chicago. I have no reason to doubt Francesca's grouper, other than my lying eyes, but I wonder if the fish marketer who came up with Chilean Sea Bass and "Pacific Snapper" has recently named a new kind of "grouper." Maybe it was a Nile Grouper.

I've eaten there several times (it's local for me), and would completely concur in stevez's assessment. Not a destination, but an enjoyable meal if you need one in the area. The only place that might provide equal or better food of this genre, Francesca's Hole in the Wall, doesn't take reservations and is quite popular, which renders it essentially useless for me.

Jonah

JeffB wrote:I'd call for an investigation. That looks like a fillet from one side of a 2-lb catfish. I suppose it could be the "tail end" of a grouper fillet, but it tapers at both ends. Maybe it was from a really, really small grouper.

Seems to be a lot of grouper around all of the sudden in Chicago. I have no reason to doubt Francesca's grouper, other than my lying eyes, but I wonder if the fish marketer who came up with Chilean Sea Bass and "Pacific Snapper" has recently named a new kind of "grouper." Maybe it was a Nile Grouper.

I think it's a new species of Grouper called Northbrook Grouper (as opposed to the infamous "square grouper" of Florida). If it was a tial end, they must only buy the tails, since all 4 people at our table who ordered this fish got exactly the same looking dish.

JeffB wrote:Seems to be a lot of grouper around all of the sudden in Chicago. I have no reason to doubt Francesca's grouper, other than my lying eyes, but I wonder if the fish marketer who came up with Chilean Sea Bass and "Pacific Snapper" has recently named a new kind of "grouper." Maybe it was a Nile Grouper.

Yes, I had some grouper at Nick's a few months ago, which may be the first time I've ever had this fish in Chicago (I try to have it a few times whenever I visit my folks in Florida). I'd have to concur that the filet in the photo does not resemble grouper I've had...but perhaps, as you say, it was locally caught ( ).

Hammond

I was actually talking about the Oreochromis niloticus, or Nile Tilapia, but I like the idea of a Niles Grouper, or even a Lincolnwood Grouper, more...

http://www.aquatext.com/images/fish%20etc/niloticus.htm

JeffB wrote:Seems to be a lot of grouper around all of the sudden in Chicago. I have no reason to doubt Francesca's grouper, other than my lying eyes, but I wonder if the fish marketer who came up with Chilean Sea Bass and "Pacific Snapper" has recently named a new kind of "grouper."

This source calls a number of fish "grouper." Some of them are quite small.

As I greatly prefer black grouper to other types, I always make a point of asking what kind of grouper it is when I see it on a menu; invariably the server has to go back and ask the kitchen. It's usually red grouper, but sometimes it's another fish.

BTW, the best black grouper I've had in the area consistently comes from Bob Chinn's. They don't always have it, but when they do, it's terrific.

As for Francesca's, order the carpaccio. I haven't been to the Northbrook branch, but it's nearly always wonderful.

Bob Chinn's Crabhouse
847/520-3633
www.bobchinns.com
393 S. Milwaukee Ave.
Wheeling

I was under the impression that this branch of Francesca's is not new, but has actually been around for quite a while. I know the husband has been going there for business dinners for at least the last 3 1/2 to the point that he has the menu just about memorized.

I don't think anyone claimed that it is a new branch.

LAZ, yeah, that's interesting. Rock sea bass, of course, is not Grouper. But it's on the list. I'm interested in the ones with grouper in the common name.

I did a little looking around, and it occurs to me that the "grouper" being sold in Chicago is mostly described as "bluenose grouper." My understanding is that the bluenose is a sea bass from New Zealand and nearby that is cheap and plentiful. Apparently, Chicago chefs have taken the lead in attaching the word "grouper" to bluenose in an attempt, possibly, to conjure warm and fuzzy memories among Chicagoans who have eaten Florida grouper. It seems that the fish are somewhat related, but to me that does not make up for what I consider to be a misleading implication. It is one thing to make up an appealing name (Chilean Sea Bass) and quite another to make up an essentially misleading name that plays off of customers' collective knowledge (Pacific snapper, bluenose grouper). Somewhat hilariously, I saw that bluenose is sometimes also called bluenose snapper. Whatever.

This is much like the Faux-ver Sole (west coast dover sole, aka flounder) I wrote about a while back. I suspect there's a lot more of this than we think.

I bought some real actual grouper at Dirk's yesterday. I'm going to get my grouper fix in the do-it-yourself manner...probably prepared island style with some sauteed onions, tomatoes, peppers and maybe some fresh mango thrown in if I can find a ripe one this time of year.

JeffB,

The blame for such deceptive language lies with the seafood industry, not the chefs.

I would agree that the industry has SOME responsibility in the mislabeling of fish. However, there are so MANY operators that MISLEAD their customers. If you menu says that you are serving "Icelandic Cod" it shoudl be Icelandic Cod, NOT Turbot or any other species.

If an operator is unsure of a supply and needs a preprinted menu, they ought to use the "Fish of the Day" moniker and thene designate on the date of service.

I have been served POLLOCK in place of CODfish a number of time and I send it back each time.

jlawrence01 wrote:I have been served POLLOCK in place of fish a number of time and I send it back each time.

Pollack is a fish, isn't it?



Hammond

David Hammond wrote:Pollack is a fish, isn't it?

It is, but just barely It's the stuff of cheap fish and chips, Krab, cheap fish sticks, etc.

Ronnie, that's a fair point, up to a point.

When someone with better information than the consumer continues the ruse, they bear some responsibility as well.

How are things such as Pacific snapper and bluenose grouper marketed to chefs?

JeffB wrote:It is one thing to make up an appealing name (Chilean Sea Bass) and quite another to make up an essentially misleading name that plays off of customers' collective knowledge (Pacific snapper, bluenose grouper).

I understand your point, though I don't think that's a great example. The number of fish that are called "sea bass" is staggering, and the Patagonian toothfish is nothing much like most of the others. "Chilean sea bass" is another misleading name.

However, if you were to apply the same logic to mahi mahi or orange roughy, I'd agree.

LAZ, is it that Patagonian Tooth Fish is rather unlike most sea bass, making the Chilean Sea Bass label just as unfair as Pacific Snapper? If so, I agree. I guess I don't feel as bamboozled by Chilean Sea Bass because "sea bass" generally means nothing to me -- unlike snapper and grouper. I thought Pac Sea Bass was more of a euphemism than a misleading name, but I seem to be wrong.

Many of these food fish are related at some level, and I believe Grouper are, loosely, a type of sea bass. Maybe I would like Chilean Sea Bass more if they changed its name to Chilean Grouper.

JeffB wrote:I'd call for an investigation. That looks like a fillet from one side of a 2-lb catfish. I suppose it could be the "tail end" of a grouper fillet, but it tapers at both ends. Maybe it was from a really, really small grouper.

Seems to be a lot of grouper around all of the sudden in Chicago. I have no reason to doubt Francesca's grouper, other than my lying eyes, but I wonder if the fish marketer who came up with Chilean Sea Bass and "Pacific Snapper" has recently named a new kind of "grouper." Maybe it was a Nile Grouper.

You know... I read this in passing a couple days ago and finally figured out why it was staying with me.

This is where the participants of this forum have it so far over me and over anybody else; I can't imagine anyone in my amateur circle being able to know this!

This is why I have to admit I'm a little intimidated around here sometimes!

JeffB wrote:LAZ, is it that Patagonian Tooth Fish is rather unlike most sea bass, making the Chilean Sea Bass label just as unfair as Pacific Snapper?

That's what I meant, but I agree about "sea bass" being rather meaningless, too.