Scientific? They don't really say...

gleam wrote:From my bank's email newsletter this week:

Which is faster -- writing checks or paying electronically with a debit card or credit card? A recent in-store research study by Visa® USA and National Market Measures found that the average signature-based debit card and credit card transactions are nearly three times faster than the average check transaction. This was surprising news to almost half of the check-writers, who believe writing a check is faster.

The time to process a payment using a signature-based debit card was 26.1 seconds, while credit transactions averaged 30.2 seconds, both significantly less than the 75.2 seconds it took to process a check payment.

This thread tastes like burning.

People are yelling at each other for stealing seconds from their precious lives.

Bob S. wrote:This thread tastes like burning.

People are yelling at each other for stealing seconds from their precious lives.

Bob, we're trying to keep things civil here, and except for a few outbursts, we have.

"Stealing seconds" seems like a small thing, but when you add up the seconds squandered listening to telemarketers prattle (before you cut them off), reading spam emails (before you delete them) and, yes, waiting in lines, it adds up. No one I know says there are too many hours in a day, and I'd like to use all those wasted seconds doing something useful, like eating.

Speaking of studies, it would not surprise me if, psychologically speaking, the "perceived time" spent waiting in line is vastly longer than the actual time. People's perceptions of time are clearly at variance: some may feel it takes 5 seconds to write a check, others may say it takes over 14 times that long.

Hammond

PS. I also believe lives ARE precious.

Well, what is the internet for if not to waste hours bitching about wasting 11.2 seconds?

The fact is, as a freelancer who does most of his personal business (e.g. shopping) during the daytime, the better to be up till midnight writing, the fact that the Jewels of the world are filled with slow-moving elderly folks who think nothing of spending ten minutes fishing in their purses for a whalebone pen etc. to write their check upon foolscap so that it may be run by street urchin to the nearest branch of Lloyd's, there to be redeemed in gold by the merchant-- all that archaism in action is a benefit, not a problem. I whip my cart through the half-empty Jewel like it's an Italian sportscar, hurling items into my cart while other shoppers are still adjusting their bifocals and warming up the vacuum tubes to calculate whether the 32 oz. or the 64 oz. is a penny cheaper per oz. True, if I select a checkout line poorly, I may spend minutes behind one tortoise-like customer, but the fact is, even the most glacial solo individual will almost certainly take up less time than five Type A yuppies in the express lane on Saturday afternoon; there is a fixed time involved for each customer no matter how hyperkinetic they may be.

So go ahead and write your checks. It's still better than having to shop on Saturday at noon. But I too will be surprised if paper checks still exist in another decade.

gleam wrote:

gleam wrote:From my bank's email newsletter this week:

Which is faster -- writing checks or paying electronically with a debit card or credit card? A recent in-store research study by Visa® USA and National Market Measures found that the average signature-based debit card and credit card transactions are nearly three times faster than the average check transaction. This was surprising news to almost half of the check-writers, who believe writing a check is faster.

The time to process a payment using a signature-based debit card was 26.1 seconds, while credit transactions averaged 30.2 seconds, both significantly less than the 75.2 seconds it took to process a check payment.

Those numbers seem to bear out my real-world experience this week while acting as a retailer.

If it weren't for slow checkout lines, I would have to subscribe to People and the National Enquirer. Can't be having that.

Stores will stop accepting checks one of these days because of the cost of handling the paper. Of course, if Visa has its way, they would eliminate cash, too. But that would cost business.

It is more a generational thing than anything else - for now, eliminating checks would cost stores, and banks, business. But in a few years people will be more accepting of the newer technologies and checks will fade away.

