It is hard to argue with staying in Paris the whole time, that would be my first choice. I also would recommend the Rodin museum. Also check out the status of l'Orangerie-while the museum has been moved, I believe the "water lilies" in the basement cannot be moved and are still there. The USA embassy on Place de la Concorde has some amazing American art work just as decoration. The area from Les Invalides to the Tour Eiffel is good for roaming.

While it does not seem to be an issue now, but rental cars are available with automatics now; you could get around any 25 problem using a purchase/repurchase plan by companies like Sodexho (sp?) which often ends up cheaper than renting.

If you feel the need to leave the city, the usual day trips are to Versailles(doesn't everyone need to see the Hall of Mirrors) and Chartres (as you approach it you can sense the awe that pilgrimages foster). I would not recommend the Loire without spending a least a couple days.

If you go to Brittany to see the graves (rewatch Saving Private Ryan), I'd recommend seeing the Bayeux tapestries, stopping in Caen for some tripe a la mode de Caen, visiting the copper stores in Villedieu(prices are not that much better than here, but they will ship stuff). Spend the night on the "island" at Mont St. Michel. Like so much of touristy Europe, Mont St Michel is packed during the day. But when the tour buses leave (the exodus of people, buses, and cars is almost hilarious) the narrow streets become manageable, the Mere Poulard omelettes(one of the most overrated foods in all of Europe) almost good, and the cathedral even more spectacular. If there is any event like "Sound & Light", make sure to go. Being inside the church, particularly the cloisters, at night, looking out over the surrounding water and meadows is awesome.

MLS wrote:
If you feel the need to leave the city, the usual day trips are to Versailles(doesn't everyone need to see the Hall of Mirrors) and Chartres (as you approach it you can sense the awe that pilgrimages foster). I would not recommend the Loire without spending a least a couple days.

OOH!

If you go to Chartres, there are nice cafes in the square near the cathedral, and there's supposed to be an Englishman who does wonderful tours (by appointment). Our timing wasn't right to do it, but check out this article
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... A964948260

There's an article from the New York Times about the newly reopened Orangerie here:

http://travel2.nytimes.com/2006/05/16/a ... 6oran.html

By the way, we are taking our very first trip to France ever (Normandy and Paris) this summer and have been taking notes from all the good advice being offered on this board. Thanks.

Another possible day trip from Paris is Monet's house Giverny, home of the famous waterlilies.

Personally, if I had nine days in Paris, I would definitely take a day trip to Versailles. It is one of those things that is worth seeing. And on a nice day, the grounds are lovely.

Giverny is an excellent tip and perfect to stop at on the way to or from the American cemeteries, Bayeux, Villedieu, Mont St. Michel, Caen, etc.

Often one takes a pass a challenging posts that seem erroneous. Sometimes the poster doesn't read the previous post carefully, doesn't understand the meaning of a word (ex. vernacular), or always insists on the last word; for whatever reason one chooses not to reply (until now, I suppose). But sometimes you just can't let a post slide.

Ms.Paris said:
I'd take a pass on Marseille...it really is, for the most part, a hole-and can be a little rough (read:unsafe) if you don't know what areas to avoid/don't speak the language, etc.

