Can someone explain the appeal of foie gras to me?

Was just watching Iron Chef recently, and was once again unnerved by the lobes of foie gras flying everywhere. It reminded me of last Spring, when I went with my family to the Dining Room at the Ritz Carlton in Chicago. I'd never had foie gras before, and since the restaurant seemed to be a ritzy one (get it? I'm here all week, folks!), I figured it would be a good place to try it.

The foie gras course was a slice of duck liver, grilled crisp outside and still pink inside. I nervously took a bite--and I thought it was simply awful. It was, for want of a better description, like meat butter: alternately greasy, thick, and mushy, it tasted like a vaguely bitter, vaguely meaty chunk of room-temperature butter. I took two more bites to confirm my initial suspicions, then grimly pushed the plate away.

So here's my question: did I just happen to get a nasty chunk of foie gras? Was the chef's preparation suspect? For the record, someone else at the table was also turned off by the same dish, but I didn't get to ask her for specifics. This was also the same chef who thinks that scallops should be served on a bed of grits and bacon, doused in Hollandaise.

Or is this what foie gras is supposed to be like? And if this is what it's supposed to be like, then please explain to me why it's considered haute cuisine. Honestly, I'm open to new things: I've eaten all manner of critters, I've enjoyed Korean kimchi that was probably older than my grandpa...but this was probably one of the ickiest things I've ever sampled. Please enlighten me!

Edit: It is entirely possible that I'm just a low-class slob with no taste. Feel free to say so, if that's the case.

Dining Room at the Ritz Carlton Hotel
160 E Pearson St, Chicago

"meat butter" is a pretty good description. To each his own, but I am a big fan of this taste and texture, whether from liver, marrow, chicharon in salsa, pork shank, menudo, or egg yolks. Many folks have the same reaction you did, and it can happen with any number of delicious foods, whether fish roe, ripe cheeses, anchovy sauce, preserved tofu, kimchee, lard, durian, sea urchin roe, eel, oysters, etc. I can recall the first time I ate a tomato. I was two and I hated it. It's really grown on me.

By the way, you lost me on the scallop descroption, too. That ode to NOLA sounds pretty damn good, and it isn't so far from eggs Sardu, a personal favorite.

I haven't had foie gras more than a handful of times, but the one time that stands out in memory: Brittany, France. A sheep shearer relative of a friend brought his own, house-made foie gras, and it was divine. Rich, earthy, unctuous...heavenly. I guess it's not for everyone, but "meat butter" is okay in my book. I also had it at Jean Georges in NYC, and have to say...wasn't as impressed. So I guess it does depend on who's preparing it.

Whether or not you agree with how it's produced, if you're not a fan of liver--plain, pate, braunschweiger, liverwurst--you probably won't be a big fan of foie gras.

I read somewhere once that French cuisine, at its height, is always pitched right at the point between ecstasy and revulsion. (E.g., ortolans.)

Foie gras is an example of that. So over-lush with fat that I think it's not uncommon to be repulsed by it. Or to get past that by using only small amounts of it with other flavors and materials-- spread on toast points with a bit of sweet something or other, as with the cured foie gras at Volo talked about elsewhere.

But if it doesn't do it for ya, it doesn't do it for ya! That's okay!

Liver is a funny thing with me: I can't stand it in any form except good ol' Jewish-style chopped liver, with lots of raw onions and chopped egg (Chaim's Kosher Deli makes an outstanding one, surprisingly with beef liver; I've usually preferred those made with chicken). Braunschweiger repulses me, fried calves liver tastes like eating dirt.

So I've avoided foie gras, except where it's incorporated as a small smear amidst something else. Perhaps I'm losing out on one of life's great pleasures, perhaps I'm avoiding doing the technicolor scream at a 4-star restaurant. Texture is a big part of it: I dislike gelatinous mouthfeel, except in the richness of a broth or sauce or in dessert.

crrush wrote:if you're not a fan of liver--plain, pate, braunschweiger, liverwurst--you probably won't be a big fan of foie gras.

