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Davis Street Fishmarket - Cookbook?

Davis Street Fishmarket - Cookbook?
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  • Davis Street Fishmarket - Cookbook?

    Post #1 - January 20th, 2006, 9:44 pm
    Post #1 - January 20th, 2006, 9:44 pm Post #1 - January 20th, 2006, 9:44 pm
    I've been going to Davis Street Fishmarket ever since it opened. My mother insists upon dining there for her birthday and Mother's Day every year. In high school my brother and I would have random cravings for their chowdah and drive into Evanston just to eat some (and take some to go too!). Nowadays I even purchase a small container of their blackening seasoning to try and replicate some dishes at home. It's not enough.

    Over the past year I've written the restaurant letters and emails inquiring about any recipes they'd be willing to share. I wrote the Tribune to see if they'd do a piece on the restaurant for their Wednesday edition - Good Eating secition. Nothing has happened.

    Does anyone know of any recipes or possibilities of a cookbook out there?

    Am I alone? Would anyone be interested?
    :?:
  • Post #2 - January 21st, 2006, 7:57 pm
    Post #2 - January 21st, 2006, 7:57 pm Post #2 - January 21st, 2006, 7:57 pm
    I, for one, would love to get my hands on their chowder recipe. It's among the best I've ever eaten, maybe _the_ best, including all the chowder I ate when I lived in New England for two years. (I had to return to Chicago to get better chowder.)
  • Post #3 - January 21st, 2006, 10:17 pm
    Post #3 - January 21st, 2006, 10:17 pm Post #3 - January 21st, 2006, 10:17 pm
    _____Thank you Carol. I totally agree with you. I did my masters out in the suburbs of Boston and didn't find a place that had a similar flavor. I even attended Chowder Fest during the 4th of July weekend celebration and didn't find a comparison. So yes, I would at least love their chowder (preferably winter) recipe...and the Lafayette Maquechoux. :)
  • Post #4 - January 21st, 2006, 11:10 pm
    Post #4 - January 21st, 2006, 11:10 pm Post #4 - January 21st, 2006, 11:10 pm
    HI,

    While I am always happy to have a new recipe. I am somewhat dubious on restaurant cookbooks. I have friends who worked at restaurants that published cookbooks with their signature recipes. They recall how the restaurant made them and it didn't quite match what the cookbook recipes advised.

    Time Out magazine in one of its first issues did an article comparing the restaurant dish to that from their cookbook made at home. The comparisons were not only taste, they also compared costs to DIY to simply ordering from the menu. I refer to my comments from last March.

    Good luck in your endeavor.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
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  • Post #5 - January 22nd, 2006, 12:45 pm
    Post #5 - January 22nd, 2006, 12:45 pm Post #5 - January 22nd, 2006, 12:45 pm
    Cathy2 wrote:I have friends who worked at restaurants that published cookbooks with their signature recipes. They recall how the restaurant made them and it didn't quite match what the cookbook recipes advised.


    _____I can understand why they might do that. You're giving away a piece of yourself and your livelihood. While disheartening to the consumer, I can appreciate the mixed feelings with releasing it to the...public. Think how they could butcher your dish (no pun intended) and then provide negative feedback.
    _____I have the same problems with Top Secret Recipe's selection of copycat recipes. They seem to leave something (albeit small) out of their books. I'm not a cook who typically measures much (unless I'm making the dish for the first time), and I'm sure the chefs at the restaurants don't much either.
    _____There's a million factors that could affect the quality, consistency, and/or evolution of a dish. The soup recipe in question probably simmers most of the day in a quadruple batch of what I may make at home. I can't, and probably won't, replicate this feature. Many chefs have to make do with the ingredients they have that day and I'm not as experienced in making adequately supplemental substitutions. And the most important reason, I'm not a professionally trained or practically exercised cook! I'm just a guy who likes to cook for his wife and himself.

    Cathy2 wrote:Time Out magazine in one of its first issues did an article comparing the restaurant dish to that from their cookbook made at home. The comparisons were not only taste, they also compared costs to DIY to simply ordering from the menu.