Would you ever say that about New York, New Orleans (pre-Katrina), Chicago, Detroit, Naples, Rome, ......Peoria? I found gleam's reference to Chicago interesting. There are suburbanites who proudly proclaim that they never visit Chicago; there are northsiders who revel in never going south of Congress if it is not within 150 yards of LSD. They have never been to nor have any desire to visit say Pilsen or even Heart of Chicago. I would not recommend Marseille to them, but if you can handle Pilsen (or Logan Square, Rogers Park, etc), I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Marseille.
First there is the physical beauty-this is Provence afterall, same great light. The road from the Vieux Port around the Corniche President John Fitzgerald Kennedy continuing as Corniche Georges Pomdidou to Point Rouge is one of the great roads in an urban setting. The Mediteranean off to the right, the hills and calanques to the left; luxury apartments above the Corniche, spectacular villas, clubs, and restaurants below. And at the end beaches and marinas.
The Vieux Port is among the best people watching spots in the world. Sip a pastis. Watch the fishmongers next to the tourists taking boats to Chateau d'If next to the flower stalls next to the candy stands selling candy covered nuts and fruit jellies. Watch the sailors from ports around the world mingle with the yachtsmen off their fabulous sailboats (remember the end of The French Connection). Watch the models and shoppers coming down the Canebiere mingling with the businessmen and "friends" or mates. Marvel at the number of different ethnicities you see in one of the most diverse cities in the world. Gaze up at Notre Dame de la Garde (not a particularly pretty church up close, but dramatic for its scale and location) as in a Pagnol (or French Connection) film.
The people are among the most approachable in France, in many ways like their language, sounding almost Italian. "Knowing the language" is no more important here than any other place else in France.
Marseille is fascinating for its history too having been established by Greeks and Phonicians. St. Victor is a 4th century abbey. The war memorial on the corniche highlights American contributions during WWII.
The food is magnificent combining the best of Provence with all the best of north Africa (couscous and merguez became popular with the Algerian immigration of the fifties and continues still). Bouillabaise is a religion here, but do not follow the recommendation given to tourists to eat at FonFon, truely overrated. Instead stop at any of the small restaurants between Marseille and Cassis on or near the water for great food, great view, and for me, great aroma-Provence always has a hot, pine scented aroma.
BUT make no mistake about it-Marseille can be a very unsafe city. It is a very large port city, and like all large port cities, one cannot just wander about. There are areas festooned with forests of dish TV dishes-do not go there-rumor is the gendarmes don't either-all those sets are on algezera (sp?). But the bad areas are easy to avoid if you plan accordingly, and the best of the city can be enjoyed safely. Part of Marseille's crime reputation is old though-at one time virtually all the heroin in the world was processed here-but that is gone now.
While Marseille does not seem appropriate for gleam for this trip, and there are so many places to recommend in France, Marseille is most definitely not a hole.

MLS wrote:Often one takes a pass a challenging posts that seem erroneous... But sometimes you just can't let a post slide.

MLS,

Though my direct knowledge of Marseille is considerably less than yours, I had a reaction to the characterisation of that city as a 'hole' similar to the one you had. I decided not to respond and argue against that manner of dismissal in part because it seemed like it would take the thread off in an unproductive direction but I was very happy to see that you did respond and then only after the more relevant discussion of the o.p.'s topic had been largely played out.

Though things seem to be changing a little bit in recent years, Naples -- a city especially dear to my heart -- has similarly been thought of by many as a 'hole' -- noisy, crowded, dirty, crime-ridden, etc. etc. Another such European city (albeit a rather smaller one) of which I'm very fond is Liège. And, of course, Marseille and Naples and Liège can be within certain limits accurately described with those adjectives. But they are also lively, vibrant, friendly, creative, beautiful, etc. etc. They are, moreover, three cities with fascinating histories, very well-develloped local cultures and unquestionably outstanding cuisines. Those are my kind of urban holes!

Of course, as with all things, different strokes for different folks, and I can certainly understand how some folks would be less drawn to the cities mentioned above than to the places that are more widely embraced as tourist destinations. And from that stand-point, I think Ms. Paris' warning was both well intended and worthwhile. But I just feel that the dismissal of the place with the characterisation of being a 'hole' seemed excessively negative and -- for people of certain tastes -- quite inaccurate.

Antonius

Thanks for reminding me how a casually flippant remark can come off harsher than it was meant. In this case, I simply overstated my broader point - that I would not recommend Marseille for someone's first trip to France, and only trip outside of Paris.

Ms.Paris wrote:Thanks for reminding me how a casually flippant remark can come off harsher than it was meant. In this case, I simply overstated my broader point - that I would not recommend Marseille for someone's first trip to France, and only trip outside of Paris.