Actually, I disagree. Rich, buttery, seared foie gras ranks high on my list of favorite foods, but I don't care much for liverwurst, broiled calf's liver, liver-dumpling soup, sauteed chicken livers or anything else with a pronounced "liver-ish" taste.

The flavor of foie gras is, in fact, rather delicate. It's the unctuous texture that provides most of its appeal.

However, enjoyment of or distate for rich, creamy foods tends to be genetically determined by the number of fungiform papillae you have. People with a larger-than-usual proportion, called "supertasters," perceive fattiness more intensely than others. Publicblast, you may be a supertaster. If you also dislike bitter flavors, such as grapefruit juice, broccoli and black coffee, you almost certainly are.

LAZ wrote:However, enjoyment of or distate for rich, creamy foods tends to be genetically determined by the number of fungiform papillae you have. People with a larger-than-usual proportion, called "supertasters," perceive fattiness more intensely than others. Publicblast, you may be a supertaster. If you also dislike bitter flavors, such as grapefruit juice, broccoli and black coffee, you almost certainly are.

Weird. I love foie gras, it's one of my favorite foods. I'm ok with broccoli, but I absolutely cannot stand grapefruit juice (or grapefruit in any form really) or black coffee.

I've been seeing this concept of a supertaster discussed more often lately. Is there any sort of test one can take to determine what "grade" of taster you are?

I don't much care for liver either, but someone brought me a whole foie gras. On toast points and with sauternes, it was a treat. Otherwise I can take or leave it.

Come to think of it, there are a lot of foods some people consider marginal that I really like with the right kind of alcoholic drinks. Strong-flavored sashimi, I love with sake, beer or shochu. With diet coke, not so much. Strong-flavored game? Got to have wine.

jesteinf wrote:Is there any sort of test one can take to determine what "grade" of taster you are?

Try this link. (Scroll down to the tongue images.)

(I've always had a little bit of secret shame for not being a supertaster. Overachieving childhood habits die hard. But if it means I couldn't drink coffee or grapefruit juice, I suppose I can live without that particular gold star.)

Is there any sort of test one can take to determine what "grade" of taster you are?

No, but I know a song about it! (Scroll down to the list of titles.)

A relevant excerpt about testing your taster from a book I'm currently writing:

*****
Supplies you’ll need: blue food coloring, a magnifying glass and PTC or PROP and control filter papers (available at www.wardsci.com)

Experiment #1:
Step 1: Put a few drops of the food coloring on the tip of your tongue.
Step 2: With the magnifying glass, look at your tongue in a mirror.
Because the food coloring does not stain papillae, the teeny bumps that contain your taste buds, they will appear white against the blue dye on your tongue. If you have tight clusters of white papillae in the dyed spot, you may be a super-taster. Medium tasters will have scattered white bumps within the dyed area, and non-tasters will have very few white nodes.

Experiment #2:
PTC and PROP filter papers are small slips of paper that have been treated with bitter-tasting compounds. Place one of the three strips on your tongue, but shuffle the papers so you do not know which paper has been treated, and which is the control. Repeat with each strip. If any of the strips deliver a sharp, bitter punch to your taste buds, you are a super-taster. Non-tasters will not taste anything, and regular tasters may detect some bitterness, but it will not be overpowering. If you conduct this experiment with a group of people, you’ll see firsthand how taste really is in the tongue of the beholder.

Not to be flip, but if you have to ask....you probably don't like it.

To be sure, you should try it where it is known to be good. One place I know that is consistently good and a relative bargain is 4taste restaurant. I think the portion is like 9 bucks and they serve it with seared apples and a vanilla bean pan sauce.

If you don't like loud crowds or loud music, better to go when they open, around 5:30 or so.

