Mike G wrote:I notice there has been a certain reluctance by certain BBQ mavens to say what they really think about Twin Anchors or the broader subject of actual, slow-cook barbecue versus restaurant-style steamed/baked/sauce-covered "barbecue."

Mike,

I'm not reluctant in the least, Twin Anchors does not serve BBQ, they serve Chicago style pork ribs, baked, then slathered with BBQ sauce and finished on a gas grill. There must be interaction with wood smoke for meat to be referred to as barbecue.

It just that I've said virtually the same thing over and over, in pretty much every medium possible, for the last ten years and sometimes get weary of the same old arguments. ~sigh~.

Just to head off the inevitable, I'm not picking on Twin Anchors, it's a cool bar with good burgers. I'm speaking in general, Twin Anchors is simply one example of many.

Enjoy,
Gary

G Wiv wrote:

Binko wrote:They have a very distinct barbecue sauce--I'm trying to pinpoint the exact taste, and I think it's allspice.

Binko,

Clove is one of the more forward flavors in Lem's BBQ sauce.

Enjoy,
Gary

Ah, so it's clove! Me and my brother were trying to figure it out. We thought we tasted hints of nutmeg and possibly cinnamon in there as well, hence our guess of allspice. Thanks.

helen wrote:That's our last time for this place.

That's too bad, because when they're on top of their game, they're on. To be honest, I have yet to find a BBQ place that is 100% consistent. I think it's just the nature of the beast. Even my beloved Barbara Ann's--some days the rib tips are juicy and perfect, other times, they're a bit dried out (but still full of smoky goodness). I'm guessing it all has to do with timing and when you order them.

Binko wrote:

helen wrote:That's our last time for this place.

That's too bad, because when they're on top of their game, they're on. To be honest, I have yet to find a BBQ place that is 100% consistent. I think it's just the nature of the beast. Even my beloved Barbara Ann's--some days the rib tips are juicy and perfect, other times, they're a bit dried out (but still full of smoky goodness). I'm guessing it all has to do with timing and when you order them.

It may also be due to the fact that you bought the BBQ and then drove all the way to Highland Park befoer eating it.

Based on recommendations in this forum I went to L. Woods last night. Had their dry rub baby back ribs, with mild and spicy sauce on the side ($21). The menu said the spicy sauce was homemade.

I didn’t think the ribs were great, but they were good. I also liked both sauces, especially the spicy one. It came with potato (I picked baked) and cole slaw. Thought these were very good. The big problem I had was, I thought the meat pulled away from the bone too easily and there was not a smoke flavor to them. These might just be part of my personal preferences.

The menu did advertise them as something like BBQ style ribs. I guess overall I would recommend them if you are in the neighborhood, a solid choice. But I don’t think I would go out of my way to try them. I was surprised to note that L. Wood is part of the Lettuce Entertainment Chain.

Next up Fat Willy's, or Honey 1.

Roger

If you want actual smoke and a bit more chew, I really think you'll be pleased with honey 1, barbara ann's, or lem's. Make honey 1 your next stop

dodger wrote:Based on recommendations in this forum I went to L. Woods last night. Had their dry rub baby back ribs, with mild and spicy sauce on the side ($21). The menu said the spicy sauce was homemade.

I didn’t think the ribs were great, but they were good. I also liked both sauces, especially the spicy one. It came with potato (I picked baked) and cole slaw. Thought these were very good. The big problem I had was, I thought the meat pulled away from the bone too easily and there was not a smoke flavor to them. These might just be part of my personal preferences.

The menu did advertise them as something like BBQ style ribs. I guess overall I would recommend them if you are in the neighborhood, a solid choice. But I don’t think I would go out of my way to try them. I was surprised to note that L. Wood is part of the Lettuce Entertainment Chain.

Next up Fat Willy's, or Honey 1.

Roger

I'm not sure who exactly recommended L. Woods for ribs. I suppose thay are passable for Chicago Style Baked Ribs, but if you go back (which I frequently do when entertaining my parents) the fried clams are really very good. House breaded and prefectly deep fried. They are listed as an appetiser, but the portion is large enough for a dinner for one.