Ms. P.,

I think that's how I read it -- more as a casual remark but one that came out as overstatement -- but I (as well as MLS) felt the casual overstatement really needed to be balanced out or qualified. And as I said above, I did think you were just honestly and quite legitimately offering a word of caution: reality is that most people prefer places like Florence to Naples, Bruges to Liège, Monaco to Marseille, etc., and that's just how things are.

amicalement,
Antonious

An update:

At this point we've decided to spend all 9 nights in Paris, and do a few day trips to places that are, say, under 2.5 hours by train. We're still nailing those down. We may also end up renting two places for one night, and sleeping in town X instead of paris. We'll see.

We're also almost certainly going to rent an apartment while we're there. It seems most of the nice places are in le Marais, and a few in Saint-Germain de Pres.

I want to thank everyone for the incredibly detailed help and suggestions. It has made the decisions easier, and it's gotten us really excited about the trip. Too bad it's still two months away.

There's no shortage of recommendations on this thread, but I'm compelled to add one more: Le Conquet, a tiny fishing village on the coast of Brittany. I was there for five days at the end of August for a wedding. It. Is. Beautiful. Quaint, very local, and gorgeous beaches. Excellent food, naturally, and all the perks of a small village: the baker, fromagier and butcher all lined up in a row on the town's main cobblestone street.

We stayed in a hotel that overlooked the sea wall. There are ruins from wars past, and homes that still have the port-holes where, one local aunt informed me, the inhabitants poured boiling oil out of to keep the invaders out.

We took the train from Paris to Brest, and I think Le Conquet is about a half hour or so away.

Well, since this is coming up I wanted to thank you all again for your suggestions.

We're renting a really lovely looking apartment in the 2nd, near the Sentier and Les Halles metro stops. Right now we still haven't really decided where to head on day trips, and probably won't until we've been in Paris for a couple days.

I am a little worried about how much stuff is going to be closed in August. It's such an unfortunate time to be there. Here's hoping we'll still be able to find some good, non-touristy places to dine.

Although there is one place near our apartment that specializes in American food. They serve tex-mex, hot dogs, bagels (translated into french as pains New Yorkais), california wines and Dr Pepper. And there's a Chicago pizza place. I bet it'll be open!

A lot of places will be closed but I love Paris in August. It feels like your own private city. And since you'll have your own kitchen, you must take advantage of the summer bounty that most Parisians miss - you must visit Joel Thiebault - fourth generation vegetable grower/seller - in fact his family's been known for their produce since the Middle Ages. His gardens are just a few kilometers from the Eiffel Tower. He's at market in the 16th on Ave President Wilson on Wednesdays and Saturdays and Rue Gros Tuesdays and Fridays. He also supplies some of the best restaurants in Paris - including his friend Chef Pascal Barbot at the Michelin 2-star L'Astrance. He has a beautiful book out in French and English - in French it's "Legumes de Joel" - in English it's "Vegetables by 40 Great French Chefs". If someone could capture the fragrance of his herbs, I'd wear it as a perfume.
http://www.joelthiebault.fr/

Also, if you go out to Versailles, you must visit Le Potager du Roi - The Kitchen Garden of the King - the original gardens that supplied the Sun King himself, Louis XIV.
http://www.movable-feast.com/2005/08/le ... _du_r.html

Bon voyage.

This reminded me that I haven't posted my write up from my trip in early June. Unfortunately, it is still incomplete but I'll post what I've got...

Boulangeries & Patisseries

Eric Kayser
5, rue Basse des Carmes, 5è

Pierre Gosselin
125, rue Saint-Honoré, 1er
Highly recommended by Peter Reinhart in the Bread Baker’s Apprentice. My mom is still talking about their “baguette tradition” two months later. Their brioche was also to die for.