    _____I identify with your conflicting feelings on restaurant cookbooks. I also grasp the misgivings presented in replicating a restaurant recipe from the Time Out Chicago article you alluded to. But I guess my response to your comment is, I accept the challenge!
    _____I understand that, for reasons comparable to a parent allowing a child to grow up and leave home, chefs may not want to divulge everything about a signature recipe as it leaves. I admit that it sometimes is more expensive for an at-home-cook to replicate the quality of some recipes. I also believe that sometimes just being encased in the ambiance of an eatery gives the food a "taste" not replicable in my kitchen. (Especially if there's a glass of Zin in my hand!)
    _____These factors just make me want the recipe all the more. Call me glutton for punishment, C2, but I'm game. Thanks for your thoughts on the matter.
  • Post #6 - January 22nd, 2006, 2:24 pm
    Post #6 - January 22nd, 2006, 2:24 pm Post #6 - January 22nd, 2006, 2:24 pm
    I think another problem with converting restaurant recipes to home recipes is that you're often doing a big volume shift. Just look at ryanj's shrimp dejonghe recipe!
    Ed Fisher
    my chicago food photos

    RIP LTH.
  • Post #7 - January 22nd, 2006, 4:30 pm
    Post #7 - January 22nd, 2006, 4:30 pm Post #7 - January 22nd, 2006, 4:30 pm
    Does anyone else remember the Chicago Magazine article of several years ago where the editors tried to carefully follow selected recipes from Charlie Trotter's first cookbook? As I recall, many of the recipes took several days to re-create, and despite being good home chefs they couldn't get them to look anything like what's shown in the cookbook.
  • Post #8 - January 22nd, 2006, 4:41 pm
    Post #8 - January 22nd, 2006, 4:41 pm Post #8 - January 22nd, 2006, 4:41 pm
    Trotter's first books are art books, not practical cookbooks, to my mind. (The same is true of The French Laundry Cookbook, to name just one. And I'd love to see someone try to cook at home out of this.)

    The exception to that for Trotter is Charlie Trotter Cooks At Home, which is probably the restaurant cookbook I've used more than any other; what for Trotter is quickly whipped-up, simple food works perfectly well for me as dinner party food, and every dish has the brightness of flavor you expect from him. It's not food I'd expect to be served at his restaurant, but it's certainly recognizable from the same hand and philosophy.
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  • Post #9 - January 22nd, 2006, 10:05 pm
    Post #9 - January 22nd, 2006, 10:05 pm Post #9 - January 22nd, 2006, 10:05 pm
    HI,

    There are always people who treat their recipes like state secrets. They might make it for you but they will never give away the recipe.

    I generally give recipes away freely, unless someone gave it to me and I don't have their permission to distribute it. While I give my recipes out freely, the reproduction in someone else's kitchen may not always result in the same end product. We may select ingredients differently as well as a different level of skill or our ovens may not be calibrated the same. I've been accused once or twice of withholding "something," though I have no idea what.

    Cookbooks worth their salt are thoroughly tested before they hit the sales rack. Some years ago after the Silver Palate team broke up, Julee Rosso raced out Great Good Food to take the competitive edge away from a pending Sheila Lukin's book, her former partner. Shortly after Julee's book came out, there were a number of articles about how many recipes simply did not work; which was unheard of in the Silver Palate series. Apparently in their competitive race to get Julee's book out, they shortcut on the testing.

    I'm not sure if restaurant cookbooks are not tested thoroughly or are raced out by the pressures of marketing and the promise of additional income. There might be some arrogance these recipes need no testing because they are coming from a professional chef. As gleam commented earlier it takes some skill to adjust up or down the volume a recipe produces, especially when it comes to seasoning.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
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  • Post #10 - January 24th, 2006, 3:09 am
    Post #10 - January 24th, 2006, 3:09 am Post #10 - January 24th, 2006, 3:09 am
    Cathy2 wrote:There might be some arrogance these recipes need no testing because they are coming from a professional chef. As gleam commented earlier it takes some skill to adjust up or down the volume a recipe produces, especially when it comes to seasoning.

    It's not only sizing down -- in fact, that's usually fairly straightforward.

    Restaurants often use ingredients or equipment not readily available to home cooks, so they adapt the recipes to make them more user friendly. For example, a restaurant might use liquid glucose or a commercial ice-cream maker to make its sorbet. The results you can get using sugar and a home freezer won't be the same.