4taste
415 N. Milwaukee
312-226-7850

Alternatively, Blackbird on Randolph usually has it on the menu in some form, and I have always loved their preparations.

If you are really ambitious, I once had a foie gras terrine at the french laundry that was alternating layers of foie gras and black truffle. I almost died.

crrush wrote:If you conduct this experiment with a group of people, you’ll see firsthand how taste really is in the tongue of the beholder.

I'd wager that a lot of participants in this forum are nontasters.

When I first experienced this test at a seminar, people all around me were making gagging noises. I put that piece of filter paper in my mouth and it tasted like ... a piece of paper.

I was feeling really inadequate about it until the lecturer explained that nontasters typically are adventurous diners who enjoy a broad range of foods, whereas, supertasters have such sensitive palates that they dislike a great many things and often become picky eaters.

Further, some characteristics are gender-linked. For example, female nontasters are more likely to enjoy high-fat foods compared to males. Jack Sprat could have been a true story!

Crrush, I'd love to know more about your book.

Another nugget-o-trivia:

Women tend to have a better sense of smell than men, and about two thirds of supertasters are women. During pregnancy, these senses are heightened even more. The theory is that women developed these senses as a primitive survival technique to help them identify bitter plants and berries, which were usually poisonous.

The book is about fine dining...due out in September 2006. I will definitely be flogging it for all it's worth closer to the release, but right now I'm squirrel-y with the details.

Foie gras, marrow... I love all that stuff. But there can be too much of a good thing. My husband and I went to Le Regelade in Paris a few years ago and we had the foie gras appetizer, expecting American-sized portions. So I was taken aback by the fact that I was served what appeared to be the whole liver, about the size of a soft-ball (standard, not Chicago.) It was great, but I started to feel a little force-fed myself by the end of the dish... you can only eat so much butter, meat or otherwise.

It's a funny thing, liver...

I mean, of all the organ meats, it's probably the least intrinsically (at least on paper) healthy, as it acts as a filtration device for the body (I guess kidneys might match up when it comes to surface "yuckiness") but it's also the one that can be rendered, perhaps, least organ-like in its preparation. Foie gras is great, if in small doses and with something to offset the inherent buttery richness (though I know a certain Canadian Goose and champion poker player who might disagree... oh, nevermind). At least, that's the only way I could ever eat it - a few bites and my taste and curiosity were both satisfied. When it comes to Jewish chopped liver, though, I (much like Joelf) could eat it, maybe, every day for lunch. I used to, when I was feeling like it, go through a pound of Kaufmann's chopped chicken liver in a few days, usually having it for breakfast and lunch on either their onion rolls or rye, or sometimes just a scoop of it, cold, on the side of some cabbage salad or beans. As for liver and onions, I think Gene and Georgetti's version might change the opinion of whoever thinks it tastes like dirt. So I guess the foie gras debate has died down in Chicago, and it's still legal to serve the oft-maligned organ? I guess so... unless, of course, you've been force-feeding the goose Lucky Strikes... sons-a-......grrr.....

--- Quackingrabbi

Count me in the "loves foie gras" category. It is a bit of an acquired taste (Think beer. Did you really enjoy your first one?).

The best I've had: Foie gras over a passion fruit chutney at the Guanahani in St. Bart. Simply amazing. To digress slightly, I never really liked tokaj until I started eating foie gras. What a pairing!

That being said, the preparation does make a difference. It needs to be served with something that complements it without overwhelming it.

hungryrabbi wrote:When it comes to Jewish chopped liver, though, I (much like Joelf) could eat it, maybe, every day for lunch. I used to, when I was feeling like it, go through a pound of Kaufmann's chopped chicken liver in a few days, usually having it for breakfast and lunch on either their onion rolls or rye, or sometimes just a scoop of it, cold, on the side of some cabbage salad or beans.

Reb -
I'm assuming a cardiologist discouraged that daily lunch?

