JeffB wrote:Don't count me among those who think that Vienna can't make a good Polish. The smells and cleanliness of Vienna's Damen Ave. factory make me think they can do a good job with whatever recipe they choose to develop. I do prefer a natural casing, cut Polish. Don't really care if Vienna, a city company with local employees, makes it. Might be a plus.

I'm with you, Jeff. By far my favorite Polish is a Vienna product and is served at Wolfie's on Peterson.

chicagostyledog wrote:Superdawg was serving Vienna natural casings

Superdawg doesn't serve a polish today -- it serves the unique "Whoopskidog." On an onion roll.

Superdawg Drive-In
773/763-0660
www.superdawg.com
6363 N. Milwaukee Ave., Chicago

extramsg wrote:Hey Cathy, I thought you said hot dogs were the LEAST controversial.

Live and learn!

Regards,

Great stuff, folks - always glad to learn more about sausages.

One suggestion - perhaps good nomenclature might be "Ballpark Polish" and "Maxwell Street Polish." Because when I was reading this a little light bulb went on as to why I always find the Polish at the ballpark a disappointing alternative to a good Kosher dog, or a Jim's Polish.

Since Kielbasa has been thrown into the mix, I have a question - is a Polish ever smoked? I know some Kielbasa are, and wonder if any of the Polish mentioned are, though I cannot remember any specific instances where I had a smoked polish sandwich. Seems to me there is a pretty wide range in the coarseness/fineness (??) of the grind, though, and that the best Polish is still a much more chunky sausage then any hot dog. Not sure if I subscribe to the argument that a good Polish must be a section cut from a larger sausage, though. There are benefits to cooking and eating a completely encased sausage in that it retains a lot of the juices and more flavor.

Lest the Italian Sausage afficionados savage me on that statement, I will confess that I am not a great fan of grilled Italian Sausage - often seems dry and not anywhere near as flavorful as a good hot dog or polish.

Personally, I also am always delighted to see good Knackwurst with its garlic bite, though it is difficult to fit in snadwiches, but I digress.

Back to Italian beef:

It is usually dry roasted, seasoned beef from a pretty low grade of beef. Most of the seasoning in the beef actually comes from the roasting process, IMO. It is not necessarily round of beef - any number of cuts can do it. But it does need to be seasoned and slow roasted. And the quality of the beef is surprisingly irrelevant to the quality of the finished sandwich - in fact a lot of better places use very low grades.

It is sliced quite thin (there is a little variation in this, but thinner is usually better - thicker cuts end up being more a simple Roast Beef sandwich), almost minced at some places, like Al's, and then briefly dipped in gravy prior to being assembled into a sandwich. The main risk is that the beef spends too long in the gravy and comes out stringy and tough - so less is more.

The sandwich is served on a mediocre, farily soft Italian roll (crisp french bread, or toasting the roll are significant improvements, but quite non-traditional), with a small ladle of juice. An acceptable alternative is to dip the roll, which adds more flavor from the gravy, but at the price of a soggy disintegrating roll, if not eaten quickly. Much of the flavor comes from the gravy added directly to the sandwich, though the beef should be pleasantly flavorful on its own from its dipping. I suspect some places also season the beef lightly after slicing, though no one have ever told me they do that.

The best gravy is a beef juice, seasoned lightly with a blend of Italian herbs, this being a major point of differentiation between providers. Usually there is some salt and garlic added to the gravy to enhance the flavor. Typical flaws are gravy that is too greasy, or almost suet-like (which usually indicates the use of good ingredients, real beef juices and fat, but a flawed process), or gravy that is mostly cheap, canned beef broth with all that implies. Cheap garlic powder and its off flavor is another common flaw. Surprisingly, I have rarely encountered gravy with unbalanced seasoning, such as too much salt or pepper.

The last important ingredient, for me anyway, is giardinera. A good, spicy blend of hot peppers and some other vegies, often celery, maybe carrots, etc. The peppers and celery can be a little chunky, with other vegetables being less prominent, and chopped more finely. It is served in a base of oil, and/or vinegar, with some other seasoning.

Interestingly, but not surprisingly, like sausage one can discern the influence of different ethnic groups on "Italian Beef". On one side, we have the purely Italian style - oregano, garlic, oil and beef being the dominant flavors. On the other there are some strong eastern european influences on gravy and/or seasoning at places like Chickies, which includes some ground peppers in the beef and gravy imparting a tangier taste, and the paprika included in Max's giardinera.

Then there are the beefy styles, usually with a thicker cut to the beef and simpler seasoning to highlight the beef flavor (Mr Beef and the Patio are examples of this), and the outliers like Al's with its fennel-seasoned gravy and unique taste.

The other option is the additon of sweet peppers to a sandwich. Ideally they should be fairly fresh roasted sweet peppers with a touch of oil and salt. The reality is that this ideal is almost never achieved, and most places either offer steamed-and-held mushy, flavorless at best or bitter peppers, or canned horrors that I would not feed to a dog. So I tend to avoid them, though I admit in principle that they could be a wonderful counterpoint particularly to the more Italian style of sandwich. But I also like the heat of a good giardinera, which can make a mediocre sandwich very good.

Guess that is my IB overview, based on a couple of years of "quasi-scientific" (hevay on the quasi) tastings. I look forward to suggestions on refining and completing this.

dicksond wrote:One suggestion - perhaps good nomenclature might be "Ballpark Polish" and "Maxwell Street Polish." Because when I was reading this a little light bulb went on as to why I always find the Polish at the ballpark a disappointing alternative to a good Kosher dog, or a Jim's Polish.

This does not work for me at all. Equating a ballpark polish to a good hot dog stand polish is like comparing a Chicago hot dog to an Oscar Meyer. Maybe there should be three distinctions: 1) Hot dog stand polish, Maxwell Street polish and ballpark polish.

dicksond wrote:Since Kielbasa has been thrown into the mix, I have a question - is a Polish ever smoked? I know some Kielbasa are, and wonder if any of the Polish mentioned are, though I cannot remember any specific instances where I had a smoked polish sandwich.

I thought a Maxwell Street Polish was a smoked sausage. At least the Maxwell Street Polishes I get from Bobak's are. Most of the Polish sausages I am familiar with are smoked. An unsmoked Polish sausage is grayish white--you can find fresh unsmoked ones in many Polish delis across the city.