    Further, it's a matter of who tests the recipes and where. If the chef tests his own recipes in his commercial kitchen, he may well miss problems or get different results from those a nonprofessional working in a home kitchen might encounter. Another problem with chefs' recipes is that there are techniques that are second nature to pros that they often don't think to spell out.

    That's often an issue with old-fashioned recipes, too. I have some old cookbooks with cake recipes that are little more than lists of ingredients. They just assume you know how to make a cake.

    My grandmother freely gave out her sponge cake recipe, but recipients used to accuse her of leaving things out. I had been helping her make it from the time I was old enough to reach the kitchen table and rarely had trouble (though it is a tricky recipe and even my grandmother sometimes had her failures). I finally realized that one of the keys to having it come out right is recognizing just how the batter should look when you proceed from one step to the next -- not something that can be communicated in a written recipe. Not to mention that her recipe makes assumptions about what the cook knows.
  • Post #11 - January 24th, 2006, 8:23 am
    Post #11 - January 24th, 2006, 8:23 am Post #11 - January 24th, 2006, 8:23 am
    I remember when we were at Uno's once a few months ago, the pizza tasted really wierd. It was mostly a strange consistancy in the crust. When we'd finished, we looked at the pan, and reallized it was a new pan, and was a shiny silver, not a matte black like the rest of their pans. We put down the strange consistancy to that. If that can have such a profound effect on taste of a dish coming from the same kitchen and the same cook, I think it is safe to assume that any larger change could have completely palate shatterings effects.
  • Post #12 - January 24th, 2006, 11:50 am
    Post #12 - January 24th, 2006, 11:50 am Post #12 - January 24th, 2006, 11:50 am
    LAZ wrote:Another problem with chefs' recipes is that there are techniques that are second nature to pros that they often don't think to spell out.

    That's often an issue with old-fashioned recipes, too. I have some old cookbooks with cake recipes that are little more than lists of ingredients. They just assume you know how to make a cake.


    Some years ago, there was a lecture at Culinary Historians on comparisons of Baroque music to recipes from that era. In Baroque music, if played as stated, then it is pretty flat. However the author assumed you knew how to play music, the harmony was a guideline. It was expected the experienced musician was supposed to add the trills and flourishes to flesh it out.

    Recipes from that era was the same thing. Outlining the ingredients was a guideline. How to construct it and any missing items were supposed to be recognized and included by the experienced cook. The detailed step by step recipes which are standards today is a relatively new phenomena.

    I will estimate the reason most restaurant cookbooks are disappointing is our ability to go to the establishment and compare results. When they are not the same, then we feel lead down a blind alley.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
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  • Post #13 - January 25th, 2006, 1:56 am
    Post #13 - January 25th, 2006, 1:56 am Post #13 - January 25th, 2006, 1:56 am
    Rob wrote:If that can have such a profound effect on taste of a dish coming from the same kitchen and the same cook, I think it is safe to assume that any larger change could have completely palate shatterings effects.

    Some time ago, I was in charge of organizing a series of theme parties held at various locations across the country over the course of several years. We had a corps of volunteers to help out, often different people in each place, but we tried to have some consistency in the food served.

    One of the things we served were ANZAC biscuits, an Australian cookie. I developed a recipe for American kitchens, tested it out on some Australians and distributed it to our volunteers, who baked at home and brought the finished cookies to the different parties. I tried to make the directions very thorough.

    The results we got were wildly inconsistent. As you might imagine, there were differences in size and shape and brownness of the cookies. There were differences based on ingredients: steel-cut oats vs. rolled oats vs. quick oats; U.S. golden syrup vs. British golden syrup vs. corn syrup; butter vs. margarine; etc. The pans used made a difference.

    One regular volunteer baker's cookies were so incredibly different from everyone else's that I finally went over to her house to watch her make them. Turned out she'd been throwing everything into her mixer and beating the heck out of it.

    After that, I changed the instructions. But the experience was a real lesson in how differently different cooks can make the same recipe turn out.

    Another thing that surprised me, given the relatively ordinary ingredients of this recipe, was how different they were across the country. I knew that flour varies across the U.S., even in some national brands; but some bakers weren't able to find old-fashioned oats, and even dark-brown sugar was a problem for some. I didn't even try to tell people to look for unsweetened coconut, which is standard in Australia -- I just adjusted the recipe to account for the sweetened kind.