And certainly you're not having it as a main course, eh?

Kaufman's chicken liver is particularly good indeed.

LAZ wrote:

crrush wrote:If you conduct this experiment with a group of people, you’ll see firsthand how taste really is in the tongue of the beholder.

I'd wager that a lot of participants in this forum are nontasters.

When I first experienced this test at a seminar, people all around me were making gagging noises. I put that piece of filter paper in my mouth and it tasted like ... a piece of paper.

I was feeling really inadequate about it until the lecturer explained that nontasters typically are adventurous diners who enjoy a broad range of foods, whereas, supertasters have such sensitive palates that they dislike a great many things and often become picky eaters.

We had this same taste in high school with PTC paper. IIRC, about 80% of the class tasted the bitterness. I remember it being horribly, revoltingly bitter, and it was quite odd to find out that some people didn't taste anything at all.

However, what I am curious about, is does tasting PTC or not really effect one's perceptions of a wide range of flavors, or is it simply sensitivity to a particular compound (phenylthiocarbamide)? If the latter, does this test really have any bearing how we taste food in general?

Thanks for all the replies--it's good to hear from level-headed people who have a variety of opinions.

JeffB wrote: Many folks have the same reaction you did, and it can happen with any number of delicious foods, whether fish roe, ripe cheeses, anchovy sauce, preserved tofu, kimchee, lard, durian, sea urchin roe, eel, oysters, etc. ... By the way, you lost me on the scallop descroption, too. That ode to NOLA sounds pretty damn good, and it isn't so far from eggs Sardu, a personal favorite.

1) That's the funny thing: I've enjoyed all those foods, excepting a couple of particularly stinky cheeses and oysters (raw ones, anyway). I like bitter foods too, and often disagree with my wife about whether something is edible or not. I'm not saying that foie gras is objectively bad or good or anything, but I was kind of surprised that so many people seem to like it and, well, I didn't.

2) Don't get me wrong: I like scallops, eggs, bacon, and I don't mind Hollandaise so much. But Hollandaise on a gentle little scallop was like mayonnaise on sashimi. Yikes! (BTW, I did actually try the appetizer in question.)

I'll have to try out my tastebuds later and see if I'm a "supertaster." I suspect that I'm not, but my wife may be.

I don't want to digress too far, but with regard to tasting, I am lucky enough (I guess you would call it that) to not have the ability to pick up the taste of a corked wine. In a wine tasting class, they passed around a small bottle that was alleged to have the same smell as corked wine. Some people at the table with me were gagging as soon as it opened. I had to almost put the entire thing in my nose to get any smell whatsoever.

Like an earlier comment though, the result may be that I seek out stronger tasting foods.

JoelF wrote:

hungryrabbi wrote:When it comes to Jewish chopped liver, though, I (much like Joelf) could eat it, maybe, every day for lunch. I used to, when I was feeling like it, go through a pound of Kaufmann's chopped chicken liver in a few days, usually having it for breakfast and lunch on either their onion rolls or rye, or sometimes just a scoop of it, cold, on the side of some cabbage salad or beans.

Reb -
I'm assuming a cardiologist discouraged that daily lunch?

And certainly you're not having it as a main course, eh?

Kaufman's chicken liver is particularly good indeed.

When I was younger, less informed, less health-concious, and living in D.C., that I ate a chopped liver, hard boiled egg, and red onion sandwich on rye at least 3 times a week from Toojay's Deli. Man, they loved to lay the liver on thick.

Nowadays, a small scoop on the side satisfies me. But I do miss those youthful, heady sandwich days.

Sorry to hi-jack the thread. Back on topic: I love foie gras, chopped liver, liverwurst, braunschweiger, pate, and liver and onions. Anyone who doesn't agree with me is obviously a philistine.