Having said that, the real b***h, Hamon, is about having to wait in line, and the complaint about checkwriters is only an easily identifiable proximate cause. If it was not them, it would be the lady, or fellow, who has 14 questions, or the fact that only one register is open and the person in front of you is buying 500 items, or... It is like being stuck in a traffic jam and getting outraged because the person in front of you is leaving too much space and people keep cutting in front. Sure, it is infuriating, but it is the traffic jam that is the problem, not that one driver. If you were in front of the driver the difference in your arrival time would be virtually nothing, but you would not have this nice target for your frustration.

dicksond wrote:Having said that, the real b***h, Hamon, is about having to wait in line, and the complaint about checkwriters is only an easily identifiable proximate cause. If it was not them, it would be the lady, or fellow, who has 14 questions, or the fact that only one register is open and the person in front of you is buying 500 items, or... It is like being stuck in a traffic jam and getting outraged because the person in front of you is leaving too much space and people keep cutting in front. Sure, it is infuriating, but it is the traffic jam that is the problem, not that one driver. If you were in front of the driver the difference in your arrival time would be virtually nothing, but you would not have this nice target for your frustration.

Funny thing, I was just at Walgreen's about an hour ago (where this extended rant had its genesis -- at least in my mind), and I was all ready to ask the checkout lady what she preferred -- cash, check, or card -- get her perspective, you know, and I was sure so she would say card, but then the person right in front of me seemed to be taking an inordinate amount of time swiping her card, hemming/hawing, dithering, pushing buttons, taking some kind of notes -- in fact, she took so long that the cashier looked at me and rolled her eyes as though to say, "Credit cards!"

So who knows. The frustration with check writers seems to have been shared by many, though your psychological assessment may be accurate -- I'll discuss it with my team of shrinks.

Hammond, the real b***h

Ah, but then it becomes a matter of poor user interface design. As I often say to clients for that sort of thing, by definition, all user errors on YOUR technology are YOUR fault. (Which is why the iPod has no way for you to delete songs, without going back to the computer which, it is assumed, you have minimal competency on.)

For instance, the credit card machines at Jewel are set up like this:

[BUTTON]

CREDIT
[BUTTON]

DEBIT
[BUTTON]

etc.

Yes, that's right, the label, which is adjacent to the lower button, refers to the upper one. How many times a day do you suppose little old ladies get that wrong and have to start over?

New gripe: Cashier asks "Did you find everything you were looking for?". It wouldn't occur to me to tell the truth: "Actually, no. I couldn't find any Chef Boy-R-Dee lobster ravioli so I walked all of the aisles looking for someone to help me, but only found the Pepsi and Wonderbread guys stocking their shelves and the guy in the produce section spraying down the veges so that you can charge me for the weight of the water. So I decided to stand in line for 10 minutes and wait for just this moment with a dozen people behind me to ask you, the cashier, to help me find all the items I couldn't find. Here is my list, I hope you can read my hand-writing. I'll be waiting in the car"

They are asking this question in all of the local stores. Is it that way where you are also? This must be part of the supermarkets' highly developed ploy to keep us in the store as long as possible, especially keeping us in the checkout area with all of it's high-margin, impulse-buy candies, sodas, and highly-educational reading materials. Also, they have probably found from their studies that people like me who lie and say we found everything we were looking for, delude ourselves into rating the shopping experience as more productive than it actually was.

I raise this gripe in this thread because this week, a world-class a** in front of me and several others in the EXPRESS lane actually responded with the truth!!!!!!!! She couldn't find some laundry soap in the Super Jumbo size so she was forced to buy the Giant Family size and did the cashier know when the Super Jumbo size would be back in stock. The whole checkout line ground to a halt for several minutes. Turns out, they did have the desired size on the shelf.

I blame the supermarket as much as I blame the inconsiderate a**. Stop asking this question and make sure there are people other than the cashiers available to help shoppers if you really care about them finding everything. Whole Foods locally is great about that. But their cashiers still ask: "Did you find everything?".

I'm still trying to find the Chef Boy-R-Dee lobster ravioli.

Bill/SFNM

Mike G wrote:Ah, but then it becomes a matter of poor user interface design. As I often say to clients for that sort of thing, by definition, all user errors on YOUR technology are YOUR fault.

I feel like a befuddled absent-minded professor when confronted by a credit card scanner at a shop I don't regularly visit. These credit card scanners have many vendors with no industry standard like the qwerty-keyboard for the interface. Swiping the card is just step one, but you have to carefully read the keys to understand how to properly reply next.