I'm not sure who recommended them, I thought I read it on this forum.

I would agree with stevez that were more like what I have usually had in Chicago for ribs. Based on the appearance of the food on the other tables and some comments I over heard, I would say L. Wood is a pretty good place for other food choices. The steaks looked good.

Ok, next up Honey 1.

my favorite ribs, bar none, are the baby-backs served up at timber's charhouse.

Timbers Charhouse
295 Skokie Valley Rd.
Highland Park, IL

While I live in Highland Park, I have only been to Timbers a few times and a very long time ago. My interest was renewed today when I learned they only use wood charcoal to cook their meat. While I won't make it there for a while, I thought this may spike other people's interests.

Regards,

stevez wrote:I'm not sure who exactly recommended L. Woods for ribs. I suppose thay are passable for Chicago Style Baked Ribs

Supposedly there is some kind of barbecue process going on with L. Woods ribs, but the texture is definitely meat Jell-O, so it seems as if there must be some kind of boiling or steaming, too. I do know that when this place morphed from the late, lamented Bones, they junked the old smoker along with the decor.

The steaks are a much better choice. There's a decent skirt steak sandwich with crispy onion strings. The mahogany chicken is also pretty good. Friends of mine are fond of the planked salmon, but it doesn't do much for me.

Service can be very slow, so don't head there if you're in a hurry.

L. Woods Tap & Pine Lodge
847/677-3350
www.lettuceentertainyou.com
7110 N. Lincoln Ave.
Lincolnwood, IL 60712

Just thought I'd throw this in though it's not really about the thread but as I read through it, the boneless shoulders have been in the smoker since 5 am. Brined for 12 hours, rubbed down with homemade rub and put in the chamber at 5am. Cooking for 8-10 hours at 225-250, no mopping, until internal reaches 180 degrees, then chopped...not pulled or shredded.

I'm the guy who first threw in a good word about L.Woods' ribs, though I'm not sure I should admit that. I do think they're above average for that kind of place, but I'm not saying by any stretch that they're in Honey1 category. (Even though I've never been to Honey1, I can tell!) I think maybe the truth is they belong at the top of the class of "inauthentic, not really smoked or just barely, whitefolks ribs"--but being at the top of that category makes them worth mentioning, I thought (and think). I find the flavor and texture of the meat more interesting than at Carson's, Gale Street, Twin Anchors, and other such places. I suppose the main thought I was trying to get across was, "If you're thinking that ordering ribs at L.Woods is a waste of time, you're not completely right." The sauce isn't bad either, but it's the flavorful character of the meat that got my attention (and admiration). (Too often, in this kind of restaurant, the meat is merely some kind of "delivery system" for the sauce, but not at L. Woods.)

I've never had service issues at L.Woods, but we always order a drink first, and have some kind of appetizer or salad, and maybe that gives the kitchen more than enough time to get the entree out to us about when it should.

The half chicken half slab at Booby's in Niles is pretty tatsy. The chicken is usually very juicy and the ribs have a good texture, kind of crispy on the outside but softer as you bite. The sauce is sooooo good!


Booby's
8161 N. Milwaukee
Niles, IL

Gale Street is far an away my current favorite. Have not been to Honey 1 though...

J

Yesterday, feeling very lazy, I didn't want to travel far for ribs. Choosing between Timbers and Norton's for baked ribs I noted Cathy2's comment above and also remembered being there last autumn with friends who ordered ribs and said they were pretty good. So Timbers it was.

Unfortunately, they didn't live up to expectations. The ribs were on the dry side and lacked flavor. The accompanying mild slightly sweet sauce saved the day as it was nicely balanced.

It may be that because it was Father's Day they had made a lot of ribs ahead of time and had been holding them too long.

I had a combo with ½ slabs of baby back and of beef ribs. The beef were somewhat better, though not great. Maybe the greater mass of the beef ribs kept them from drying out as much as the oinkers.

For the purpose of clarity, I think we need to state something here, which Gary alluded to and has said before, but not in this thread.