Yes, indeed, I vote an ardent yes (the kind from Molly Bloom's soliloquy) to foie gras, especially when combined with a Sauterne and a perfect baguette. I'm thinking a 1998 Château La Tour Blanche for the Sauterne. I wouldn't let the possibility that my blood might congeal into Silly Putty deter me.

Coincidentally, earlier today, I was thinking brisket and chopped liver on rye for lunch; however, I stuck to my diet and had mortadella and marinated eggplant on a decent Pugliese. That together with the one sit-up I did getting out of bed this morning, and I'm feeling like a tri-athlete confit.

fried calves liver tastes like eating dirt.

Probably because it was overcooked, and if it was dirt-like in both color and consistency, it was. The Milanese do it right. Flatten it out nice and thin, let it just touch the sizzling butter on both sides, serve it medium rare (pink inside -- altho now that I think about it, that might also pose problems for some people).

For those that DON"T like fois gras:

Might you be fat-phobic in eating? That has been a big trend in America for probably about 20 or more years now.

Do you enjoy the skin on fried chicken? How about nice crispy skin on sauteed duck breast? Or nice crispy pork skin, from a roast or whatever.

My first fois gras was from Naha - someone else ordered it and kindly let me have a bite so I could see if it was my thing. I loved it.

Naha sautees their fois gras, searing the outside. It's a fried fat indulgence in my mind.

I just wonder if fat can be a different issue than other food sensitivities. I've never done a supertaster test and have no food color in the house, but I sure hate those nasty veggies (including broccoli, cauliflower, asparagus...), sure hate coffee, sure hate beer, sure hate weird non-fruit things in wine (except classic wood influences) - enough to hardly be able to drink French red wine (and I'm big into wine). I also hate coffee, and can't begin to stand the bitter aftertaste of blue cheese (even in great ones where the upfront taste is super delicious).

I just don't know if fat factors the same into how people can taste. But some Americans have been trying really hard to get American "thinner" and pressing a fat phobia on us has been part of that.

At a graduation party last summer, ALL the teenagers peeled the skin off their fried chicken and mentioned they thought eating chicken skin was "gross". And these were boys.

Nancy

HI there! New here, first post.

I enjoy foie gras, have had it at several places and have prepared it myself as well. I have never not enjoyed it. I think perhaps another factor involved in the fat/rich/strong taste discussion here might be sensory overload. Often after having a rich/fried/pungent meal, I can not stomach the smell, let alone another tasting of the same. Ever go have fondue? The smell of oil on my clothes puts me off to anything remotely greasey for quite a while. Perhaps, like pairing foods together or with wine for harmony, what one has along with or prior to foie gras or any other rich food may also influence strong negative reactions. Certainly there are many factors involved and many are affected by previous experiences with similar foods or even non-food items that have strong smells. The one and only time I had made foie gras myself, my home smelled like it for days and upon entering I would feel nauseous. But I still love the divine way it melts in your mouth, hints of sweetness and subtle char from light caramelizing that occurs when seared just right, and as previously mentioned, when paired with a great sauterne. mmmmm. <floats away in ecstasy>

I know a little off-topic, but re: "eating pure fat," I've begun seeing a lot of chefs using lardo these days... I could never imagine eating it... blech...

When PublicBlast used the term "meat butter" like it was a bad thing, I knew simply that his tastes and mine differ.

The two main reasons foie gras tastes "bitter" to people is due to two things: blood and buning. If the veins, blood clots, etc. are not removed correctly when portioning, you can taste the blood, which gives off a highly bitter flavor. Also, with the animal feed consisting mostly of corn, which is high in natural sugar, foie gras has a tendency to burn quickly. Many people think it best simply to sear the foie in a smoking hot pan, thus burning the outside, again resulting in a bitter taste. With poper cleaning and preparation, the cooked foie should yield heavenly results.

If you want to try a stunning example of foie gras that isn't a very "intense" first experience (ie you aren't presented with a lobe of liver try the Foie Gras Creme Brulee at NoMI. Lovely.