My local Target takes your credit card into their machine and holds it until you have responded and signed off as instructed, which I don't especially like. It reminds me of the first time I used an ATM: I was out of town and needed several hundred dollars. When the money came out, I did what I always do: I counted it. Apparently I took too long to retrieve my ATM card and the machine ate it. Fortunately it was a minor issue to get it back since I performed this stupid human trick on a weekday during business hours. I quickly learned you collect your cash, card and receipt, then count your money.

Regards,

Oh, Bill, if you only knew. Our local Jewel has now adopted the policy that the poor zit faced teen running the register now has to ask you if you'd like to purchase this week's Mega Super Value item which is now prominently displayed on a paper sign next to the register.

If I didn't feel so bad for the poor zit faced teen who obviously hates asking the question, I'd respond, "If I wanted it, I would have bought it."

My mom still refuses to use the debit card stating that she believes it is the tool that the anti-christ will use to round up all the fundamentalist Southern Presbyterians one day so that he can torture and kill them. But, she's a well documented kook so I ignore her opinion on the subject.

Your Pal "Will The Debit Card Loyalist- Even If Using It Means I'm Going To Hell"

Maybe I just don't run into the checkwriters much because I go to the major supermarket chains (two Jewels and a Domenicks within an easy walk, so I wing it) a few times a year for dry goods and staples. So I couldn't tell you the last time I've seen someone write a check. But since we're good-naturedly venting, what IS it about the DOOFUSES who pay for pocket-change IMPULSE items like a BOTTLE of WATER with a CARD? THOSE are the ASSES stealing seconds from MY life...

Hm. I do feel better. Until the next time I'm stuck behind one.

YourPalWill wrote:My mom still refuses to use the debit card stating that she believes it is the tool that the anti-christ will use to round up all the fundamentalist Southern Presbyterians one day so that he can torture and kill them. But, she's a well documented kook so I ignore her opinion on the subject.

Yes, my mom similarly will not use an ATM card, because when you use one they come up from behind and rob you. And you know, "when you use the internet they can get your stuff."

Study reveals how impatient we are...especially when it comes to waiting in line.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/05/29/impatient.nation.ap/index.html

Ah, but then it becomes a matter of poor user interface design. As I often say to clients for that sort of thing, by definition, all user errors on YOUR technology are YOUR fault.

It is against my better judgment to bring this thread back to the top, but I cannot resist.

Mike, as someone who has designed software and systems over the years, I wish to say that we do strive to create idiot-proof designs but, as the old saw goes, never underestimate the ingenuity of an idiot.

Yes, I find myself befuddled by card scanners at times (do I sign here or there, do I give you my card or not, can I scan before you finish ringing up or must I wait, which buttons must I push when, etc?) and make more mistakes than I like to admit, but I also give the designers credit for making these things as easy as they have.

In fact, to free associate, I generally find it amazing that auto designers have been able to create these one ton metal and plastic boxes that can hurtle along at a mile a minute or more in close proximity to each other, operated by any idiot while talking on the phone, adjusting the radio and lighting a cigarette usually without doing serious damage to him/herself or anyone else. This is amazing s**t, and a great credit to the people who design these things.

Designers do wonderful and amazing things: we touch and use them every day.

Inserted in a packet of checks I just found the following insert from the check printer:

Americans aren't as PLASTIC as you might think. Last year, checks accounted for 73% of all non-cash transactions. America's favorite way to pay!

Proud members of the Check Payment Systems Association (CPSA):

The Check Payment Systems Association is an association of businesses, organizations and associations committed to advancing, promoting and protecting the long-term value of growth of the check payment system. Its members include check printers, paper and ink manufacturers, payment services companies and providers of hardware and software products used in check handling.

Cathy2 wrote:Proud members of the Check Payment Systems Association (CPSA):

The Check Payment Systems Association is an association of businesses, organizations and associations committed to advancing, promoting and protecting the long-term value of growth of the check payment system. Its members include check printers, paper and ink manufacturers, payment services companies and providers of hardware and software products used in check handling.