There are two schools of ribs in Chicago - the dominant one is fall-off-the-bone, heavily sauced. The other is smoked and chewy, often with sauce on the side.

Many will make the choice of which is better into a quasi-religious argument. But really it is personal taste. The former is mostly about the sauce and soft texture; the latter is about recognizable meat and smoke flavors and texture.
Okay, I prefer the latter, if you have not figured it out, but I know many perfectly good people who like the former.

Pretty much all sit down Chicago places serve fall-off-the-bone, and one usually has to travel farther to find smoked bbq, with some exceptions like Honey1. There are also places that sort of fall into the middle - they started out trying to do traditional smoked barbecue and for some reason the process veered into fall-off-the-bone (I think a typical reason is that if you hold smoked ribs for any period of time they begin to turn into fall-off-the-bone ribs either because they effectively steam while they are being held, or the reheating process achieves the same effect). Or it could be to please their local clientele, or because they cannot find or keep a good pitman. Or maybe just because it is very hard to make and deliver consistently good, smoked ribs in a restaurant.

Another hybrid - I believe Carson's and Weber fall into this category, and I am sure George's in Harvey does - is the grilled rib. Cooked over charcoal, but with no real smoke, they can be almost perfect ribs, but you will never get any smoke flavor because no reall wood is used.

So if you ask someone for a good rib place, you need to ask whether the place is, or their preference is, smoked ribs, or fall-off-the-bone ribs. Otherwise you have no idea what is being recommended. Fall-off-the-bone lovers will likely find smoked ribs chewy, maybe dry. Smoked rib lovers will find fall-off-the-bone without meat and smoke flavor and texture

Within each of those categories there are places that do a good job, and many places that do not. The key challenge, as far as I can tell, is how you bridge the time required to cook the ribs, usually measured in hours, with the time customers are prepared to wait, usually minutes unless one has the foresight to order ahead and the ribs are prepared to your order.

Oof, that was tiring, and I am sure it will elicit some discussion.

Though I prefer smoked ribs, and find George's phobia about worms in wood pretty amusing, George's does make wonderful ribs. Worth trying.

I remember well one of the first times I met Gary over some Korean barbecue, and he began talking of his love of barbecue and skill with ribs. I asked one question - "do you parboil the ribs first?" (possibly with a slightly challenging demeanor) and received a look of horror in return. Fortunately I was able to make amends for insulting him.

Georges Rib House
(708) 331-9347
168 W 147th St
Harvey, IL 60426

Fat Willys, Gale Street Inn and Smoke Daddy are all excellent. I also was very surprised by the ribs at Grizzlies Lodge on N. Lincoln Ave.

dicksond,

That's an excellent post. I think it belongs in the Useful Stuff board, really. You cut to the heart of the Chicago rib debate without being judgmental. Posters should be required to read it before seeking recommendations for rib joints.

Me, I happen to love both kinds of ribs. I was raised on fall-off-the-bone and I've never shed my love for that style. I learned to love the smoke much later on, but it didn't supplant my affinity for fall-off-the-bone because--as you skillfully point out--they are two different things altogether. It's too bad that they share the same name.

FWIW, my favorite fall-off-the-bone place is Gale Street Inn. My favorite smoky place is Lem's (though I haven't tried Uncle John's yet). My favorite tweener is Fat Willy's.

The kids are gone overnight, so my husband and I decided we needed to have a special dinner by ourselves. Having read about George's and hearing about their fantastic ribs, we decided tonight was the perfect night to try them.

George's is not a dine-in establishment -- in fact, there is not even a chair to sit in while you are waiting for your order. Also, be sure you don't ignore the "No Cell Phones" sign on the door, as a customer found out while we were waiting for our two slabs of ribs. The counterman just kept pointing to the sign and refused to wait on her until the phone was back in her purse.

We got our ribs home and tore into them. Two giant slabs of thick, meaty ribs, accompanied by mediocre fries and white bread. We didn't care about the sides -- we just wanted the ribs. No meat jello here -- you had to work the meat off the bones. They were delicious and flavorful. My husband noted that you could taste the molasses in the sauce, which was mild, but had a good flavor.