    Here's the final version of the recipe, as distributed. I imagine that if a bunch of LTHers were to bake these, and post photos, we'd find substantial differences as well.

    A N Z A C biscuits

    ANZAC stands for Australian-New Zealand Army Corps. "Biscuit" is what Aussies call a cookie. ("Scone," pronounced "skawn," is what they call our sort of biscuit.)

    These sweet, slightly chewy cookies, which travel and keep extremely well, were sent to soldiers during World War I, and are still very popular.

    This recipe has been adapted to modern American ingredients and measurements. Golden syrup, a mild-flavored, cane-sugar syrup popular in Britain and Australia, is widely available in the Southern U.S. (though it often is a mixture of corn and cane syrup); in the North, it may be found at gourmet shops and import stores (usually the pure-cane Lyle's brand, imported from Britain). Use it if you can; otherwise corn syrup makes an adequate substitute. If you can't find flaked coconut, shredded coconut can be chopped finer in a food processor or blender.

    1 cup old-fashioned rolled oats*
    1 cup all-purpose flour
    1 cup flaked coconut (not shredded)
    1 cup firmly packed dark brown sugar (or half brown and half granulated)
    2 tablespoons golden syrup or dark corn syrup
    1/4 pound butter (1 stick)
    1 teaspoon baking soda
    2 tablespoons boiling water

    Preheat the oven to 325 degrees. Grease several cookie sheets. (If you like, line the cookie sheets with foil, dull side up, and grease that; this makes doing multiple batches a bit faster, since you can lift off the foil with the cookies on it and reuse the baking sheet without waiting for the cookies to cool.)

    Combine the oatmeal, flour, coconut and sugar in a large bowl. Mix well, rubbing out brown sugar lumps with your fingers. Do not use an electric mixer.

    In the microwave, melt the butter and syrup together in a medium bowl, about 2 minutes on high. (Or use a medium saucepan over low heat on the stove.) In a small bowl, dissolve the soda in the boiling water and stir the mixture into the syrup. Add the syrup mixture to the dry ingredients.

    Mix well with a wooden spoon. Form well-rounded teaspoonfuls into small balls and place on the prepared cookie sheets. The dough should be very moist and slightly sticky. If it doesn't stick together well when you try to roll balls, add a bit more water. The cookies will spread a good deal -- leave plenty of space. A dozen cookies per baking sheet is about right.

    Bake, two cookie sheets at a time, until the cookies are flattened and deep golden brown, about 12 to 15 minutes. Let the cookies cool on the baking sheets for a few minutes until they firm up, then transfer with a spatula to wire racks to cool completely.

    Store in an airtight container with waxed paper between each layer of cookies. They'll keep at least a week at room temperature, and they freeze very well for longer storage.

    Makes about 4 dozen small cookies. (The recipe may be mixed in double or triple batches, but bake only two sheets-full at a time, unless you have a convection oven.)

    * Note: Use of quick oats will make a thinner, crisper, lacier cookie -- very tasty, but not, we are told, authentic. These will spread even more than the others.

    Baking notes

    I prefer the air-cushioned style of baking sheet for more even baking. If you don't have this kind, stacking two sheets atop each other and/or lining with foil will also prevent burned bottoms. Depending on your oven, you may also want to encourage more even baking by swapping around the cookie sheets midway through baking.

    Measure ingredients carefully. Spoon flour and oats lightly into a dry measuring cup and level off with a knife. Use a spatula to scrape the golden syrup from the measuring spoon.

    More water may be needed, depending on the dryness of your flour, etc.
  • Post #14 - January 25th, 2006, 9:29 am
    Post #14 - January 25th, 2006, 9:29 am Post #14 - January 25th, 2006, 9:29 am
    HI,

    LAZ your experience on the Austalian-New Zealand Army Corp. cookies fully supports my thoughts on freely giving out recipes. While they have the basic outline, how they approach it via ingredients and techniques will make it all theirs and I retain the standard.

    It is also the reason why recreating my Grandmother's recipes after her death was such a challenge. I generally knew what was in them, but replicating her approach was the challenge and it took a few years with my Dad the chief critic.

    Thanks for such a detailed and relevent contribution to this discussion.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast

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