They share office space with the BWMA (Buggy Whip Manufacturers Association).

Hi,

Buggy Whip was something that went through my mind when I read it, too.

Regards,

Dominick's seems to have instituted a new policy where, when they hand you back your receipt, they say "Thanks, Mr./Mrs WhateverYourLastNameIs". Now, I don't mind this little personal touch, if they could EVER PRONOUNCE MY LAST NAME CORRECTLY. I've had several checkout people ask me how to pronounce it and then, when I tell them (and, really, it's not that difficult) have them say, "OH, That's a weird name!" Gee, thanks. Glad to have provided you with a moment of amusement in your otherwise mundane life, Dominick's checkout person.

I'm literally reduced to applauding and saying "Whee! Good for you!" when the checkout person manages to pronounce my name correctly and doesn't insult me in the process.

bananasandwiches wrote:Dominick's seems to have instituted a new policy where, when they hand you back your receipt, they say "Thanks, Mr./Mrs WhateverYourLastNameIs". Now, I don't mind this little personal touch, if they could EVER PRONOUNCE MY LAST NAME CORRECTLY. I've had several checkout people ask me how to pronounce it and then, when I tell them (and, really, it's not that difficult) have them say, "OH, That's a weird name!" Gee, thanks. Glad to have provided you with a moment of amusement in your otherwise mundane life, Dominick's checkout person.

I'm literally reduced to applauding and saying "Whee! Good for you!" when the checkout person manages to pronounce my name correctly and doesn't insult me in the process.

They typically mangle my last name too, without asking for guidance...

Antonius

bananasandwiches wrote:
"Thanks, Mr./Mrs WhateverYourLastNameIs".

Don't know if it is company policy, but I got the same thing yesterday from Radiohack, except it wasn't my last name, but my first name and it wasn't even the first name on my credit card (William), but my nickname (Bill). Now I was hacking the insides of a TRS-80 before this kid was born, but regardless of age, first names and nicknames should be not used in this setting, dontcha think?

William (you can call me "Bill")/SFNM

My Dominck's, at least, has been doing this for a long time, and since this thread was initiated by people complaining about having their time wasted, I find this an especially annoying corporately-imposed time-waster, as the checker holds your receipt for a few moments, searching for your name, trying to figure out how to pronounce it, etc. I also don't like being reminded that the store knows who I am and is tracking every little purchase that I make. That irks me along with Dominick's policy of having the checker (and often the bagger as well) ask you if you'd like help out with your groceries. (I discovered they are required to do this if you've purchased more than three items, regardless of how capable you appear of handling your own groceries.) They often ask me when I first start unloading, then the checker usually asks me again when I've paid, and then the bagger will ask me, too, forcing me to say, three times, slightly less cheerily with each response, "No, thank you." I commend their desire to be of assistance to those who need it, though perhaps a prominantly placed sign would accomplish the same thing and they could avoid the needling.

ToniG wrote: That irks me along with Dominick's policy of having the checker (and often the bagger as well) ask you if you'd like help out with your groceries. (I discovered they are required to do this if you've purchased more than three items, regardless of how capable you appear of handling your own groceries.) They often ask me when I first start unloading, then the checker usually asks me again when I've paid, and then the bagger will ask me, too, forcing me to say, three times, slightly less cheerily with each response, "No, thank you." I commend their desire to be of assistance to those who need it, though perhaps a prominantly placed sign would accomplish the same thing and they could avoid the needling.

Initially, I interpreted this request as a subtle indication that perhaps I appeared more feeble than I might have thought. Now I've heard about this practice from enough people that I'm sure the baggers ask everyone.

In addition to corporate policy, however, I believe this proffered courtesy may be a way of generating tips for those who carry out the bags (split with cashiers?). I don't know about etiquette for tipping bag-carriers, as I've never agreed to accept the help, but this could be a reason for the zealous offers of assistance.

Hammond

I bet they're not even allowed to accept tips.