Stohrer
51, rue Montorgueuil, 2è

Gerard Mulot
76, rue de Seine, 6è

Poilane
8, rue du Cherche Midi, 6è
Probably the most famous bread maker in Paris. Go here for their “pain de sigle.”

Minamoto Kitchoan
17, rue de la Madeleine, 8è
Have you ever wondered what a 15E pastry costs? At Minamoto Kotchoan you can find out. For a mindblowing (and very, very expensive) experience that you cannot find in Chicago, head to this Japanese patisserie/tea room at the Place de la Madeleine.

La Bague de Kenza
106 rue St.Maur, 11è
Apparently Maghrebi pastries are all the rage in Paris. I’ve always loved them, and am thrilled to be able to find them all over the city. This shop was singled out by the NY Times a couple of months ago for its North African pastries & tearoom.

Epiceries

L’Epicerie
51, rue Saint-Louis-en-L’Isle
DO NOT MISS this adorable little epicerie on the Ile Saint-Louis. Dozens of flavored salts (I picked up the “cinnamon rose petal” sel de guerande, recommended for lamb tagines, though I have found good uses for it to complement desserts as well), flavored sugars, vinegars, and more. I spent way, way, too much time here heartbroken that I couldn’t buy one of everything.

La Grande Epicerie (Bon Marché)
My favorite of the large upscale gourmet stores (preferred over Fauchon, Hediard, and Galleries Lafayette). Fabulous prepared foods if you’re eating in, excellent patisseries (my favorite was a dense “cake” of dark chocolate/pistachio mousse/raspberry gelee,

Markets

Marché Biologique: Organic market – high prices but oh-my-god what I wouldn’t do to have weekly access to fresh organic cream, milk, butter and yogurt (sheep, goat and cows milk) here in Chicago…

Marché Aligre: One of my favorite markets in the City – supposed to be one of the places where you can find the best “deals” on produce, etc. Also tons of great little shops (two good wine merchants, in particular, one that specializes in the wines of the South of France (Languedoc/Roussillon mostly) that you can’t find in Chicago.

Chocolatiers

Pierre Marcolini
89, rue du Seine, 6è
If you were wondering what would happen if you brought the austerity and formality of Swiss banks to a chocolate store, you can stop wondering: it’s Pierre Marcolini. The chocolatier where staff wears Armani suits, the tone is hushed, the lights are dim, and the chocolate is fabulous. I do admit to feeling somewhat intimidated by the atmosphere - if you're not in couture, you're underdressed. But the staff was friendly, and the chocolates were good.

Josephine Vannier
4, rue du Pas de la Mule
My favorite chocolatier in Paris, her chocolates are works of art – often literally imitating famous paintings. They almost…almost…look too good to eat. But eating them is such a pleasure.

Cooking Supplies

E. Dehillerin
18 et 20, rue Coquillière, 1er
Famous cooking supply store with few things you can’t find stateside. Still worth a trip.

Librairie Gourmande
5, rue Dante, 5è
Bookstore entirely devoted to cookbooks/food writing. Some selections in English, but mostly French. If you speak French, and have a scale to cook with at home, you could spend hours and hours here.


Other

Hédiard: overpriced but fun to browse gourmet foods at the Place de la Madeleine

Fauchon: See Hédiard.

We just returned from two weeks of food and history-induced bliss in Normandy and several days in Paris and will just note that Gerard Mulot, mentioned above, is in fact closed for most of August. I was thrilled to discover that it was still open when we arrived in Paris, since it was around the corner, literally, from our hotel, and it in fact closed for vacation the evening we left. I might have set up a cot there had they let me, as the pasteries and savory items were absolutely out of this world (though my husband prefered the Kayser bread, over Mulot's and Poilane's.) As an added bonus, the staff there were incredibly friendly, despite word I'd read elsewhere suggesting that that might not be the case -- they even brought out chairs and tables for us to enjoy the pastries and coffee in the shop when the standing room was taken. But alas, it's closed till the end of August. But there's still plenty of lovely food to be had, for sure.