This was our first trip to George's, but it won't be our last. I'm embarrassed that I've lived 15 minutes away for years and never tried it before.

Suzy

sdritz wrote:
This was our first trip to George's, but it won't be our last. I'm embarrassed that I've lived 15 minutes away for years and never tried it before.

Suzy

Back a good 20 years ago I was working the night shift at a 7/11 on Sibley in Dolton when a guy I recognized from behind the counter at George's came in at about midnight or so and bought up all of our white bread and a pack of Newports. I told him how much I loved the ribs at George's and tossed him the smokes "on the house". He asked me when I worked next. Next night about midnight he came back with a giant order of tips for me. Talk about finding a bearable way to get through the 11-7 at 7/11. I didn't last that much longer at that job thank god but he hooked me up a good 5 or 6 times after that. My wife and I made a road trip down there 3 or 4 years ago and I really enjoyed the ribs but they just didn't quite live up to the memory. I need to get back down there again.

sdritz wrote:This was our first trip to George's, but it won't be our last.

Sounds like a good place. Would you mind posting an address? Thanks!

sdritz wrote:This was our first trip to George's, but it won't be our last.

FrankP wrote:Sounds like a good place. Would you mind posting an address? Thanks!

I've been to George's a couple of times and found it good, though not to the same degree as Suzy. George is an interesting and idiosyncratic fellow who only uses lump charcoal in his Aquarium style cooker as, and I quote, "wood has worms and I don't want no worms in my BBQ" Really, I'm not making this up.





Enjoy,
Gary

George's Rib House
168 W 147th St
Harvey, IL 60426
708-331-9347

Thanks for the address, pictures and report Gary. George has an interesting BBQ philosophy, but not one that I share.

LAZ wrote:Supposedly there is some kind of barbecue process going on with L. Woods ribs, but the texture is definitely meat Jell-O, so it seems as if there must be some kind of boiling or steaming, too.

The one time we ate there I asked why the ribs were so soft (this was long before I knew anything about BBQ) and they explained that the ribs were "fork tender", or some such. This was a selling point. Maybe their target clientele have dental issues and need softer foods?

And their biggest selling starter is the chopped salad, a bowl of veritably pre-chewed greens and such.

"Take out yer teeth Maw, you won't need 'em here at L. Woods."

I mean c'mon, chopped salad??? Is it really that tough to chew lettuce for some folks?

Disgustedly,

Buddy

BuddyRoadhouse wrote:"Take out yer teeth Maw, you won't need 'em here at L. Woods."

Buddy,

Reminded me of this sign at Hilltop BBQ.



Enjoy,
Gary

Hilltop BBQ
67th and Racine

Gary's last post reminded me of a picture in Robb Walsh's Legends of Texas Barbecue where the sign pictured reads " Don't need no teef to eat my beef"

Buddy Roadhouse wrote:

And their biggest selling starter is the chopped salad, a bowl of veritably pre-chewed greens and such.

Actually, I like a good chopped salad. One of the reasons I like it is because it has a variety of ingredients chopped up small enough that if it is mixed properly, you get a taste of everything in the salad with each bite. It's kind of along the lines of a cobb salad with smaller pieces. Most chopped salads I've ordered contain cheeses and bacon or ham pieces, or even sometimes chicken, along with a variety of finely chopped lettuce and other vegetables. The flavors come together in a different way than if you have a regular salad and try to mix it up yourself.

Suzy

The good word I had to say upthread about L. Woods' ribs was based on a visit there a whole year ago (January '06). I had the ribs there again this past fall (I go there more often than that, but usually don't get the ribs), and whatever I liked about the taste of the meat on that earlier occasion just wasn't there. Nothing "objectionable," just pretty flavorless.

I'm have nothing against ribs the texture of which puts up some resistance, but I also have no problem with the meat jello kind. I just want the meat jello to taste like something, and these L. Woods ribs in the fall didn't. So I'm sorry if anyone here has ordered them on my recommendation of the better ones I had there last January.

I live near the Fireside on Ravenswood but have never had their ribs. Are they smoked or fall off the bone?