The people who do those jobs are constantly under the gun. At Jewel, they have to try to sell you some stupid special item every time you check out. They probably repeat that kind of stuff because they will be disciplined if god forbid they forget it. A checker I was fond of at my local Jewel said she was told not to chat with customers while checking them out. She was a talkative but she was very fast and efficient. I hate the way those corporations take already soul-sucking jobs and make them worse.

HI,

Gee, I never was irritated when Sunset Foods in Highland Park, whisks my cart away from me as I approach check out. Not only do they take me to the lowest density check out lane, they take the goods out of my cart. Once I have paid, then they offer me a number corresponding to my cart to load my car when I drive up. They have done this since I was a kid helping out Mom and Dad until my present early middle-aged status. I was never insulted, because it was the old fashioned commodity called SERVICE!

Now, Dominick's is trying to instill some service-culture back into their stores. Only to find their personnel getting their heads lobbed off by the same people who scream at anyone who holds a door for them. "What do you think I am, weak!" I hear there are legions of people who won't hold doors for anyone because of these insults. Why not help them relearn that service oriented technique?

Jewel clerks offer me to help out as well. I always joke the help isn't so much needed at the store, but at home. Next time I might just let them help me.

If Marshall Fields had not lost that special touch, it might have had a more loyal shopping public who hadn't drifted away.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:If Marshall Fields had not lost that special touch, it might have had a more loyal shopping public who hadn't drifted away.

Regards,

I realize we're drifting off of topic and I apologize for this, but is this true? The changeover to Macy's was actually fed by a loss of sales that was out of line with the rest of the market at the time?

I only ask this because I've been bearing a large grudge against Macy's after the changeover of the State Street Store. (I wouldn't exist without it. My grandparents met there before WWII, my grandmother waited through the war to marry my grandfather when he returned home.) News of the name change upset me greatly, to put it lightly. I refuse to shop there or any other location bearing the Macy's name. If I'm being unreasonable, if the changeover was caused simply by the greater public abandoning a company, I'll feel sheepish.

Even before the actual namechange though, I was having issues locating certain skincare and hygiene products that I'd always bought at the Clinique counter. As soon as the buyout went through, it seemed like certain vendors began treating them as a red-headed stepchild. (Not to mention Dolce & Gabana and Versace completely pulling out of the stores.)

I truly hope the buyout was a case of greed, and not shoppers abandoning a Chicago institution.

I've heard a few commentators suggest that the merchandise and position of the store had drifted downward in the last few years, and that Federated is likely to upgrade the actual merchandise and operation compared to the last owner. Though I'm sure everone's anecdotal experience is different in some way, given the vastness of the stores, especially State Street which to my mind remains one of the best surviving examples of the old-school giant department store on earth. (Does it still have a stamp-collecting department? That floored me once.)

Pete wrote:I realize we're drifting off of topic and I apologize for this, but is this true? The changeover to Macy's was actually fed by a loss of sales that was out of line with the rest of the market at the time?

No. This was something Macy's (Federated Stores) did nationwide. There were many local "treasures" that lost their identity on the same day. It's all about branding. Federated thinks that by having a unified image nationwide, they can better leverage their brand and be able to do national advertising instead of having to produce separate ads for every market/store that they are in. We are not alone.

FWIW, and many some of the many Boston expats can contribute their own perspective here, but many of us from that fine city despise Marshall Field's and in some cases (cough) are all but dancing on its grave.

As the Depression era was winding down a chain of appliance merchants, Lechmere, opened up just outside Boston in Cambridge, growing substantially across the region and thriving well into the '60s and '70s, eventually reaching the point in the '80s where a substantial mall was designed around the original store as an anchor. Huge selection, great prices, fantastic customer service, it was about as popular as a store could get.

MF, and I choose to use the initials, decided it needed a Boston-area presence and acquired Lechmere. Took no time at all before selection started dropping, prices started rising, service started vanishing. Worse yet, they never changed the name, choosing to drag it through the mud. Not long after, MF shuttered the chain.

So no tears shed here for MF. (Although, to give this some excuse of being on topic, I did buy some nice cookware there.)